Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1100631]Trading RGIII is [U]not[/U] the answer to the Skins offensive problems. Continuing to work with him to help him get better and putting better players around him might be the answer.

1. Hire a QB coach.

2. Get in FA or trade for:

- A RB who is already a good pass protector. He doesn't need to be a star. We just need to make sure we have someone who can do this well.

- A big TE who is known to be a very good blocker.

- One starter quality OG.

3. Draft the best OT in the entire draft in Round 1.

4. [B]Jay Gruden needs to spend time with Robert one-on-one in a relaxed environment studying film together and getting to know one another better. They need to do a vulcan mind meld so that Robert knows the offense and Jay's offensive philosophy so well that the HC is practically on the field with him. I see no reason why they shouldn't do this.[/B] I hear that they practically live across the street from one another. They could do it at one of their homes while their families visit.

I'm sure there are more things that could be done for Robert and the other QB's, but I think the things I listed would be a good start.[/quote]

The new CBA rules don't allow for the player and coach to spen time with each other talking football, practicing, watching film and playbook study until April or something like that.... its BS

I agree with your assessments though.

Bill Polian said to put QB on a card and put that card into a drawer and forget about it. He says QB is the least of our issues, the "atrocious" defense and Oline need to be fixed before we can even evaluate the play of the QB. I completely agree with him.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1100631]Trading RGIII is [U]not[/U] the answer to the Skins offensive problems. Continuing to work with him to help him get better and putting better players around him might be the answer.

1. Hire a QB coach.

2. Get in FA or trade for:

- A RB who is already a good pass protector. He doesn't need to be a star. We just need to make sure we have someone who can do this well.

- A big TE who is known to be a very good blocker.

- One starter quality OG.

3. Draft the best OT in the entire draft in Round 1.

4. Jay Gruden needs to spend time with Robert one-on-one in a relaxed environment studying film together and getting to know one another better. They need to do a vulcan mind meld so that Robert knows the offense and Jay's offensive philosophy so well that the HC is practically on the field with him. I see no reason why they shouldn't do this. I hear that they practically live across the street from one another. They could do it at one of their homes while their families visit.

I'm sure there are more things that could be done for Robert and the other QB's, but I think the things I listed would be a good start.[/quote]

This would be "coddling" RG3 even more. Why would he get special treatment over the other QB's? Even if Gruden did this, the other QB's would have to be involved in this "one on one" time.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1100639]The new CBA rules don't allow for the player and coach to spen time with each other talking football, practicing, watching film and playbook study until April or something like that.... its BS

I agree with your assessments though.

Bill Polian said to put QB on a card and put that card into a drawer and forget about it. He says QB is the least of our issues, the "atrocious" defense and Oline need to be fixed before we can even evaluate the play of the QB. I completely agree with him.[/quote]

It's nice to know that we're thinking like Bill Polian on this issue, isn't it? Now, if if Dan Snyder would just hire Bill Polian to build our team I'd feel better about the future.

My problem with Jay Gruden regarding RGIII is that I suspect that Gruden is looking for an easy way out of his responsibility to develop RGIII. The reason I have a problem with that is because I think I see something extraordinary in RGIII that can to be brought out of him. I just can't stand the idea that Robert could develop into a true franchise QB somewhere else.

Again, I think it needs to be made abundantly clear to Jay Gruden by higher management that both he and RGIII will be with the team next season and that Gruden is [U]still[/U] expected to mould RGIII into a good starting QB. He needs to be told that nothing has changed from when he first took the job in respect to his responsibility for RGIII's development.

If Jay doesn't like that then Dan Snyder should just tell Jay that it's tough shit for him that the job of developing RGIII is harder than it may have looked to him from the outside. After all, that's why Jay is getting paid the big bucks.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1100639]The new CBA rules don't allow for the player and coach to spen time with each other talking football, practicing, watching film and playbook study until April or something like that.... its BS

I agree with your assessments though.

