Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Oh man, two Goat references in the same week? LOL.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1119656]Well, that's just the thing. He does, at times, raise legitimate, interesting points that could form the basis for a good discussion. [Yes, I disagree that, at this stage, for where this team is going, RGIII is a legitimate fall back option. However, I get the "let's keep him in case the JG/KC experiment fails" argument. I actually bought into it until his latest off-the-field drama, injury and apparent on-field issues.]

It's just that, in order to set the boundaries of a discussion, he generally asks a loaded question which requires anyone replying to it to accept his premise in order to respond to it. Thus, rather than a real discussion, it becomes an exercise in "See how right my unassailable premise is." Those who disagree with the premise and phrase a response that incorporates the disagreement are simply dismissed as "unresponsive." It really is just a rhetorical gadget play because, technically, those who disagree with the premise [I]can't[/I] respond to the specific question

It's a cross-examination technique that [I]can be [/I]a very persuasive rhetorical technique IF you lay the proper foundation such that you get everyone to agree with the question's underlying premise [b/c then there is only one "right" answer]. He never does that, and, in fact, I suspect knows folks don't agree with the premise so he skips the first part intentionally and then claims the rhetorical high ground by asserting others are unresponsive. It's just intellectually lazy and insulting to those trying to [I]actually[/I] discuss competing viewpoints and opinions.

It's the damn internet - not a scholarly debate. A little recognition that most responses are relatively stream of conscience so slack needs to be cut and an open mind needs to be kept. Otherwise its all mental masturbation and Big Man On Internet bull crap.

If he spent less time being pedantic and dismissive of others and more time actually looking for and acknowledging points of agreement, he actually could add to the discussion rather than just attempt to prove himself correct through rhetorical sleight of hand.

He isn't quite at Goat levels of obnoxiousness yet (Still the only guy I have ever put on ignore). Getting there, but not yet. There is still hope.

Hey, if punch could come around, anyone can - ;)[/quote]

Love this post, right on JoeR!

By the way, was "stream of conscience" a Freudian slip?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I think he's a sociopath. Or at the very least has narcissistic personality disorder.
Or he's just clown shoes.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

30 honestly I've started to completely ignore your posts because they get to the point where they're arguing whether someone else made a valid point that addresses the very specific point you want addressed, and less and less real discussion on football.

The only reason I know that you're even being a pain in the ass is because I've read JR's posts here.

People will begin to ignore you if reading your stuff gets to the point where it's not worth it. I like to read posts about the Redskins, not a bunch of drivel as to whether you think someone is arguing a point you think is valid. You're on the road to irrelevance.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1119669]... was "stream of conscience" a Freudian slip?[/quote]

No. I'm a lawyer. I have no conscience which to stream.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1119664]Oh man, two Goat references in the same week? LOL.[/quote]

... and his buddy, the big-oil, Denver Broncos insider who kept Goat so well informed.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

so, uh... how about that cousins guy? should be pretty interesting to see how he does on sunday. thoughts?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I think he's going to play well.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Rodgers described the three rules as "senses," saying:

"One: No premeditated decisions.

"Two: Don’t make a blind throw. And that was a blind throw, meaning I didn’t look inside to see where the next coverage element was—that will get you sometimes. It got me against Conte.

"Three: Don’t throw it late down the middle."

Read more: [url=http://www.businessinsider.com/aaron-rodgers-passing-master-2015-9#ixzz3lLg7Q8eb]Aaron Rodgers describes rules he follows to make a throw - Business Insider[/url]
---------------------------------

from everything weve heard, Cousins needs to follow rule 1.

Just bc you read the safety pre-snap and your premeditated first read should be wide open by all accounts ... maybe let the play develop for 1 second to see if your pre-snap read was correct.

being a Qb in the NFL seems almost impossible ... im sure the off coord makes it easier by asking the QB to read just one defensive player but i cant imagine having to read a guy and make a quick mental decision to throw ball, then have the brain tell body how to throw the ball .. all in 2.7 seconds.

