Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;848973]Well the good news for you is we should find out by Wed. I'm just seriously hoping Beck doesn't let you down on Sun.[/quote]


Rex has had 9 Int's (League High) in the last 4 games, IDT Beck can be any worse lol

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Personally I don't think it matters.
The QB we need to take us to the playoffs is not on the roster.
I'd rather just go thru the motions, finish the season and hopefully find a way to get the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the draft next year.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Here's another opinion of the situation...

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?356634-Why-Mike-Shanahan-may-start-Grossman-over-Beck]Why Mike Shanahan may start Grossman over Beck[/url]

Grossman may have thrown a ton of INT's but I also have seen a ton of balls that should have been caught or the receiver should have made and attempt to go up after the ball and or fight for it. Our receivers are not the type to go up and challenge for a ball in the air. Heck our receivers are not the types to be told the ball will be in the center of the field on the 10 yard line go get it. I wish we did have those types of WR's but we don't. Which is why I can see Beck throwing just as many INT's as Grossman because although Beck has a stronger arm and will throw the ball farther.... I can see where the receiver's won't go after the ball and the other teams Safeties or CB's will.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;848974]This past year our draft strategy was to move down and infuse youth at many different positions. We did a good job of this. We have a good surrounding cast for a franchise QB.

But now it is time to get that QB. I will be happy if we take the opposite approach in the offseason by [B]going all-in to draft a talented rookie QB.[/B] If it takes trading several picks to get one studly QB, so be it.[/quote]

If one is available, I'm right with you on this Lotus.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;848977]Personally I don't think it matters.
The QB we need to take us to the playoffs is not on the roster.
I'd rather just go thru the motions, finish the season and hopefully find a way to get the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the draft next year.[/quote]

So then it begs the question, are you requesting the team tank the year to get high enough in the draft to pick said 2nd or 3rd best QB? I don't want to see us tank because there are fans out there who would be shouting for MS to be fired and someone else brought in.

I too agree with you that our franchise QB is not on the roster though. I don't know who said it or wrote it but I had seen or heard somewhere that it might take like 3, 1st round draft picks to move up to 1st place. I'm not for that either. But whoever the team is eyeing has to be mobile as all get out and have a strong arm to throw deep.

The other side of the coin is if the team is just not all there yet and yeah we might make the play offs but no much farther then I'd also like to see us playing the young WR's more to get them ready for next year also. Why each week one Rookie WR can't be active to get playing time is a wonder to me.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I don't think it's gonna matter much either who starts. Grossman could come out and have a huge game against Carolina, that would certainly be typical of him. Or Beck comes in and is solidly unspectacular, and we try to grind out wins with him the rest of the way leaning on the D and running game.

If it were my call, I would roll with Beck and see what he's got. Rex has 8 starts here dating back to last year and he's proven he's never going to be more than he is.

Either way, the starting QB for 2012 isn't on this roster.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;848974]This past year our draft strategy was to move down and infuse youth at many different positions. We did a good job of this. We have a good surrounding cast for a franchise QB.

But now it is time to get that QB. I will be happy if we take the opposite approach in the offseason by going all-in to draft a talented rookie QB. If it takes trading several picks to get one studly QB, so be it.[/quote]

Agreed.

We have a good crop of draft picks for the 2012 draft. Currently, we have our top 5 picks, an extra 4th(Raiders), the Vikings 6th (but not ours), and our 7th - with one unknown late round pick going to Arizona for TH. Not enough to get to the #1 over all, but certainly, we could use a package of this years, plus maybe a mid range(2-4th) next year as flexibility to move up to a position that lets us get one the top 3 qb's. I was going to lament that many other teams would be looking for QB's, but honestly, I could only name 4 other than us that might spend a 1st round pick on someone not named Luck - Indy(although I think they are primarily going to go after Luck), Miami, and Seahawks. Denver and/or Cleveland might depending on how the season goes.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;848980]So then it begs the question, are you requesting the team tank the year to get high enough in the draft to pick said 2nd or 3rd best QB? I don't want to see us tank because there are fans out there who would be shouting for MS to be fired and someone else brought in.

I too agree with you that our franchise QB is not on the roster though. I don't know who said it or wrote it but I had seen or heard somewhere that it might take like 3, 1st round draft picks to move up to 1st place. I'm not for that either. But whoever the team is eyeing has to be mobile as all get out and have a strong arm to throw deep.

