Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Monksdown;1152619]3 years between 18 and 23 per. [B]2 years optional[/B]. In my opinion, he's not elite, but he's likely consistent if we continue to have excellent position players around him.

In the mean time, you draft a quarterback between rounds 2 and 4 in the next 2 years to take the helm should he fail.[/quote]

Whose option? The Skins? Don't get the idea that the Skins will be able to offer him any deal that suits them and expect him to take it. He will have other suitors.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1152623]Whose option? The Skins? Don't get the idea that the Skins will be able to offer him any deal that suits them and expect him to take it. He will have other suitors.[/quote]

Definitely the redskins options. the deal i put forth had roughly 60 mil guaranteed. Kirk has proven that he's confident in himself by not signing what they offered him before the tag. If they say, 'Kirk, here is 60 mil, we've got 40-50 mil more lined up if you develop into the franchise qb you think you are.'

that's a reasonably nice deal for him.

Of course he has other suitors, on teams that dont have Jordan Reed, DeSean, Garcon and 71 on his blind side.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Monksdown;1152624]Definitely the redskins options. the deal i put forth had roughly 60 mil guaranteed. Kirk has proven that he's confident in himself by not signing what they offered him before the tag. If they say, 'Kirk, here is 60 mil, we've got 40-50 mil more lined up if you develop into the franchise qb you think you are.'

that's a reasonably nice deal for him.

Of course he has other suitors, on teams that dont have Jordan Reed, DeSean, Garcon and 71 on his blind side.[/quote]
DJax, Garcon and Reed (concussions) could easily not be here next year.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Good stuff from Keim here...and I totally agree and have been calling for Cousins to be better down the field:

"One big improvement in Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins Sunday: [B]His success rate on throws of 10 yards or more. Entering Sunday, Cousins had completed just 46.5 percent of such passes, according to ESPN StatS & Information. But vs. the Eagles, Cousins was eight-of-13 for 174 yards and two touchdowns on such throws.[/B] He capitalized on big plays that were available"

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1152627]DJax, Garcon and Reed (concussions) could easily not be here next year.[/quote]

80+% chance 2 of 3 are here.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Monksdown;1152624]Definitely the redskins options. the deal i put forth had roughly 60 mil guaranteed. Kirk has proven that he's confident in himself by not signing what they offered him before the tag. If they say, 'Kirk, here is 60 mil, we've got 40-50 mil more lined up if you develop into the franchise qb you think you are.'

that's a reasonably nice deal for him.

Of course he has other suitors, on teams that dont have Jordan Reed, DeSean, Garcon and 71 on his blind side.[/quote]

I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that only the first year would be guaranteed.

$60MM guaranteed would be more than any other NFL QB is currently guaranteed, by $6MM (Aaron Rodgers is guaranteed $54MM). The Skins may not need to go that high in guaranteed money to sign Kirk.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1152627]DJax, Garcon and Reed (concussions) could easily not be here next year.[/QUOTE]



Wow that would be a load to let go of. I hope we sign our own, draft well, and are able to keep all three.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=rocnrik;1152615]What happens if kirk has a slightly above average year (throws say 16 picks and 18 td's.. do you pay him the huge money? or offer average money and risk he will walk. how many of you would sign him today for 20 million a year?[/quote]

Even though i think they let him walk, I think they should make a deal for him because at least for next year, you currently don't have any real options on the team outside of McCoy, and there's such a small, small chance that they go into 2017 with an untested guy like Sudfield.

Forget which NFL guy it was that i heard on a sports radio that said right now we probably have about half a dozen or so teams watching Cousins to see how he does the whole season because they might go after him if Redskins let him go. At first guess i'm thinking that the perennial "bad" NFL teams are watching him like Cleveland, Jax, etc... Would really be interesting if somehow he lands in Cleveland with RG3 still on the roster...probably crazy talk but still i wonder sometimes....

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1152608]Id like to put Solid Snake between Bayless and Stephen A.

Now that's a show Id watch. I would want Solid though to remain steadfest in any of his opinions.

Solid much love bro[/quote]

Dude I love all you guys here. I love debating with you all because like 100% of the people here are cool and they don't flame me for making stupid posts or arguing something silly. One guy said something to me (CRedskinsRule) that i think i might have taken the wrong way and he was 100% classy and apologized even though he probably didn't need to, as i was just being an ass.

