Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1252275]Its a bit for complicated imo.

A bakery or a hotel is "open to the public" and under interstate commerce clause and civil rights laws, a store "open to the general public" cannot discriminate or deny service based on race, religion, gender etc. A bakery open to the public is clearly subject to federal laws and regulations regarding constitutional rights. (whether "sexual identity" is a protected class is up for debate and how that parlays with religious freedom is the difficult issue with the bakery cases)

.[/quote]

I agree with the Christian bakery because it was a custom specialty item. I also believe the gay couple singled them out, knowing full well they would be denied.

When I lived in California I had a lesbian couple who were close friends. They pretty much knew what local businesses were owned by gay people. I am sure that gay couple in Colorado could have easily found a gay friendly bakery.

I personally refused someone service based on their beliefs a couple decades ago in California. A guy handed me a concept drawing of a custom truck grille ornament. He asked how much to make him one. It wasn't hard to notice it had a pair of swastikas on it. My response to him wasn't pleasant.

They way I look at it I did the same thing as the Christian bakery. I refused to make someone a specialty item, because I disagreed with their beliefs. Of course I don't think any court in the land would award damages to a Nazi.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Bob - I agree with you. So does constitutional case law (at least 20 years ago when I studied con law)

Specially designed requests that call into question a persons skill or artistic ability is protected from being forced to accept or deny a request. The baker case, I sympathize with that baker because he offered them any one of his stock shelf cakes that were not personally designed. I’m a supporter of gay and lesbian rights but here, in this case, I sided with the baker.

—————-

If you do iron work, I think there is a nice business niche of custom making outdoor Argentine type grills. My rich brother paid a guy close to 5k for a custom made grill, I think he had to go out of state to find anyone who did custom iron grill work.

Put some signs up around Potomac Maryland and rich dudes will pay you rich people money. Custom grills are becoming a rich guy trend imo.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

I am a machinist, the grilles you speak of would be made by a fabricating shop. I specialize in smaller items from parts that would go inside a watch to maybe something as big as a football. This guy just wanted something that would attach to a vehicle grille.

On another sports fan forum I no longer go to the gay wedding cake incident was discussed at length. I don't know if it was the mostly left leaning members or the fact it was for fans of a team based in San Francisco, but I had almost no one agree with my position. Either the baker and I are both right or both wrong, I don't see how a person could disagree with that.

That case had to get all the way to the supreme court before the baker finally prevailed. I am not religious, but I was brought up around some relatives whose life revolved around church. They had very strong beliefs, and there was no changing their minds. Who knows maybe that baker thought it would be a sin to make that cake.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

I'll never get why some people are so concerned with what others like to do in their bedrooms with another consenting adult. It's small minded and ignorant.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1252332]I'll never get why some people are so concerned with what others like to do in their bedrooms with another consenting adult. It's small minded and ignorant.[/QUOTE]


I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian cult and there is just no reasoning with people like that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Lot has changed since in the church.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1252348]I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian cult and there is just no reasoning with people like that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/quote]

Doesn't the bible condemn homosexuals to death?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1252351]Doesn't the bible condemn homosexuals to death?[/QUOTE]


Yes it does - quite an awful book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Bha is a biblical scholar apparently. Give me the book report on the koran next.

FFS

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Does anybody care to separate the Old Testament from the New?

Feel free to ignore me, my code of judging people is "are you an asshole trying to make others live by your world view or not?" but IIRC my vague recollections is the Old Testament has all the bits about gay people being unacceptable/kill the infidels/etc. and the New is the more modern and tolerant version.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1252355]Bha is a biblical scholar apparently. Give me the book report on the koran next.

FFS[/QUOTE]


One doesn’t have to be a scholar to recognize and reject misogyny, homophobia, and racism when they see it.

When a book advocates invading other countries, killing the men and women and boys, but taking the young girls as child sex slaves, it is objectively horrible. The promotion of genocide, owning other human beings as property, and murder of homosexuals don’t help its case either.

But I actually am quite interested in biblical scholarship. If you are, I would recommend “the Bible Unearthed” by Israel Finkelstein for the Old Testament and any of the works of Professor Bart Ehrman for the New Testament. “how Jesus Became God,” Forged!” and “Jesus, Before the Gospels” are among my favorites. His most recent book “Heaven and Hell: A history of the afterlife” goes into detail explaining how these concepts were invented, appropriated by Christianity after Jesus death, and evolved over time.


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Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1252358]One doesn’t have to be a scholar to recognize and reject misogyny, homophobia, and racism when they see it.

When a book advocates invading other countries, killing the men and women and boys, but taking the young girls as child sex slaves, it is objectively horrible. The promotion of genocide, owning other human beings as property, and murder of homosexuals don’t help its case either.

