Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Nursing home deaths are not the fault of anybody.

Where do the most fragile elderly people go, who can't take care of themselves anymore? Nursing homes.

Who is most susceptible from dying due to COVID-19? The most fragile elderly people who can't take care of themselves anymore.

What did you think would happen to them?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Schneed10;1252031]Nursing home deaths are not the fault of anybody.

Where do the most fragile elderly people go, who can't take care of themselves anymore? Nursing homes.

Who is most susceptible from dying due to COVID-19? The most fragile elderly people who can't take care of themselves anymore.

What did you think would happen to them?[/quote]

As someone who visited lots of elderly relatives in days gone by they vary quite a bit on cleanliness. Agreed they are housing people at extreme high risk for dying of corona-virus. If that didn't get them something else would. About 50% of nursing home residents don't last more than 6 months in one.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

The need to blame every single COVID related death on a Democrat or Republican is pretty tiresome. This is a once in a generation type thing that is picking off the already vulnerable. It sucks. But unfortunately that's what happens in nature. Lion's don't go for the fastiest/healthiest gazelle. We don't need to blame it on someone. Need to find the best balance of protecting the most vulnerable and keeping the economy going. There is no perfect answer.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

It's not about blaming a party, I guess it just points to a bigger issue that our nursing homes are often severely understaffed and we simply haven't done enough to protect the elderly through all of this. I don't accept the answer that well they're old and susceptible, what else can we do.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252036]It's not about blaming a party, I guess it just points to a bigger issue that our nursing homes are often severely understaffed and we simply haven't done enough to protect the elderly through all of this. I don't accept the answer that well they're old and susceptible, what else can we do.[/quote]

I'm not saying sweep mistakes under the rug. But the fact is there were going to be a lot of elderly deaths from this no matter what was done with the resources that were available. And trying to blame every death on a particular person or persons is frustrating. I have no idea about senior care but I imagine that the system deficiencies have been going on for decades across all parties. Admit there are problems and work on fixing them.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252036]It's not about blaming a party, I guess it just points to a bigger issue that our nursing homes are often severely understaffed and we simply haven't done enough to protect the elderly through all of this. I don't accept the answer that well they're old and susceptible, what else can we do.[/quote]

I get where you're coming from - the carnage is so high with the nursing homes that your gut says there had to be a way of dealing with this. But every tactic I can think of that would have improved matters would have been a much broader, nationwide approach. We should have been prepared to test more quickly, we should have performed contact tracing much more rigorously nationwide and isolated people like Korea does, we should have been much more aggressive in enacting social distancing and stay at home orders sooner.

All of those things would have worked well in nursing homes. But they are also what the entire country needed.

The nursing home residents are bearing the brunt of the administration's overall failures to act with foresight. But containing a pandemic isn't something you can do within a building. You need to stop it from getting inside a building like a nursing home, and that requires much more aggressive action on a much broader scale than anything targeting nursing homes specifically.

In many ways you and I are probably saying the same thing. I'm just turning it to focus on the pandemic as a whole. Fewer elderly folks would have died if we had learned from Asia and implemented the playbook they put into place following SARS. But we didn't and we're learning the hard way.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

so, I have stayed away from all this because I know the general tone in the thread. I will put this here, and if anyone wants to have a decent discussion I am all for it. The point stated up front is while the NY/NJ/Mass/Connecticut numbers are horrendous, the US as a whole did far better in mitigating the Coronavirus outbreak than European countries.

Northern European Countries with Deaths per million > 278 (US Average)
Country, [B]Deaths per Million[/B], Tests per Million
Belgium,[B]784[/B],"60,157"
Andorra,[B]660[/B],"48,543"
Spain,[B]593[/B],"64,977"
Italy,[B]529[/B],"50,294"
UK,[B]513[/B],"39,542"
France,[B]433[/B],"21,218"
Sweden,[B]366[/B],"17,588"
Netherlands,[B]332[/B],"17,358"
Ireland,[B]314[/B],"52,484"
Isle of Man,[B]282[/B],"49,035"

I will note Germany's exceptionally low number of 97 deaths per million, and credit German's strict "ordnung" or ocd to government laws as a part of their success.

