Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1060810]Not at 12-13mil/yr.[/quote]

Who says he wants that??

I don't see anyone giving him that much anyway.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

per Fanspeak

There is a list of possible cuts that would add $17 million of cap space

Cuts include :

DL Bowen, Carriker, Golston
OL everyone but Trent
Paulson

etc...

Plus the rule of 51 could add anther 1 or 2 million

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1060725]Free agency hasn't even started and all is lost with Rak?

Can't blame him for wanting to test the market and see what's out there.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure we'll offer him a good contract.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060818]per Fanspeak

There is a list of possible cuts that would add $17 million of cap space

Cuts include :

DL Bowen, Carriker, Golston
OL everyone but Trent
Paulson

etc...

Plus the rule of 51 could add anther 1 or 2 million[/quote]

Agree with Bowen and Carriker. Paulsen is a decent player who doesn't cost much so I don't know why he should be cut.

Get serious about the OL. If we're lucky, we might be able to upgrade two OL positions between FA and the draft. I doubt it though because we're going to need to work on the defense and ST.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1060742]This is a 25-30 rank defense, we need alot of players. There are alot of upgrades in free agency that aren't big names. Spend alot of cap money to resign our own, and where does that get us? Need to bring in guys to compete, and not overpay guys that aren't making an impact.[/quote]

Yes! That is exactly right.
Lavar Arrington said it right, you do not pay top dollar to Rak who does not take over games and is not a game changer. He disappears at time. Arrington called Rak undiciplined in his play and that is right. Funny Arrington was same way. Drove coaches crazy.
Rak is a top 10 LB, but closer to 10 than top 5. If you know what I mean. Do not pay him big money. We will regret it.

[url]http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=34OLB[/url]

Interesting that after the top 5 the salary drops pretty quickly. I think you offer Rak a nice 8-9mill contract with a solid guarantee which would be top.5 once Ware gets cut or takes a paycut. If he wants to test it above that ok. I wouldn't be surprised if the Skins are offering closer to 7 though.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Defensewins;1060822]Yes! That is exactly right.
Lavar Arrington said it right, you do not pay top dollar to Rak who does not take over games and is not a game changer. He disappears at time. Arrington called Rak undiciplined in his play and that is right. Funny Arrington was same way. Drove coaches crazy.
Rak is a top 10 LB, but closer to 10 than top 5. If you know what I mean. Do not pay him big money. We will regret it.[/quote]

And what will we do when he signs elsewhere for pennies (relatively) more who is our stud backup who can come in and start for him ?

Kerigan and Orakpo were living in the backfield against green bay and the eagles at the beginning of the year but teams realized they could neutralize our pass rush with the quick passing game which we couldn't counter ...

Yes we need to upgrade the MLB and secondary but I dont think the best way to do that is free agency ... the way you avoid expensive mistakes is by resigning your own, you know most about them, and realistically is there going to be anyone better we could bring in via free agency, the names I have heard banded around would cost $$$$ but are free agents for a reason ...

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mattyk;1060811]Who says he wants that??

I don't see anyone giving him that much anyway.[/quote]

kiem on 980. that's what he "wants" anyways. we don't know what he'd accept, but it looks like the market is going to decide. i'd just franchise him and use the time to get a deal done, cause this FA market isn't team friendly in terms of what he'll be able to get.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

What about the stat that showed Rak averaged more sacks per rush. Yes, other linebackers had more sacks than him but they also rushed the passer 100 more times than he did. Pay that man!!!! Hazmzat is going to rush Rak and Kerrigan a lot more this year.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1060742]This is a 25-30 rank defense, we need alot of players. There are alot of upgrades in free agency that aren't big names. Spend alot of cap money to resign our own, and where does that get us? Need to bring in guys to compete, and not overpay guys that aren't making an impact.[/quote]

I definitely understand your reasoning. I feel the same way except that I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. Those who have underperformed their contracts or who have shown that they can't help us win should be shown the door. On the other hand, not everyone on our defense played poorly and, so far, the Skins haven't re-signed anyone who can't help us, IMO.

The Skins need to create more cap room by cutting Carriker and Bowen. That will save over $5MM. These are players who can easily be replaced, IMO. Like you, I think most of the players on our defense can be replaced by better, possibly cheaper, players in FA. The bar isn't very high.

My fear is that our mediocre (at best) DC is comfortable in his mediocrity and will lobby to keep mediocre players that he is comfortable with, which would, of course, doom us to another season of poor defensive play and losing.

