Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1285659]The guy who we cannot mention by name because he is suddenly irrelevant (yeah sure) spent 2 T on tax cuts for the super rich but there is outrage on a possible 2T bill that would actually benefit all Americans. Laughable.
Unless you are a multi millionaire and you stand behind today’s GOP you might as well just wake up every day, punch yourself in the face repeatedly, and go back to sleep.[/quote]

If the proposal was 3t then your post would say spent 3T on tax cuts, if it was 10T then your post would say 10t on tax cuts. Your playing games here with the facts - It was 1.5t in tax cuts. Oh and tax cuts aren't spending and never have been. Tax cuts are going to be off set with increased revenue receipts, spending isn't. As is usually the case the 2017 tax cuts exceeded CBO projections on tax receipts (ie the actual cost was lower than projected thru 2019) and underperformed Republican projections on them. Oh and when if comes to CBO projections on spending effects the actual costs usually exceed their projections (Their assessment of Obamacare being a perfect example of this).

Spending is the issue that never seems to be addressed. BTW Trump was just as bad as a Dem when it came to spending (Guess because in my book he really is a Dem at heart). Spending has it's place but spending like the Greeks recently did doesn't and will lead to disaster.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1285687][B]If the proposal was 3t then your post would say spent 3T on tax cuts, if it was 10T then your post would say 10t on tax cuts.[/B] Your playing games here with the facts - It was 1.5t in tax cuts. Oh and tax cuts aren't spending and never have been. Tax cuts are going to be off set with increased revenue receipts, spending isn't. As is usually the case the 2017 tax cuts exceeded CBO projections on tax receipts (ie the actual cost was lower than projected thru 2019) and underperformed Republican projections on them. Oh and when if comes to CBO projections on spending effects the actual costs usually exceed their projections (Their assessment of Obamacare being a perfect example of this).

[B]Spending is the issue that never seems to be addressed. BTW Trump was just as bad as a Dem when it came to spending[/B] (Guess because in my book he really is a Dem at heart). Spending has it's place but spending like the Greeks recently did doesn't and will lead to disaster.[/quote]

[IMG]https://comedyfestival.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/one-million-dollars.jpg[/IMG]

This times 100. This is why I finally gave up and left the republican party. I thought maybe someone that wasn't a lifetime politician would come in and reduce spending. But nope, Trump spent like a drunk sailor too. Of course counting on a guy with approximately 1012 bankruptcy filings was probably nothing more than wishful thinking, at best, on my part.

It's just spend, spend, spend, spend, yearly deficits, yearly deficits, yearly deficits, increased debt, increased debt, increased debt, increased debt.

It's a fucking joke. The democrats answer is never to decrease spending, it's always to increase taxes. Other people's money is not yours or the governments, its theirs. If they have more than you, that doesn't make it yours or the governments money, it's still all theirs. Stop acting like tax cuts is stealing from you personally. It's a hater mentality in my expressed written opinion.

Note - I make $57,200/year, aka poor in California, so rich people getting tax cuts, isn't something that benefits me directly. I just don't support high taxes on anyone, don't care what your income is. It's legalized theft. You want to talk about a grift. Especially when it's used to fund unlimited government spending.

If I was President, we would all get tax cuts, and lower class/poor Americans wouldn't pay any federal taxes.

Republicans talk about spending cuts, but never ever actually try for them. So they are full of shit. It's just tax cuts and blame democrats. Never any real proposals they put out there that they all get behind to push for real spending cuts.

So it's just the same ole same old. And they all get reelected forever for doing nothing, and eventually can even become president.

Pass a balanced budget you assholes. Just try it once and see how it feels. Kinda like just the tip.

Also, shame on Republicans for not proposing any bills for term limits. This should be done time after time after time. But nope, they are in it for themselves.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

The 2T transportation bill would not increase any personal income tax and "the revenue generated from the bill would pay for itself in 15 years".

I quoted the "pay for itself" part bc I just dont believe that. Not when Trump said it re his tax cuts and not now when Biden says it re this bill.

----------------------

One good thing about trying to pass bills through reconciliation .. .it cant be over 1.5T and cant have any "debt" after 10 years. If my understanding is correct.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

SD I'm just gonna drop these here.

