Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;897052]It's on the front page.


[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8278b475/article/nfl-takes-millions-in-cap-space-away-from-cowboys-skins?module=HP11_headline_stack]NFL.com news: NFL takes millions in cap space away from Cowboys, 'Skins[/url][/quote]

I guess my next question is how is that Allen nor the Boys's have not received something official yet? It is just media putting this out there? Has to be something from the commish office right?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jayroc24;897060]I guess my next question is how is that Allen nor the Boys's have not received something official yet? It is just media putting this out there? Has to be something from the commish office right?[/quote]

yes. they were notified yesterday. youre about 10 pages behind the rest of us :)

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897063]yes. they were notified yesterday. youre about 10 pages behind the rest of us :)[/quote]

No...as of the statement made last night (around 8PM) by BA the team had not been officially notified.

One would think that ahs changed by now though. Or not I guess.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=NC_Skins;897043]While Fletch is a priority, he's not going to get that 8-9mil/year figure he's looking for. (especially now)[/quote]
Maybe not from us.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jayroc24;897060]I guess my next question is how is that Allen nor the Boys's have not received something official yet? It is just media putting this out there? Has to be something from the commish office right?[/quote]

They won't send it in writing because it's not legal and it will prove collusion if they do. This is not gonna hold up in court that's why the Redskins need to get an injunction...fighting it after they lose out on the players they want to sign does them no good.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;897066]No...as of the statement made last night (around 8PM) by BA the team had not been officially notified.

One would think that ahs changed by now though. Or not I guess.[/quote]

The NFL confirmed that they have been notified. i think clark judge reported on it as well and its been linked several times.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think I'm just as confused. The teams were supposedly made aware of the penalty. BA says they were not at around 8pm. Today the NFL takes 18 mill. WTF.

As has been stated why did they wait until 24 hrs prior to FA? They cold have done this back in Sept. Oct. Nov. Dec. Jan. Feb. and they wait till after the Skins announce a trade with the Rams, awaiting approval, and 24 hrs. prior to FA. All to force their hand. BS.

I'll say it again. If there was an agreement by the owners then there was collusion amongst owners during the time of the negotiations and the NFLPA needs to step up and file a grievance. If there was no agreement (which the NFL wanted everyone to believe at the time to get the new CBA signed) then you can't come out now and cry foul over something they approved in order to not get suit and change their tune now.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897074]The NFL confirmed that they have been notified. i think clark judge reported on it as well and its been linked several times.[/quote]

In writing?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=celts32;897073]They won't send it in writing because it's not legal and it will prove collusion if they do. This is not gonna hold up in court that's why the Redskins need to get an injunction...fighting it after they lose out on the players they want to sign does them no good.[/quote]

in theory and principle, i wholeheartedly agree with you. however, i am 99% sure that this is not a matter that can be litigated, so court isnt an option. the skins could probably appeal to goodell and he will just say no. its awful, and im sure the skins will try to fight it somehow, but i'm not sure how. in the end, i dont see this being overturned. the league and players both approved it already. the most i can see happening is goodell allowing the skins and cowboys to spread the hit into 2014, when the cap will increase dramatically due to the new tv deals.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897074]The NFL confirmed that they have been notified. i think clark judge reported on it as well and its been linked several times.[/quote]

I just went back and checked and did not see anything... do you have a link? The only one I found was Allen saying they abided by the rlues of the uncapped year. Just trying to get confrimation...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jayroc24;897087]I just went back and checked and did not see anything... do you have a link? The only one I found was Allen saying they abided by the rlues of the uncapped year. Just trying to get confrimation...[/quote]

Schefter confirmed it on Mike and Mike, not sure what else I can say.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=celts32;897080]In writing?[/quote]


[URL="http://http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/17756493/redskins-cowboys-punishments-to-be-split-over-2-years"]http://http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/17756493/redskins-cowboys-punishments-to-be-split-over-2-years[/URL]

[quote]Both teams contend they are innocent, with the Redskins saying they received no written confirmation of of 2012 salary-cap adjustments first reported by the media. However, sources indicate Washington was notified by Monday and the Cowboys earlier.
[/quote]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;897088]Schefter confirmed it on Mike and Mike, not sure what else I can say.[/quote]

It just doesn't seem right.... Everyone reporting it, but no confirmation from League...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897091][URL="http://http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/17756493/redskins-cowboys-punishments-to-be-split-over-2-years"]http://http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/17756493/redskins-cowboys-punishments-to-be-split-over-2-years[/URL][/quote]

This is what I found.... and still no confirmation from the League.

