Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=FRPLG;474317]I would completely disagree. I agree the far right influence has been a disaster for the Repubs but I think the far lefts influence is so ingrained and institutionalized that it no longer even appears as influence. It actually is the party. It has been going on since the 60's. The Repubs are catching up quick though.

The 25% of this country that would identify themselves as democrats but not in the context of their super liberal party get left out in the cold the same way the 25% of Repubs do.

Our country seems to align basically like this.

15 25 20 25 15

left to right.

the problem in both parties is that the 15 percenters run the show.

the 25 percenters are stuck voting for blobs like Kerry/GW because they can't support someone so opposed to their fundamental beliefs.

and the middle 20 percenters vote the guy they like the best regardless of politics.

we need to bust up the two party system something fierce. it is killing us.[/quote]

Great post. There is so much blind party loyalty due to the lack of viable alternatives.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474091]It's hard to imagine anyone doing a shittier job than W, who is perhaps the worst President ever.[/quote]

That's a pretty harsh statement.

The opinion polls are just that, opinion and emotion. Nobody wants to be over in IRAQ and that's a big part of it. I'm sure GW himself would rather not be there, but you can't just pack up and leave. The Dems even know that..most of them.

You can't pin the economy on GW even though most person will. Just like you can't give too much credit to the Clinton Adminstration for the sucesses of the 90's. It relies too much on the past.

Someone asked what was one of his successes. How about America not being attacked in the last 7 years?

Look, i don't like everything GW has done, but he not as evil as some portray him to be.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

He may not be evil but he sure is stupid though not stupid enough not get elected as president twice.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=jsarno;474109][B]No, but the majority of people agreed to go to war, then pulled the rug out from under him[/B]. You also can't blame the rising gas prices solely on him, and those are the two major things people would point to for approval ratings. [/quote]

Agreed to go to war in Afghanistan, not Iraq. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors that got us into Iraq. Whether we should pull out right now is a completely separate question.

[quote=jsarno;474109][B]Also, the people would point to the deficit, yet everyone was more than happy to spend their refund check.[/B] So, no, I would not count any of those against his tenure. [/quote]
That is a complete non sequitur. He increased spending dramatically, and the deficit is at record levels - there really isn't a credible argument against the deficit being his doing.

[quote=jsarno;474109] Approval ratings mean nothing, and you know it. It's like Polls, they are useless.[/quote]
I agree, although they are slightly "less bad".

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;474349]He may not be evil but he sure is stupid though not stupid enough not get elected as president twice.[/quote]

The term "Elected" should be used loosely, at least in 2000.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=redsk1;474348]That's a pretty harsh statement.

The opinion polls are just that, opinion and emotion. Nobody wants to be over in IRAQ and that's a big part of it. I'm sure GW himself would rather not be there, but you can't just pack up and leave. The Dems even know that..most of them.

You can't pin the economy on GW even though most person will. Just like you can't give too much credit to the Clinton Adminstration for the sucesses of the 90's. It relies too much on the past.

Someone asked what was one of his successes. How about America not being attacked in the last 7 years?

Look, i don't like everything GW has done, but he not as evil as some portray him to be.[/quote]

Harsh perhaps... but tell me he's not at least in the discussion when talking about some of the worst Presidents we've seen.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

OK, back to topic (sort of). Did anyone hear this "voicemail" left by McCain for Palin? Whichever side of the aisle you are on, this is good stuff:
[url=http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php]McCain's Voicemail to Palin Leaked to Press (Listen) - 236 - The Room[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=onlydarksets;474361]OK, back to topic (sort of). Did anyone hear this "voicemail" left by McCain for Palin? Whichever side of the aisle you are on, this is good stuff:
[URL="http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php"]McCain's Voicemail to Palin Leaked to Press (Listen) - 236 - The Room[/URL][/quote]


That was well done and funny!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474359]Harsh perhaps... but tell me he's not at least in the discussion when talking about some of the worst Presidents we've seen.[/quote]

Actually, that would be pretty interesting: "Rate the Presidents You Could've Voted For"

Reagan
Bush I
Clinton
Bush II

Though I couldn't vote for him, I would put Carter and Bush II about even.

My bet is that, depending on your leanings, Reagan or Clinton would be at the top.

(Does this count as a threadjack? Can this thread even be threadjacked at this point??)

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;474379]Actually, that would be pretty interesting: "Rate the Presidents You Could've Voted For"

Reagan
Bush I
Clinton
Bush II

Though I couldn't vote for him, I would put Carter and Bush II about even.

My bet is that, depending on your leanings, Reagan or Clinton would be at the top.