Compare those major countries that are way over our average to our states
New York,[B]1456[/B],"73,018"
New Jersey,[B]1167[/B],"59,053"
Connecticut,[B]956[/B],"47,852"
Massachusetts,[B]841[/B],"66,859"
District Of Columbia,[B]543[/B],"51,755"
Louisiana,[B]536[/B],"57,041"
Michigan,[B]490[/B],"41,205"
Rhode Island,[B]471[/B],"106,243"
Pennsylvania,[B]352[/B],"26,881"
Illinois,[B]330[/B],"45,924"
Maryland,[B]329[/B],"32,242"
Delaware,[B]298[/B],"41,966"

Those 12 are mostly in the New York Corridor of the Pandemic, the outliers are Michigan, Illinois and Louisana. Coincidentally (or not) of those 12 states, 9 were definite losses for Trump before all this started.
If you took out NY,NJ,Connecticut and Massachusetts out of the total US count, I would imagine the 278 number would drop to close to 200, but I didn't do the math so not sure.

The other 38 states plus territories are well below the European countries

Indiana,[B]260[/B],"26,328"
Colorado,[B]211[/B],"21,937"
Mississippi,[B]175[/B],"38,011"
Georgia,[B]152[/B],"33,075"
Ohio,[B]139[/B],"22,625"
Washington,[B]133[/B],"37,887"
Minnesota,[B]130[/B],"26,705"
New Mexico,[B]126[/B],"63,550"
New Hampshire,[B]126[/B],"39,277"
Virginia,[B]118[/B],"24,700"
Nevada,[B]114[/B],"31,152"
Iowa,[B]111[/B],"31,771"
Alabama,[B]100[/B],"31,887"
Missouri,[B]98[/B],"25,588"
Arizona,[B]93[/B],"27,890"
Florida,[B]92[/B],"30,407"
Vermont,[B]87[/B],"37,188"
California,[B]83[/B],"31,465"
Wisconsin,[B]78[/B],"26,143"
South Carolina,[B]75[/B],"24,822"
Kentucky,[B]75[/B],"29,027"
Oklahoma,[B]73[/B],"31,204"
Kansas,[B]67[/B],"21,142"
North Carolina,[B]65[/B],"23,736"
Nebraska,[B]64[/B],"34,971"
North Dakota,[B]56[/B],"72,463"
Maine,[B]52[/B],"24,576"
South Dakota,[B]50[/B],"32,282"
Texas,[B]47[/B],"23,909"
Tennessee,[B]44[/B],"47,631"
Idaho,[B]41[/B],"20,521"
West Virginia,[B]37[/B],"42,123"
Arkansas,[B]32[/B],"28,227"
Oregon,[B]32[/B],"22,371"
Utah,[B]25[/B],"53,261"
Montana,[B]15[/B],"25,155"
Wyoming,[B]14[/B],"28,326"
Alaska,[B]14[/B],"47,367"
Hawaii,[B]12[/B],"29,514"

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1252021]Lol could u imagine a travel restriction where we deny us citizens returning to the country? Could you imagine what the press would say? It’s like we don’t understand anything...yes the travel ban stopped people from coming in and naturally spread it. Biden and Pelosi both made statements criticizing the travel ban calling it racist. Lol, so they would have simply allowed travelers in spreading it around. We are too woke to stop the spread...

In the end...it was already here. Was it a solid wall? No[/quote]

LOL, chico ,you're sad.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Here is the site of the updated numbers in Maryland.

[url]https://coronavirus.maryland.gov/[/url]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Cred - good morning

I think there are definitely epicenters for the us. It appears that travel from China to the US goes to about 5-6 airports. NYC, predictably, was an epicenter. I am surprised Los Angeles and San Fran have not been hit harder.

I think what’s good for NYC isn’t what’s needed for Nebraska or something like that. Some of the mid states have had outbreaks at meat plants that became their mini epicenter.

——//////
The big picture: At least 430,000 people have flown to the U.S. from China since Dec. 31, when China first informed the World Health Organization about cases of novel coronavirus in Wuhan, the Times reports.