Haslett is still here due to the buddy system. Let's just hope that the buddy system doesn't apply to the players, as well.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=That Guy;1060833]kiem on 980. that's what he "wants" anyways. we don't know what he'd accept, but it looks like the market is going to decide. i'd just franchise him and use the time to get a deal done, cause this FA market isn't team friendly in terms of what he'll be able to get.[/quote]

Yeah asking price and reality are two different things.

I think something will get done.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mattyk;1060854]Yeah asking price and reality are two different things.

I think something will get done.[/quote]What do you think would be reasonable for each side (skins vs. Rak) to start out trying for?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1060858]What do you think would be reasonable for each side (skins vs. Rak) to start out trying for?[/quote]

He should end up in the neighborhood of $10 or $11M a year. I'm just going off the fact his franchise # is $11M.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060821]Agree with Bowen and Carriker. Paulsen is a decent player who doesn't cost much so I don't know why he should be cut.

Get serious about the OL. If we're lucky, we might be able to upgrade two OL positions between FA and the draft. I doubt it though because we're going to need to work on the defense and ST.[/quote]

They have enough cap space for 2 or 3 OL, and getting 2 in the draft is possible. Also, there is a chance Compton might contribute as well.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060865]They have enough cap space for 2 or 3 OL, and getting 2 in the draft is possible. [B]Also, there is a chance Compton might contribute as well.[/B][/quote]

I hope so, i've been holding on to these NWA references for awhile.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=bedlamVR;1060824]And what will we do when he signs elsewhere for pennies (relatively) more who is our stud backup who can come in and start for him ?

Kerigan and Orakpo were living in the backfield against green bay and the eagles at the beginning of the year but teams realized they could neutralize our pass rush with the quick passing game which we couldn't counter ...

Yes we need to upgrade the MLB and secondary but I dont think the best way to do that is free agency ... the way you avoid expensive mistakes is by resigning your own, you know most about them, and realistically is there going to be anyone better we could bring in via free agency, the names I have heard banded around would cost $$$$ but are free agents for a reason ...[/quote]

Fact is in 2012 we won and made the playoffs without Rak and without a stud backup. Our Redskins world would did not come to an end if Rak leaves.
I agree it would be nice to keep Rak at the right price, but he will not accept that price.
I also agree we do know what we have with our veterans and IMO Rak is not work $8m or more a year, much less $11M.
The great point Evilgrin makes is we were bottom of the NFL in defense last year so why would we pay a guy 1/3 of our available cap space ($11M) when we have so many other needs.
We will stay a sorry, bottom half, crappy ass team if we do not fix the Secondary and Offensive Line first. But hey you want to pay $11M a year for 10 sacks, that is your choice and I will agree to disagree. The leading sack getter on the SB Champion Seattle team was Micheal Bennett with 8.5 sacks. Proving you can have a dominate defense with out a top sack guy. Seattle did lead the NFl in interceptions by a wide margin. Fix our secondary and offensive line first please.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1060866]I hope so, i've been holding on to these NWA references for awhile.[/quote]

Good one!

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060818]per Fanspeak

There is a list of possible cuts that would add $17 million of cap space

Cuts include :

DL Bowen, Carriker, Golston
[B][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Purple"]OL everyone but Trent[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]
Paulson

etc...

Plus the rule of 51 could add anther 1 or 2 million[/quote]

Please be right about that..... it needs to be done.
:Flush:

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-free-agent-list--defensive-and-special-teams-players-055219169-nfl.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

Rak is ranked as the #1 linebacker in this FA ranking list. If that is true in reality, I would hate for this to turn into another Antonio Pierce/Ryan Clark situation.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=mooby;1060876][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-free-agent-list--defensive-and-special-teams-players-055219169-nfl.html"]Y! SPORTS[/URL]

Rak is ranked as the #1 linebacker in this FA ranking list. If that is true in reality, I would hate for this to turn into another Antonio Pierce/Ryan Clark situation.[/quote]

He's near the top of every ranking list I've seen... yet some people don't seem to think he's worth big money. A guy that can get you double digit sacks all while not rushing the passer nearly as often as some of the other big names in the league.

Fact is he's going to get paid. No reason it shouldn't be here with our cap room, especially with the cap going up to $133M.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=mooby;1060876][url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-free-agent-list--defensive-and-special-teams-players-055219169-nfl.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

Rak is ranked as the #1 linebacker in this FA ranking list. If that is true in reality, I would hate for this to turn into another Antonio Pierce/Ryan Clark situation.[/quote]

I miss Clark on the field but I'm relieved we don't have him any more for the off-field comments he's been making...some really stupid stuff pouring out of his mouth on every issue. The DC media would have a field day with him...it gets largely ignored when he says it from Pittsburgh though.