1 second - read d post-snap confirming what you read pre-snap is still accurate, all while a bunch of huge dudes battle in front of you making weird grunting sounds

1.5 seconds - brain decides to throw ball, brain tell body to throw the ball with the certain touch/velocity etc

2.5 seconds - ball leaving hand

2.7 seconds - haloti ngata crashes in on your plant leg

2.8 seconds - acl snaps

3 seconds - length of your nfl career

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Cousins downfall is definitely rule #1, and I assume it's one that kills a lot of young QBs. Hopefully he can grow out of it.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Can anyone venture to explain rule 3?

im guessing middle routes are drags and things coming across the field so if you throw late, you might be throwing behind a guy?

congestion in middle = increased opportunity for things to go bad vs sideline or over coverage?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1119683]so, uh... how about that cousins guy? should be pretty interesting to see how he does on sunday. thoughts?[/quote]

How dare you try to derail this thread with unresponsive posts. I dismiss you unilaterally.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1119690]Cousins downfall is definitely rule #1, and I assume it's one that kills a lot of young QBs. Hopefully he can grow out of it.[/quote]

It certainly seems like a lot of KC's throws break this rule and it would be consistent with SmootSmack's info that he's great in the QB room when it comes to knowing plays and what's "supposed" to happen.

At the same time, I seem to recall a few Rule 2 and Rule 3 violations as well. Also, as SS and a couple others have pointed out, KC has ALWAYS thrown picks. Maybe he grows out of it, but that would be a significant epiphany for him. I am not holding my breath - just hoping his plusses (timing, pocket awareness, and good knowledge of the offense) outweigh his minuses (no rocket arm, locking on receivers, predetermining where play is going to go, inability to deal with game stress). If they do, we could be a 7-9 win team. If they don't .... first pick here we come.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=over the mountain;1119692]Can anyone venture to explain rule 3?

im guessing middle routes are drags and things coming across the field so if you throw late, you might be throwing behind a guy?

congestion in middle = increased opportunity for things to go bad vs sideline or over coverage?[/quote]

If the QB has moved towards one sideline, which a lot of times happens the later in the play that it gets. The middle guys will move out of their spots but seeing the guys on the opposite side of the field that are now moving to the middle since the field is being cut in half are almost never seen.

Even if its not a scramble, the longer a play develops allows the MLB to get to his spot and set up shop, or deep, the FS. Those crossing routes can look open based on coverage, but then leading him to his spot opens it up to people coming from the opposite direction which are easy to miss as a QB.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=over the mountain;1119692]Can anyone venture to explain rule 3?

im guessing middle routes are drags and things coming across the field so if you throw late, you might be throwing behind a guy?

[B]congestion in middle = increased opportunity for things to go bad vs sideline or over coverage?[/B][/quote]

Yup - pretty sure you nailed it. I hear announcers and QB's say it all the time. A lot can go wrong with ball being thrown in the middle of the field after the route concepts have already developed and DB's have time to adjust. An overthrow to the sidelines goes out of bounds. An overthrow down the deep middle ends up in the hands of a safety. (Well, not if it's one of our safeties, but I hear other safeties catch them).

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

The margin for error is pretty small in the middle of the field. If the throw drifts either direction or too far/too short, someone is there. On sideline throws you can err the throw more towards the sideline and make it a much higher chance of an incompletion if your guy doesn't bring it down.

oops.. JoeRedskin pretty much said the same..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[url=http://www.richmond.com/redskins-xtra/article_641ddd80-57eb-11e5-a5da-b7d0af97428c.html]RGIII still not cleared from concussion - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Redskins XTRA[/url]