The other side of the coin is if the team is just not all there yet and yeah we might make the play offs but no much farther then I'd also like to see us playing the young WR's more to get them ready for next year also. Why each week one Rookie WR can't be active to get playing time is a wonder to me.[/quote]

No, I dont approve of the suck for Luck or suck for any other QB for that matter. I think we'll end up near the middle of the pack any way and will have to trade up to get the 2nd or 3rd best QB. I hate giving away picks in a trade but I dont see any other way.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;848966]Why did you think that would be interesting? Honest question, after all there was a poll where I believe a large majority wanted Beck but a substantial minority wanted Grossman. Also, not many of us(if any) are sold on Beck or Grossman leading this team after this year, and so why would a thread where a fan base comes to accept the decision made by their team be of any exciting interest? Again, seriously wondering what made you think it.[/quote]

The HC named the QB before the season started and 7 weeks later there is a change sometimes it's interesting to go back and look at what fans said then as oppose to what they say now.Some people predicted this, ......like it or not it is interesting.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Giantone;849009]The HC named the QB before the season started and 7 weeks later there is a change sometimes it's interesting to go back and look at what fans said then as oppose to what they say now.Some people predicted this, ......like it or not it is interesting.[/quote]

fair enough. I really just wondered what your reasoning was.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;848978]Here's another opinion of the situation...

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?356634-Why-Mike-Shanahan-may-start-Grossman-over-Beck]Why Mike Shanahan may start Grossman over Beck[/url]

Grossman may have thrown a ton of INT's but I also have seen a ton of balls that should have been caught or the receiver should have made and attempt to go up after the ball and or fight for it. Our receivers are not the type to go up and challenge for a ball in the air. Heck our receivers are not the types to be told the ball will be in the center of the field on the 10 yard line go get it. I wish we did have those types of WR's but we don't. Which is why I can see Beck throwing just as many INT's as Grossman because although Beck has a stronger arm and will throw the ball farther.... I can see where the receiver's won't go after the ball and the other teams Safeties or CB's will.[/quote]

This is a very good point that I have though for awhile but didnt know how to put it into words. The Skins WRs just dont go after balls and that has resulted in some missed opportunities. The QB is ultimately responsible for the ball but there is a lot that goes into the result such as the WRs and O line. Right now the Skins WRs arent much to brag about and the O line is now decimated so Rex or Beck, it wont much matter.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Lotus;848974]This past year our draft strategy was to move down and infuse youth at many different positions. We did a good job of this. We have a good surrounding cast for a franchise QB.

But now it is time to get that QB. I will be happy if we take the opposite approach in the offseason by going all-in to draft a talented rookie QB. [B] If it takes trading several picks to get one studly QB, so be it.[/B][/quote]

Yep. A first this year and next as well as a third or possibly a second, or a first and a third this year, or even a first and a second this year would be a small price to pay to pick an elite quarterback that gives us an excellent shot at winning multiple Super Bowls.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;849000]No, I dont approve of the suck for Luck or suck for any other QB for that matter. I think we'll end up near the middle of the pack any way and will have to trade up to get the 2nd or 3rd best QB. I hate giving away picks in a trade but I dont see any other way.[/quote]

Hard to suck for Luck anyways when teams like the Dolphins and Colts suck so hard they are the frontrunners for him anyway.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;848976]Rex has had 9 Int's (League High) in the last 4 games, IDT Beck can be any worse lol[/quote]

I'd just like to point out that it's not an anomilly.....

Brady- 8 Int's 2012
Brees- 8 Int's 2012
Newton- 9 Int's 2012
EManning- 5 Int's 2012
Romo- 6 Int's 2012
Roethlisberger- 6 Int's 2012
Vick- 8 Int's 2012
Rivers- 7 Int's 2012
Grossman- 9 Int's 2012

So I guess what your saying is because he has 9 Int's in the last 4 games he sucks which essentially your saying these other QB's suck also correct? I don't think you can base a QB's product totally off his interception per game ratio. Heck just about each of these QB's have already had one horrid game so if you dump Grossman's bad game last week he would only have 5 Int for the season.... pretty much right up there if not better then the rest of the QB's.

This was for all you statistical people out there.

[B]EDIT: I said 2012 and I meant this year 2011 sorry.[/B]

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849078]I'd just like to point out that it's not an anomilly.....

Brady- 8 Int's 2012
Brees- 8 Int's 2012
Newton- 9 Int's 2012
EManning- 5 Int's 2012
Romo- 6 Int's 2012
Roethlisberger- 6 Int's 2012
Vick- 8 Int's 2012
Rivers- 7 Int's 2012
Grossman- 9 Int's 2012

So I guess what your saying is because he has 9 Int's in the last 4 games he sucks which essentially your saying these other QB's suck also correct? I don't think you can base a QB's product totally off his interception per game ratio. Heck just about each of these QB's have already had one horrid game so if you dump Grossman's bad game last week he would only have 5 Int for the season.... pretty much right up there if not better then the rest of the QB's.