[IMG]https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/6d6020864a884da9b3c5586839cf23f6/1000.jpeg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/V5CMSFET5JFSRHRVFJ36BAGTII.jpg&w=916[/IMG]

Republicans only preach fiscal responsibility when Dems are in power. Frankly, the hypocrisy means I can only care to an extent about the rising deficit because the alternative is everything gets cut and Dems lose power in the next election because they didn't do shit.

I don't care what the number is (I think we can all agree it won't be 6t) as long as an infrastructure bill gets passed. The alternative is our crumbling infrastructure gets worse and we have to spend more on emergency repairs.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1285696][B]SD I'm just gonna drop these here.

Republicans only preach fiscal responsibility when Dems are in power. [/B]Frankly, the hypocrisy means I can only care to an extent about the rising deficit because the alternative is everything gets cut and Dems lose power in the next election because they didn't do shit.

I don't care what the number is (I think we can all agree it won't be 6t) as long as an infrastructure bill gets passed. [B]The alternative is our crumbling infrastructure gets worse and we have to spend more on emergency repairs[/B].[/quote]

I don't disagree with you. I think my above post reflects that. If I wasn't clear enough that they are full of shit on spending, REPUBLICANS ARE FULL OF SHIT ON SPENDING!

I wasn't just discussing this transportation bill specifically, moreso of spending in general in at minimum, my adult life (I'm 38). Although this bill reads more like a green new deal with some infrastructure money added in so it will get votes, and if you don't agree with the bill, you hate America's roads.

I'm all for spending money on freeways, roads, and bridges. Internet too. As Sunny pointed out, this bill spends more on boosting the electric vehicle market than it does on roads. Maybe fix the roads 1st before worrying about what is driving on them.

Give me a 2 trillion bill like this:

1.25 trillion to repair and rebuild bridges, highways and roads;
.25 trillion to expand high-speed broadband across the entire country;
.25 trillion to expand and improve power lines and spur a shift to clean energy; and
.25 trillion to reconnect urban neighborhoods cut off, bulldozed and blighted by highways planned and built with little to no regard for the people who lived along their routes.

And I'd be way more supportive.

Really I think you can cut it down to 1.5 trillion or less by pro-rating each of above accordingly.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1285697]I don't disagree with you. I think my above post reflects that. If I wasn't clear enough that they are full of shit on spending, REPUBLICANS ARE FULL OF SHIT ON SPENDING!

I wasn't just discussing this transportation bill specifically, moreso of spending in general in at minimum, my adult life (I'm 38). Although this bill reads more like a green new deal with some infrastructure money added in so it will get votes, and if you don't agree with the bill, you hate America's roads.

I'm all for spending money on freeways, roads, and bridges. Internet too. As Sunny pointed out, this bill spends more on boosting the electric vehicle market than it does on roads. Maybe fix the roads 1st before worrying about what is driving on them.

Give me a 2 trillion bill like this:

1.25 trillion to repair and rebuild bridges, highways and roads;
.25 trillion to expand high-speed broadband across the entire country;
.25 trillion to expand and improve power lines and spur a shift to clean energy; and
.25 trillion to reconnect urban neighborhoods cut off, bulldozed and blighted by highways planned and built with little to no regard for the people who lived along their routes.

And I'd be way more supportive.

Really I think you can cut it down to 1.5 trillion or less by pro-rating each of above accordingly.[/quote]

I wouldn't disagree with you on your budget for the bill. The only problem I have is how much gov't money has been given to telecom providers to expand internet access in the last 30 years, but we never enforced it so they swindled the gov't and the taxpayers by not building it up to where it should be today. But that's a discussion for another day. Overall I agree with the majority of your post.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1285699]I wouldn't disagree with you on your budget for the bill. The only problem I have is how much gov't money has been given to telecom providers to expand internet access in the last 30 years, but we never enforced it so they swindled the gov't and the taxpayers by not building it up to where it should be today. But that's a discussion for another day. Overall I agree with the majority of your post.[/quote]

Government oversight in general is piss-fucking-poor all around in ensuring that tax money is spent properly on what it was designed for. It's absolutely pathetic. But it's not their money, so they don't care. Not to include any kickbacks they get from those companies.

Cheers.