(Does this count as a threadjack? Can this thread even be threadjacked at this point??)[/quote]

Could be a good thread. But we'd have to draw the line somewhere. I mean Curmudgeon goes back to the Hoover administration.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=onlydarksets;474361]OK, back to topic (sort of). Did anyone hear this "voicemail" left by McCain for Palin? Whichever side of the aisle you are on, this is good stuff:
[URL="http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php"]McCain's Voicemail to Palin Leaked to Press (Listen) - 236 - The Room[/URL][/quote]
After I saw that site and all its bashing of Sarah Palin I thought maybe a fact check on this stuff going around on the net.

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html]FactCheck.org: Sliming Palin[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=onlydarksets;474361]OK, back to topic (sort of). Did anyone hear this "voicemail" left by McCain for Palin? Whichever side of the aisle you are on, this is good stuff:
[URL="http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php"]McCain's Voicemail to Palin Leaked to Press (Listen) - 236 - The Room[/URL][/quote]


I'm dying from laughter!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;474388]After I saw that site and all its bashing of Sarah Palin I thought maybe a fact check on this stuff going around on the net.

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html]FactCheck.org: Sliming Palin[/url][/quote]

Well, in Sandra's defense, she's only a Senator of Arkansas - how is she going to affect drastic change in Alaska?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Let's fact check McCain and the GOP to be fair

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_mccain.html]FactCheck.org: FactChecking McCain[/url]

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin.html]FactCheck.org: GOP Convention Spin[/url]

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html]FactCheck.org: GOP Convention Spin, Part II[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

There's a lot of ignorance and misinformation about all the candidates. We're all guilty of it to some extent. It's been that way for decades. That said...a little levity and humor never hurts. In the words of 70Chip..."all work and no play makes me...Al Gore" or something like that.

That Palin voicemail was hilarious, no matter what side of the fence you're on. Sure, there's a danger that some people will actually take this as fact. One the other hand, satire is one of the great things about this country. I don't think you can do that with political leaders in a lot of places.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

You will only find "spin-free" info if you want to.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;474393]There's a lot of ignorance and misinformation about all the candidates. We're all guilty of it to some extent. It's been that way for decades. That said...a little levity and humor never hurts. In the words of 70Chip..."all work and no play makes me...Al Gore" or something like that.

That Palin voicemail was hilarious, no matter what side of the fence you're on. Sure, there's a danger that some people will actually take this as fact. One the other hand, satire is one of the great things about this country. I don't think you can do that with political leaders in a lot of places.[/quote]
I was a little surprised that anybody would take anything seriously from a site called "23/6 - Some of the News, Most of the Time". That's like fact checking The Onion.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

How about that new McCain spot Education eh?

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Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Don't you just love this woman?

[yt]ieuA7nAOBXQ[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474091]It's hard to imagine anyone doing a shittier job than W, who is perhaps the worst President ever.[/quote]

I would have to say James Buchanan is the worst president in history, since he basically lead us into the civil war, but Bush is for sure second.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;474466]Don't you just love this woman?

[yt]ieuA7nAOBXQ[/yt][/quote]

I know crap like this is the name of the game in politics, but it just gets so frustrating to hear them constantly talking out of both sides of their mouths. :doh:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;474466]Don't you just love this woman?[/quote]

Yeah, her nose isn't clean when it comes to earmarks. But, there are very few Govs and Senators who don't have their hand in the cookie jar. The most prominent earmark/pork barrel advocate is Robert Byrd (a senior Dem in the Senate), who openly says it's the job of congressmen and governors to secure money for their states.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/2739434687_a4d190dcbf.jpg?v=0[/img]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Good find GDAS.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=onlydarksets;474361]OK, back to topic (sort of). Did anyone hear this "voicemail" left by McCain for Palin? Whichever side of the aisle you are on, this is good stuff:
[url=http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php]McCain's Voicemail to Palin Leaked to Press (Listen) - 236 - The Room[/url][/quote]

That is freaking hilarious.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;474605][IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/2739434687_a4d190dcbf.jpg?v=0[/IMG][/quote]

LOL good stuff, but hey let's demonize the guy in the middle over a bj.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;474605][IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/2739434687_a4d190dcbf.jpg?v=0[/IMG][/quote]
Funny part is that in these cases the congress who controls spending was controled by dems. Not so much in the Bush Jr and our surplus years it was controled by what many say was the most conservative run rep. congress. So great find.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

first, top dog always gets the credit/ heat no matter how deserving he was. i just think president Clinton was alot better politician then the G.O.P would ever give him credit for

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;474703]Funny part is that in these cases the congress who controls spending was controled by dems. Not so much in the Bush Jr and our surplus years it was controled by what many say was the most conservative run rep. congress. So great find.[/quote]

But with Reagan and both Bushes, they had veto power. George W. never saw a spending bill he didn't like.

