Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541903]Of course he's made some nice plays...but at the end of the day he averages 1 or 2 TD's a game. Look I am not a Campbell basher...and I don't want to start being one. I am more pro Cutler then I am anti Campbell. If Cutler is off the table I am happy to go into the season with Campbell.[/quote]
If Cutler is going to cost two # 1s then he should be off the table, the difference between Cutler and Campbell is not that great to give up even a single # 1. I said initially Campbell and a 3rd would be the most I'd give up.

- What's Cutler going to do with sub 5'10" starting receivers and an old/injury prone OL?
- If you look at his game logs, he's not setting the world on fire week-in & week-out. He'll have a monster game (usually against a sub-par D) and then throw 2 picks and an 0 TDs.
- Outside of the first 3 games of 2008, the Denver O wasn't "lighting it up" by any means.
- By the middle of the season, folks in Denver were talking about Cutler being a bust and possibly gone after 2008.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;541913]If Cutler is going to cost two # 1s then he should be off the table, the difference between Cutler and Campbell is not that great to give up even a single # 1. I said initially Campbell and a 3rd would be the most I'd give up.

- What's Cutler going to do with sub 5'10" starting receivers and an old/injury prone OL?
- If you look at his game logs, he's not setting the world on fire week-in & week-out. He'll have a monster game (usually against a sub-par D) and then throw 2 picks and an 0 TDs.
- Outside of the first 3 games of 2008, the Denver O wasn't "lighting it up" by any means.
- By the middle of the season, folks in Denver were talking about Cutler being a bust and possibly gone after 2008.[/quote]

They're saying that Denver doesn't want Campbell

so obviously they're putting their stock in Simms, the draft, or somebody else in the mix's qb (umm who has one better than campbell?)

I like campbell but things like this show how we seem to overvalue our players, we can't even ship the guy we say we need to give a chance to become our franchise qb, kinda telling no?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I just dont understand this. Cutler, yes, is better than Jason Campbell at this point. And I disagree with a ton of people on this board, and I think Campbell has done a pretty good job since he got started here. They're going to trade all this crap for Cutler, which is just going to open more holes. I'm sorry, but Joe Montana would have stunk the second half of last year behind that offensive line, and I dont care who goes back there next year, if the line isnt better, they're going to get killed. I dont understand why we arent just using the 13 pick on a tackle, who can probaboly step in and be better than Jansen/Heyer disaster that was there last year.

Adding Landry or Cooley into the mix (although I dont think either of those will really happen), is just idiotic beyond belief. Cooley is exactly what we shoudl be looking to re-create with this team. A player who we drafted and turned into a guy who could be with and the face of the franchise for 15 years. I really wont touch too much on Landry or Cooley because I dont think that will really happen in either case....

Overall, I just dont see how were upgrading the team making a move like this. Sending two first rounders to Denver for Cutler instead of keeping the 13 pick, using it on a tackle, or trading down and trying to get mutiple picks to get a tackle and a LB or DE... I just don't get this front office. I was never a guy who disagreed with the way they ran things, because they always did something that I thought was making the team better...but this really is the end of the line for me thinking they have a clue as to what they're doing. It does not make the team better in my opinion... and to all the people who say "Hey look what happened the second half of the season to Jason Campbell and the Redskins".... I say, look what happened in Denver... they tanked worse than we did against terrible teams... at least we (save Cincinatti) lost to teams that were at least somewhat decent (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NYG, Dallas), heck even SF was on the way up when we lost that game... I mean Denver tanked in a terrible AFC West...

If this was just Cutler for Campbell, than fine, but we're (as ususal) going to take care of someone elses problems and overpay like a Mo-Fo.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;541913]If Cutler is going to cost two # 1s then he should be off the table, the difference between Cutler and Campbell is not that great to give up even a single # 1. I said initially Campbell and a 3rd would be the most I'd give up.