Most passengers arrived in January at airports in San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Seattle, Newark, Chicago and Detroit.
"Thousands of them flew directly from Wuhan," the original epicenter of the COVID-19 outbreak, per the NYT.
——/-/

Trump travel restriction of China — yes other countries had them already in place but we were the first western nation to do it. Trump gets credit for that ... although I’m 100% convinced that he did it to spite China (And Iran) and not as some preventative measure. If the outbreak came from somewhere like Saudi Arabia, which he considers a friend.

I give trump credit for the travel restriction. I think he got to the right decision through wrong thinking ... but the ultimate decision, no matter how he got there, was the best decision for the US.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1252041]so, I have stayed away from all this because I know the general tone in the thread. I will put this here, and if anyone wants to have a decent discussion I am all for it. The point stated up front is while the NY/NJ/Mass/Connecticut numbers are horrendous, the US as a whole did far better in mitigating the Coronavirus outbreak than European countries.

Northern European Countries with Deaths per million > 278 (US Average)
Country, [B]Deaths per Million[/B], Tests per Million
Belgium,[B]784[/B],"60,157"
Andorra,[B]660[/B],"48,543"
Spain,[B]593[/B],"64,977"
Italy,[B]529[/B],"50,294"
UK,[B]513[/B],"39,542"
France,[B]433[/B],"21,218"
Sweden,[B]366[/B],"17,588"
Netherlands,[B]332[/B],"17,358"
Ireland,[B]314[/B],"52,484"
Isle of Man,[B]282[/B],"49,035"

I will note Germany's exceptionally low number of 97 deaths per million, and credit German's strict "ordnung" or ocd to government laws as a part of their success.

Compare those major countries that are way over our average to our states
New York,[B]1456[/B],"73,018"
New Jersey,[B]1167[/B],"59,053"
Connecticut,[B]956[/B],"47,852"
Massachusetts,[B]841[/B],"66,859"
District Of Columbia,[B]543[/B],"51,755"
Louisiana,[B]536[/B],"57,041"
Michigan,[B]490[/B],"41,205"
Rhode Island,[B]471[/B],"106,243"
Pennsylvania,[B]352[/B],"26,881"
Illinois,[B]330[/B],"45,924"
Maryland,[B]329[/B],"32,242"
Delaware,[B]298[/B],"41,966"

Those 12 are mostly in the New York Corridor of the Pandemic, the outliers are Michigan, Illinois and Louisana. Coincidentally (or not) of those 12 states, 9 were definite losses for Trump before all this started.
If you took out NY,NJ,Connecticut and Massachusetts out of the total US count, I would imagine the 278 number would drop to close to 200, but I didn't do the math so not sure.

The other 38 states plus territories are well below the European countries

Indiana,[B]260[/B],"26,328"
Colorado,[B]211[/B],"21,937"
Mississippi,[B]175[/B],"38,011"
Georgia,[B]152[/B],"33,075"
Ohio,[B]139[/B],"22,625"
Washington,[B]133[/B],"37,887"
Minnesota,[B]130[/B],"26,705"
New Mexico,[B]126[/B],"63,550"
New Hampshire,[B]126[/B],"39,277"
Virginia,[B]118[/B],"24,700"
Nevada,[B]114[/B],"31,152"
Iowa,[B]111[/B],"31,771"
Alabama,[B]100[/B],"31,887"
Missouri,[B]98[/B],"25,588"
Arizona,[B]93[/B],"27,890"
Florida,[B]92[/B],"30,407"
Vermont,[B]87[/B],"37,188"
California,[B]83[/B],"31,465"
Wisconsin,[B]78[/B],"26,143"
South Carolina,[B]75[/B],"24,822"
Kentucky,[B]75[/B],"29,027"
Oklahoma,[B]73[/B],"31,204"
Kansas,[B]67[/B],"21,142"
North Carolina,[B]65[/B],"23,736"
Nebraska,[B]64[/B],"34,971"
North Dakota,[B]56[/B],"72,463"
Maine,[B]52[/B],"24,576"
South Dakota,[B]50[/B],"32,282"
Texas,[B]47[/B],"23,909"
Tennessee,[B]44[/B],"47,631"
Idaho,[B]41[/B],"20,521"
West Virginia,[B]37[/B],"42,123"
Arkansas,[B]32[/B],"28,227"
Oregon,[B]32[/B],"22,371"
Utah,[B]25[/B],"53,261"
Montana,[B]15[/B],"25,155"
Wyoming,[B]14[/B],"28,326"
Alaska,[B]14[/B],"47,367"
Hawaii,[B]12[/B],"29,514"[/quote]

