Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;571917]I'm sorry that it takes time to formulate my own thoughts on a subject so broad as healthcare reform. ... And the amazing thing is I didn't put any time in into it.[/quote]

The interesting thing is how much time you put into pointing out rhetorical flaws, without spending time to think about the actual issue.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;571908]What an abominable argument. No it does not imply "all forms of UHC promote general welfare." Did you not read my hyperbole reference (i.e a UHC program that promotes eugenics)? UHC is a well defined, information on what it's suppose to be and do is readily available.[/quote]Well, then I'm not seeing your loophole. If you are affirming that UHC is not debatable under a "promote general welfare statute", but you are denying that "UHC" necessarily implies that the general welfare is improved, you're making a direct contradiction.

The "readily-available information" on UHC does not necessary promote general welfare. Undoubtably, that would be the intent of pretty much any healthcare reform, but it's aims and goals are far less important than it's ways and means.

Unless I've completely missed your point, you are advocating health care reform that is both 1) universal, and 2) improves the general welfare. These things may very well be contradictory, under most standard definitions of the terms.

Re: the new health care?
 

Isn't it funny that now because they are having such a hrd time selling their Health Care Reform they have now decided to call it Health Insurance Reform. Now my area is getting hit by comercials making the Heath Insurance Industry the bad guys and they are attacking them. I guess its easier to try and sell health care reform that way instead of presenting the facts of the plan and letting it stand on its own.

Saden: Obama's plan is not UHC its a goverment plan to insure the uninsured. His ulitmate goal is UHC but he will lie and say that's not what he wants at all even though there are tapes of him saying that.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;573129]Isn't it funny that now because they are having such a hrd time selling their Health Care Reform they have now decided to call it Health Insurance Reform. Now my area is getting hit by comercials making the Heath Insurance Industry the bad guys and they are attacking them. I guess its easier to try and sell health care reform that way instead of presenting the facts of the plan and letting it stand on its own.

Saden: Obama's plan is not UHC its a goverment plan to insure the uninsured. His ulitmate goal is UHC but [B]he will lie[/B] and say that's not what he wants at all even though there are tapes of him saying that.[/quote]
any proof?

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;573141]any proof?[/quote]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbXrSK_VfME]YouTube - Barack Obama: I Want Universal Health Care, Not Private Insurance (2007) [Naked Emperor News][/ame]

Re: the new health care?
 

Saden stated "The topic of the selfish nature of man was brought up to highlight that without government mandate some among us would not be interested in paying for UHC. Joe doesn't need to defend himself, and he isn't. He is merely expressing his view on the nature of man."

In my case its not that I don't want to pay for health care I allready pay a good sum each month its the fact that the goverment will make it more expensive then it currently is. Once again look at the model they are basing their plan off in Mass. Prices have jumped higher then private ins. but why look at the perfect example when we have Obama telling us this will not happen. We should just take his numbers as fact because he also said the stimulas would create jobs and unemployment would stay under 8.5%.

Re: the new health care?
 

i would argue with you. but im only allowed 1 post in any political thread:) otherwise i get spanked

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;573155]Saden stated "The topic of the selfish nature of man was brought up to highlight that without government mandate some among us would not be interested in paying for UHC. Joe doesn't need to defend himself, and he isn't. He is merely expressing his view on the nature of man."

In my case its not that I don't want to pay for health care I allready pay a good sum each month its the fact that the goverment will make it more expensive then it currently is. Once again look at the model they are basing their plan off in Mass. Prices have jumped higher then private ins. but why look at the perfect example when we have Obama telling us this will not happen. We should just take his numbers as fact because [B]he also[/B] [B]said the stimulas would create jobs and unemployment would stay under 8.5%[/B].[/quote]

[B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses
may take years to recover[/COLOR][/URL][/B]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;573472][B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses[/COLOR][/URL][/B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"]
[B][COLOR=#0066cc]may take years to recover[/COLOR][/B][/URL]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time[/quote]

I'm using Obama's words not mine. He actually said it would not go over 8% so maybe he needs to read your link. If he was so dam smart he should have known that and not said anything at all, but maybe he is not that smart.I'm using Obama's words not mine. He actually said it would not go over 8% so maybe he needs to read your link. If he was so dam smart he should have known that and not said anything at all, but maybe he is not that smart. Now they are calling the people opposing his new Health Insurance Reform thugs. Great thing for a president to call the American people but this is coming from the party that stands for sit down and do as I say.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;573472][B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses[/COLOR][/URL][/B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"]
[B][COLOR=#0066cc]may take years to recover[/COLOR][/B][/URL]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time[/quote]
not sure why it posted twice.

Re: the new health care?
 

Great read here:

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html]Peggy Noonan: ‘You Are Terrifying Us’ - WSJ.com[/url]

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=GMScud;573527]Great read here:

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html"]Peggy Noonan: ‘You Are Terrifying Us’ - WSJ.com[/URL][/quote]

Thanks that was a good read. I just cannot believe how the Dems have gone so low with all the name calling of these people showing up at town hall meetings. Last time I looked they where US citizens and had the right of free speech. Maybe now free speech is only if your agree with Obama.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;573548]Thanks that was a good read. I just cannot believe how the Dems have gone so low with all the name calling of these people showing up at town hall meetings. Last time I looked they where US citizens and had the right of free speech. Maybe now free speech is only if your agree with Obama.[/quote]

Come on FD, you know that any regular citizen who actually stands up to Lord Obama and the Dems simply cannot be for real. It's got to be "well-dressed" stand-ins mobilized by the RNC. :doh:

That's why the Dems have instructed union heads to descend on these "fake" town hall meetings to straighten people out. Better not preach any "mis-information" on health care or you'll get flagged by the White House.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=GMScud;573553]Come on FD, you know that any regular citizen who actually stands up to Lord Obama and the Dems simply cannot be for real. It's got to be "well-dressed" stand-ins mobilized by the RNC. :doh:

That's why the Dems have instructed union heads to descend on these "fake" town hall meetings to straighten people out. Better not preach any "mis-information" on health care or you'll get flagged by the White House.[/quote]

It's not called health care reform any more its now called Health Insurance Reform. Now thats change.

Re: the new health care?
 

I never could have imagined that "right wing extremist" were capable of making me smile. For now this is the closest thing we have to political balance until the next set of elections in 2010. I mean I love Obama and a lot of the things he's doing but a democratic president with a democratic majority in the house and the senate scares the daylight out of me. And for the record the opposite doesn't make me sleep well at night either.

Keep up the protest crazy people :D

In the meantime Obama would probably do well to learn from his predecessor as I think a main reason people really started to turn on Bush was because he just started doing his own thing and as a result tuned out when it came to public opinion.