Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

So sick of hearing about Grossman... he's a BUM...A BUM I tell ya.

Let's move forward. Hopefully we start the year with Beck. At this point we have NO IDEA what well get from him exactly. We know what we woulda got from McNabb or butterfingers... half ass production and incosistency. Well be a mystery, even to ourselves. I don't want Vince Young or Palme, whoever.. Keep it in house, start Beck, let it play out.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803875]Cardinals game is up. I intend to do Grossman's week 15, 16, an 17 games but it's much easier to do the 33 snaps that Beck did during preseason rather then the 130+ snaps Grossman did this year so it'll probably take some time to finish all three games.
[YT]B17arflJp9Y[/YT]

Also heres the Jets game.
[YT]G-OVflLY7hg[/YT][/quote]

You're pulling up John Beck pre season highlights? Wow. I'm not sure what to say about that. :eek:

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Have you ever noticed how simliar John Becks release and style of play is to.....John Elway? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady......Joe Montana.......Sonny...Johnny U????

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;804165]You're pulling up John Beck pre season highlights? Wow. I'm not sure what to say about that. :eek:[/quote]

Send money plz. Lol jk, I already haz monies. Either way being bed ridden with a hernia the past two weeks has given me more time then usual, so I decided to take on a few projects.

[quote=Hog1;804173]Have you ever noticed how simliar John Becks release and style of play is to.....John Elway? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady......Joe Montana.......Sonny...Johnny U????[/quote]

Personally not ready to commit to him [Beck] until I see him throw the deep ball competently at this level. Say what you want about Rex, but after doing videos on both now I have to say it's a thing of beauty watching some of the deep throws Rex unleashes against unsuspecting defenses. Beck was more captain checkdown during the preseason but at the same time he did take plenty of shots downfield. Next preseason we'll need him to complete some of those shots, or better yet, during the regular season.

Listen to me, all optimistic about a preaseason even taking place. lulz.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;804036]Please add:

553 yds rushing, 7 TD's rushing, 31 First downs rushing

Total Offense from VY in 2006 (15 games):

2751 yards, 19 TD's, 13 INT's, 2 lost fumbles

FYI: Started off 0-4 as starter his rookie season (missed third game), finished 8-3 the last 11 games of rookie year.

Thus, Rookie of the Year.[/quote]

SO you are taking his rushing stats to boost up his offense when he was absolutely horrible at the QB spot? Newsflash: HE IS A QUARTER BACK NOT A RUNNING BACK!!! He's at the QB spot for a reason and if his rushing stats are what sets him apart than something is wrong. Last time I checked, QBs didn't make it into the hall of fame for their rushing stats. Can you prove any different? Hands down Maurice Jones Drew deserved it.

Come back when you have something credible.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/24/team-checklist-washingon-redskins/#more-132383]Team checklist: Washingon Redskins | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

VY's rushing abilities and stats should not be discredited when discussing the total package he brings on the field

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804253]VY's rushing abilities and stats should not be discredited when discussing the total package he brings on the field[/quote]

If you can find me one rushing QB that's won a super bowl (hell even a MVP) then let me know. A QB should be mobile. Sure, but his stats should be coming from the passing portion of his game, not from his feet. Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does. Straight from Steve Young's mouth, and he should know something or another about QBs with mobility.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804253]VY's rushing abilities and stats should not be discredited when discussing the total package he brings on the field[/quote]


...furthermore, what I can discount is this kids maturity, mental stability, and leadership abilities. He's proven since he's stepped into the league he has absolutely no business being in a leader's position.


It's about time we as Redskin's fan smarten up and stop wanting to bring in idiots with RED FLAGS that are waving fast and furiously. Let somebody else deal with the basket case.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Daseal;804152]I'll say this now, I'm fine with us giving Beck a chance. We always say that we want to give people a chance to learn and come up -- here it is. Not exactly building from within. However we got a guy for a relatively low price and he may give us a shot. I would like to see us give him a chance. I'd be okay giving Grossman the reigns as well. Let them fight it out. Just don't do the typical skins move and go try to get a big name QB.[/quote]
A relatively low price is an understatement. I keep hearing analysts and others say Shanahan liked him enough to trade for him. All we gave up was Doug Dutch to a desperate Ravens team with it entire group of CB's hurt. In fact, we resigned Doug Dutch to the practice squad later that year. So, I would say the price was basically nothing. I am tempering my expectations on Beck, but what I am excited to see the outcome.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804259]If you can find me one rushing QB that's won a super bowl (hell even a MVP) then let me know. A QB should be mobile. Sure, but his stats should be coming from the passing portion of his game, not from his feet. Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does. Straight from Steve Young's mouth, and he should know something or another about QBs with mobility.[/quote]

