Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;788298]Julio Jones[/quote]

Ohhhh....... sorry. I now see you were just responding to wilsowilos' post.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I would NEVER spend the 10th pick on a WR. If Jones is the best player available at 10 then they need to get out of that pick. Personally I would be doing whatever is necessary to get in position to get the #1 QB on the skins draft board...like they should have done last year. If it's Locker then pick him at 10...if it's Gabbert then trade up. They have to get their guy and they can't wait and hope it falls to them...because with the redskins that never seems to happen.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I wouldn't trade up for any of these QBs. And if one of the top WRs is there at #10 and is our top rated player, so be it. It's not like WR isn't a need.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

They don't sound worth it to me either but if Shanny loved one of them I would do it. They can't wait around. If theres a guy in there they think is the franchise then they need to make it happen. Coming out of this draft with a potential franchise QB is the #1 priority.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I guess you're in favor of reaching for one, with this relatively weak QB class I think that would be a big mistake.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;788318]I guess you're in favor of reaching for one, with this relatively weak QB class I think that would be a big mistake.[/quote]

Amen brother.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Not necessarily...I am in favor of getting the guy they want by whatever means necessary. If Shanny & Allen think that it's a weak class then obviously I don't want them to use a high pick on one. It's literally been almost 30 years since the Redskins have had what most would consider a franchise QB and in this league more then ever you need one to win. So I am not that concerned if we come out of this draft with a WR or a LB because the best WR or LB in the league is not going to make the Redskins a Super bowl contender until they find a QB.

Also...I heard Kiper today call this QB class a strong one not a relatively weak one.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

A strong QB class??

I think there's some value later on, but the top guys are sketchy.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;788334]A strong QB class??

I think there's some value later on, but the top guys are sketchy.[/quote]

Well what he said is that QB has a chance to be good...but he didn't list it as weak and when he was thinking of strengths it was one of the 1st he mentioned.

[url=http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37357/football-guru-mel-kiper]Chat: Chat with Mel Kiper - SportsNation - ESPN[/url]

Where are the strengths and weaknesses in this draft and how does it stack up compared to previous drafts?

Mel Kiper (1:16 PM)


The weaknesses are easy: TE, ILB, S. The strong spots, I think QB has a chance to be good. FB can be good: Henry Hynoski, Pitt; Anthony Sherman, UConn; Owen Merecic, Stanford. WR is not bad. Not much in the first round. Edmund Gates from Abiliene Christian is moving up. The OG/C combo types, lots of those. The DL is clearly the strength of the draft, along with some underrated CBs.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I can't believe some of you value what Mel Kiper has to offer. When has he ever been right?

I guess its all about being bored with the off-season and you are willing to discuss any and every comment by whomever.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Well he was right last year, and percentage wise he's generally more right than other draft experts.

That said, I really doubt his final mock has us taking Jones

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

As you look around the league you see a lot of starting QB's without age on their side. Their are a lot of QB's who are over 30, whose window is closing fast, and probably won't be playing at an elite level, or playing at all, in 3-4 years.

Starting QB's over 30 include: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Matt Hasslebeck, Brett Farve, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schuab, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, David Garrard, Michael Vick, and you probably could include Ben Rothlisberger to this list from the beating he consistently takes, etc.

Then there's QB's, who we almost know for certain, that probably won't be starting at QB three years from now: Chad Henne, Vince Young, Derrick Anderson, Matt Moore/Jimmey Clausen,

All of the QB's i listed started last year as the starting QB for their team. these teams are probably gonna have a completely different QB in a few years.

The last few years there have been only about 2 decent starting QB's that come out of the draft, Last year there was only 1. The amount of young good QB's in this league are at a minimum.

My point is there are gonna be a lot of starting QB jobs to fill in the coming years, and this years class has quite a few prospects. I'm not saying there are gonna be a lot of good ones, but in three years there will probably be 5 starting QB's from this class.

whether this years class is strong at the QB position or not, there will be a lot of future NFL QB jobs open in 3-4 years. And i'm pretty sure a lot of those jobs will be occupied by the 2011 class

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=celts32;788320]Not necessarily...I am in favor of getting the guy they want by whatever means necessary. If Shanny & Allen think that it's a weak class then obviously I don't want them to use a high pick on one. It's literally been almost 30 years since the Redskins have had what most would consider a franchise QB and in this league more then ever you need one to win. So I am not that concerned if we come out of this draft with a WR or a LB because the best WR or LB in the league is not going to make the Redskins a Super bowl contender until they find a QB.