Make no mistake, the notion that Republicans are fiscally conservative is one of the biggest myths out there.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;474726]Make no mistake, the notion that Republicans are fiscally conservative is one of the biggest myths out there.[/quote]

And it's what's killing the party.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;474718][B]first, top dog always gets the credit/ heat no matter how deserving he was.[/B] i just think president Clinton was alot better politician then the G.O.P would ever give him credit for[/quote]

Yep, just like a head coach in football.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;474726]But with Reagan and both Bushes, they had veto power. George W. never saw a spending bill he didn't like.

Make no mistake, the notion that Republicans are fiscally conservative is one of the biggest myths out there.[/quote]
First off McCain, Bush 1 & 2 are rep. and not conservatives. Bush should have used his veto power more but to curb spending we also have to have congress to stop attaching other stuff to bills driving up spending.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;474718]first, top dog always gets the credit/ heat no matter how deserving he was. i just think president Clinton was alot better politician then the G.O.P would ever give him credit for[/quote]
I think the GOP knew he was a great politician but not a great president. He gets credit for what he did but I'm also happy we had a rep. congress to ofset his far left views.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;474763]First off McCain, Bush 1 & 2 are rep. and not conservatives. Bush should have used his veto power more but to curb spending we also have to have congress to stop attaching other stuff to bills driving up spending.[/quote]

Line-Item Veto baby!

Seriously though, it's a good point that people tend to forget. The fact that bills are almost never only about what the title implies.

Honestly, it's like y'all never saw the classic Simpsons' episode "Mr. Spritz Goes to Washington"

"Janitor, to Homer: "That southern congressman is your biggest obstacle. You have to drink him under the table so he misses the vote tomorrow."
To Lisa: "Now your job is to attach Krusty's bill to a more popular bill, one that can't fail."
Rep.: "The House will now consider the Flags for Orphans bill."
After passage, Krusty: "The system worked. I have become enchanted and illusioned with Washington."

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;474788]Line-Item Veto baby!

Seriously though, it's a good point that people tend to forget. The fact that bills are almost never only about what the title implies.

Honestly, it's like y'all never saw the classic Simpsons' episode "Mr. Spritz Goes to Washington"

"Janitor, to Homer: "That southern congressman is your biggest obstacle. You have to drink him under the table so he misses the vote tomorrow."
To Lisa: "Now your job is to attach Krusty's bill to a more popular bill, one that can't fail."
Rep.: "The House will now consider the Flags for Orphans bill."
After passage, Krusty: "The system worked. I have become enchanted and illusioned with Washington."[/quote]
If I'm correct line item veto passed but was challanged in court and it was ruled unconstitutional. I think because it was changing the original bill which was voted on and the president would be over reaching their power.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

The problem with defecits is with us and not the politicians. We all hate pork in theory, but when it benefits us, our family, our friends, or our neighbors, we call it good government.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=70Chip;474856]The problem with defecits is with us and not the politicians. We all hate pork in theory, but when it benefits us, our family, our friends, or our neighbors, we call it good government.[/quote]

All I know is that some of the worst times of my life occurred when we had a deficit. Living in America really sucked until that $200 billion surplus. Now it sucks again. The ruination that is my life can only be attributed to the evil deficit. Stupid fiscals! I hope Obama can give us a good surplus so my life will be better.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Back on topic...Sarah "The Robot" Palin did her first national interview today...she done did good if cluelessness is the objective.

CAUTION: THIS VIDEO IS PAINFUL TO WATCH. VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.
[yt]Z75QSExE0jU[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Saden:

I do not think it was fair to ask Palin, "Do you agree with the Bush Doctrine?" The "Bush Doctrine" has never been clearly defined; it encompasses several different ideas. I spent less than 5 minutes googling the "Bush Doctrine" and, according to a few articles in well known sources (e.g., the WaPo), the "Bush Doctrine" has been used to refer to the notion that: (1) terrorists must be defeated; (2) our nation has the right to wage preventative wars; (3) allowing terrorists to reside in your country is the same as supporting terrorism; (4) it is okay to use force unilaterally and in the face of opposition by international organizations such as the UN; and (5) it is okay to use force against any state that is trying to acquire nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

It was a vague and dumb question that can't be answered with asking a question like, "Could you tell me what you mean by the 'Bush Doctrine?'" To me, it sounds like a question that is clearly designed to make Palin look dumb because there isn't a real answer to it.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Is anyone watching the forum tonight?