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/17751262/report-nfl-takes-cap-space-from-cowboys-redskins-for-front-loading-deals]Eye On Football - CBSSports.com NFL takes cap space from Cowboys, Redskins; teams deny wrong-doing[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I wholly expect the Redskins to file an injunction before 4 PM today.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897082]in theory and principle, i wholeheartedly agree with you. however, i am 99% sure that this is not a matter that can be litigated, so court isnt an option. the skins could probably appeal to goodell and he will just say no. its awful, and im sure the skins will try to fight it somehow, but i'm not sure how. in the end, i dont see this being overturned. the league and players both approved it already. the most i can see happening is goodell allowing the skins and cowboys to spread the hit into 2014, when the cap will increase dramatically due to the new tv deals.[/quote]

What are you basing your belief that they can not fight this in court on? The league is penalized them for contracts that they approved in an UNCAPPED year. This is a slam dunk in court. There is nothing in the CBA that allows them to do this...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897082]in theory and principle, i wholeheartedly agree with you. however, i am 99% sure that this is not a matter that can be litigated, so court isnt an option. the skins could probably appeal to goodell and he will just say no. its awful, and im sure the skins will try to fight it somehow, but i'm not sure how. in the end, i dont see this being overturned. the league and players both approved it already. the most i can see happening is goodell allowing the skins and cowboys to spread the hit into 2014, when the cap will increase dramatically due to the new tv deals.[/quote]

I see it being overturned or significantly mitigated. You are right: this is not really an issue for the courts or for Goodell. It is an issue for the owner's meetings at the end of the month. The owners can (and I expect will) reduce this to something smaller.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=celts32;897101]What are you basing your belief that they can not fight this in court on? The league is penalized them for contracts that they approved in an UNCAPPED year. This is a slam dunk in court. There is nothing in the CBA that allows them to do this...[/quote]

a) the other owners won't want their labor laundry aired in courts. Therefore a threat of a lawsuit alone might make them cave in.
b) Danny and Jerry aren't going to want to bite the NFL hand that feeds

So, whether there are salient legal issues or not, it is unlikely that this will see a courtroom.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I did find this from the Washington Post;

The NFL issued a written statement that said: “The Management Council Executive Committee determined that the contract practices of a small number of clubs during the 2010 league year created an unacceptable risk to future competitive balance, particularly in light of the relatively modest salary cap growth projected for the new agreement’s early years. To remedy these effects and preserve competitive balance throughout the league, the parties to the [collective bargaining agreement] agreed to adjustments to team salary for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. These agreed-upon adjustments were structured in a manner that will not affect the salary cap or player spending on a league-wide basis.”


[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-to-lose-36-million-in-cap-space-over-two-years/2012/03/12/gIQABbe27R_blog.html]Redskins to lose $36 million in cap space over two years [updated] - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

From what was on the nfc east blog on espn.com it really sounds pretty much like collusion of 30 teams & the nfl. Facing pressure from the 30 teams, the nfl took action & got the nflpa to buy in by spreading the cap wealth.

Maybe there's a paper trail from the nfl to the skins FO warning them about some of their contracts. If there isn't, from my ignorant non-anti trust law informed self, this just seems like collusion , the very thing the cba is designed to prevent.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897105]a) the other owners won't want their labor laundry aired in courts. Therefore a threat of a lawsuit alone might make them cave in.
b) Danny and Jerry aren't going to want to bite the NFL hand that feeds

So, whether there are salient legal issues or not, it is unlikely that this will see a courtroom.[/quote]

The other owners just threw Danny & jerry under the bus for nothing. Why on earth would you think that they are just going to bend over and take it for the sake of the greater good? No chance. This is going to court unless the owners cave and give back ever penny of that cap room...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=freddyg12;897112]From what was on the nfc east blog on espn.com it really sounds pretty much like collusion of 30 teams & the nfl. Facing pressure from the 30 teams, the nfl took action & got the nflpa to buy in by spreading the cap wealth.