- What's Cutler going to do with sub 5'10" starting receivers and an old/injury prone OL?
- If you look at his game logs, he's not setting the world on fire week-in & week-out. He'll have a monster game (usually against a sub-par D) and then throw 2 picks and an 0 TDs.
- Outside of the first 3 games of 2008, the Denver O wasn't "lighting it up" by any means.
- By the middle of the season, folks in Denver were talking about Cutler being a bust and possibly gone after 2008.[/quote]

We just differ on how good we think Cutler is. It's pretty clear that the people inside the NFL place a far greater value on Cutler then you do.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;541913]If Cutler is going to cost two # 1s then he should be off the table, the difference between Cutler and Campbell is not that great to give up even a single # 1. I said initially Campbell and a 3rd would be the most I'd give up.

- What's Cutler going to do with sub 5'10" starting receivers and an old/injury prone OL?
- If you look at his game logs, he's not setting the world on fire week-in & week-out. He'll have a monster game (usually against a sub-par D) and then throw 2 picks and an 0 TDs.
- Outside of the first 3 games of 2008, the Denver O wasn't "lighting it up" by any means.
- By the middle of the season, folks in Denver were talking about Cutler being a bust and possibly gone after 2008.[/quote]

I said before I don't want to get into Campbell bashing becasue that's not my MO...but I am tired of the bad OL crutch we give Campbell. The Steelers OL was horrible for most of the season and Ben always managed to make the playes needed for them to win. Do you think they would have won the Super Bowl with Campbell as starter?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Ben wasn't learning another new offense on top of having a bad OL. Ben also has more weapons and a better running game and defense.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541903]Of course he's made some nice plays...but at the end of the day he averages 1 or 2 TD's a game. Look I am not a Campbell basher...and I don't want to start being one. I am more pro Cutler then I am anti Campbell. If Cutler is off the table I am happy to go into the season with Campbell.[/quote]

Cutler averages 1 or 2 INTs a game and is a petulant little crybaby. Campbell is a team player who has proven he can be GREAT and play mistake-free football while going down field and make us a winner...if the team around him holds up. Even after the line fell apart and the rookie WRs failed to show up, he made a lot of plays out of nothing on his own. He's more mobile and accurate than Cutler.

Those clips were more than "nice plays". They show he understands the position, sees the field and can turn broken plays into big gains both on the ground and in the air. They also show that he's still getting better. He did have a fumbling problem two years ago. Last season, not only was that issue resolved, but he didn't throw any picks for half the season. Cutler is an interception machine. Look at Campbell's pocket presence in those clips...or any clip where he's not being sacked within 2 seconds. His feet are always moving and he's always scanning through his WRs. He honestly looks like Peyton Manning in that aspect. He doesn't have Peyton's arm, but he does have a very good, strong arm and can pull the ball in and take off for a 20+yard run if everyone is covered.

Long-term, I trust Campbell a LOT more than Cutler. Not only because he'll do his job without crying, but because he has steadily been getting better every year and I expect his development and success to continue.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Well, look at the upside.

Think of all the jerseys that will be sold on the team's website if we acquire Cutler!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;541939]Well, look at the upside.

Think of all the jerseys that will be sold on the team's website if we acquire Cutler![/quote]

And yet another useless jersey of a former player sitting in my closet collecting dust. :doh:

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541940]And yet another useless jersey of a former player sitting in my closet collecting dust. :doh:[/quote]
nostalgia baby

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;541939]Well, look at the upside.

Think of all the jerseys that will be sold on the team's website if we acquire Cutler![/quote]The latest rumor is the deal is done and they are just waiting on one of the tech guys to make up a "preorder Cutler jerseys now" banner for redskins.com.:)

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;541939]Well, look at the upside.

Think of all the jerseys that will be sold on the team's website if we acquire Cutler![/quote]

Think of all of the pissed off fans with #17 jerseys.

I guess they can get D. WILLIAMS nameplates for them.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;541942]The latest rumor is the deal is done and they are just waiting on one of the tech guys to make up a "preorder Cutler jerseys now" banner for redskins.com.:)[/quote]

Shut yo' mouth!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541936]Ben wasn't learning another new offense on top of having a bad OL. Ben also has more weapons and a better running game and defense.[/quote]

I think the skins running game was better but I agree on the rest. And yes the redskins have stunted Campbells growth with all the new offenses...but it is what it is. Campbell got a raw deal in Washington with all this and I feel bad for him personally, but what's important to all of us is who is the best QB for the redskins in 2009 and beyond.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Frank Hammerhan is on ESPN980 right now and he just said that Zorn has no say in any of this. Earlier in the offseason, Zorn specifically told Cerrato and Snyder that he beleived Campbell would be successful in this system... then Cerrato and Snyder do this, without his input.