This was for all you statistical people out there.

[B]EDIT: I said 2012 and I meant this year 2011 sorry.[/B][/quote]Good post. I'll cut off the people who are all, "don't compare Grossman to Brady!" people at the front: you're missing the point.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Brady had 4 Int's in the Bills game.
Brees has had 3 Int's in the Buccaneers game.
Newton had 3 Int's in the Packers and Falcons games.
Roethlisberger had 3 Int's in the Ravens game.
Vick had 4 Int's in the Bills game.

I guess all these QB's should be benched for the 2nd stringer as well.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849090]Brady had 4 Int's in the Bills game.
Brees has had 3 Int's in the Buccaneers game.
Newton had 3 Int's in the Packers and Falcons games.
Roethlisberger had 3 Int's in the Ravens game.
Vick had 4 Int's in the Bills game.

I guess all these QB's should be benched for the 2nd stringer as well.[/quote]

But I would bet my life that most Redskins fans would trade Grossman for any one of the QB's you listed above... Not trying to be a smart ass ,but just sayn brother.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849083]Good post. I'll cut off the people who are all, "don't compare Grossman to Brady!" people at the front: you're missing the point.[/quote]


LOL, I presume the point is ..... we just want to hate someone to hate someone and poor Grossman drew the short straw from the beginning. So no matter how well or how poor he would have done it's been about finding away to get Beck on the field.

Never mind that fact that other, supposedly more talented QB's, have done the exact same thing he has and no one would even think about trading them out for the 2nd stringer. All I'm saying is don't ask for change based on the INT's given up. Because I'm almost ready to bet Beck will hit the field Sun. and do just as bad because the WR's can't catch a cold like last Sun. against the Eagles. There have been a lot of catchable passes that the WR's failed to catch each week also. Some of them should have been for TD's.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849090]Brady had 4 Int's in the Bills game.
Brees has had 3 Int's in the Buccaneers game.
Newton had 3 Int's in the Packers and Falcons games.
Roethlisberger had 3 Int's in the Ravens game.
Vick had 4 Int's in the Bills game.

I guess all these QB's should be benched for the 2nd stringer as well.[/quote]


Yeah well Rex Grossman isn't even on the same Planet as these 5 above. So that argument isn't too strong my friend.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

For the record I don't hate Rex Grossman and I wanted him to be a good QB for us but he's just not, 9INTs in 4 games? CMON folks

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=44ever;849094]But I would bet my life that most Redskins fans would trade Grossman for any one of the QB's you listed above... Not trying to be a smart ass ,but just sayn brother.[/quote]

and... I would also. But my point is everyone is all over putting Beck in simply because of the INT's each game.

All I'm saying is there are other QB's that are just as bad with the interceptions. Now the next arguement is going to be that he's not putting points on the board and as I said there have been plenty of balls that should have been caught for a TD but were not because they were dropped.

Maybe if the team had decent WR's those dropped balls would be TD's and we would not be having to talk about the lack of points on the board. But I'm sure Beck will come in and fix this issue (how I don't know) no different then anyone of those top ranked QB's would be able to come in and fix our problems.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849099]Yeah well Rex Grossman isn't even on the same Planet as these 5 above. So that argument isn't too strong my friend.[/quote]You're missing the point.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

And those other QB's have like 17 Tds by now also except Cam and he's a rookie that will be a superstar

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849111]You're missing the point.[/quote]


Lol No I see the point I mean it happens to all the QBs but Rex has done this his whole career.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849101]For the record I don't hate Rex Grossman and I wanted him to be a good QB for us but he's just not, 9INTs in 4 games? CMON folks[/quote]

Come on man. I'm betting hardly so. The only reason some of the fans felt as you said was because he was named the starter. Trust me I wanted Beck because of all the hype in the off season. I wanted Beck because of the fact he's more mobile. But the coach's saw something else. Something we didn't see.

All I'm saying is perhaps it's not all Rex. But we fans are quick to ship him because of the INT ratio per game.

I'll gladly eat crow come the next few weeks when Beck has to face more talented teams then the Panthers and can put the points on the board a long with cutting down on the INT's. But I just doubt that I'm going to half to. Nothing against Beck, I'm just saying I think we are going to see the same if not similar results from Beck .... who seems to be some fans savior for the season.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Actually, it is a fair point that even great QBs have stretches of throwing picks. But even for the excellent ones who have done so this season (Brady, Brees, et al.), they've also thrown a lot of TDs -- a lot more than Rex.