That's my political posting for the day. Unless I have beer later tonight if work sucks lol.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

The smartest money the government would ever spend would bring in outside 3rd party auditor and go through one area at a time. And then prioritize lean strategy with outside consultation

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1285687]If the proposal was 3t then your post would say spent 3T on tax cuts, if it was 10T then your post would say 10t on tax cuts. Your playing games here with the facts - It was 1.5t in tax cuts. Oh and tax cuts aren't spending and never have been. Tax cuts are going to be off set with increased revenue receipts, spending isn't. As is usually the case the 2017 tax cuts exceeded CBO projections on tax receipts (ie the actual cost was lower than projected thru 2019) and underperformed Republican projections on them. Oh and when if comes to CBO projections on spending effects the actual costs usually exceed their projections (Their assessment of Obamacare being a perfect example of this).

Spending is the issue that never seems to be addressed. BTW Trump was just as bad as a Dem when it came to spending (Guess because in my book he really is a Dem at heart). Spending has it's place but spending like the Greeks recently did doesn't and will lead to disaster.[/QUOTE]


It was 1.9 , or 2 so no, im not playing games with the facts but ill let you and SD get back to your little thing you got going on.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

On paper it was 1.5T bc it had to be for reconciliation, but if the personal tax cut was made permanent it would be 2T.

The more I read about reconciliation, the more I dont think the Dems can pass a 2T reconciliaton bill for 2021.

1. Congress already used their once a year reconciliation bill for Covid relief. Opinion - Rs made them have to do it bc Rs played politics re covid relief when Ds didnt during tranvestite trumps term.

2. Doesnt it have to be limited to 1.5T? The covid bill was 1.9T passed under reconciliation so I really dont know, seems like a cap is sometimes applied. If so, they could pass a bipartisan bill then use a D only reconciliation bill to cover what they wanted that was left out.

--------------------

We will have a transportation bill. Most likely less than 1.5T.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1285711]It was 1.9 , or 2 so no, im not playing games with the facts [B]but ill let you and SD get back to your little thing you got going on[/B].[/quote]

THANKS PUNCH!!!

Apparently this is me and Nonniey because I responded to his comment once.

[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7TKo04SPMnTaWjNC/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Also, there wasn't an income minimum you had to have to get the tax cut. So saying rich people got 2 trillion in tax cuts is not accurate. Wasn't like the tax cut only applied to people making 1 million plus per year.

[url]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-27/the-trump-tax-cut-wasn-t-just-for-the-rich[/url]

[url]https://taxfoundation.org/trump-tax-cuts-who-benefited-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-data-2019/[/url]

You wanna argue that the bill should have have been more favorable to non-rich people fine, I'm all for cutting taxes. Chop away. But to pretend like every dollar went to Scrooge McDuck is not accurate.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

I do not think my premise that a 1.9 (or as i so dramatically put it for effect ) 2 trillion dollar tax cut that GREATLY FAVORS THE RICH, and for the first time in American history, the 400 wealthiest people paid a lower tax rate than any other group (they actually own scrooge mcduck) is kosher to the right, but a 2 trillion dollar infrastructure plan that helps all Americans is a problem is anything other than pretty god damn accurate to be honest.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Good read and I think he hits the nail right on the head.

"What Happened To You?
The radicalization of the American elite against liberalism

By Andrew Sullivan

........In the successor ideology, there is no escape, no refuge, from the ongoing nightmare of oppression and violence — and you are either fighting this and “on the right side of history,” or you are against it and abetting evil. There is no neutrality. No space for skepticism. No room for debate. No space even for staying silent. (Silence, remember, is violence — perhaps the most profoundly anti-liberal slogan ever invented.)

And that tells you about the will to power behind it. Liberalism leaves you alone. The successor ideology will never let go of you. Liberalism is only concerned with your actions. The successor ideology is concerned with your mind, your psyche, and the deepest recesses of your soul. Liberalism will let you do your job, and let you keep your politics private. S.I. will force you into a struggle session as a condition for employment......"

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1285720]THANKS PUNCH!!!

Apparently this is me and Nonniey because I responded to his comment once.

[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7TKo04SPMnTaWjNC/giphy.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Lol

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1285733]Good read and I think he hits the nail right on the head.

"What Happened To You?
The radicalization of the American elite against liberalism

By Andrew Sullivan

........In the successor ideology, there is no escape, no refuge, from the ongoing nightmare of oppression and violence — and you are either fighting this and “on the right side of history,” or you are against it and abetting evil. There is no neutrality. No space for skepticism. No room for debate. No space even for staying silent. (Silence, remember, is violence — perhaps the most profoundly anti-liberal slogan ever invented.)