Bill Polian said to put QB on a card and put that card into a drawer and forget about it. He says QB is the least of our issues, the "atrocious" defense and Oline need to be fixed before we can even evaluate the play of the QB. I completely agree with him.[/quote]

I would agree with Polian as well. Maybe Snyder can lure him out of the booth and hire him as a consultant. Snyder loved to hire consultants back in the day. lol.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Polian is 72. Can probably still get it done........but getting a little long in the tooth

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1100648]I would agree with Polian as well. Maybe Snyder can lure him out of the booth and hire him as a consultant. Snyder loved to hire consultants back in the day. lol.[/quote]

Good idea! Polian could call offensive plays from the booth for the Maroon and Yellow, as well.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Interesting read:

[url=http://realredskins.com/2014/12/19/analyzing-the-cap-numbers-of-the-redskins-rg3-options/?ocid=yahoo]Analyzing the cap numbers of the Redskins’ RG3 options | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1100562]Because it doesn't fit his narrative he's been pushing that it's all Gruden and the OL's fault, when the reality of it is that it's his hero's fault. Even Cooley mentions that when fans look at it, they'll just blame the OL, but not the professionals and people that know.
[/quote]

Actually Cooley mentions that pretty much all of RG3's mistakes are coachable

He says he doesn't think RG3 is dumb or unable to do the things necessary, he just freezes up and is unable to react fast enough, that he does very well when he has enough time.

So why isn't Gruden coaching to those issues?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1100647]It's nice to know that we're thinking like Bill Polian on this issue, isn't it? Now, if if Dan Snyder would just hire Bill Polian to build our team I'd feel better about the future.

My problem with Jay Gruden regarding RGIII is that I suspect that Gruden is looking for an easy way out of his responsibility to develop RGIII. The reason I have a problem with that is because I think I see something extraordinary in RGIII that can to be brought out of him. I just can't stand the idea that Robert could develop into a true franchise QB somewhere else.

Again, I think it needs to be made abundantly clear to Jay Gruden by higher management that both he and RGIII will be with the team next season and that Gruden is [U]still[/U] expected to mould RGIII into a good starting QB. He needs to be told that nothing has changed from when he first took the job in respect to his responsibility for RGIII's development.

If Jay doesn't like that then Dan Snyder should just tell Jay that it's tough shit for him that the job of developing RGIII is harder than it may have looked to him from the outside. After all, that's why Jay is getting paid the big bucks.[/quote]

Totes agree with this. It's not the best case scenario, that would be hiring a quality pro HC. But if Snyder has committed to Gruden into next year, I hope Snyder/FO forced him to at least try doing his job.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

The new CBA does hinder the relationship and work between Jay Gruden and RG3. I mentioned before that RG should seek a new QB coach that he can work with in the offseason. George Whitfield Jr has worked with both Cam Newton and Andrew Luck.

Gruden should hire a QB coach in the offseason. Like many first time HC's he took on too many responsibilities IMO. He should seek tot hire a coach that can help develop the QB's full time. I'd suggest Doug Williams, he has been a head coach for years at Grambling and knows how to play the role.

The number one priority should be to address the line in the offseason. I said before Mike Iupati should be free agent target number 1. I also think that if you want to fix RG3 get a vet QB to hold down the starting spot while he learns the position.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1100664]Actually Cooley mentions that pretty much all of RG3's mistakes are coachable

He says he doesn't think RG3 is dumb or unable to do the things necessary, he just freezes up and is unable to react fast enough, that he does very well when he has enough time.

So why isn't Gruden coaching to those issues?[/quote]

Did you listen to the rest of the analysis?

He said that in the same breakdown when he compared Griffin's sack rate to McCoy's and Cousins'.

If you did, you already have your answer according to the guru of everything Redskins.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1100647]It's nice to know that we're thinking like Bill Polian on this issue, isn't it? Now, if if Dan Snyder would just hire Bill Polian to build our team I'd feel better about the future.

My problem with Jay Gruden regarding RGIII is that I suspect that Gruden is looking for an easy way out of his responsibility to develop RGIII. The reason I have a problem with that is because I think I see something extraordinary in RGIII that can to be brought out of him. I just can't stand the idea that Robert could develop into a true franchise QB somewhere else.

Again, I think it needs to be made abundantly clear to Jay Gruden by higher management that both he and RGIII will be with the team next season and that Gruden is [U]still[/U] expected to mould RGIII into a good starting QB. He needs to be told that nothing has changed from when he first took the job in respect to his responsibility for RGIII's development.