How much of this is due to the policy of states and the federal governments? I think a lot of it has to do with circumstances of the environment. Europe has over twice the population in roughly the same square area (3.7 million square miles for US vs 3.9 for Europe). When you look at some of the states that have similar population densities to some of the European countries we have higher deaths per million people. There is also the geography making Europe more susceptible. I do think European countries should have been more proactive and recognized their susceptibility sooner. Trump was smart to close the border earlier. I think a more comprehensive federal response instead of a state by state response would have been better but what do I know I am just a socialist.

On a side my wife is a counselor in a local school district. She had a student counselor getting his Master's at Johns Hopkins this year. He is from China and got back to the US from China winter break just before the Trump limited travel. Since he has been back his advising professor at JHU died and now that he has completed his Master's program he is stuck here but his student visa is expiring. Feel bad for him.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

No big surprise here

[URL="https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half-twitter-accounts-discussing-‘reopening-america’-may-be-bots"]Nearly Half Of The Twitter Accounts Discussing ‘Reopening America’ May Be Bots[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252151]No big surprise here

[URL="https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half-twitter-accounts-discussing-‘reopening-america’-may-be-bots"]Nearly Half Of The Twitter Accounts Discussing ‘Reopening America’ May Be Bots[/URL][/quote]

People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

I received my covid stimulus money. Dont think it was the right amount but close enough.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252155]People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.[/quote]

I honestly don't think the divide is that great. Polls show that most people are concerned about states re-opening too quickly. Out in public most people are wearing masks and observing social distancing just fine.

What you're talking about with destroying the economy to get Trump out or keeping the country shut down for good are discussions not even worth having IMO because they just lack common sense and rationality. People with those views are on the fringe.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252167]I honestly don't think the divide is that great. Polls show that most people are concerned about states re-opening too quickly. Out in public most people are wearing masks and observing social distancing just fine.

What you're talking about with destroying the economy to get Trump out or keeping the country shut down for good are discussions not even worth having IMO because they just lack common sense and rationality. People with those views are on the fringe.[/quote]

I think Trump has been out for a long time, but I do see a big divide in policy between the typical Republicans and Democrats of re-opening the country for business. The businesses in my area run the gamut on their compliance of mandates from the governor. The mom & pop market close to me has deli workers without any protective equipment and no one at the check out counter with it on either. Nothing but a couple 6 foot marks on the floor by the checkout line. Seems like the small business aren't complying much, with the larger ones at high levels of compliance. It doesn't seem like there is any enforcement around here.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252155]People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.[/quote]

Not being argumentative here but I know no one like that . I'm the sole republican in my household and none of the kids their spouse's or friends feel that way nor do any Democratic friends I have.They know their money and savings are all tied up in the economy a great economy is good for all ,it was great under Obama when he brought it back after 08 and while I despise trump and thankfully many republicans are jumping ship on him it's not about him, the economy will come back,the market was due a correction anyway.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1252172]Not being argumentative here but I know no one like that . I'm the sole republican in my household and none of the kids their spouse's or friends feel that way nor do any Democratic friends I have.They know their money and savings are all tied up in the economy a great economy is good for all ,it was great under Obama when he brought it back after 08 and while I despise trump and thankfully many republicans are jumping ship on him it's not about him, [B]the economy will come back[/B],the market was due a correction anyway.[/quote]

It is going to take a long,long time. The change in people's future spending habits is going to put a lot of businesses out of business. We already have had a lot of restaurants permanently close, many of those that survived so far aren't doing well. I went in a Subway and got a sandwich yesterday, even though the parking lot was jam packed with people who were probably grocery shopping I was the only one in the Subway and the whole time I exited and ate the sandwich in my vehicle no one else went in.

The local McDonald's which is a stone's throw from I-95 is usually jam packed on Friday-Saturday-Sunday, no matter what time of day. When I drove past there at 3pm today on the way to the bank there were two cars in the drive thru line.