Well I think you're also looking at his rookie numbers and forgetting that was five years ago. Since then his completion percentage, passer rating, yards/attempt, TD/INT ratio...among other stats have all increased

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804263]Well I think you're also looking at his rookie numbers and forgetting that was five years ago. Since then his completion percentage, passer rating, yards/attempt, TD/INT ratio...among other stats have all increased[/quote]

...and his rushing stats, attempts, and completions have also decreased. He's still a sub 60% passer when it comes to completion %. Hell, if we want that, might as well keep McNabb around to be honest with you. The kid was benched....for Kerry Collins of all people..lol

This is one QB you aren't going to sell me on, and it's mostly due to his mental state. Would I cheer him on? Sure. Would I think it would improve us? Nope.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

What you think is his mental state.

And technically he wasn't benched for Collins (someone else who used to get blasted for his maturity issues...largely related to alcohol abuse). Collins replaced him when Young got injured. But yes, it's true that when the 2009 season started Fisher could have gone with a healthy Young but went with Collins, again reiterating that Fisher never truly was on Young's side

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804259]If you can [B]find me one rushing QB that's won a super bowl [/B](hell even a MVP) then let me know. A QB should be mobile. Sure, but his stats should be coming from the passing portion of his game, not from his feet. Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does. Straight from [B]Steve Young's [/B]mouth, and he should know something or another about QBs with mobility.[/quote]

??????????????????

"The art of fighting without fighting." -Bruce Lee [Enter The Dragon]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;804275]??????????????????

"The art of fighting without fighting." -Bruce Lee [Enter The Dragon][/quote]

I thought that was funny too.

Granted he was a heck of a passer too, but he sure had some legs.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804265]...and his rushing stats, attempts, and completions have also decreased. He's still a sub 60% passer when it comes to completion %. Hell, if we want that, might as well keep McNabb around to be honest with you. [B]The kid was benched....for Kerry Collins[/B] of all people..lol

This is one QB you aren't going to sell me on, and it's mostly due to his mental state. Would I cheer him on? Sure. Would I think it would improve us? Nope.[/quote]

2009 Season:

Kerry Collins began season as starter. Record = 0-6
Vince Young became starter after bye week. Record = 8-2
*averaged a QB rating of 89.3 during those 10 games*

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804259]If you can find me one [B]rushing QB that's won a super bowl[/B] (hell even a MVP) then let me know. A QB should be mobile. Sure, but his stats should be coming from the passing portion of his game, not from his feet. Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does. Straight from [B]Steve Young's [/B]mouth, and he should know something or another about QBs with mobility.[/quote]

Running QB?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8P1TzqWEgY&feature=player_detailpage]YouTube - ‪Steve Young's Great Escape‬‏[/ame]

Super Bowl?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuGr1pDEEM&feature=player_detailpage]YouTube - ‪Steve Young's MVP performance in Super Bowl XXIX‬‏[/ame]


Channeling my inner John Stewart.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Should have asked for two running QB's lulz. Still don't forget John Elway. You also might be able to include Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;804281]2009 Season:

Kerry Collins began season as starter. Record = 0-6
Vince Young became starter after bye week. Record = 8-2
*averaged a QB rating of 89.3 during those 10 games*[/quote]


Vince Young isn't the answer. Yeah he caught on last season and had somewhat of a rebound in 10 games. Point is the Titans deem him expendable still, and they are the opnly ones to have had to deal with him. Being benched to the like of a has been like Collins is just as bad as when Tarvaris Jackson was benched in favor of my man Gus. Oh yeah, that's right Gus went what? 8-3 til he got hurt and they had to bring in Jackson again? Bringing in VY is a big gamble at this point. And if he sucks, you are assured another 2-3 seasons of subpar Qbing. If he is a wreck you will then have to draft a QB and hope he is a gamer and not a Patrick Ramsey or David Carr.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Big gamble for a 6-10 team with no QB?

I don't see why it's a big risk at all.

If he sucks you cut him and move on.