But I actually am quite interested in biblical scholarship. If you are, I would recommend “the Bible Unearthed” by Israel Finkelstein for the Old Testament and any of the works of Professor Bart Ehrman for the New Testament. “how Jesus Became God,” Forged!” and “Jesus, Before the Gospels” are among my favorites. His most recent book “Heaven and Hell: A history of the afterlife” goes into detail explaining how these concepts were invented, appropriated by Christianity after Jesus death, and evolved over time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

People applying today social norms to social norms thousands of years ago is just amazing. I generally laugh at people applying social norms to those 25 years ago, but I gotta say this is a new low.

FFS, have you looked around the rest of the world today to see how the evils you mentions are pervasive? To put this on Christians is disgusting and dishonest.

Looks up the most persecuted religious followers last year.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1252268]^ yup

And it's important to note that fact checking is not censoring. None of this posts have been deleted or altered.[/quote]

Seems some people at FOX agree with you............


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/fox-news-neil-cavuto-trump-fact-check-025416140.html[/url]


Neil Cavuto on Thursday reeled over President Donald Trump’s attempt to crack down on Twitter because it offered a fact-check on his tweets. The Fox News host said Trump’s claims could be characterized as an “outright lie” and deserved to be checked.

Earlier, Trump signed an executive order designed to lessen liability protections for social media sites. It was an apparent punishment for Twitter after it flagged his tweets that said mail-in voting would be “substantially fraudulent.” Twitter also provided a collection of reports debunking his assertions.

Trump decried the move as “stifling free speech” and, at Thursday’s signing, threatened to shut down Twitter if his lawyers could find a way.

Cavuto expressed concern that, “whatever your opinions on the left or right,” it was significant that the president saw fit to try to regulate or even shut down Twitter for correcting his misinformation.

“He was being policed on that because he was wrong. He was being policed on that because he said millions of ‘illegals’ were getting ballots when that simply was not the case,” Cavuto said. “So this isn’t a left-right issue. That was not the case. That was a wrong fact, that was a misstatement. Some have said it was an outright lie.”

Cavuto also broke down Trump’s “outrageous comments” suggesting MSNBC host Joe Scarborough had killed somebody, referring to a vile conspiracy theory Trump has embraced in an effort to debase his outspoken media critic.

“That was something too that had to be fact-checked. It wasn’t just a left or right thing here. That was something that was incumbent upon anyone to check comments that were deemed outrageous,” he said.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1252359]People applying today social norms to social norms thousands of years ago is just amazing. I generally laugh at people applying social norms to those 25 years ago, but I gotta say this is a new low.

FFS, have you looked around the rest of the world today to see how the evils you mentions are pervasive? To put this on Christians is disgusting and dishonest.

Looks up the most persecuted religious followers last year.[/QUOTE]


I completely agree that social norms are different - this only highlights that the Bible is not the inspired word of any benevolent god, but merely a product of the people of the times.

Modern Christians cannot be lumped into one group, as there are 1) fundamentalists who try to adhere closely to the source material, 2) more liberal Christians who just cherry pick the positive things they like from the source material and come up with excuses to ignore the rest and 3) everyone in between.

The fundamentalists are awful. But even for the more liberal Christians, while I applaud their humanity and kindness, I do believe it is inherently dishonest to claim the Bible as some inspired and sacred source of truth, while picking and choosing which parts to accept and which to reject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?[/url]

How New York’s Coronavirus Response Made the Pandemic Worse

The Cuomo bullshit narrative is lit on fire here...devastating article by the WSJ with data and policy to back it.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1252944][url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?[/url]

How New York’s Coronavirus Response Made the Pandemic Worse

The Cuomo bullshit narrative is lit on fire here...devastating article by the WSJ with data and policy to back it.[/quote]

It's a pay site.

Well considering the lack of leadership from the White House the Governors were doing the best they could .Chico you have a great case of Monday morning QB.:doh:

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Remember this asshole taking a victory lap not long ago?

[YT]Qm6yjTrGkLc[/YT]

Yeah, fast forward to today and [URL="https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20200622/florida-tops-100000-covid-19-cases"]Florida just topped 100,000 cases[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1253179]Remember this asshole taking a victory lap not long ago?

[YT]Qm6yjTrGkLc[/YT]

Yeah, fast forward to today and [URL="https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20200622/florida-tops-100000-covid-19-cases"]Florida just topped 100,000 cases[/URL][/quote]

All he needs is a Mission Accomplished banner and this would be classic.

Speaking of stupid Florida men and women:

[yt]DaFSH0K4BdQ[/yt]

[yt]IqLkhxLp1fo[/yt]

It's literally like source material for those Parks & Rec episodes.