What kind of charade is this going on? Cooley even stated on the radio a couple weeks ago that it was easy to get cleared, so what is the issue here? They are dragging this shit out for a particular reason.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1119690]Cousins downfall is definitely rule #1, and I assume it's one that kills a lot of young QBs. Hopefully he can grow out of it.[/quote]Predetermining reads is factor that shows up in his INT% and his lack of production on 3rd downs and drop backs lasting longer then 2.5s. Jay can help by being more balanced and not putting Kirk in situations where the game is put on his shoulders through the passing game with high volume attempts.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1119716][url=http://www.richmond.com/redskins-xtra/article_641ddd80-57eb-11e5-a5da-b7d0af97428c.html]RGIII still not cleared from concussion - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Redskins XTRA[/url]





What kind of charade is this going on? Cooley even stated on the radio a couple weeks ago that it was easy to get cleared, so what is the issue here? They are dragging this shit out for a particular reason.[/QUOTE]


Still trying to find trade?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kingj;1119719]Still trying to find trade?[/quote]

It's to RG3's advantage to not be cleared since he gets paid and can't be cut. How hard would it be to slow yourself down a half second to be worse than your baseline tests? My suspicion is that as soon as he sees an offer from the Redskins or someone else that he likes, he'll magically pass with flying colors..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119720]It's to RG3's advantage to not be cleared since he gets paid and can't be cut. How hard would it be to slow yourself down a half second to be worse than your baseline tests? My suspicion is that as soon as he sees an offer from the Redskins or someone else that he likes, he'll magically pass with flying colors..[/quote]

And if he never gets cleared to play again he hits the jackpot... Right?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Hey Robert Gryyphone, can we just tear up your contract and you can go feck off.
kthxbye

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1119718]Predetermining reads is factor that shows up in his INT% and his lack of production on 3rd downs and drop backs lasting longer then 2.5s. Jay can help by being more balanced and not putting Kirk in situations where the game is put on his shoulders through the passing game with high volume attempts.[/QUOTE]

I will believe a Jay Gruden committed to ground and pound when I see it.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1119725]I will believe a Jay Gruden committed to ground and pound when I see it.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk[/quote]

How does that relate to his post!?!?! please reply only when appropriate.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119720]It's to RG3's advantage to not be cleared since he gets paid and can't be cut. How hard would it be to slow yourself down a half second to be worse than your baseline tests? My suspicion is that as soon as he sees an offer from the Redskins or someone else that he likes, he'll magically pass with flying colors..[/quote]

Doctors can see through BS like that. No way to fake MRIs or CT scans either.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1119730]Doctors can see through BS like that. No way to fake MRIs or CT scans either.[/QUOTE]


And Griffin doesn't really strike me as that type. It seems like he badly wants to play football

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119720]It's to RG3's advantage to not be cleared since he gets paid and can't be cut. How hard would it be to slow yourself down a half second to be worse than your baseline tests? My suspicion is that as soon as he sees an offer from the Redskins or someone else that he likes, he'll magically pass with flying colors..[/quote]

Many people have pointed out that RG3 seems like the kind of person who would "find a way' to fail the tests and or otherwise look injured / not well so that he can guarantee his 17 million for next year.

However - it might be that he is actually dealing with brain issues / injury. Someone on here posted a link to an excellent article that detailed every one of RG3's sports injuries since college and the NFL, and he has had 4 concussions since college, counting the one against Detroit. That is a lot, and he is getting close to the number that has had some pro QB's call it quits after a long career. (Aikman had 7 IIRC, Montana 6, Steve Young had 5)

To be RG3 at 25 years old and already had 4 concussions, by the time he is 30 he could have suffered as many as 7 or 8, really putting his long-term health into question..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1119732]Many people have pointed out that RG3 seems like the kind of person who would "find a way' to fail the tests and or otherwise look injured / not well so that he can guarantee his 17 million for next year.[/quote]What people? Or do you mean people in this thread?

Nothing I've read or heard about Griffin strikes me that he is the type of person to fail the concussion test on purpose. (if that's even possible as Matty suggested it wasn't)

Fletcher, who recently spoke with Griffin said that even though he [Fletcher] would want out Griffin's situation that Griffin wants to stay and win in Washington.