Maybe there's a paper trail from the nfl to the skins FO warning them about some of their contracts. If there isn't, from my ignorant non-anti trust law informed self, this just seems like collusion , the very thing the cba is designed to prevent.[/quote]

Agreed, just seems odd that the NFL has not come out and issued a statement outright & that you have both teams (Skins and Boys) denying notification.......

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897105]a) the other owners won't want their labor laundry aired in courts. Therefore a threat of a lawsuit alone might make them cave in.
b) Danny and Jerry aren't going to want to bite the NFL hand that feeds

So, whether there are salient legal issues or not, it is unlikely that this will see a courtroom.[/quote]

regarding a), it works both ways. i'm sure the owners have tons of dirty laundry on danny and jerry, so that wouldnt be a factor.

b) i agree with you there. i honestly think the skins and cowboys are going to see if they can talk this out to atleast get it reduced. if not, i think they'll just take their lumps now and hold this in their back pockets until they need a "favor" of some sort.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=celts32;897114]The other owners just threw Danny & jerry under the bus for nothing. Why on earth would you think that they are just going to bend over and take it for the sake of the greater good? No chance. This is going to court unless the owners cave and give back ever penny of that cap room...[/quote]

The other owners did not throw Danny and Jerry under the bus "for nothing." They threw Danny and Jerry under the bus for spite and jealousy.

Once Danny and Jerry have been properly poked in the eye (and start threatening retaliatory lawsuits), the other owners should feel like they got what they wanted (a sense of spiteful revenge) and back down.

My two cents.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897121]The other owners did not throw Danny and Jerry under the bus "for nothing." They threw Danny and Jerry under the bus for spite and jealousy.

Once Danny and Jerry have been properly poked in the eye (and start threatening retaliatory lawsuits), the other owners should feel like they got what they wanted (a sense of spiteful revenge) and back down.

My two cents.[/quote]

I'll second this.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

We are still in top half of league with our cap reduced. I can see why some see this as better.. It means more underrated free agent signings like last year that were good pickups... Nobiggy

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

check out this from a poster on the PFT article:

[URL="http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/league-requires-cowboys-redskins-to-take-half-their-cap-reductions-in-2012/"]http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/league-requires-cowboys-redskins-to-take-half-their-cap-reductions-in-2012/[/URL]

[quote]gurnblanstonreturns says:
Mar 13, 2012 11:22 AM
Whoa, Nellie! Nothing like a good, old-fashioned anti-trust fight to upset Goodell’s hard won decade of labor peace.

As a Redskins fan, my bias in favor of the Redskins is obvious, but does not change the situation. Realitypolice has set forth the facts very clearly. Anyone in need of a refresher course in antitrust issues as they pertain to matters between the owners (as opposed to matters between owners and labor) need only review the Ninth Circuit’s decision upholding the Raiders judgment against the league regarding franchise movement from the early ’80s.

This overreach by Goodell, clearly backed by small-market franchises, including the sacrosanct families such as the Rooneys and Maras, is designed to offset the consequences of the owners’ actions in the labor negotiations of the current CBA. (It surely can be no coincidence that a Mara chairs the relevant committee addressing this issue.) The owners decided to force an early termination of the CBA with the resultant “uncapped” year in their determination to obtain better terms from the players in the next CBA. This tactic proved a smashing success.

Unfortunately for the small-market franchises, an “uncapped” year presented an opportunity to franchises such as the Redskins and Cowboys to address untenable and damaging cap positions. In an effort to subvert the labor negotiations and tilt the process further in their advantage, many owners apparently devised a system of collusion that could be denied publicly and leave no papertrail. By giving multiple “warnings” to some owners that the illegal, unofficial policy of collusion would be enforced after the players had been pressured into accepting the owners’ demands, the owners acted in the classic fashion of a cartel as understood under antitrust law.