I suppose I have to take the good with the bad as it seems on average the Corona-virus adds 5-10 unpaid hours to my business week. Most of that is using Fedex because the post office is no longer reliable. Also customer service from vendors has gotten real bad with most of them. On the good side I do not have to wait in long lines for takeout food. Unfortunately that is not sustainable, as no one in line for food equals out of business soon.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252176]It is going to take a long,long time. The change in people's future spending habits is going to put a lot of businesses out of business. We already have had a lot of restaurants permanently close, many of those that survived so far aren't doing well. I went in a Subway and got a sandwich yesterday, even though the parking lot was jam packed with people who were probably grocery shopping I was the only one in the Subway and the whole time I exited and ate the sandwich in my vehicle no one else went in.

The local McDonald's which is a stone's throw from I-95 is usually jam packed on Friday-Saturday-Sunday, no matter what time of day. When I drove past there at 3pm today on the way to the bank there were two cars in the drive thru line.

I suppose I have to take the good with the bad as it seems on average the Corona-virus adds 5-10 unpaid hours to my business week. Most of that is using Fedex because the post office is no longer reliable. Also customer service from vendors has gotten real bad with most of them. On the good side I do not have to wait in long lines for takeout food. Unfortunately that is not sustainable, as no one in line for food equals out of business soon.[/quote]


I would think that probably 60 - 75% of "Mom and Pop's" / small businesses are out of business permanently by the time this "ends". What will be left is large big box stores for shopping, corporate owned restaurants, think large chains

But it is also important to remember that many things that are now gone for good were already on their way to going out well before the pandemic. Think places like sears, AMC theaters, etc.... It's easy for a business to blame the virus now for going OB when even before the lockdowns, they may have survived two or three more months tops....

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252155]People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. [B]Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.[/B][/quote]

Yes, like me. Death to America. Communism rules. Suck it Reagan.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252177]I would think that probably 60 - 75% of "Mom and Pop's" / small businesses are out of business permanently by the time this "ends". [B]What will be left is large big box stores for shopping, corporate owned restaurants, think large chains
[/B]
But it is also important to remember that many things that are now gone for good were already on their way to going out well before the pandemic. Think places like sears, AMC theaters, etc.... It's easy for a business to blame the virus now for going OB when even before the lockdowns, they may have survived two or three more months tops....[/quote]

Have you been paying attention to the news? All the big chains want bailouts because they spent their "rainy day emergency fund" money on stock buybacks and corporate bonuses. They're broke too! Which means America's broke! Yayyyyy! Finally, I can watch this useless turd of a country get flushed down the shitter.

I'm actually changing my stance now, I'm pro global-warming, excessive greed, nationalism and every-man-for-himself-ism. Hopefully I'm still alive to witness this planet imploding thanks to humanity's worst enemy, itself.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1252183]Have you been paying attention to the news? All the big chains want bailouts because they spent their "rainy day emergency fund" money on stock buybacks and corporate bonuses. They're broke too! Which means America's broke! Yayyyyy! [B]Finally, I can watch this useless turd of a country get flushed down the shitter.[/B]

I'm actually changing my stance now, I'm pro global-warming, excessive greed, nationalism and every-man-for-himself-ism. Hopefully I'm still alive to witness this planet imploding thanks to humanity's worst enemy, itself.[/quote]

Are you a poster boy for the hate the USA liberal? You are always free to leave with that attitude.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252177][B]I would think that probably 60 - 75% of "Mom and Pop's" / small businesses are out of business permanently by the time this "ends". [/B] What will be left is large big box stores for shopping, corporate owned restaurants, think large chains

But it is also important to remember that many things that are now gone for good were already on their way to going out well before the pandemic. Think places like sears, AMC theaters, etc.... It's easy for a business to blame the virus now for going OB when even before the lockdowns, they may have survived two or three more months tops....[/quote]

The mom & pop grocery stores are actually getting more business in my area, the local hardware, and small auto parts store are doing good also. Probably mostly people wanting to avoid the crowds and chaos of the large stores. It seems to be the eateries are the ones hit hard, even though they are offering take out and some with patio dining, they are flat out empty.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252185]The mom & pop grocery stores are actually getting more business in my area, the local hardware, and small auto parts store are doing good also. Probably mostly people wanting to avoid the crowds and chaos of the large stores. It seems to be the eateries are the ones hit hard, even though they are offering take out and some with patio dining, they are flat out empty.[/quote]

I will agree with you here. Sears yes and many other big name s that were too late to compete with Amazon and Walmart but the AMC theaters were booming all around me so I'm not sure about them but yes it seems many are going to the small mom and Pop stores from what I see.