The reality is that Rex just hasn't been good this season, and we've largely won 3 games despite him, not because of him. As I see it, his performaces are as follows:

1. Giants win -- a good game all around for Rex.
2. AZ win -- a terrible first half, but a solid second half and comeback win.
3. Dallas loss -- awful
4. Rams win -- awful
5. Eagles loss -- awful

By my count, that is 6 quarters -- out of 20 -- where he has played well. And that just doesn't cut it in this league. I like the guy and was rooting for him to be successful. And I like the fact that his teammates are pulling for him -- see the Moss response -- which suggests he's showing greater leadership in practice than appears evident on the field.

At this point, I would argue for giving Beck a shot. Rex is a turnover machine and has been his whole career, and as we do not exactly have an explosive offense (a great D, though), we have to basically play mistake free football to win games. And I just do not have confidence he can do that.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849112]And[B] those other QB's have like 17 Tds by now [/B]also except Cam and he's a rookie that will be a superstar[/quote]


This statement is incorrect also.

Some of them do some don't.

Brady- 16 TD's , 8 INT's.
Brees- 13 TD's , 8 INT's.
EManning- 11 TD's , 5 INT's.
Romo- 8 TD's, 6 INT's.
Roethlisberger- 9 TD's, 6 INT's.
Vick- 9 TD's , 8 INT's.
Rivers- 6 TD's , 7 INT's.

All I'm saying is we fans are quick to point the finger at the QB, no matter who's in the game, but we don't know who's fault it's been actually on each play. Only the coaching staff would know if the WR failed to run the right route, if the QB made the correct decision with where he threw the ball. On top of that what about the dropped balls by the receivers? clearly that should not count against either QB who starts.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849083]Good post. I'll cut off the people who are all, "don't compare Grossman to Brady!" people at the front: you're missing the point.[/quote]

what about the ones who say all those Grossman INT werent his fault? those are my favs

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849123]Come on man. I'm betting hardly so. The only reason some of the fans felt as you said was because he was named the starter. Trust me I wanted Beck because of all the hype in the off season. I wanted Beck because of the fact he's more mobile. But the coach's saw something else. Something we didn't see.

All I'm saying is perhaps it's not all Rex. But we fans are quick to ship him because of the INT ratio per game.

I'll gladly eat crow come the next few weeks when Beck has to face more talented teams then the Panthers and can put the points on the board a long with cutting down on the INT's. But I just doubt that I'm going to half to. Nothing against Beck, I'm just saying I think we are going to see the same if not similar results from Beck .... who seems to be some fans savior for the season.[/quote]

These coaches tied themselves up because they [I]have [/I]to give the job to the competition winner, in which case was CLEARLY Rex at that time. That doesn't mean their decisions are ultimately right, as LJ and Galloway have already shown, and Stallworth and Banks are showing us once again.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Rex won the QB "competition". Shanny is a genius.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849115]Lol No I see the point I mean it happens to all the QBs but Rex has done this his whole career.[/quote]

and..... the others have not?

Brady- 151 games, 111 INT's.
Brees- 144 games, 140 INT's.
EManning- 111 games, 118 INT's.
Stafford- 19 games, 25 INT's.
Roethlisberger- 105 games, 92 INT's.
Vick- 104 games, 66 INT's.

Grossman- 46 games, 49 INT's.

I'm soo glad EManning and Stafford suck just as much as Grossman. I wonder when those respected teams will start chanting for the 2nd stringer.

[QUOTE=Chico23231;849137]what about the ones who say all those Grossman INT werent his fault? those are my favs[/QUOTE]

Some, not all. Anyhow, been watching some game tape and my concern isn't so much the Interceptions. It's that guys are getting wide open and he's missing them.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;849165]Some, not all. Anyhow, been watching some game tape and my concern isn't so much the Interceptions. It's that guys are getting wide open and he's missing them.[/quote]

Pick #3 intended for Davis seemed like it was FD's fault all the way.

Anyone notice after that pick they showed Cooley talking to Rex on the sideline, probably asking him what happened. Rex says something and you could see Cooley say "F that". I'm assuming Rex probably said Davis effed up the route.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

This is pretty insightful,

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/10/18/11/Playing-Redskins-INT-guessing-game/landing.html?blockID=579114&feedID=10376]Playing Redskins' INT guessing game[/url]

I'll go back to saying put Beck and lets hope it all works out especially with the long ball but if the receivers are not going after the ball or fighting for it we will see more of the same.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

and I always hate to hear this.....