If Jay doesn't like that then Dan Snyder should just tell Jay that it's tough shit for him that the job of developing RGIII is harder than it may have looked to him from the outside. After all, that's why Jay is getting paid the big bucks.[/quote]

I wonder what the conversation during the interview between the FO and Gruden was like. I feel like there is a disconnect between the expectations and I would like to know where that disconnect lies. I have a hard time believing the FO wouldn't ask Gruden what his expectations for the offense are and how he plans to implement them. The product on the field suggests one of the two parties was not clear with the other.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

at the time of accepting the job and all that guaranteed cash money, i dont think gruden ever suspected RG3 would be this far behind at the basics of being an NFL qb.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

It says volumes about the trash caliber of this coaching staff that franchises around the league, division rivals especially, continue to state publicly 1) the talent they see in RG 2) the hope/desire they somehow land him.

I mean contrast is just startling. Gruden schemes and calls plays that maximize his teams weaknesses and minimizes strengths, and then goes on to talk shit about the franchise QB. Meanwhile the competition knows what we have and can't wait to get their hands on it.

How anybody is defending Gruden at this point just floors me. I thought he seemed like a solid guy, just not HC material. Now he looks like a moron and an asshole.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I agree. good coaches will change the scheme to their players strength's until he can get them coached up or replaced and not through players under the bus

[quote=Rotten1980;1100677]It says volumes about the trash caliber of this coaching staff that franchises around the league, division rivals especially, continue to state publicly 1) the talent they see in RG 2) the hope/desire they somehow land him.

I mean contrast is just startling. Gruden schemes and calls plays that maximize his teams weaknesses and minimizes strengths, and then goes on to talk shit about the franchise QB. Meanwhile the competition knows what we have and can't wait to get their hands on it.

How anybody is defending Gruden at this point just floors me. I thought he seemed like a solid guy, just not HC material. Now he looks like a moron and an asshole.[/quote]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100677][B]It says volumes about the trash caliber of this coaching staff that franchises around the league, division rivals especially, continue to state publicly 1) the talent they see in RG 2) the hope/desire they somehow land him. [/B]

[/quote]

Who's saying that though? I have yet to see any division rivals, or any team for that matter, say that they have hope/desire to land RG3. Sure they might say he's talented, but when has an NFL team ever come out and said a player is not talented enough to play in the NFL? That's bad for business. Also if your example is Bill Polian, I need more than that. One guy (who's pretty much a talking head at this point in his career) saying the rest of our team sucks is not a ringing endorsement of his talents.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Sorry man I was being lazy. There's a few articles with Chip Kelly saying he'd love to have RG in philly. Before that Jones in Dallas.

But my point is really about what we're witnessing here. The coaching might be the worst I've ever seen in pro football. A few are coming to the only logical explanation Gruden is trying to get fired.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100685]Sorry man I was being lazy. There's a few articles with Chip Kelly saying he'd love to have RG in philly. Before that Jones in Dallas.

But my point is really about what we're witnessing here. The coaching might be the worst I've ever seen in pro football. A few are coming to the only logical explanation Gruden is trying to get fired.[/quote]

They never said that.. I saw those articles

Jones aid RG3 is athletically gifted. It's called praise and not putting any bulletin board talk up.

Nobody would trade anymore than a 5th for RG3 right now

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1100450]Hey guys I'm new to this forum..Is smoot really got this inside info??[/quote]

He's a two-faced apple. Don't believe anything he says. ;)

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Best thing they can do for RGIII or for himself during the offseason, is to hire an ex-QB or coach and immerse himself on how to play in the pocket. Learn the timing, awareness, footwork, etc. he's got 7-8 months to learn that shit if he wants to succeed.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=over the mountain;1100674]at the time of accepting the job and all that guaranteed cash money, i dont think gruden ever suspected RG3 would be this far behind at the basics of being an NFL qb.[/quote]

As I said before, that's just tough shit for him, isn't it?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1100689]Best thing they can do for RGIII or for himself during the offseason, is to hire an ex-QB or coach and immerse himself on how to play in the pocket. Learn the timing, awareness, footwork, etc. he's got 7-8 months to learn that shit if he wants to succeed.[/quote]

That's what he did last offseason.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1100692]As I said before, that's just tough shit for him, isn't it?[/QUOTE]


Lol. Thats alittle harsh. Its tough shit for Griff really. I mean I think we are all surprised by his ineffectiveness. All last year we were giving him a pass on the mechanics. Thinking it was due to the injury. What is the excuse now?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1100695]That's what he did last offseason.[/QUOTE]


Yeah really. Going into year four and we are hoping he can learn...."the basics"? Ruh Rho.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I have not heard many people singing Robert's praises lately in fact just the opposite. Also why is the term "coached up" being thrown around? I would settle for them just being coached to their ability then I'll worry about overachieving.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1100702]I have not heard many people singing Robert's praises lately in fact just the opposite. Also why is the term "coached up" being thrown around? I would settle for them just being coached to their ability then I'll worry about overachieving.[/QUOTE]


The key words there are "their ability". Im afraid this roster is lacking in that area. You are seeing what their ability is. Shanahan built his team and after 4 years they were a 3-13 team. Gruden simply inherited this team. I would like to believe that another offseason can change things, but is he going to be subject to another round of snyder and allen killing a draft?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100677]It says volumes about the trash caliber of this coaching staff that franchises around the league, division rivals especially, continue to state publicly 1) the talent they see in RG 2) the hope/desire they somehow land him.