And that tells you about the will to power behind it. Liberalism leaves you alone. The successor ideology will never let go of you. Liberalism is only concerned with your actions. The successor ideology is concerned with your mind, your psyche, and the deepest recesses of your soul. Liberalism will let you do your job, and let you keep your politics private. S.I. will force you into a struggle session as a condition for employment......"[/quote]

The CRT debate is just the latest squall in a tempest brewing and building for five years or so. And, yes, some of the liberal critiques of a Fox News hyped campaign are well taken. [B]Is this a wedge issue for the GOP? Of course it is. [/B][B]Are they using the term “critical race theory” as a cynical, marketing boogeyman? Of course they are.[/B] Are some dog whistles involved? A few. Are crude bans on public servants’ speech dangerous? Absolutely. Do many of the alarmists know who Derrick Bell was? Of course not.


I have exactly the same principles and support most of the same policies I did under BarackObama. In fact, I’ve moved left on economic and foreign policy since then. It’s Democrats who have taken a sudden, giant swerve away from their recent past.

[url]https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-you-e5f[/url]

^^ this is his main point ... centrist elite liberals are being forced to the far left
-------------

First, Ive noticed writers now (when they have a POV to get to), tend to list the cons early on and quickly summarily dismiss them .. so as to seem balanced or comprehensive or fair in what they are about to say next. Its fine. Very Tucker Carlson esque.

Second, I disagree with his main premise that you cant be liberal anymore and are being forced to be the super woke liberal under this "successor ideology".
He writes well above my IQ and perhaps I am not "elite" and he is .. so I cant say whether the "elites" have been radicalized. Im not "elite" compared to him. Perhaps what he writes is true of what he sees in his small cape cod uber rich seaside town. I live in a townhouse in Columbia Md.

But I disagree with his broad brush premise that you cant just be a Obama level liberal and now are forced to be the super woke "successor ideology".

I think Im a centrist obama type democrat. I want immigration laws to be enforced. I do think Jeremiah Wright is a race baiting idiot who skewed his vision of America, ignoring the progress weve made.

I dont think black inequality in society is solely bc of "white supremacy". I think black communities have equal parts as the root of the problem and solution.

How can he say he hasnt changed .. but then say I am being forced to go from obama liberal to a super woke liberal? Im the same liberal I was 10-15 years ago.

Lastly, his conclusion as a warning that allowing "tribalism" from both sides to define us all will be the end of us .. is a drum that has been beaten by many writers, many times. He seems to think he is the first one ringing that warning bell.

interesting read ... miss its mark though. I feel like he was writing to confirm some bias held by a centrist to far right Republican, and that was his target audience vs a centrist liberal like me ... even though his article was trying to define the current state of affairs of the centrist liberal.

---

please post more articles that you come across, interesting read

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Man hearing libs running cover for another communist failed state in Cuba is something else today. There is zero defense of the Marxist authoritarian Cuban government. Yet ex Obama bros openly on social media suddenly supporting protesters being clubbed in the street or the using false narratives of “this is cause of the embargo” which is propaganda of the Cuban government.

This is how it always works:

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6GvWiQXIAwTauc?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

This should piss off the trump cult.


[url]https://news.yahoo.com/reichstag-moment-book-reveals-joint-122105759.html[/url]


USA TODAY
'Reichstag moment': Joint Chiefs chairman feared Trump was laying groundwork for coup

WASHINGTON – The highest-ranking U.S. officer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley, and other top military leaders made informal plans to stop a coup by former President Donald Trump and his allies in the run-up to the 2020 presidential election, according to excerpts from a new book

"I Alone Can Fix It," written by Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker, describes how Milley and others feared Trump might take unconstitutional actions should he lose. CNN first reported on this excerpt.

The top brass was so disturbed by Trump's rhetoric casting doubt on the legitimacy of the election before it was held that the leaders discussed contingency plans for how to thwart any illegal power grabs by the president, including how and when to resign in protest over his actions.

"They may try, but they're not going to f****** succeed," Milley told his officers, according to Leonnig and Rucker. "You can't do this without the military. You can't do this without the CIA and the FBI. We're the guys with the guns."