But sure, why not say that Griffin is failing on purpose. It fits in perfectly with this thread.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1119730]Doctors can see through BS like that. No way to fake MRIs or CT scans either.[/quote]

From the NCAA..

"Most return-to-play protocols are similar to those in the Consensus Statement on Concussion in Sport guidelines which outline a progressive increase in physical activity [B]if the individual is at baseline before starting the protocol and remains at baseline throughout each step of the protocol[/B]."

The League and it's doctors are going to err on the side of caution. If says he's symptomatic, he won't be cleared. That might get a closer look after a few weeks but in the short term, there's nothing stopping him from doing so. MRIs or CT scans alone would never clear a player from a concussion.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119733]What people? Or do you mean people in this thread?

Nothing I've read or heard about Griffin strikes me that he is the type of person to fail the concussion test on purpose. (if that's even possible as Matty suggested it wasn't)

Fletcher, who recently spoke with Griffin said that even though he [Fletcher] would want out Griffin's situation that Griffin wants to stay and win in Washington.

But sure, why not say that Griffin is failing on purpose. It fits in perfectly with this thread.[/quote]

If you are facing the end of your career, and a fib is going to put twice your lifetime earnings in the bank, would you at least consider it an option?

I'm not saying it's happening. But I am saying it's plausible.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119733]What people? Or do you mean people in this thread?

Nothing I've read or heard about Griffin strikes me that he is the type of person to fail the concussion test on purpose. (if that's even possible as Matty suggested it wasn't)

Fletcher, who recently spoke with Griffin said that even though he [Fletcher] would want out Griffin's situation that Griffin wants to stay and win in Washington.

But sure, why not say that Griffin is failing on purpose. It fits in perfectly with this thread.[/quote]

People on the thread.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1119732]Many people have pointed out that RG3 seems like the kind of person who would "find a way' to fail the tests and or otherwise look injured / not well so that he can guarantee his 17 million for next year.

However - it might be that he is actually dealing with brain issues / injury. Someone on here posted a link to an excellent article that detailed every one of RG3's sports injuries since college and the NFL, and he has had 4 concussions since college, counting the one against Detroit. That is a lot, and he is getting close to the number that has had some pro QB's call it quits after a long career. (Aikman had 7 IIRC, Montana 6, Steve Young had 5)

To be RG3 at 25 years old and already had 4 concussions, by the time he is 30 he could have suffered as many as 7 or 8, really putting his long-term health into question..[/quote]

I don't want to downplay concussions and head injuries. I had a head injury myself at 13 that has followed me through my adult life. Having multiple concussions is no joke and is something that truly deserves more understanding by the League and it's members. That said, I have heard of players (college, not pro) purposely doing slightly worse on their initial baseline tests so if they have a concussion they can be cleared quicker to play again.

To your point, I actually think most players have had more concussions than they even realize. Guys like Wes Welker are literally putting their future at risk every time they step on a field.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119736]From the NCAA..

"Most return-to-play protocols are similar to those in the Consensus Statement on Concussion in Sport guidelines which outline a progressive increase in physical activity [B]if the individual is at baseline before starting the protocol and remains at baseline throughout each step of the protocol[/B]."

The League and it's doctors are going to err on the side of caution. If says he's symptomatic, he won't be cleared. That might get a closer look after a few weeks but in the short term, there's nothing stopping him from doing so. MRIs or CT scans alone would never clear a player from a concussion.[/quote]

I don't think the team is pushing him for it. From their announcements they are only sending him once a week it seems. Portis or Cooley (i don't remember which and they were both on the air together discussing it) said that after one of their concussions, the team was sending him to Pittsburgh daily to clear him.

From the team's perspective I imagine him on Concussion Protocol let's them move forward without anything more than a roster space.