I mean contrast is just startling. Gruden schemes and calls plays that maximize his teams weaknesses and minimizes strengths, and then goes on to talk shit about the franchise QB. Meanwhile the competition knows what we have and can't wait to get their hands on it.

How anybody is defending Gruden at this point just floors me. I thought he seemed like a solid guy, just not HC material. Now he looks like a moron and an asshole.[/quote]

That is the cheapest statement in the NFL this week because there is no skin in the game.

What is the trade value right now to the eagles or anybody else for our "franchise" qb?

5th or 6th round?

Can't wait for the mega trade offers to roll in after the season. (This is a sarcastic statement because his current trade value is nil.)

The only person who can fix Griffin right now is Griffin. I sincerely hope he realizes he needs fixing. Would love for him to spend every waking hour between now and next camp learning the position the offense, the basic concepts that a third year professional football quarterback should know.

Would love for him to come in next year and earn a franchise tag for 16. It's on him.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

^ like button

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I'll take Chip Kelly's and Jerry Jones' word over Gruden's any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, and so will the rest of the pro football world. It doesn't mean they'll overreach to acquire him, mostly because the dumpster fire coaching staff in DC has done everything in its power to diminish RG's value. Right now legit HC and FO's around the league are watching with interest to see if Redskins Park is stupid enough to follow a historically bad HC into the abyss, jettisoning a talented young QB who hasn't even had the benefit of QB coach in his 3rd season for fuck sakes.

Perspective is paramount here. Gruden is the guy who was given every opportunity in Cincy, elite defense backing him up, way above average talent on offense. But he always found a way to blow it, usually by getting cute and forcing the passing game when the run had been the key to success. Meanwhile Kelly and Jones & Co are vying for the division title.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

^^^^ Andy Dalton blew it in Cinci, Gruden can't throw the passes or read the defenses for these guys, get your head outta the clouds.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Meks;1100710]^^^^ Andy Dalton blew it in Cinci, Gruden can't throw the passes or read the defenses for these guys, get your head outta the clouds.[/quote]

If you have inside information Dalton called his own plays, or even worse changed the plays called, the football world deserves to see it. Cincy dominated the first half running the football and controlling the clock. They came out the 2nd half with a lead and totally gave up on the run, inexplicably. Football analysts discussed this widely. The same pattern of Grudens offense has been discussed.

Do you know something those guys don't? Or just making stuff up?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100711]If you have inside information Dalton called his own plays, or even worse changed the plays called, the football world deserves to see it. Cincy dominated the first half running the football and controlling the clock. They came out the 2nd half with a lead and totally gave up on the run, inexplicably. Football analysts discussed this widely. The same pattern of Grudens offense has been discussed.

Do you know something those guys don't? Or just making stuff up?[/quote]

Actually. Dalton was given the option of 3 plays at the line and change to his will. It was something Gruden had but hasn't installed here for obvious reasons.

You taking the praises of a few people just smiling for the media is what is wrong with some of the fair weather fans around here

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=punch it in;1100696]Lol. Thats alittle harsh. Its tough shit for Griff really. I mean I think we are all surprised by his ineffectiveness. All last year we were giving him a pass on the mechanics. Thinking it was due to the injury. What is the excuse now?[/quote]

They have to work together to make Griffin a better QB. It's not about excuses; it's about moving forward together. I think they need to give it one more year together. Then we'll see where we are with Griffin.

If I say that Gruden needs to work with Griffin longer rather than trying to write him off so quickly, that doesn't mean that Griffin is off the hook. In fact, Griffin must do most of the work, by far.

Gruden is the HC. When I say he needs to do more to try to develop RGIII, I mean that he is responsible for getting it done. That doesn't mean that he does all or even anywhere near all the hands-on work himself. He has an OC to whom he can delegate part of the work and he needs to get smart and hire a QB coach to do part of the work, as well.