I'm one that just doesn't like Malls ,as far as I am concerned all the Malls can shut down for good!

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1252186]I will agree with you here. Sears yes and many other big name s that were too late to compete with Amazon and Walmart but the AMC theaters were booming all around me so I'm not sure about them but yes it seems many are going to the small mom and Pop stores from what I see.

I'm one that just doesn't like Malls ,as far as I am concerned all the Malls can shut down for good![/quote]

I seriously cannot even remember the last time I went in a mall, could have been damn near 25 years ago.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252216]I seriously cannot even remember the last time I went in a mall, could have been damn near 25 years ago.[/quote]

I go once a year to get Candles from the Yankee Candle shop ,other than that nope!

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

No surprise here,............trump lied.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-obama-pandemic-budget-cuts-085217775.html[/url]


St. Louis Post-Dispatch Editorial Exposes Trump's 'Colossal' Lie About Obama



President Donald Trump has repeatedly blamed former President Barack Obama for his own administration’s mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic.

The last administration left us nothing,” Trump said last month.

But the St. Louis Post-Dispatch found that Trump’s own budget documents show the opposite ― exposing what it called “a lie of colossal Trumpian proportions.”

The newspaper’s editorial board said the Trump administration told Congress that the Obama administration left it with everything needed for a pandemic ― and sought big budget cuts from the programs as a result.

Trump’s 2020 budget asked Congress to cut the pandemic preparedness budget by $102.9 million, part of $595.5 million in requested cuts to public health preparedness and response outlay.

“Obama left office with an unblemished record of building up the nation’s pandemic preparedness,” the newspaper said. “Trump systematically sought to dismantle it.”

Trump has since blamed his predecessor for lack of personal protective equipment and testing supplies, saying “our cupboards were bare. We had very little in our stockpile.”

But the newspaper said a chart provided by the Trump administration with the budget shows that by 2016 ― Obama’s final year in office ― the nation’s public health emergency preparedness was at least 98% on every key measure.

“That’s by the Trump administration’s own assessment,” the Post-Dispatch said. “If the cupboard was bare, it’s because Trump swept it clean.”

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

You're wasting your breath G1, Trump has been unfairly targeted by the left since day 1 and if you're not a Trump supporter, you're an anti-American POS. He's the real victim in all of this, not all of the citizens who died. Fact: 100% of people are guaranteed to die eventually, it was inevitable.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1252235]You're wasting your breath G1, Trump has been unfairly targeted by the left since day 1 and if you're not a Trump supporter, you're an anti-American POS. He's the real victim in all of this, not all of the citizens who died. Fact: 100% of people are guaranteed to die eventually, it was inevitable.[/quote]

When are you moving out of the country that you made this comment about?

[B]Finally, I can watch this useless turd of a country get flushed down the shitter.[/B]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

How nuts is it that we have to fact check the President

[URL="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-coronavirus-twitter-white-house-press-briefing-today-us-cases-biden-a9534201.html"]President threatens to close social media platforms after accusing Twitter of ‘stifling free speech’ for correcting his post[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252238]How nuts is it that we have to fact check the President

[URL="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-coronavirus-twitter-white-house-press-briefing-today-us-cases-biden-a9534201.html"]President threatens to close social media platforms after accusing Twitter of ‘stifling free speech’ for correcting his post[/URL][/quote]

Hard to have a "Dictatorship" if everyone is questioning you and lives.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252238]How nuts is it that we have to fact check the President

[URL="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-coronavirus-twitter-white-house-press-briefing-today-us-cases-biden-a9534201.html"]President threatens to close social media platforms after accusing Twitter of ‘stifling free speech’ for correcting his post[/URL][/quote]




Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech............. Benjamin Franklin .