Milley's spokesman, Army Col. Dave Butler, declined Thursday to comment on the excerpts.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

As time goes on we're only going to find out more about the Trump WH and what a complete and total shit show it was

[URL="https://www.npr.org/2021/07/15/1015877795/how-it-went-down-authors-go-deep-into-doomed-2020-trump-white-house"]How It Went Down: Authors Go Deep Into Doomed 2020 Trump White House[/URL]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1285940]As time goes on we're only going to find out more about the Trump WH and what a complete and total shit show it was

[URL="https://www.npr.org/2021/07/15/1015877795/how-it-went-down-authors-go-deep-into-doomed-2020-trump-white-house"]How It Went Down: Authors Go Deep Into Doomed 2020 Trump White House[/URL][/quote]

[quote]"If George Washington came back from the dead and he chose Abraham Lincoln as his vice president," Trump told them, "I think it would have been very hard for them to beat me."
[/quote]

Off his goddamn rocker.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

I think he's a legit psychopath, and at the very least a seriously damaged person who is totally disconnected from reality

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1285949]I think he's a legit psychopath, and at the very least a seriously damaged person who is totally disconnected from reality[/QUOTE]


You can stop debating…. The jury is in.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1285948]Off his goddamn rocker.[/quote]

Remember this is the same man who said ...................."Continental Army “took over the airports” from the British during the American Revolutionary War in the 1770s."


[YT]A2SFo3TkvhM[/YT]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1285950]You can stop debating…. The jury is in.[/quote]

:laughing2

Y’all miss him so much.

Still smiling…

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1285955]:laughing2

Y’all miss him so much.

Still smiling…[/quote]

In the end he will have been the biggest boon the Dems have had in awhile ( Dem Senate, Dem House and Dem Presidency all three they can thank the jackass for).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1285955]:laughing2

Y’all miss him so much.

Still smiling…[/quote]

Not as much as sheep such as yourself do!

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1285955]:laughing2

Y’all miss him so much.

Still smiling…[/QUOTE]


I miss Albert Haynesworth more than him…..

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1285963]I miss Albert Haynesworth more than him…..[/quote]

ouch!

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

The democrat/RINO platform is based on spending money that isn't their's. That's it. How can we spend money we didn't make the way we want it to be spent?

They both waste our money, and get reelected in perpetuity by blaming the other side.

Example) Local democrats from Texas got taxpayer funded flights to D.C. to not do their jobs. Then I listened to an interview from Lindsey Graham, who I already don't like, make a joke about about he would leave D.C. to skip a vote. But he wasn't really joking. He would literally do the exact same thing if it benefited him. And on a national level.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1286043]The democrat/RINO platform is based on spending money that isn't their's. That's it. How can we spend money we didn't make the way we want it to be spent?

They both waste our money, and get reelected in perpetuity by blaming the other side.

Example) Local democrats from Texas got taxpayer funded flights to D.C. to not do their jobs. Then I listened to an interview from Lindsey Graham, who I already don't like, make a joke about about he would leave D.C. to skip a vote. But he wasn't really joking. He would literally do the exact same thing if it benefited him. And on a national level.[/quote]

It's called Politics, are you new here?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1286044]It's called Politics, are you new here?[/quote]

Are you new to me thinking politicians work for us? Not the other way around?

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1286045]Are you new to me thinking politicians work for us? Not the other way around?[/quote]

LOL, again, the same question ?Are you new here? Look I get it piss's you off but this is why it matters who you vote for and if they suck, .....you vote them out.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1286043]The democrat/RINO platform is based on spending money that isn't their's. That's it. How can we spend money we didn't make the way we want it to be spent?

They both waste our money, and get reelected in perpetuity by blaming the other side.

Example) Local democrats from Texas got taxpayer funded flights to D.C. to not do their jobs. Then I listened to an interview from Lindsey Graham, who I already don't like, make a joke about about he would leave D.C. to skip a vote. But he wasn't really joking. He would literally do the exact same thing if it benefited him. And on a national level.[/quote]


Gotta disagree about the RINO comment. They spend but not nearly as much as the Trump wing of the Republican party. The "RINOs" (ie conservatives) are the only ones that even raise fiscal restraint at this point. The Trumpsters act like Dems and just don't care. I always like to point out Paul Ryan the "RINO" as he was the only major politician in the last 35 years that actually proposed an effective plan to keep Social Security solvent - both the Dems and the Trumpsters shot this down (Trump outright took the Dem position of don't touch Social Security benefits at all - heck he even made the same baseless attack the Dems used that Ryan's plan would hurt those already on Social Security).