The small market franchises have benefitted for years under the socialist tenets of the league’s structure to ensure their ability to compete against wealthier franchises. In fact, these franchises have been so successful in using superior football-related organizations that they have enjoyed tremendous on-field success while the Redskins and Cowboys have endured many years of failure.

Owners such as Snyder and Jones have cooperated with this regime, while chafing at some of its revenue-sharing aspects, in the apparent belief that the NFL’s ultimate success depends upon this unique, socialist structure to avoid the fate of MLB. By poking this hornet’s nest, the owners and Goodell risk this arrangement.

If the league insists upon this punitive enforcement of an illegal collusion to dampen player salaries in the uncapped year, then Snyder and Jones should follow Al Davis’ example and bring an anti-trust suit against the league.

With the facts in their favor, they could very easily force the league’s capitulation in the face of the destruction of the “house of cards” which is the NFL under anti-trust law.

Snyder and Jones should make clear that their forebearance in underwriting the success of the Maras, Rooneys and “stockholders” of Green Bay (and the Super Bowl championships those teams have enjoyed since the mid-90s) is at an end.

If the benefactors of the socialist structure want to assert that they have the right to enforce collusion in the uncapped year, they should be put on notice that Snyder and Jones are willing, and perhaps even anxious, to reverse years of futility by two of the league’s proudest franchises by ushering in a new era of professional football – an era characterized by the survival of the fittest as the Redskins and Cowboys become the NFL’s Red Sox and Yankees. Many Redskins and Cowboys fans could comfort themselves about the dissolution of the “old” NFL by warming themselves in the glow of Red Sox- and Yankee-like rings and trophies.

Hopefully, those who have benefitted so greatly by the socialist structure of the NFL and its one great foray into capitalist hardball (forcing the uncapped year and early termination of the CBA) will recognize the fool-hardiness of seeking to further their advantage by punishing their benefactors for exercising their rights in the uncapped year. Hail!

[/quote]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Wouldn't a competitive advantage be if the Redskins and Cowboys had signed big money free agents and fronted all the guaranteed money in that first year...and isn't that what the Bears did with Peppers?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Drewsky27;897144][B]We are still in top half of league with our cap reduced[/B]. I can see why some see this as better.. It means more underrated free agent signings like last year that were good pickups... Nobiggy[/quote]

According to the Kevin and Thom show on ESPN980, we have about 18m to deal with at THIS moment. That puts us on top of the East with Cap money to spend. Regardless of the plan, I am sure they are scrambling they're ass off at Redskins Park. I am equally confident they can get it done.....

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896985]Personally I think it's insulting to CrazyCanuck that you totally disrespect him with your sig...[/quote]

Good point SS!!

Lol it's all good IRMitchell... but thanks for changing the sig. Not sure if I was insulted but everytime I read one of your posts I did leave with hurt feelings. :(

Ok sorry for the hijack...back to business.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Hog1;897173]According to the Kevin and Thom show on ESPN980, we have about 18m to deal with at THIS moment. That puts us on top of the East with Cap money to spend. Regardless of the plan, I am sure they are scrambling they're ass off at Redskins Park. I am equally confident they can get it done.....[/quote]

we're definitely not in "cap hell" by any stretch of the imagination. however, any way you cut it, we have 18MM less to play with than we would have otherwise had. It definitely affects our plans. we now have to be less aggressive in free agency AND/OR restructure contracts to push money into future years, which then limits our flexibility in future years.

Further complicating matters is the fact that the Skins, by all appearances, were blindsided by the penalty. whatever plans the skins were working on for the past several months are no longer valid. in a very compressed timeframe, they need to come up with, and execute a "Plan B." Is it doable? yes. But i'd be alot more comfortable if the skins had known about this contingency, and planned for it, months ago.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897167]check out this from a poster on the PFT article:

[URL]http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/league-requires-cowboys-redskins-to-take-half-their-cap-reductions-in-2012/[/URL][/quote]

that's awesome! Pretty much articulates what I see this as - collusion between 30 owners & the nfl.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The Cowboys and Giants are likely in "cap hell", although the Giants have let a ton of players go so this may have changed for them.