That said I agree with SS, the longer the lockout goes on the less chance he ends up here. We'll likely ride things out with a stellar platoon of Beck and Grossman and both will probably see their fare share of PT.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;804293]Vince Young isn't the answer. Yeah he caught on last season and had somewhat of a rebound in 10 games. Point is the Titans deem him expendable still, and they are the opnly ones to have had to deal with him. Being benched to the like of a has been like Collins is just as bad as when Tarvaris Jackson was benched in favor of my man Gus. Oh yeah, that's right Gus went what? 8-3 til he got hurt and they had to bring in Jackson again? Bringing in VY is a big gamble at this point. And if he sucks, you are assured another 2-3 seasons of subpar Qbing. If he is a wreck you will then have to draft a QB and hope he is a gamer and not a Patrick Ramsey or David Carr.[/quote]

Well there's a difference between a has been and a never was...no seriously, they're probably fairly equal.

But I don't get your Gus point anyway?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803997]You guys are trying to make me jump on the Beckwagon. But I can't...not yet[/quote]

I'm a bit hesitant to join the Stormin Mormons myself.

I'm still not a Beckliever. His preseason highlights are so so. Lets hope I'm wrong.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804259][B]If you can find me one rushing QB that's won a super bowl (hell even a MVP) then let me know[/B]. A QB should be mobile. Sure, but his stats should be coming from the passing portion of his game, not from his feet. Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does. Straight from Steve Young's mouth, and he should know something or another about QBs with mobility.[/quote]

I've got three:

Steve Young: 4.239 rushing yards, 4.3 yards per carry 43 rushing TD's
John Elway : 3,467 rushing yards, 4.4 yards per carry, 33 rushing TD's

Selected 9 time Pro Bowl and 1975 NFL [B]MVP[/B] [B]Fran Tarkenton[/B]:
3647 rushing yards, 5.4 yards a carry, 32 Rushing TD's

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804259]Making plays doesn't win championships, sustaining drives does.[/quote]Why would anyone think making plays and sustaining drives are mutually exclusive?
They're not.
Making plays is all about sustaining drives, converting 3rd downs.
NFL.com keeps track of a great stat that only shows up on player match-ups: percentage of runs resulting in 1st downs:
For example Aaron Rodgers [I][B]rushed[/B][/I] for 356 yards for 5.6 yards per carry, [I][B]34.4%[/B][/I] of his runs resulted in 1st downs.
The ability to turn a possible sack into a non-sack in itself is a drive sustaining form of playmaking.

[quote]The chances of a team scoring a TD after being sacked are very slim. Last season, only 5.3% of TD drives survived a sack, i.e a sack was recorded on only 60 TD drives out of 1,139 in the 2009 regular season[/quote][url=http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/8/18/1625167/dallas-cowboys-td-drive-killers-pt]Dallas Cowboys TD Drive Killers (Pt. 3) - Sacks and Field Position - Blogging The Boys[/url]

BTW-Its ironic that Steve Young made the statement you quote because the statement in my sig is from Bill Walsh and its the reason why Bill Walsh wanted Young in the first place: playmaking.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[QUOTE]2. Beck threw a wounded duck downfield that was intercepted by Kevin Barnes. But he also threw a[B] 50-yard pass to Terrence Austin.[/B] Wouldn’t get too excited over anything with the QBs in May, good or bad. That position is all about what you do when the pocket collapses. But this does not look like Sonny vs. Billy, the sequel.
[/QUOTE]

Great reporting by that other guy. All lame duck passes huh?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=hooskins;804310]I'm still not a [B]Beckliever[/B]. His preseason highlights are so so. Lets hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

Okay you win this thread so far :laughing2

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;804323]Great reporting by that other guy. All lame duck passes huh?[/quote]

A major alert would be issued for the city of Washington DC if there weren't some form of summertime QB controversy, it's become a right of passage that has outdistanced the age of many. I expect it to continue until an eventual starter is named and we can all rally around whoever that may be.

May the best man win.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;804275]??????????????????

"The art of fighting without fighting." -Bruce Lee [Enter The Dragon][/quote]

[quote=Mattyk;804278]I thought that was funny too.

Granted he was a heck of a passer too, but he sure had some legs.[/quote]



Now both of you are just being funny. Let me clarify this. When I say "rushing QB", I mean one that dumps his read progression to soon run the ball. I"m talking along the lines of a Cam Newton, a Michael Vick. Young isn't a rushing QB, he's a QB that can run. Huge difference in what I mean and what I'm talking about. Young also put up incredible numbers with his arm. Until Vince Young comes up with numbers like that, then I'll change my mind about those run first QBs.