Matty's right, we HAVE THE MONEY to keep one of our best players. Why would we consider letting him even get the chance to talk to another team?

This is not a typical FA year, we have a huge influx of spending room because we're coming off of that penalty.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I expect Rak will get paid his market value and it will be from us.

I expect we go hard after D'Qwell Jackson while signing Riley to a comfortable contract.

I expect we let Jackson test the market to see if he can land a starting gig somewhere.

I expect Morgan, Wilson, Carriker, Bowen, Chester and Lichtensteiger will be released.
(Yesterday, thought Carriker/Bowen was an either/or with the nod going to Bowen - completely forgot about his microfracture surgery. Both will be gone with Baker, Jenkins starting and cheaper journeyman coming in for rotation - DL will be Baker, Jenkins, Cofield, Nield, Worthington, Gholston or TBD UFA)

I expect we have a couple of safeties whose names DON'T rhyme with "Wyrd" that we will be pursuing.

I expect Aquib Talib will be a Redskin.



I expect the Redskins cheerleaders will be smoking hot.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mattyk;1060877]He's near the top of every ranking list I've seen... yet some people don't seem to think he's worth big money. A guy that can get you double digit sacks all while not rushing the passer nearly as often as some of the other big names in the league.

Fact is he's going to get paid. No reason it shouldn't be here with our cap room, especially with the cap going up to $133M.[/quote]

Hayesworth had good stats too, 8.5 sacks the year before the Redskins signed him. Orakpo will probably get 5 years,and $60+ million.

If possible, I would franchise Orakpo, and trade him for a late 2014 pick .

Then spend the money on Lamar Houston, or Arthur Jones, and get a pass rush from the front 3.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I'm not sure D'Qwell Jackson would be a good signing, as he's 30 years old and his play has been declining the last few years. I expect us to make at least a small push for him, but I think he'll be asking for a lot more than he's worth. I know, London Fletcher...but Jackson is nowhere close to Fletcher's level.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060897]I'm not sure D'Qwell Jackson would be a good signing, as he's 30 years old and his play has been declining the last few years. I expect us to make at least a small push for him, but I think he'll be asking for a lot more than he's worth. I know, London Fletcher...but Jackson is nowhere close to Fletcher's level.[/quote]

If you look at the career numbers for the two players, they are nearly identical.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060896]Hayesworth had good stats too, 8.5 sacks the year before the Redskins signed him. Orakpo will probably get 5 years,and $60+ million.

If possible, I would franchise Orakpo, and trade him for a late 2014 pick .

Then spend the money on Lamar Houston, or Arthur Jones, and get a pass rush from the front 3.[/quote]

I wouldn't even know where to start in response to this post.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Trade Orakpo for a LATE PICK?

Oh my.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060907]If you look at the career numbers for the two players, they are nearly identical.[/quote]

Well, "nearly identical" leaves a lot of room. Fletcher averaged considerably more tackles a year, both solo and assisted, as well as more sacks and more INTs. I hope you're not arguing the fact that Fletcher is the superior player, because if so you lose a lot of respect.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/d'qwelljackson/2506889/careerstats]D'Qwell Jackson: Career Stats at NFL.com[/url]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/londonfletcher/2500650/careerstats]London Fletcher: Career Stats at NFL.com[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Jackson is a good player, hence the multiple meetings with teams less than 2 days after being released with many others trying to schedule (including us). Jackson will have multiple offers to chose from.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060913]Well, "nearly identical" leaves a lot of room. Fletcher averaged considerably more tackles a year, both solo and assisted, as well as more sacks and more INTs. I hope you're not arguing the fact that Fletcher is the superior player, because if so you lose a lot of respect.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/d'qwelljackson/2506889/careerstats]D'Qwell Jackson: Career Stats at NFL.com[/url]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/londonfletcher/2500650/careerstats]London Fletcher: Career Stats at NFL.com[/url][/quote]

Forget the comparison if it makes you feel better. Just look at the last three seasons for D'Qwell. What's wrong with that level of production? He could help us.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1060912]Trade Orakpo for a LATE PICK?

Oh my.[/quote]

Hell, that's nothing compared to his equating re-signing Orakpo to the signing of Haynesworthless.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1060912]Trade Orakpo for a LATE PICK?