This lends alot of weight to the rumors that the endgame is to land both Cutler and Shannahan.

According to Hammerhan, Snyder and Cerrato like Campbells work ethic and attitude, but they don't think he has the "IT factor." In thier opinion, Cutler does. Although the implication is that Snyder and Cerrato are both behind this, reports yesterday indicated that Cerrato was in a draft meeting when he was called out by Snyder - All evidence points to this being 100% Snyder's doing. All opinions aside on Cutler vs. Campbell, this is the most disturbing news in all of this - Snyder is still in complete control. Snyder makes all the decisions. New title aside, nothing changed in our front office: Cerrato is still just a puppet and Snyder continues to pull all the strings.

Also, for those of you able to tune in, Jason Campbell, who is at Redskins Park right now, will be on 980 at 1:45PM.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=tryfuhl;541915]They're saying that Denver doesn't want Campbell

so obviously they're putting their stock in Simms, the draft, or somebody else in the mix's qb (umm who has one better than campbell?)

I like campbell but things like this show how we seem to overvalue our players, we can't even ship the guy we say we need to give a chance to become our franchise qb, kinda telling no?[/quote]

Its very telling. Why would Denver or anyone want Campbell? Everyone but Skins fans realize he's not going to get better.

I am not sold on Cutler as a franchise QB but I think he would be a huge improvement over JC. I'm not sure the Skins need a franchise QB but they do need a QB that can make quick reads, and get the ball out fast. He also needs to be able to throw downfield. I think Cutler can do that. Is he the next Tom Brady, I doubt it but he's better than most of the QBs out there.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

What I am hoping for is the same thing that happened when Snyder wanted to hire Jim Fassel. The message boards freaked out and Snyder was swayed not to hire him.

Don't do it!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=wilsowilso;541954]What I am hoping for is the same thing that happened when Snyder wanted to hire Jim Fassel. The message boards freaked out and Snyder was swayed not to hire him.

Don't do it![/quote]

I don't think that there's nearly the same sway in this scenario though.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Ruhskins;540968]Yes, he is a crybaby. Trading players is part of the NFL business, and Cutler should know that. You know who's a QB that didn't bitch and whine when there were trade rumors about him? Jason Campbell.[/quote]

That's because Soup is a professional and has class.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Man, they're barely even touching the other teams in the hunt for Cutler, they're sold on us wanting him hard.. they're not even going into scenarios with other teams really.. but they're analyzing us hard

wonder Zorn's take.. sure he said Campbell could become the QB of the future, but wonder how he feels about Cutler.. I mean he's gotta love the potential, but who knows what else

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Hate to reference Peter King, but he just said on the Herd that he thinks Campbell is on the verge of being a top ten qb, and furthermore, if Snyder owned the Giants in 84, he would have gotten rid of Simms. Sad but likely true.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

the one thing that worries me most is that Cutler has never won, at any level. he is obviously a big upgrade over Mr. Campbell. but this league is all about winning. and im not sure how much longer, and how many more seasons can go by, with the redskin faithful waiting for a pro bowl qback to emerge out of Jason Campbell. i say lets do it

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=wilsowilso;541954]What I am hoping for is the same thing that happened when Snyder wanted to hire Jim Fassel. The message boards freaked out and Snyder was swayed not to hire him.

Don't do it![/quote]

I thought of that too, and I have the same hope!

Interesting that the warpath poll (86 votes) and the washpost poll (1550+) both have 68% that say NO to the cutler trade.

I'm encouraged by those results. It says that the true hardcore fans (at least those that read all things skins during the offseason) feel that this deal is not good for the team.

Colin Cowherd was just saying that the only teams interested in cutler are dysfunctional in so many words, and have a history of poor evaluation of the qb position. While I could argue the details, I can't say he's overall wrong.

Memo to Danny boy: Skins fans are having a hard time disagreeing w/Colin Cowherd on this one.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;541948]Frank Hammerhan is on ESPN980 right now and he just said that Zorn has no say in any of this. Earlier in the offseason, Zorn specifically told Cerrato and Snyder that he beleived Campbell would be successful in this system... then Cerrato and Snyder do this, without his input.