Also, Elway average 212 yards per season in rushing. Again, not a rushing QB even though he can run.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Well, one difference is the system that Vince Young played in vs. Steve Young. SY played in a several, quick passes (mainly to the best WR in history, Jerry Rice) in Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense; while V. Young was asked more so to hand off to arguably the game's most electrifying running back and pick his throws more judiciously.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804271]What you think is his mental state.[/quote]

[url=http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/13/vince-young-strip-club-fight-assault-tennesse-titans-university-of-texas-longhorns/]Tennessee Titans Quarterback Vince Young Fight over University of Texas Longhorn Smack Talk | TMZ.com[/url]


[url=http://beat.bodog.eu/sports/vince-young-goes-missing-titans-call-police-65355.html]Vince Young Goes Missing, Titans Call Police - Bodog Beat[/url]

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/523977-titans-vince-young-walks-out-on-team-after-benching]Titans' Vince Young Walks Out on Team After Benching | Bleacher Report[/url]


I'm not even going to include the articles where there is talk that he isn't willing to put the time and dedication into his craft at the QB position. He was referred to as a guy who would be last to show up, and first to roll out. I've seen enough from this kid to know I don't want him within 1,000 miles of DC, unless he's playing against us.

Walking out on the team and teammates sealed the deal for me. We already have a guy like that. His name is Haynesworthless.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804352]Now both of you are just being funny. Let me clarify this. When I say "rushing QB", I mean one that dumps his read progression to soon run the ball. I"m talking along the lines of a Cam Newton, a Michael Vick. Young isn't a rushing QB, he's a QB that can run. [B]Huge difference in what I mean and what I'm talking about[/B]. Young also put up incredible numbers with his arm. Until Vince Young comes up with numbers like that, then I'll change my mind about those run first QBs.

Also, Elway average 212 yards per season in rushing. Again, not a rushing QB even though he can run.[/quote]

You should get into politics.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Good interview here:

[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/05/25/talking-john-beck-vince-young-and-more/]HomerMcFanboy » talking john beck, vince young and more[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804508]Good interview here:

[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/05/25/talking-john-beck-vince-young-and-more/]HomerMcFanboy » talking john beck, vince young and more[/url][/quote]

Indeed

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I like the comparison to Vick's situation.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I'm not a huge Young fan but he is right when he says pro-bowl QBs don't get kicked to the curb very often. I'm not sure what that means though. Is it a good thing for VY or bad?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;804296]Big gamble for a 6-10 team with no QB?

I don't see why it's a big risk at all.

If he sucks you cut him and move on.

That said I agree with SS, the longer the lockout goes on the less chance he ends up here. We'll likely ride things out with a stellar platoon of Beck and Grossman and both will probably see their fare share of PT.[/quote]


Why go through the BS in signing the guy if he is a gamble and a waste of time and say miss out on a possible chance at Palmer, etc. We really needed to sign a QB in the first round. Kerrigan was a great pick, but moving him to OLB is a gamble in itself.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

There was a time when Palmer may have been one of the more underrated QBs in the league, now he may be one of the more overrated.

I'm sure he'll be fine somewhere, but I don't want any QB brought here that's older than the guys we have.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804558]There was a time when Palmer may have been one of the more underrated QBs in the league, now he may be one of the more overrated.

I'm sure he'll be fine somewhere, but I don't want any QB brought here that's older than the guys we have.[/quote]

I agree. I'll take Vince Young over Palmer. If we had a team that was ready to compete for a title minus a QB, then I'd want Palmer, but we're getting young, it feels like we're finally moving on from Gibbs team.

I still think its pretty disappointing we didn't draft a QB in the draft. Who knows how any of these guys will work out, but I would feel more comfortable with a guy we at least had to play in the next year or so. If Beck falls flat on his face, it sets it back another year.

I'm not so concerned who starts for this team week 1 of next year (hopefully there is a week 1)... I'm looking to know who is starting week 1 next year.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804558]There was a time when Palmer may have been one of the more underrated QBs in the league, now he may be one of the more overrated.

I'm sure he'll be fine somewhere, but I don't want any QB brought here that's older than the guys we have.[/quote]

If you go back 2 years ago Carson Palmer and Jason Campbell put nearly identical numbers, except Campbell put up his numbers in utter chaos and Palmer played with almost every possible advantage a QB could wish for.