Oh my.[/quote]


if you franchise him, can you even trade him ? That is why I said a late pick. I would trade him for a first in a heartbeat .

We will see how productive Orakpo is when he gets a big long term guaranteed contact.

[B]scratch Donald Butler from your list of possibilities, he resigned with SD[/B]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060918]Forget the comparison if it makes you feel better. Just look at the last three seasons for D'Qwell. What's wrong with that level of production? He could help us.[/quote]

Sure, he could help us. But as I said in post #544, he'll probably be asking too much, considering his recent decline in performance.


On a different note:

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000329845/article/report-greg-hardy-panthers-talk-longterm-contract]Report: Greg Hardy, Panthers talk long-term contract - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

You can franchise him if you trade him, not if you transition tag him

I'd let him test the market and wouldn't bring him back for more than $10 million, preferably $8 million.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060896]Hayesworth had good stats too, 8.5 sacks the year before the Redskins signed him. Orakpo will probably get 5 years,and $60+ million.

If possible, I would franchise Orakpo, and trade him for a late 2014 pick .

Then spend the money on Lamar Houston, or Arthur Jones, and get a pass rush from the front 3.[/quote]

Haynesworth was a known "slacker". I don't think Orakpo's motivation has ever been questioned.

So you would convert a 1st rounder, who has played and earned franchise tag consideration, into a late pick a couple of years later?

I am curious, what do you think the Skins best and worst moves of the last 10 years was? Not trying to knock you, just curiosity. Also curious what your thought of the best and worst moves that don't involve the Skins at all.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060921]if you franchise him, can you even trade him ? That is why I said a late pick. I would trade him for a first in a heartbeat .

[COLOR="Red"]We will see how productive Orakpo is when he gets a big long term guaranteed contact[/COLOR].[/quote]

Why would you think he wouldn't be?
I would think he would get better.
And for that matter you could say that about every decent FA in the NFL.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060897]I'm not sure D'Qwell Jackson would be a good signing, as he's 30 years old and his play has been declining the last few years. I expect us to make at least a small push for him, but I think he'll be asking for a lot more than he's worth. I know, London Fletcher...but Jackson is nowhere close to Fletcher's level.[/quote]

Declining?!? The guy had 141 tackles last year. The only year he hasn't had over 100 tackles since 2006 was 2009 when he only played 6 games. Not sure where your logic is there. He'd be a solid plug and play linebacker for another couple years.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1060927]Declining?!? The guy had 141 tackles last year. The only year he hasn't had over 100 tackles since 2006 was 2009 when he only played 6 games. Not sure where your logic is there. He'd be a solid plug and play linebacker for another couple years.[/quote]

I can play the stats game too. :Smoker: He had 2 fewer sacks and 1 less INT last year than he did in 2012.

But beyond that, his run defense has declined substantially since 2011. PFF had him ranked as the 4th worst run stopper among the 40 qualifying ILBs last season. He would be a good addition, though, as long as the price is right. Draft Shayne Skov or Christian Jones in the 3rd or 4th to wait behind him and hopefully start in a few years.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1060924]Haynesworth was a known "slacker". I don't think Orakpo's motivation has ever been questioned.

So you would convert a 1st rounder, who has played and earned franchise tag consideration, into a late pick a couple of years later?

I am curious, what do you think the Skins best and worst moves of the last 10 years was? Not trying to knock you, just curiosity. Also curious what your thought of the best and worst moves that don't involve the Skins at all.[/quote]

1) It is inevitable that anyone who gets a big long term contract will be less determined... there are plenty of players with big contracts being cut due to lower production or injury

2) You did not see my follow up regarding trading Orakpo. [B]IF you can franchise him, and trade him I would[/B] I know he is worth more than a late round pick...I would take as high a pick as I can get.... as a last resort I would take a late pick instead of nothing

3) The list of Redskins mistakes over the last 10 years is to long to post here. A few examples:

Kevin Barnes as a 3rd round pick, anyone who saw him at MD knew that was a mistake.

McNabb trade

WRs Thomas, and Kelly draft choices.

Plenty of free-agent signings Fat Albert, J Morgan,T Jackson, Jamal Brown.

Recent draft choices, trading up for LeRebius ?, small RBs Thompson and Jameson, OLB Jenkins ?

Good picks P. Thomas, Jordan, and Cousins

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Greg Hardy off the market...

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10533987]NFL Greg Hardy gets franchise tag - ESPN[/url]