[QUOTE]“You’ve just got to flush it,” Grossman said after Sunday's game, a 20-13 Redskins loss.[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Grossman-Puts-Eagles-Game-In-the-Past/fd0beffb-7676-494e-9293-ae11911efdc5]Grossman Puts Eagles Game In the Past[/url]

I think if you don't go back and see what went wrong, and look to how to fix it your destined to repeat history. The coaching staff refused to go back and watch last years game to see what went wrong and not allow it to happen again, and it happened again. So I guess the coaching staff would prefer to go that route again and just throw out this film thinking this game was a fluke also.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849149]and..... the others have not?

Brady- 151 games, 111 INT's.
Brees- 144 games, 140 INT's.
EManning- 111 games, 118 INT's.
Stafford- 19 games, 25 INT's.
Roethlisberger- 105 games, 92 INT's.
Vick- 104 games, 66 INT's.

Grossman- 46 games, 49 INT's.

I'm soo glad EManning and Stafford suck just as much as Grossman. I wonder when those respected teams will start chanting for the 2nd stringer.[/quote]

Here is the real stat to look at. TD to INT comparison.

Brady- 151 games, [B]277 TD's [/B]to 111 INT's.
Brees- 144 games, [B]248 TD's[/B] to 140 INT's

Grossman- 46 games, [B]46 TD's[/B] to 49 INT's.

Stafford - 19 games [B]34 TD's[/B] to 25 INT's
EMannig 11 games 167 TD's to 118 INT's

Grossman is not good. Period.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Mattyk;849170]Pick #3 intended for Davis seemed like it was FD's fault all the way.

Anyone notice after that pick they showed Cooley talking to Rex on the sideline, probably asking him what happened. Rex says something and you could see Cooley say "F that". I'm assuming Rex probably said Davis effed up the route.[/quote]

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Grossman-Puts-Eagles-Game-In-the-Past/fd0beffb-7676-494e-9293-ae11911efdc5]Grossman Puts Eagles Game In the Past[/url]

[B]INT No. 3: [/B]Eighth drive, the Redskins trailed 21-6 and face a second-and-12 at the Eagles’ 21-yard line. Formation was 4WR-ORB-1WR. Four-man rush vs. five-man protection. Grossman again looked for Davis on deep post but the tape intimates that Davis hesitated on breaking off his route, which allowed Coleman to make his second interception.

[B]Grossman: [/B]“Some of these, you have to trust the other people to make a cut to cross a safety’s face. I’m not saying Fred didn’t do that but when things are tight, you have to make a quick decision and I was trusting he was going to make a cut. But he wasn’t able to.”

[B]Our guess: [/B]Hearing Grossman’s post-game session, it guaranteed further examination and the Davis’ hiccup showed what was going on. Add to that Shanahan’s short reveal that a benching depends on who is at fault equals that Davis made the error and earned Grossman another series.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Who says they're not going back and watching the game?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Defensewins;849174]Here is the real stat to look at. TD to INT comparison.

Brady- 151 games, [B]277 TD's [/B]to 111 INT's.
Brees- 144 games, [B]248 TD's[/B] to 140 INT's

Grossman- 46 games, [B]46 TD's[/B] to 49 INT's.

Stafford - 19 games [B]34 TD's[/B] to 25 INT's
EMannig 11 games 167 TD's to 118 INT's

Grossman is not good. Period.[/quote]

One small correction, EManning had 111 games.

No I agree with you. My point is do you really think any of those QB's would do any better in this offense with the same WR's Rex has had? I'll be man enough to admit they might have a little better results, but look at their skills. Each one of them I'd say are accurate on the short routes no different then Grossman. Where the difference is, is that the other QB's can throw up the deep ball and they have WR's who will locate the ball in the air and run to where its going to be. For whatever reason if the ball is not right in the bread basket for our WR's they don't catch it. and.... even if it is in the bread basket they drop it half the time.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SBXVII;849181]One small correction, EManning had 111 games.

No I agree with you. My point is do you really think any of those QB's would do any better in this offense with the same WR's Rex has had? I'll be man enough to admit they might have a little better results, but look at their skills. Each one of them I'd say are accurate on the short routes no different then Grossman. Where the difference is, is that the other QB's can throw up the deep ball and they have WR's who will locate the ball in the air and run to where its going to be. For whatever reason if the ball is not right in the bread basket for our WR's they don't catch it. and.... even if it is in the bread basket they drop it half the time.[/quote]

Rex sucks, let's just call it what it is. Guys like Brady have worked with no-name WR corps in the past and had success. Our WRs aren't world beaters but the cupboard is far from bare too.