[yt]Ng_-HgRfGBY[/yt]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1252348]I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian cult and there is just no reasoning with people like that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/quote] Are so saying that any and everything should be allowed?Next thing you know we'll have people pushing for incest, pedophilia, and beastitality. Main reason I have no respect for liberals is because you people have no morals or standards. You idiots fail to realize that these type of social changes effects all of society. It goes beyond two consenting adults doing whatever they want in the privacy of their home.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

I use this site mostly on my phone. When in a thread do any of you ever get a you're on PG. 32 of 36 but you're actually on the last page? Not the 1st time this has happened to me. But typically it says I'm on the 2nd to last page. Never got 4 pages off before.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1253353]All he needs is a Mission Accomplished banner and this would be classic.

Speaking of stupid Florida men and women:

[yt]DaFSH0K4BdQ[/yt]

[yt]IqLkhxLp1fo[/yt]

It's literally like source material for those Parks & Rec episodes.

[yt]Ng_-HgRfGBY[/yt][/quote]

I saw the 2nd of the 3 videos a few minutes ago on IG. She was big time mad. Sending people to the pits of hell. That's beyond all our pay grades. Give her a pot brownie.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Just remember the NYT article in late April when research states New York is seeding the outbreak to other states..New Yorkers top travel destination was Florida.

I think what we are finding is spring was mild in the south, not hot...so a lot of folks were outside. As the heat has kicked in since june1, people have moved inside and that’s helped with the spread. I think in the northeast when spring was cold, people were inside...spread occurs. That’s kinda my takeaway...inside bad with people, outside not bad as long as u distance

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

This anti mask crap is out of control.

Unless you have a legit medical issue, and I'm guessing very few actually do, then stop being a baby and wear a damn mask, it's a minor inconvenience.

[URL="https://www.newsweek.com/face-mask-exemption-cards-flyers-doj-seal-are-not-real-feds-say-1513275"]Face Mask Exemption Cards and Flyers with DOJ Seal Are Not Real, Feds Say[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1253376]This anti mask crap is out of control.

Unless you have a legit medical issue, and I'm guessing very few actually do, then stop being a baby and wear a damn mask, it's a minor inconvenience.

[URL="https://www.newsweek.com/face-mask-exemption-cards-flyers-doj-seal-are-not-real-feds-say-1513275"]Face Mask Exemption Cards and Flyers with DOJ Seal Are Not Real, Feds Say[/URL][/quote]

This is embarrassing. I can only hope this group was created by Russians or some other country trying to encourage dissent because if it was made by actual Americans it's super pathetic.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1253379]This is embarrassing. I can only hope this group was created by Russians or some other country trying to encourage dissent because if it was made by actual Americans it's super pathetic.[/quote] Who needs Russians when we have democrats? Their entire platform is based on dividing people based on race, class, gender, etc. Here is one of the countless examples.
[url]https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/coronavirus/article243773412.html[/url]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1253379]This is embarrassing. I can only hope this group was created by Russians or some other country trying to encourage dissent because if it was made by actual Americans it's super pathetic.[/quote]

Explains trumps presidency.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1253382]Explains trumps presidency.[/quote]
Can you explain this? You have the Oregan government requiring that people wear masks based on their race. Is this how the left wants to run the country? How long do you think we'll remain a country with policies like that?

[url]https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/coronavirus/article243773412.html[/url]

This leads me to wonder about the Chinese virus hysteria. Are these lockdowns about safety or politics? I'm sure you're going to run back down into your safe space. Thus far you've proven yourself incapable of actually giving any type of rebuttal.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Just the flu guys, nothing to see here

[URL="https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-500k-johns-hopkins"]Worldwide coronavirus deaths pass 500,000 mark, Johns Hopkins University research shows[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1253457]Just the flu guys, nothing to see here

[URL="https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-500k-johns-hopkins"]Worldwide coronavirus deaths pass 500,000 mark, Johns Hopkins University research shows[/URL][/quote]

This link is data from the WHO:

[url]https://www.medscape.com/answers/219557-3459/what-is-the-global-incidence-of-influenza[/url]

I hate to be that guy, partially because i really do believe that this is the event that changes America forever, and possibly collapses our government, but it would appear that as scientists gather more and more data, this really is like a different strain of the flu. Killing predominantly the elderly and those with underlying health conditions.

I guarantee you that not many people knew how many people died from the "normal flu" every year. Because i had no idea it was as many people as what it currently is. I was blown away by those numbers.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1253457]Just the flu guys, nothing to see here

[URL="https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-500k-johns-hopkins"]Worldwide coronavirus deaths pass 500,000 mark, Johns Hopkins University research shows[/URL][/quote]

Gotta make these fuckin Chinese pay

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Infections

COVID-19: The first cases appeared in China in late 2019 and the first confirmed case in the United States appeared in January 2020.

Approximately 10,004,643 cases have been confirmed worldwide. There have been 2,510,323 cases in the U.S. as of June 28, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 1 billion people worldwide get the flu every year.