Also...I heard Kiper today call this QB class a strong one not a relatively weak one.[/quote]

I think five years from now from this class the QB's who will be good in the NFL are:
Mallett
Stanzi
McElroy

Decent QB's with one great season, but up and down other seasons:
Cam Newton

Nobodies/ out of the league in a few years:
Ponder
Locker
Gabbert
Dalton

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

If the G/C positions are deep, that'll increase the chances of improving the OL in the later rounds. Again, this team has so many holes, drafting the best player available with each selection will pay off in the long run.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Von Miller wants to be a Cowboy, so I've lost my want in drafting him !

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;788404]Von Miller wants to be a Cowboy, so I've lost my want in drafting him ![/quote]

Agreed. WTF is up with that dude.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Actually I'd love to draft Miller even more now just so he'd have to face his fav team twice a year.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Here's Matt Bowen's latest mock draft...

[url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Players-top-ten-mock-draft.html]The Player's top ten mock draft | National Football Post[/url]

Sidenote: I am really enjoying reading Matt Bowen's work on NFP and following on Twitter.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Ruhskins;788415]Here's Matt Bowen's latest mock draft...

[URL="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Players-top-ten-mock-draft.html"]The Player's top ten mock draft | National Football Post[/URL]

Sidenote: I am really enjoying reading Matt Bowen's work on NFP and following on Twitter.[/quote]

Yeah his stuff is pretty good, I really like his articles on schemes and breaking down plays.

I wouldn't hate grabbing Quinn at #10 at all.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;788346]I think five years from now from this class the QB's who will be good in the NFL are:
Mallett
Stanzi
McElroy

Decent QB's with one great season, but up and down other seasons:
Cam Newton

Nobodies/ out of the league in a few years:
Ponder
Locker
Gabbert
Dalton[/quote]

I have no idea which ones will be good...I like some personally better then others but i don't really know. My point is only that if Shanny sees a guy in this draft that HE thinks can be his franchise QB then i want them to be aggressive about getting him. Don't sit back and hope...make it happen.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Ruhskins;788415]Here's Matt Bowen's latest mock draft...

[URL="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Players-top-ten-mock-draft.html"]The Player's top ten mock draft | National Football Post[/URL]

Sidenote: I am really enjoying reading Matt Bowen's work on NFP and following on Twitter.[/quote]

No O-linemen until #19? I can't see that happening.

He has Pittsburgh taking Pouncey too. :D

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I will say this. The QB class is [B]ALWAYS [/B]weak. We need to get used to it. In fact in retrospect it's usually the guy that no one expected to be succeed that ends up being the bell of the ball.

Some perspective.

The weakest class in recent memory was 2000, where Chad Pennington was the top ranked QB. He was picked 17th overall yet when healthy was among the leagues top QB's including a season where he led the 1-15 Dolphins to 11-5.

In 2005 people also labeled the QB class as weak. The only reason Alex Smith was picked number one overall was because San Fran was desperate to do something at the QB position. Aaron Rodgers then proceeded to drop to the 24th spot. "Teams must have passed him up for a reason." Turns out the reason was that no one knew how to evaluate QB's that year except Green Bay.

Few people thought Matt Ryan was that great of a pick. His college stats were underwhelming and he was labeled as having accuracy issues. Everyone knows you build in the trenches and the Falcons were foolishly passing on Glenn Dorsey. Ryan was going to a team that gave up over 50 sacks the year before. He is now the only QB in franchise history to lead the Falcons to back to back winning seasons.

On draft day most of you thought that Joe Flacco would take years to "develop" and why not, he came from a shotgun spread attack at an FCS school. Today is among the most highly respected young QB's in the game.

Josh Freeman. What a wasted pick right? Tampa was drafting Jason Campbell 2.0. Look at this guy. Best season is 20 TD's and 8 Ints. Never led his team to anything big. Career completion percentage under 60%. Man terrible pick. "Oh but his arm is strong." Big whoop. He'll be a bust.

2004 was a strong class, but that was if you were in position to get Rivers or Manning. The Steelers got the left overs in Big Ben, who has gone on to be the most prestigious QB of the class.

2006. Well as long as you could get Young or Leinart you were able to talk about how strong the class was as you had two remarkable college QB's. One with outrageous physical talent that was able to show clutch on college football's biggest stage. And another who played in a pro style offense for a national championship team. But wait, now those two are off the board? Is the class still strong? All I see is Jay Cutler? He played at Vanderbilt, and wasn't able to do much stat wise. He has a strong arm but how many times have we've seen that mean nothing?