(The idiots in charge of our network at work have blocked this site saying it is a games site. There actually is a game called warpath and some knucklehead security Nazi conflated the two. So my responses in discussions will be delayed).

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[url]https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/20/us-ukraine-russia-pipeline-500334[/url]

Good article about the pipeline gift to Russia. So much for libs ever crying about Russia ever again, no more…if the previous administration had even thought about this the meltdown would have been amazing. The previous administration was head and tales tougher on Russia than Biden’s been.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286071][url]https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/20/us-ukraine-russia-pipeline-500334[/url]

Good article about the pipeline gift to Russia. So much for libs ever crying about Russia ever again, no more…if the previous administration had even thought about this the meltdown would have been amazing. The previous administration was head and tales tougher on Russia than Biden’s been.[/quote]

:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:postcop:

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286071][url]https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/20/us-ukraine-russia-pipeline-500334[/url]

Good article about the pipeline gift to Russia. So much for libs ever crying about Russia ever again, no more…if the previous administration had even thought about this the meltdown would have been amazing. The previous administration was head and tales tougher on Russia than Biden’s been.[/quote]

Good informative article, thank you Chico.

Lots of moving parts and competing interests.

1. Sanctions werent stopping the pipeline which is almost done completion anyway

2. Germany really wanted it and I do think we had to make ally amends

3. Sucks for Ukraine as apparently they will be circumvented and wont get a transit fee

4. Makes Germany and western Europe even more energy dependent on Russia

5. Cheap natural gas from Russia means no incentives to develop green energy and energy alternatives

My take away, it seemed it was going to happen no matter what so we chose to work with an ally in Germany.

This seems to be a though out diplomatic foreign relation decision.

Adults in charge.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Lol…as bad faith as they come which typing it I guess this hides the embarrassment of “Biden would be tougher on Russia” campaign lie. No SS the pipeline wouldn’t get done without lifting sanctions, Biden lifted those. Like I said, don’t ever cry about Russia again. Trump was tougher.

Russian owning Biden administration ala Obama part 2. Continuing Russian hacks with on infrastructure (I’m sure you stand with Biden not to do anything about the China hacks as well) and giving them a crowing energy win while weakening Ukraine and advising them not to speak out about it. That’s pretty terrible

Also, don’t whine about false climate narratives when you agree with a pipeline which goes against green energy strategies against non compliant governments.

If Trump would have allowed the pipeline completion we know what you would have said…more Russian collusion hoaxes…

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

Total project was 1,230 kilometers of underwater pipeline.

As of June 3, they had 100 kilometers left to build.

87.7% complete when Biden lifted sanctions.

Seems like the pipeline was going to be a reality whether we kept sanctions or not.

Anyways ... (by the way .. the russia hacking group wiped itself after Bidens phone call to Putin ...plus I think we hacked their power grid as a tit for tat)

[url]https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-says-nord-stream-2-pipeline-almost-complete-100-km-left-tass-2021-06-03/[/url]

[url]https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/gas-pipeline-nord-stream-2-links-germany-russia-splits-europe[/url]

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1286089]Lol…as bad faith as they come which typing it I guess this hides the embarrassment of “Biden would be tougher on Russia” campaign lie. No SS the pipeline wouldn’t get done without lifting sanctions, Biden lifted those. Like I said, don’t ever cry about Russia again. Trump was tougher.

Russian owning Biden administration ala Obama part 2. Continuing Russian hacks with on infrastructure (I’m sure you stand with Biden not to do anything about the China hacks as well) and giving them a crowing energy win while weakening Ukraine and advising them not to speak out about it. That’s pretty terrible

Also, don’t whine about false climate narratives when you agree with a pipeline which goes against green energy strategies against non compliant governments.

If Trump would have allowed the pipeline completion we know what you would have said…more Russian collusion hoaxes…[/QUOTE]


So fun watching you grasp for straws. And its only been 6 months. In 7 years what is it going to be? The color of his suit? Oh wait that was already a far right battle cry. Well im sure it will be something either petty or twisted like your pipeline dilemma.

Re: Fresh Start Political Thread
 

How bout we talk more about the 179th person Trump surrounded himself with who is going to jail? I know. I know. Pure coincidence.