This lends alot of weight to the rumors that the endgame is to land both Cutler and Shannahan.

According to Hammerhan, Snyder and Cerrato like Campbells work ethic and attitude, but they don't think he has the "IT factor." In thier opinion, Cutler does. Although the implication is that Snyder and Cerrato are both behind this, reports yesterday indicated that Cerrato was in a draft meeting when he was called out by Snyder - All evidence points to this being 100% Snyder's doing. [B]All opinions aside on Cutler vs. Campbell, this is the most disturbing news in all of this - Snyder is still in complete control. Snyder makes all the decisions. New title aside, nothing changed in our front office: Cerrato is still just a puppet and Snyder continues to pull all the strings.[/B]

Also, for those of you able to tune in, Jason Campbell, who is at Redskins Park right now, will be on 980 at 1:45PM.[/quote]

That suspicion was confirmed for me when they signed Haynesworth on day one of free agency.

For me, Snyder's influence won't be gone until Vinny is gone and a well respected GM comes to the club. Unfortunately, as witnessed when Marty was here, Snyder won't relinquish his roster influence so he won't try to hire that kind of GM.


We're in a perpetual regressive motion caused by Snyder's ego and the catch is only Snyder's humility will get us out.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=GridIron26;541889]I just don't know what to say, I'm in disbelieve I guess..

SmootSmack, what's ur take on this - do u think this actually would happen?[/quote]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/541767-post472.html[/url]

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Larry Michael is Satan;541962]Hate to reference Peter King, but he just said on the Herd that he thinks Campbell is on the verge of being a top ten qb, and furthermore, if Snyder owned the Giants in 84, he would have gotten rid of Simms. Sad but likely true.[/quote]

Peter also said and I quote "I think Spurrier will win big"

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

This thread has gotten way out of hand with the number of posts in it, but I wanted to weigh in. We should absolutely not trade for a QB.

If you took Cutler and put him in the Redskins offense last year, he would not have put up better numbers than Campbell did. When you have a new offense, no decent #2 or #3 WR to throw to, and a terrible RT situation as well as substandard interior OL play, I'd assert that Campbell's numbers are really about as good as you can expect. Cutler would not have done appreciably better.

I think the QB gets too much credit when things go right and too much blame when things go wrong. He's the most important player on the field, but not more important than the other 10 guys combined. We need to shore up the spots around him and let him develop, then we'll be in good shape.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Schneed10;541990]This thread has gotten way out of hand with the number of posts in it, but I wanted to weigh in. We should absolutely not trade for a QB.

If you took Cutler and put him in the Redskins offense last year, he would not have put up better numbers than Campbell did. When you have a new offense, no decent #2 or #3 WR to throw to, and a terrible RT situation as well as substandard interior OL play, I'd assert that Campbell's numbers are really about as good as you can expect. Cutler would not have done appreciably better.

I think the QB gets too much credit when things go right and too much blame when things go wrong. He's the most important player on the field, but not more important than the other 10 guys combined. We need to shore up the spots around him and let him develop, then we'll be in good shape.[/quote]

Schneed, do we even have the cap space to do this?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I think Cutler is a great QB, that doesn't mean i think we should trade for him. However, memo to the FO since they seem intent on following this thing thru:

We hold all of the cards here, we don't have to do anything, DO NOT overpay the Broncs 2 first round draft picks for Cutler. Let me repeat, please do not give up too much. We are in the driver's seat! We don't have to do anything. Tell the Broncs what we'll give up and if they don't take it. Tell them to go to another team.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=redsk1;542003]I think Cutler is a great QB, that doesn't mean i think we should trade for him. However, memo to the FO since they seem intent on following this thing thru:

[B]We hold all of the cards here[/B], we don't have to do anything, DO NOT overpay the Broncs 2 first round draft picks for Cutler. Let me repeat, please do not give up too much. We are in the driver's seat! We don't have to do anything. Tell the Broncs what we'll give up and if they don't take it. Tell them to go to another team.[/quote]