People please repeat it with me. [B]"THE QB CLASS IS NEVER STRONG ON DRAFT DAY."[/B] Scouts poke and prod these guys left and right and find virtually every reason why they won't succeed. The fact of the matter is we have no idea how most of them will turn out. If we had drafted most of the above guys on draft day (particularly guys like Freeman or Flacco) most of you would have had a cow.

Forget the strong class concept. We're not building a QB stable. We need one guy to throw the ball. That's it. No one is running a two or three QB offense. If we find that guy that can give us stability at the games most important position we have to take him, even if it means taking the rest of you kicking and screaming.

Next years class is always stronger then this years class when it comes speculation. It's the new Vet min. The funny thing is the guys that people are looking at next year when labeling a class are the guys we're never in position to draft (*read Andrew Luck*).

*End Rant*

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Sundberg was horrible, so here's the successor to Albright's throne:

[YT]THklo6MDTMU[/YT]

Heck, maybe he can replace Rabach too.



[url=http://www.wsucougars.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/enyeart_zach00.html]Player Bio: Zach Enyeart - WASHINGTON STATE OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE[/url]

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Who is Aldon Smith?

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;788455]Next years class is always stronger then this years class when it comes speculation. It's the new Vet min. The funny thing is the guys that people are looking at next year when labeling a class are the guys we're never in position to draft (*read Andrew Luck*).
*End Rant*[/quote]

Good rant though.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;788455]I will say this. The QB class is [B]ALWAYS [/B]weak. We need to get used to it. In fact in retrospect it's usually the guy that no one expected to be succeed that ends up being the bell of the ball.

Some perspective.

The weakest class in recent memory was 2000, where Chad Pennington was the top ranked QB. He was picked 17th overall yet when healthy was among the leagues top QB's including a season where he led the 1-15 Dolphins to 11-5.

In 2005 people also labeled the QB class as weak. The only reason Alex Smith was picked number one overall was because San Fran was desperate to do something at the QB position. Aaron Rodgers then proceeded to drop to the 24th spot. "Teams must have passed him up for a reason." Turns out the reason was that no one knew how to evaluate QB's that year except Green Bay.

Few people thought Matt Ryan was that great of a pick. His college stats were underwhelming and he was labeled as having accuracy issues. Everyone knows you build in the trenches and the Falcons were foolishly passing on Glenn Dorsey. Ryan was going to a team that gave up over 50 sacks the year before. He is now the only QB in franchise history to lead the Falcons to back to back winning seasons.

On draft day most of you thought that Joe Flacco would take years to "develop" and why not, he came from a shotgun spread attack at an FCS school. Today is among the most highly respected young QB's in the game.

Josh Freeman. What a wasted pick right? Tampa was drafting Jason Campbell 2.0. Look at this guy. Best season is 20 TD's and 8 Ints. Never led his team to anything big. Career completion percentage under 60%. Man terrible pick. "Oh but his arm is strong." Big whoop. He'll be a bust.

2004 was a strong class, but that was if you were in position to get Rivers or Manning. The Steelers got the left overs in Big Ben, who has gone on to be the most prestigious QB of the class.

2006. Well as long as you could get Young or Leinart you were able to talk about how strong the class was as you had two remarkable college QB's. One with outrageous physical talent that was able to show clutch on college football's biggest stage. And another who played in a pro style offense for a national championship team. But wait, now those two are off the board? Is the class still strong? All I see is Jay Cutler? He played at Vanderbilt, and wasn't able to do much stat wise. He has a strong arm but how many times have we've seen that mean nothing?

People please repeat it with me. [B]"THE QB CLASS IS NEVER STRONG ON DRAFT DAY."[/B] Scouts poke and prod these guys left and right and find virtually every reason why they won't succeed. The fact of the matter is we have no idea how most of them will turn out. If we had drafted most of the above guys on draft day (particularly guys like Freeman or Flacco) most of you would have had a cow.

Forget the strong class concept. We're not building a QB stable. We need one guy to throw the ball. That's it. No one is running a two or three QB offense. If we find that guy that can give us stability at the games most important position we have to take him, even if it means taking the rest of you kicking and screaming.

Next years class is always stronger then this years class when it comes speculation. It's the new Vet min. The funny thing is the guys that people are looking at next year when labeling a class are the guys we're never in position to draft (*read Andrew Luck*).

*End Rant*[/quote]The fact that I like 5 different guys in this class to *eventually* become NFL starters is more due to a high point in the cyclical QB demand cycle. But it's also the depth of the class.