Some other poster also summed me up great, IMO - i'm a guy who loves the redskins, doesn't really know their "glory days", but are afraid about most things with the team because my entire time as a fan has been when Dan / The Skins have been at their worst, so now that things are looking better it's hard for me to see the positives as I'm so afraid that we go back to doing things the way we used to.

I'm coming around. I for real love all of you guys though. This is the place i visit the most on the net, and I couldn't imagine life without this site and all of the great people here. Nothing like Extreme Skins. Matty is cool, like he'll talk to you and stuff and he's just a good guy. You can tell all of the love that went into making this site...HTTR

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1152644]Dude I love all you guys here. I love debating with you all because like 100% of the people here are cool and they don't flame me for making stupid posts or arguing something silly. One guy said something to me (CRedskinsRule) that i think i might have taken the wrong way and he was 100% classy and apologized even though he probably didn't need to, as i was just being an ass.



Some other poster also summed me up great, IMO - i'm a guy who loves the redskins, doesn't really know their "glory days", but are afraid about most things with the team because my entire time as a fan has been when Dan / The Skins have been at their worst, so now that things are looking better it's hard for me to see the positives as I'm so afraid that we go back to doing things the way we used to.



I'm coming around. I for real love all of you guys though. This is the place i visit the most on the net, and I couldn't imagine life without this site and all of the great people here. Nothing like Extreme Skins. Matty is cool, like he'll talk to you and stuff and he's just a good guy. You can tell all of the love that went into making this site...HTTR[/QUOTE]



Not sure how old you are. I do remember the glory days, and I will tell you what, the Redskins are making a little habit out of winning lately. This is by far thee best they have looked in years, in every aspect....cap room, full draft choices, current roster, depth, age, gm, snyder staying away, coaching. It is a good time to be a Redskin fan! And I couldn't agree more - I love this site. Everyone is cool. Nobody is a dick. Its like a family. Not like "that other site". HTTR!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1152639]Wow that would be a load to let go of. I hope we sign our own, draft well, and are able to keep all three.[/quote]

Hmmm...things to note/think of..

Jackson is 29
Garcon is 30
However good, Reed is uber fragile...
Crowder is good/solid...bordering on very good.
Doctson is frustrating. Hes the fecked up wild card in our future receiver corp plans.

And because of the Reed/Doctson health issues I think we should >>>>
(next year)
Resign Jackson
Let Garcon explore FA
Try to find a semi cheap WR in FA. Or a TE.... I have no idea what the market is going to be like.
And then look at TEs in the third or later rounds next year if Reed is done or close to done.
Clear as mud?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I see Garcon being an Anquan Boldin, playing effectively well into his 30s. I love DJax but most of his game is based on speed, how long is he going to be able to outrun people? Already 29...

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Everytime I think to myself, well garçon is about done...he is replaceable....he comes back and has a effing massive game. He's been huge these last couple Sundays. Def a candidate to be resigned.

Now grant on the other hand...seeeee ya. Actually wouldn't mind McC spending another mid round pick on a receiver this year.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32for32x161019/nfl-2016-grading-quarterbacks-all-32-teams]NFL 2016 - Grading quarterbacks for all 32 teams[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Really hope that they can sign him to a new deal. As really he is a keeper. Slow start though.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=JPPT1974;1152664]Really hope that they can sign him to a new deal. As really he is a keeper. Slow start though.[/quote]


JP - as a person who owns a Lavar and Haynesworth jersey, its time to update that avatar my friend.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1152653]Hmmm...things to note/think of..

Jackson is 29
Garcon is 30
[B][U]However good, Reed is uber fragile...[/U][/B]
Crowder is good/solid...bordering on very good.
Doctson is frustrating. Hes the fecked up wild card in our future receiver corp plans.