Holding an NFL Head Coach's feet to the fire is not harsh, it's business. When I faced difficult problems as a young business manager, my boss often just told me to "Fix it!". That was fair. I signed up for it. I could do it. It was just hard to do.

That pithy message from above should apply to Gruden, as well. I believe that part of what he signed up for was to fix RGIII. So now, I'm simply saying that he should do his job, even if it's harder than he thought it would be, and "Fix him!".

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100709]I'll take Chip Kelly's and Jerry Jones' word over Gruden's any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, and so will the rest of the pro football world. It doesn't mean they'll overreach to acquire him, mostly because the dumpster fire coaching staff in DC has done everything in its power to diminish RG's value. Right now legit HC and FO's around the league are watching with interest to see if Redskins Park is stupid enough to follow a historically bad HC into the abyss, jettisoning a talented young QB who hasn't even had the benefit of QB coach in his 3rd season for fuck sakes.

Perspective is paramount here. Gruden is the guy who was given every opportunity in Cincy, elite defense backing him up, way above average talent on offense. But he always found a way to blow it, usually by getting cute and forcing the passing game when the run had been the key to success. Meanwhile Kelly and Jones & Co are vying for the division title.[/quote]

I think you are choosing points to fit your narrative while ignoring those that don't. The Bengals won their division in 2012 and 2013 so it is not like Gruden hasn't had success with his offense. The AFC North is also a more challenging division to win than our NFC East. Dalton progressed every season from year one to year three improving his numbers. His numbers have dropped this year.

Kelly and the Eagles won the division last year, but lost to a notoriously bad road playoff team in New Orleans. Dallass has been very good this year and it appears that Jones has been much more patient with this team and coaching staff than he has with teams in the past so we shall see how that plays out.

I am not 100% sold that Gruden is the man, but I am willing to give him one more year.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100709]I'll take Chip Kelly's and Jerry Jones' word over Gruden's any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, and so will the rest of the pro football world. It doesn't mean they'll overreach to acquire him, mostly because the dumpster fire coaching staff in DC has done everything in its power to diminish RG's value. Right now legit HC and FO's around the league are watching with interest to see if Redskins Park is stupid enough to follow a historically bad HC into the abyss, jettisoning a talented young QB who hasn't even had the benefit of QB coach in his 3rd season for fuck sakes.

Perspective is paramount here. Gruden is the guy who was given every opportunity in Cincy, elite defense backing him up, way above average talent on offense. But he always found a way to blow it, usually by getting cute and forcing the passing game when the run had been the key to success. Meanwhile Kelly and Jones & Co are vying for the division title.[/quote]

So stop ducking the question. Since all the NFL people know the blame lies with the coaching staff we should get good trade offers.

After the season, what is his trade value? One, two, three first round picks?

What is your number?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Bucket;1100713]Actually. Dalton was given the option of 3 plays at the line and change to his will. It was something Gruden had but hasn't installed here for obvious reasons.

You taking the praises of a few people just smiling for the media is what is wrong with some of the fair weather fans around here[/quote]

Never heard Dalton had 3 play option, meaning he chose to give up on the run in the 2nd half. Link?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1100718]So stop ducking the question. Since all the NFL people know the blame lies with the coaching staff we should get good trade offers.

After the season, what is his trade value? One, two, three first round picks?

What is your number?[/quote]

Sorry man I didn't see you ask this earlier. Agree his trade value is very low, which is a shame and part of the point I made. But it shouldn't be a question even, trading him will be an even bigger mistake than hiring Gruden.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982;1100579]I'll post it here, if we keep RG3 how would you react to signing Vick as the Third QB?



[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/12/18/michael-vick-says-playing-for-redskins-would-be-a-dream-come-true/?tid=pm_sports_pop]Michael Vick says playing for Redskins would be a ‘dream come true’ - The Washington Post[/url]





I think if RG stays its a strong possibility that Cousins will be traded. I know a lot of you would blow a gasket if that happened, but call it a hunch...[/QUOTE]


No, no, and just for good measure no again.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1100580]Vick would be happy to just have a job. He doesn't seem like Gruden's cup of tea.[/QUOTE]


Especially one where he retires close to home, overpaid, and on a team where he actually has a chance to play again.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Gruden had a nice game plan today for RGIII, it was conservative but it worked. This is the Best RGIII has looked in a long, long time.