Remember, last year was a "strong" QB class, but part of that strength was knowing who to take from McCoy/Clausen/Tebow. There wasn't a great amount of depth in the draft after that. I liked Pike and LeFevour, but they would have rated below Stanzi/Tolzien/McElroy in the same class.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;788471]The fact that I like 5 different guys in this class to *eventually* become NFL starters is more due to a high point in the cyclical QB demand cycle. But it's also the depth of the class.

Remember, last year was a "strong" QB class, but part of that strength was knowing who to take from McCoy/Clausen/Tebow. There wasn't a great amount of depth in the draft after that. I liked Pike and LeFevour, but they would have rated below Stanzi/Tolzien/McElroy in the same class.[/quote]

I would agree last year was a fairly strong crop. This years to me, there is are no Bradfords and maybe a Colt, but many Tebows.

Tripp, you got any draft rankings/ratings/grades for this year?

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=30gut;788466]Good rant though.[/quote]

Thanks. TigerBlood is flowing pretty strong today #winning.

Speaking of which, you know who's not winning? Von freaking Miller.
[quote][B]Linebacker Von Miller confirmed in a radio interview this week that his dream scenario is to be drafted by the Dallas Cowboys[/B], though it appears unlikely that this dream will become reality given the Cowboys' draft position. But another team with a proud history looking to return to the playoffs is quite interested -- and Miller's first contract would be quite a bit more lucrative if this other team drafted him.[/quote]

Also I think Mel Kiper just won himself a couple more fans in DC.
[quote]Kiper believes Mike Shanahan would be attracted to is TCU's Andy Dalton, whom Kiper expects to go early in the second round, anywhere from 33rd to 45th overall. Washington's second pick is 41st overall. As a senior, Dalton passed for 2,857 yards, 27 touchdowns, eight interceptions and was sacked eight times[/quote]

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=diehard;788465]Who is Aldon Smith?[/quote]

Lol I've already explained this to another guy, Smith is a very young and raw LB/DE from MIZZ, big time potential compared to guys like Pierre-Paul and A Greg Ellis type build. He was almost unblockable at times last yr.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Chico23231;788472]I would agree last year was a fairly strong crop. This years to me, there is are no Bradfords and maybe a Colt, but many Tebows.

Tripp, you got any draft rankings/ratings/grades for this year?[/quote]This was a bit hastily thrown together, so it probably will change a lot. It's info-packed, but probably not as accurate as I like and relies on conventional wisdom/common opinion more than I usually do since I've had about half as much time as last year to look at film cutups.

[url=http://liveballsports.com/2011/03/05/the-post-combine-mega-nfl-draft-post-players-by-round/]The Post Combine Mega-NFL Draft Post, Players by Round « LiveBall Sports[/url]

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;788478]This was a bit hastily thrown together, so it probably will change a lot. It's info-packed, but probably not as accurate as I like and relies on conventional wisdom/common opinion more than I usually do since I've had about half as much time as last year to look at film cutups.

[url=http://liveballsports.com/2011/03/05/the-post-combine-mega-nfl-draft-post-players-by-round/]The Post Combine Mega-NFL Draft Post, Players by Round « LiveBall Sports[/url][/quote]

Good stuff. Got me thinking that the Oline has some talent in there that not getting talked about. If you pulled a Vinny-Zorn special and had 3 2nd round picks, instead of getting all recievers, you could probably walk away 3 high-ceiling potential starters up front.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;788455]I will say this. The QB class is [B]ALWAYS [/B]weak. We need to get used to it. In fact in retrospect it's usually the guy that no one expected to be succeed that ends up being the bell of the ball.

Some perspective.

The weakest class in recent memory was 2000, where Chad Pennington was the top ranked QB. He was picked 17th overall yet when healthy was among the leagues top QB's including a season where he led the 1-15 Dolphins to 11-5.

In 2005 people also labeled the QB class as weak. The only reason Alex Smith was picked number one overall was because San Fran was desperate to do something at the QB position. Aaron Rodgers then proceeded to drop to the 24th spot. "Teams must have passed him up for a reason." Turns out the reason was that no one knew how to evaluate QB's that year except Green Bay.

Few people thought Matt Ryan was that great of a pick. His college stats were underwhelming and he was labeled as having accuracy issues. Everyone knows you build in the trenches and the Falcons were foolishly passing on Glenn Dorsey. Ryan was going to a team that gave up over 50 sacks the year before. He is now the only QB in franchise history to lead the Falcons to back to back winning seasons.

On draft day most of you thought that Joe Flacco would take years to "develop" and why not, he came from a shotgun spread attack at an FCS school. Today is among the most highly respected young QB's in the game.