And because of the Reed/Doctson health issues I think we should >>>>
(next year)
Resign Jackson
Let Garcon explore FA
Try to find a semi cheap WR in FA. Or a TE.... I have no idea what the market is going to be like.
And then look at TEs in the third or later rounds next year if Reed is done or close to done.
Clear as mud?[/quote]

I am worried for him. I thought he had put behind him the concussion thing.
After each subsequent concussion it only gets worse. He is much more susceptible to more concussions. This could cut short his career, not to mention CTE and the long term consequences. I hope he recovers.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1152689]JP - as a person who owns a Lavar and Haynesworth jersey, its time to update that avatar my friend.[/QUOTE]



Lol. I actually forget he was even on the team. Id rock a lavar jersey still. Haynesworth not so much. My number 10 jersey been hanging in my closet for a while now,....
Never buy a jersey until the player is an established skin for life. Got a Riggo and a Taylor that will never go out of style.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/10/19/a-closer-look-at-kirk-cousinss-performance-against-the-eagles/[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1152728][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/10/19/a-closer-look-at-kirk-cousinss-performance-against-the-eagles/[/url][/quote]

His breakdown was good outside the Djax one. That almost interception was all on Djax

It's a high low look. Kirk keys the Mike, and throws to Djax on the Post. Djax CANNOT allow the safety to cross his face. If Djax continues his route it's a Touchdown or pass interference at best. He stops his route because he sees traffic. This is where having a bigger WR like Doctson would help this team.

That ball was perfectly thrown and should of been a TD. Two TD were missed because of Djax on Sunday, but he's a baller. So he will always get his.

I would like to add. I was watching Monday Morning QB and all 3 QB on that show that are retired now think Kirk Cousins is the future at QB for the Redskins.

Inside the NFL Michael Irvin said, and I quote.

"NFC East is the only division in the NFL that every team is set at the QB position, and the records show"

I am going with experts on this. Kirk is the future of this team.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1152731]His breakdown was good outside the Djax one. That almost interception was all on Djax

It's a high low look. Kirk keys the Mike, and throws to Djax on the Post. Djax CANNOT allow the safety to cross his face. If Djax continues his route it's a Touchdown or pass interference at best. He stops his route because he sees traffic. This is where having a bigger WR like Doctson would help this team.

That ball was perfectly thrown and should of been a TD. Two TD were missed because of Djax on Sunday, but he's a baller. So he will always get his.

I would like to add. I was watching Monday Morning QB and all 3 QB on that show that are retired now think Kirk Cousins is the future at QB for the Redskins.

Inside the NFL Michael Irvin said, and I quote.

"NFC East is the only division in the NFL that every team is set at the QB position, and the records show"

I am going with experts on this. Kirk is the future of this team.[/QUOTE]
Yeah he was sharp most of the game, I agree Kirk is the guy as I've said all OS. Just pay him a respectable deal and I know Scot will do what's best. Hopefully another team doesn't offer him more but we'll see

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1152731] I was watching Monday Morning QB and all 3 QB on that show that are retired now think Kirk Cousins is the future at QB for the Redskins.[/quote]

Are you speaking of Phil Simms, Rich Gannon, and Steve Beurlein?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1152692]I am worried for him. I thought he had put behind him the concussion thing.
After each subsequent concussion it only gets worse. He is much more susceptible to more concussions. This could cut short his career, not to mention CTE and the long term consequences. I hope he recovers.[/quote]

The argument could be safely made that after 6 documented concussions and who knows how many more "undocumented" concussions, he could probably retire now and save his brain. Like you said, its gets worse each time, and it also gets easier to receive a concussion after each one you get. Not worth risking his life / his health, etc...

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

well the "Kirk will struggle w/o Reed" talk is put to rest.

He's had 4 total tds and 1 Int in the 2 weeks he's been out.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

He throws a pick six one week and we win, no picks the next and we lose. I think there's a valuable lesson there that it's not all on Kirk.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk had a great game yesterday. So did the D minus one drive. Damn you Matt Jones, and Ryan Grant. Just damn you both. Hopkins gets a pass.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Ultimately, KC is a guy you can win with. Who knows if he's elite. He's certainly not garbage, and in the NFL where Osweiler gets 37Mil we are going to pay to keep him. We won't franchise him again, and I expect his number is going to be around 24mil per year.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1153387]Ultimately, KC is a guy you can win with. Who knows if he's elite. He's certainly not garbage, and in the NFL where Osweiler gets 37Mil we are going to pay to keep him. We won't franchise him again, and I expect his number is going to be around 24mil per year.[/quote]

I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153405]I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.[/quote]

That's the kind of thinking that gets coaches fired.
You can't decide to settle for someone worse because of a few million. Especially when 20 million isn't even that much towards the cap. 12% of the cap is where you want the QB cap to be.