I had heard the Cowboys were about $4mil under the cap BEFORE this $10mil punishment.

Philly just said they aren't planning any big moves and declined on Landry, so they must not be in great shape.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897105]a) the other owners won't want their labor laundry aired in courts. Therefore a threat of a lawsuit alone might make them cave in.
b) Danny and Jerry aren't going to want to bite the NFL hand that feeds

So, whether there are salient legal issues or not, it is unlikely that this will see a courtroom.[/quote]

Strongly disagree with your point (b). It's the Redskins, Cowboys, and the other big market teams that feed the rest of the NFL. The small market teams are the ones who bit the hand that feeds them and from now on that hand is going to smack them in the mouth whenever it gets the chance to do so.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

listening to espn 980 now and kevin sheehan is talking to their "business analyst" (andrew brant from espn). He said he checked with his sources who said that [B][I]NONE of the six warnings allegedly received were written.[/I][/B] in addition, they didnt come from the league. they came from [B][I]OTHER OWNERS[/I][/B].

so lets think about this - other owners, who were doing the same thing themselves to a lesser degree, verbally told the skins and cowboys not to do what they did, and now the redskins and cowboys are receiving an [B][U]unprecedented [/U][/B] penalty.

The more that comes out of of the more disgusted i am with what transpired.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897179][B]we're definitely not in "cap hell" by any stretch of the imagination. however, any way you cut it, we have 18MM less to play with than we would have otherwise had. It definitely affects our plans.[/B] we now have to be less aggressive in free agency AND/OR restructure contracts to push money into future years, which then limits our flexibility in future years.

Further complicating matters is the fact that the Skins, by all appearances, were blindsided by the penalty. whatever plans the skins were working on for the past several months are no longer valid. in a very compressed timeframe, they need to come up with, and execute a "Plan B." Is it doable? yes. But i'd be alot more comfortable if the skins had known about this contingency, and planned for it, months ago.[/quote]

I regretfully agree with your point. I do think they are not that surprised with the ruling. I believe it is more of a case of.....let's do it and see if what they do? If we get the hammered, we'll go to plan "B".
Listening to 980 in DC right now, the thought is they have known about this for some time and making possible plans to combat it if it could not be defeated.......
Still no good info on the future of this deal....Law suit.....Hitman....Jihad...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897197]listening to espn 980 now and kevin sheehan is talking to their "business analyst" (andrew brant from espn). He said he checked with his sources who said that [B][I]NONE of the six warnings allegedly received were written.[/I][/B] in addition, they didnt come from the league. they came from [B][I]OTHER OWNERS[/I][/B].

so lets think about this - other owners, who were doing the same thing themselves to a lesser degree, verbally told the skins and cowboys not to do what they did, and now the redskins and cowboys are receiving an [B][U]unprecedented [/U][/B] penalty.

The more that comes out of of the more disgusted i am with what transpired.[/quote]

Ha! Wow! If the other owners can simply just come crying to the league office and office does something like this, what would stop these same cry babies from trying to do worse to these teams? I don't see how law suits can be avoided at this point.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;897170]Wouldn't a competitive advantage be if the Redskins and Cowboys had signed big money free agents and fronted all the guaranteed money in that first year...and isn't that what the Bears did with Peppers?[/quote]

I agree with this. It's not like we used the money to bring in a bunch of free agents in 2010. We just pushed future money to the present on the garbage we had already signed previously.

The Bears on the other hand used 2010 to bring in a brand new FA Peppers. They dumped $35M of his money into the uncapped year. Would they have been able to bring in Peppers without the uncapped year? Maybe but definitely not as easily.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsguy;897210]Ha! Wow! If the other owners can simply just come crying to the league office and office does something like this, what would stop these same cry babies from trying to do worse to these teams? I don't see how law suits can be avoided at this point.[/quote]

even if a lawsuit was pursued and the skins and cowboys won, it wouldnt help us now. we WILL miss out on free agents NOW and that can't be undone. theres simply no point in pursuing litigation, even if it were an option.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst]Cap controversy shows NFL at its worst - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Graziano FTW once again.