Josh Freeman. What a wasted pick right? Tampa was drafting Jason Campbell 2.0. Look at this guy. Best season is 20 TD's and 8 Ints. Never led his team to anything big. Career completion percentage under 60%. Man terrible pick. "Oh but his arm is strong." Big whoop. He'll be a bust.

2004 was a strong class, but that was if you were in position to get Rivers or Manning. The Steelers got the left overs in Big Ben, who has gone on to be the most prestigious QB of the class.

2006. Well as long as you could get Young or Leinart you were able to talk about how strong the class was as you had two remarkable college QB's. One with outrageous physical talent that was able to show clutch on college football's biggest stage. And another who played in a pro style offense for a national championship team. But wait, now those two are off the board? Is the class still strong? All I see is Jay Cutler? He played at Vanderbilt, and wasn't able to do much stat wise. He has a strong arm but how many times have we've seen that mean nothing?

People please repeat it with me. [B]"THE QB CLASS IS NEVER STRONG ON DRAFT DAY."[/B] Scouts poke and prod these guys left and right and find virtually every reason why they won't succeed. The fact of the matter is we have no idea how most of them will turn out. If we had drafted most of the above guys on draft day (particularly guys like Freeman or Flacco) most of you would have had a cow.

Forget the strong class concept. We're not building a QB stable. We need one guy to throw the ball. That's it. No one is running a two or three QB offense. If we find that guy that can give us stability at the games most important position we have to take him, even if it means taking the rest of you kicking and screaming.

Next years class is always stronger then this years class when it comes speculation. It's the new Vet min. The funny thing is the guys that people are looking at next year when labeling a class are the guys we're never in position to draft (*read Andrew Luck*).

*End Rant*[/quote]

This is no "rant", it's an armchair scout/GM's coming of age! Great post, probably the best I've read about QBs in the draft. Better points & reserch than any no. of media articles on the subject.

The case or A. Rodgers is really compelling; it was as if a bunch of teams just got scared to pick the kid. We could've had him at #9!

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;788474]Thanks. TigerBlood is flowing pretty strong today #winning.

Speaking of which, you know who's not winning? Von freaking Miller.


Also I think Mel Kiper just won himself a couple more fans in DC.[/quote]

I'd love to get Dalton in the 2nd. Here's hoping Kiper is right.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Dirtbag, it's amazing what sense will do for you.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;788571]Dirtbag, it's amazing what sense will do for you.[/quote]

what kind of "sense" you talkin bout?

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

I would love to have Julio Jones in the 1st round & Ryan Malett in the 2nd

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

Mallett absolutely would not fit our system, and I think Shanahan knows that, but he's the guy at the quarterback position who is now likely undervalued. In the second round, he's a steal.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;788580]Mallett absolutely would not fit our system, and I think Shanahan knows that, but he's the guy at the quarterback position who is now likely undervalued. In the second round, he's a steal.[/quote]

I've come around to this same opinion. I worry about the immaturity rumors, but until you hear something substantiated, he seems like a great prospect, albeit one who has extremely limited mobility. Still, if I have to choose between a guy who runs a 4.5 but is scattershot and a guy who is a statue but has a golden arm, the dude with the arm wins every time.

One would like to believe that our coaches are flexible enough to adapt their system to a less than system-ideal prospect. (I know, we didn't adapt to McNabb, but I don't know how you adapt to a qb throwing bounce passes.)

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

The limited mobility is my biggest concern about Mallett, because I think it hinders development and sets a guy up initially for failure in the NFL.

But that's why you wouldn't take a guy with otherwise top ten ability in the the top ten: because he's missing something from the complete package. Love his value in the second round though, even if he doesn't pan out.

I like Gabbert a lot, and at the end of the day, Gabbert and Mallett have draft profiles that are more similar than they are different. All of the small things say: draft Gabbert, but after the 20th pick, Gabbert won't be there, and Mallett likely still will be.

Re: 2011 NFL Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;788583]The limited mobility is my biggest concern about Mallett, because I think it hinders development and sets a guy up initially for failure in the NFL.

But that's why you wouldn't take a guy with otherwise top ten ability in the the top ten: because he's missing something from the complete package. Love his value in the second round though, even if he doesn't pan out.

I like Gabbert a lot, and at the end of the day, Gabbert and Mallett have draft profiles that are more similar than they are different. All of the small things say: draft Gabbert, but after the 20th pick, Gabbert won't be there, and Mallett likely still will be.[/quote]

From what I've watched of Mallet, which is more than any of the other big name prospects, his delivery doesn't seem to fit the west coat O - too slow. He has that classic 7-step drop deep ball look. Seems to me it would be like trying the JC in W Coast O experiment all over again.