Unfortunately, Snyder's obsession trumps this completely. Once again, I hope that Denver realizes that they can get much better offers from other teams than the Redskins.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Here's a possible scenario: Skins don't get the deal done, Campbell has great year playing with chip on his shoulder, Campbell signs somewhere stable due to all the bullshit he has had to tolerate in his time here.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Ruhskins;541995]Schneed, do we even have the cap space to do this?[/quote]

That's a good question. Cutler is still in his rookie deal isn't he? so he wouldn't be too expensive as is, but he'll want a new deal of course. I would guess from a cap standpoint he would put us in much the same situation as JC is; last year of his rookie deal.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I don't think cap space is a problem here. I don't know what Cutler is making, but I don't think it's prohibitive because as others have said, he's in his rookie contract. Trading Campbell away would free up $2.8 million in space, which Cutler should be able to fit under, for the most part.

So it's probably not a cap issue. It's a football issue, for me. It just doesn't make sense.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I'm hoping our past idiocy (shipping away draft picks for unsuccessful players) will save us from our current idiocy. Maybe our needs and lack of draft picks will outweigh the urge to grab the biggest name out there. Maybe.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Larry Michael is Satan;542008]Here's a possible scenario: Skins don't get the deal done, Campbell has great year playing with chip on his shoulder, Campbell signs somewhere stable due to all the bullshit he has had to tolerate in his time here.[/quote]

I wouldn't mind this, b/c this mean we keep our #13 and will be able to draft a young stud for either line, and we keep our picks for next year as well. A chip on his should would be another motivator (in addition of being on a contract year) for Campbell.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=redsk1;542003]I think Cutler is a great QB, that doesn't mean i think we should trade for him. However, memo to the FO since they seem intent on following this thing thru:

[B]We hold all of the cards here, we don't have to do anything, DO NOT overpay the Broncs 2 first round draft picks for Cutler. Let me repeat, please do not give up too much. We are in the driver's seat![/B] We don't have to do anything. Tell the Broncs what we'll give up and if they don't take it. Tell them to go to another team.[/quote]

I completely agree.

What leverage do they have? Let's see...McDaniels doesn't want him as his QB and Cutler doesn't want to speak to coaches or the FO...how is he going to go back and play for Denver after this?

It seems like they almost have to move him so what buffoon would give up so much for him? We'll find out soon if he gets traded for two 1st round picks.

Whoever gets Cutler is taking a problem away from the Broncos. If they don't want to yield their trade demands then let him play for Denver next year.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

My first post -- couldn't resist the frenzy. I can't help but keep refreshing this thread for updates. It's funny how our offseasons are usually as exciting as the season itself. (And that's not a good thing...)

I think that our O-line sucks & gets older every year, and was one of the reasons JC sucked the last half of last year. So the options are to start to upgrade the line this year (Oher/Smith if we're lucky) or wait until next year. But key question is: How often does a great O-line player come around vs. a great QB?

If we did the smart thing & upgrade the line this year, we'd be stuck next year with a decision -- whether to renew JC's contract next year. Would we know by then? After years of watching him, I'd bet we'd still be wondering about him. And are there any quality QB's coming out next year?

The flip side is Cutler is regarded as a franchise QB. Whether it's true is debatable given the INTs and the emotional baggage. BUT, if we got him - we'd have a QB hopefully for the next 10 years. Surely by then Snyder would figure out to draft O-line. Just have to hope Cutler doesn't get too hurt in the interval years when our O-line sucks (especially with the D-lines in our division alone)

Got to admit, I'd love to see an offense where we actually throw more than 5-10 yards down the field. I miss the days of the Posse.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Schneed10;542019]I don't think cap space is a problem here. I don't know what Cutler is making, but I don't think it's prohibitive because as others have said, he's in his rookie contract. Trading Campbell away would free up $2.8 million in space, which Cutler should be able to fit under, for the most part.

So it's probably not a cap issue. It's a football issue, for me. It just doesn't make sense.[/quote]

I've heard Cutler's cap number is $1 million next year with a trade.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

An update from JLC, why are the Redskins trying to make something out of nothing? They don't have the picks to trade for Cutler, just give it up. Can someone get Gibbs on the line and get him to calm Snyder down?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jay-cutler-update.html]Redskins Insider - Jay Cutler Update[/url]

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;542032]I've heard Cutler's cap number is $1 million next year with a trade.[/quote]
just a touch over I believe