From his perspective, he could probably push for more testing, but he can also let the tests go forward, have limited practices, and maybe get something good going. It is his 3rd concussion, so I wouldn't blame him for not rushing back, even if the competitor in him wants to get back in.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119742]I don't want to downplay concussions and head injuries. I had a head injury myself at 13 that has followed me through my adult life. Having multiple concussions is no joke and is something that truly deserves more understanding by the League and it's members. That said, I have heard of players (college, not pro) purposely doing slightly worse on their initial baseline tests so if they have a concussion they can be cleared quicker to play again.

To your point, I actually think most players have had more concussions than they even realize. Guys like Wes Welker are literally putting their future at risk every time they step on a field.[/quote]

RG3, love him or hate him, has had 4 "documented" concussions, and to your point he, like any football player has "had his bell rung" plenty more times beyond that. It is at the point where he probably really is risking his future health if he continues to play on while constantly taking shots to the head.

One of my favorite wrestlers growing up with Mick Foley, who has had a lifetime of concussions, to say the least. He is 46 years old now, in the early stages of brain damage, and while still seemingly coherent, his wife has to put his socks on him and help him with other menial tasks. It is a shame because he was still wrestling just a few years ago and "seemed fine".

I have no personal dislike of RG3. Is brain damage really worth it for this young man? What good is all the money in the world if he can't spend it, and his wife has to take care of him, etc....

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119736]From the NCAA..

"Most return-to-play protocols are similar to those in the Consensus Statement on Concussion in Sport guidelines which outline a progressive increase in physical activity [B]if the individual is at baseline before starting the protocol and remains at baseline throughout each step of the protocol[/B]."

The League and it's doctors are going to err on the side of caution. If says he's symptomatic, he won't be cleared. That might get a closer look after a few weeks but in the short term, there's nothing stopping him from doing so. MRIs or CT scans alone would never clear a player from a concussion.[/quote]

Like I said, doctors can see through the BS of someone trying to fix a test, I didn't say a diagnostic test alone would clear someone. But when normal testing doesn't line up with a doctors observation they'll know something is up.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Wow. Tin foil hats abroad.
He's not faking a concussion.
This is getting totally ridiculous on both sides of the coin. On one side we have people saying he's the greatest (3rd string) qb ever and all the coaches and personal are totally wrong...and on the other side we have people saying he's faking head trauma to get a paycheck. This all after people have said it was a team collusion to get him injured in the first place.
Egh. Double egh.
I can't wait for this to be done so I can start bitching about our secondary that can't tackle, because that will at least be caught on film.
Something something something guy on the grassy knoll...something something shanahan book depository building.
I'm over it already.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

This is actually a good article...

[b]Report: Decision to bench RG3 came down to two key points[/b]

[URL]http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-decision-to-bench-rg3-came-down-to-two-key-points/ar-AAe95WW?li=BBgzzfc[/URL]

This article is a little long, but it makes some good points...

[b]Rebuilding the Redskins from the Washington Post[/b]

[URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/sports/wp/2015/09/08/proven-success-scot-mccloughans-first-season-in-washington/?tid=sm_tw_ps[/URL]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kct1975;1119791]

This article is a little long, but it makes some good points...

[b]Rebuilding the Redskins from the Washington Post[/b]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/sports/wp/2015/09/08/proven-success-scot-mccloughans-first-season-in-washington/?tid=sm_tw_ps]Redskins GM Scot McCloughan aims to build a consistent winner after decades of instability | The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Mmm, the feels are good. Hopefully that translates into results on the field sometime in the next 3 seasons.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[B][SIZE="4"] ‏@lizclarketweet

#Skins President Bruce Allen just told WTOP that QB RG3 has been cleared to return to games, 3 wks after suffering 3d concussion of career[/SIZE][/B]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1119821][B][SIZE="4"] ‏@lizclarketweet

#Skins President Bruce Allen just told WTOP that QB RG3 has been cleared to return to games, 3 wks after suffering 3d concussion of career[/SIZE][/B][/quote]

Good news.