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252238]How nuts is it that we have to fact check the President

[URL="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-coronavirus-twitter-white-house-press-briefing-today-us-cases-biden-a9534201.html"]President threatens to close social media platforms after accusing Twitter of ‘stifling free speech’ for correcting his post[/URL][/quote]

He erodes the standards of the Office of the President to which we've grown accustomed. He doesn't live up to some very basic minimum standards and too many Americans are too poorly versed in civics to recognize it.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Well, my take on this, not being a Trump supporter, is that even lying is still "free speech", so if any company, Facebook, Twitter, or whomever is stifling that speech, that is probably not a good thing.

I also don't think that a private company should be the one who is deciding if information is true or false. I think its censorship either way you look at it, and that itself, IMO, is not good.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252262]Well, my take on this, not being a Trump supporter, is that even lying is still "free speech", so if any company, Facebook, Twitter, or whomever is stifling that speech, that is probably not a good thing.

I also don't think that[B] a private company [/B]should be the one who is deciding if information is true or false. I think its censorship either way you look at it, and that itself, IMO, is not good.[/quote]

The key part of your sentence is in bold above.

This is no different than a Christian bakery refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding.

When you sign up to use their platform, you agree to use it by their rules. If it was a government office putting limits on Trump's free speech, then we'd have an issue.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

^ yup

And it's important to note that fact checking is not censoring. None of this posts have been deleted or altered.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1252267]The key part of your sentence is in bold above.

This is no different than a Christian bakery refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding.

When you sign up to use their platform, you agree to use it by their rules. If it was a government office putting limits on Trump's free speech, then we'd have an issue.[/quote]

Its a bit for complicated imo.

A bakery or a hotel is "open to the public" and under interstate commerce clause and civil rights laws, a store "open to the general public" cannot discriminate or deny service based on race, religion, gender etc. A bakery open to the public is clearly subject to federal laws and regulations regarding constitutional rights. (whether "sexual identity" is a protected class is up for debate and how that parlays with religious freedom is the difficult issue with the bakery cases)

Twitter - what the hell is it? Its obviously not a brick and mortar motel in Florida. Perhaps it could be regulated if it is considered a publicly necessary utility like railroads were back in the day or like energy or water etc.

Just a few years ago, the FCC labeled the "internet" as a public utility and thus subject to federal regulations. Without reading up on it, i think they really wanted to regulate the wires/towers etc i.e. the ability to provide internet.

I just dont see how "twitter" can be considered a public utility. Posting your thoughts arent vital and necessary to society. There are many other platforms to post your thoughts so its not like this is a monopoly as compared to Cox/verizon owning all the fiber cables in a certain part of the country.

----------------------

Twitter can do what ever it wants and thinks is in the best interest of its company and shareholders, imo.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

First, Trump actions against social media I’m against.

I believe twitter should either fact check everyone who qualifies followers-wise equally or not at all. As far as Facebook then, we are all happy with that as well?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1252262]Well, my take on this, not being a Trump supporter, is that even lying is still "free speech", so if any company, Facebook, Twitter, or whomever is stifling that speech, that is probably not a good thing.

I also don't think that a private company should be the one who is deciding if information is true or false. I think its censorship either way you look at it, and that itself, IMO, is not good.[/quote]

It's not a free speech violation unless the government is the one suppressing the speech. Twitter cannot suppress anybody's right to free speech, but they can tell you what they're willing to accept on their platform.

If you don't like their terms, it's not a violation of your freedoms because of this simple fact: you are entirely free to start your own social media platform and say whatever you want.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Facebook, Twitter, IG etc. are all based in the bay area/silicon valley. The liberal echo chamber capital of the country. So if you're a conservative and you choose to use those apps, you're doing that in full acceptance of that knowledge. So there is no point in complaining about it. I haven't read what exactly is in Trumps executive order but in general more government is a negative to me, so I'm most likely against it.

If conservatives feel they're getting censored or what not, then stop using it. If millions of people stop using them that's how you effect change how it should be done. $$$ controls everything.

In general, I hope people of all parties aren't using social media as the basis for their views anyways.