20 million for about 5 more wins a season that McCoy isn't going to get you.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1153408]That's the kind of thinking that gets coaches fired.
You can't decide to settle for someone worse because of a few million. Especially when 20 million isn't even that much towards the cap. 12% of the cap is where you want the QB cap to be.

20 million for about 5 more wins a season that McCoy isn't going to get you.[/quote]


A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for above average talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153412]A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for marginal talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.[/quote]

Kirk is not a marginal talent. Just about any credible talent evaluator would place him in the top half of all NFL QB's right now. My personal expectation is that he will continue to improve throughout this season and beyond.

Kirk won the game for us yesterday. Unfortunately, our defense gave it right back.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1153412]A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for marginal talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.



I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.[/QUOTE]



Marginal is a little harsh dont you think? His numbers over almost his last 20 games are far from marginal.
Also if you think we would be 4-3 with McCoy in can you please pass it over here it must be good. Lol. Over the course of 16 games he certainly garners us at least 5 more wins than Colt. Because of Cousins we almost won yesterday. I know we did not but there is almost zero percent probability that Colt takes us on two late touchdown drives to go ahead.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

KC is marginal is about as hilarious as saying Keenum is a baller.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1153419]Marginal is a little harsh dont you think? His numbers over almost his last 20 games are far from marginal.
Also if you think we would be 4-3 with McCoy in can you please pass it over here it must be good. Lol. Over the course of 16 games he certainly garners us at least 5 more wins than Colt. Because of Cousins we almost won yesterday. I know we did not but there is almost zero percent probability that Colt takes us on two late touchdown drives to go ahead.[/quote]

Marginal was indeed harsh so I retract that. He's above average QB. He's currently 21st in the league in QB rating, but he ranks high in terms of yards per game. I just don't like the idea of paying a non-franchise QB franchise kind of money that doesn't produce franchise type results. I'd be furious right now if I were a Bears or Ravens fan. Their QBs are killing their salary caps and they have nothing to show for it.

You also have to put into context the teams we've played for him to get those numbers as well.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153405]I'd go with McCoy at a much lower rate than give 24mil/yr to Kirk. I'd rather build a quality team with the extra money than dump into a QB that's proven to be average at this point. Kirk isn't our main problem, but he hasn't shown he's worthy of an extension either in my book.[/quote]

You've got SolidSnake thinking you are talking straight from SM's playbook.

Our cap space is good next year, we have the 7th most cap space available, and next year before we sign KC we will have around 47mil, or the 6th most available with 44 players under contract (numbers from OTC) If you have a capable NFL qb, who knows your system you don't give it up for a longtime journeyman. Thats just not the way it works...

[YT]K5fn087Jk4I[/YT]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1153425]You've got SolidSnake thinking you are talking straight from SM's playbook.

Our cap space is good next year, we have the 7th most cap space available, and next year before we sign KC we will have around 47mil, or the 6th most available with 44 players under contract (numbers from OTC) If you have a capable NFL qb, who knows your system you don't give it up for a longtime journeyman. Thats just not the way it works...[/quote]


The Ravens and Bears said the same thing. Now they are regretting much of those QB deals. KC still has the rest of the year to win me over on a long term deal, but I wouldn't give him anything remotely close to 20mil/year at this current stage. I will always have this mindset when it comes to salary vs talent in a salary cap system.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153412]A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for above average talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.[/quote]

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1153426]The Ravens and Bears said the same thing. Now they are regretting much of those QB deals. KC still has the rest of the year to win me over on a long term deal, but I wouldn't give him anything remotely close to 20mil/year at this current stage. I will always have this mindset when it comes to salary vs talent in a salary cap system.[/QUOTE]



It isn't so black and white though as just salary vs talent. I dont know what the Bears or Ravens cap situation was than, but ours is good. Cousins knows our system well.
QB is such an important position, that to go with McCoy and save money to sign a big free agent or a few decent free agents seems like a step backwards to me. We have a good young core group. Draft well, sign Cousins (if it were today, or if he continues playing like he is now), and we still have money to sign our own and keep the team, and staff together. That is a winning formula.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk is going to get 16M a year easy if osweiller is worth it

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Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

If he agreed to 16 million he'd already be signed. He is going to average around 20 million, whether by us or another team.