[B]In the U.S., for Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that there were 39 million to 56 million cases of flu.[/B] (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)
Deaths

COVID-19: There have been approximately 499,296 deaths reported worldwide. [B]In the U.S, 125,539 people have died of COVID-19, as of June 28, 2020.*[/B]

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

[B]In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu.[/B] (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. [B]Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher than that of most strains of the flu.[/B]
[url]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu[/url]

[IMG]https://i.insider.com/5e81f66d0c2a6261b1771b08?width=1136&format=jpeg[/IMG]

---------------

Mostly really old people dying but it is deadlier. Its like the flu on steroids imo.

[IMG]https://static3.thesportsterimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/1SammySosa.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=555[/IMG]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Influenza/pneumonia is the #1 infectious disease killer globally and a significant health problem in developing countries. In developed world we have vaccines and access to first class healthcare so we consider it just the "flu" but the vast majority of the world views it as a major problem. I imagine until we have a vaccine coronavirus will be stressed as more than just a flu in the developed world.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1253465]Infections

COVID-19: The first cases appeared in China in late 2019 and the first confirmed case in the United States appeared in January 2020.

Approximately 10,004,643 cases have been confirmed worldwide. There have been 2,510,323 cases in the U.S. as of June 28, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 1 billion people worldwide get the flu every year.

[B]In the U.S., for Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that there were 39 million to 56 million cases of flu.[/B] (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)
Deaths

COVID-19: There have been approximately 499,296 deaths reported worldwide. [B]In the U.S, 125,539 people have died of COVID-19, as of June 28, 2020.*[/B]

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

[B]In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu.[/B] (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. [B]Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher than that of most strains of the flu.[/B]
[url]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu[/url]

[IMG]https://i.insider.com/5e81f66d0c2a6261b1771b08?width=1136&format=jpeg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/R4LYFYL6a0HUPFysh-pZDPU0xtQ=/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/C5YP6OEUUNESZGXSM5Y5LOCJSE.png[/IMG]

---------------

Mostly really old people dying but it is deadlier. Its like the flu on steroids imo.

[IMG]https://static3.thesportsterimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/1SammySosa.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=555[/IMG][/quote]


I wonder now, if in light of everything going on with coronavirus, will they start counting / tracking Flu cases, or do we lockdown again this fall when flu starts hitting again along with the coronavirus.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1253467]I wonder now, if in light of everything going on with coronavirus, will they start counting / tracking Flu cases, or do we lockdown again this fall when flu starts hitting again along with the coronavirus.[/quote]

Idk man. My best guess --- i think its hard to know how many actual cases of the flu or covid bc a lot of people who get it dont go to the hospital. If you ride it out on over the counter or go see your PCP for amoxicillin ... i dont think thats tracked.

Covid does have its own ICD code now, which should help with tracking .. but again, only for cases where people need to go to the hospital. They are projecting and estimating the number of cases.

Vaccine = thats when can treat covid like the flu.

But I think it just a matter of a year or a few years until another new virus is spawned and potentially deadlier ... that one is going to suck. Imagine an infection rate like covid with a 10% death rate for younger people .. fuck.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Do you guys remember when CNN claimed that Donald Trump's statement about Hydroxychlorquine was promising was unfounded and lie? Well it looks like Trump was right and CNN and the rest of the communist media was wrong. There are many studies that proved Hydroxychlorquine was effective at treating Covid-19. There was a study of 3500 patients showed a success rate of 90%. I would love to post it for you but Google has since buried it and it is basically impossible to find. I can understand people not liking the president because of his policy or personality. But do you have to disagree with him even when he's right?


[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html[/url]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Kids need to get back in school this fall...no excuses. Data doesn’t support its more dangerous than flu for kids. Back in the school this fall period

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1254244]Kids need to get back in school this fall...no excuses. Data doesn’t support its more dangerous than flu for kids. Back in the school this fall period[/quote]

I realize you're not use to thinking but what about the danger to the teachers? I mean you seem not to give a rats ass about the health of kids but what about the teachers health?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1254251]I realize you're not use to thinking but what about the danger to the teachers? I mean you seem not to give a rats ass about the health of kids but what about the teachers health?[/quote]

Give 'em some combat boots and throw 'em in there. They know what they signed up for.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1254251]I realize you're not use to thinking but what about the danger to the teachers? I mean you seem not to give a rats ass about the health of kids but what about the teachers health?[/quote]

Good question G1 as I specifically said eff the teachers health and I hate teachers in general

[url]https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks[/url]

What we know for sure...thankfully the Rona doesn’t impact kids like it does adults. Asymptotic spread is still being studied but there is evidence it doesn’t pass as between children like other things.

Look to Europe...they have reopened along with some Asian countries and have been successful.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1254261]Give 'em some combat boots and throw 'em in there. They know what they signed up for.[/quote]

LOL. I know ,right? I swear he gets more like trump every day.