Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=FRPLG;804535]I'm not a huge Young fan but he is right when he says pro-bowl QBs don't get kicked to the curb very often. I'm not sure what that means though. Is it a good thing for VY or bad?[/quote]

FWIW, Culpepper got kicked to the curb. As did Jeff Garcia.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;804554]Why go through the BS in signing the guy if he is a gamble and a waste of time and say miss out on a possible chance at Palmer, etc. We really needed to sign a QB in the first round. Kerrigan was a great pick, but moving him to OLB is a gamble in itself.[/quote]

Ah, but if Young stinks it up, we'll be picking high in the first round, thus getting that next new young gun rookie specimen of sexiness. ;)

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;804567]Ah, but if Young stinks it up, we'll be picking high in the first round, thus getting that next new young gun rookie specimen of sexiness. ;)[/quote]

Nah, the year after next years class will be better.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804558]There was a time when Palmer may have been one of the more underrated QBs in the league, now he may be one of the more overrated.

I'm sure he'll be fine somewhere, but I don't want any QB brought here that's older than the guys we have.[/quote]

No doubt, I don't want anything to do with Palmer right now.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote]Quarterback John Beck photocopied the team’s playbook and handed it out to all 10 rookies in attendance at the workouts this week, so Royster finally has been able to see what the Redskins plays look like. Fullback Mike Sellers has served as positional coach, explaining the running backs’ tasks and responsibilities, and critiquing Royster and fellow rookie Roy Helu’s execution.[/quote]

He had to have gone to FedEx or Kinko's. Lol, I wonder though how Shanahan feels about the possibility of some college part timer getting full access to the Redskins playbook. Of course I have no idea how one person could have photocopied 10 copies of our playbook. That has to at least be 400 pages each meaning 40,000 trees murdered by John Beck. I guess thats just another notch in his belt to go [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-beck-with-dead-animals/2011/05/23/AFpk6i9G_blog.html"]with all the animals he killed.[/URL]

In other news: [url=http://www.reservationforsix.com/2011/02/teams-considering-replacing-playbook.html]Teams considering replacing playbook with iPad[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;804561]I agree. [B]I'll take Vince Young over Palmer[/B]. If we had a team that was ready to compete for a title minus a QB, then I'd want Palmer, but we're getting young, it feels like we're finally moving on from Gibbs team.

I still think its pretty disappointing we didn't draft a QB in the draft. Who knows how any of these guys will work out, but I would feel more comfortable with a guy we at least had to play in the next year or so. If Beck falls flat on his face, it sets it back another year.

I'm not so concerned who starts for this team week 1 of next year (hopefully there is a week 1)... I'm looking to know who is starting week 1 next year.[/quote]

So would I. He's younger, higher potential upside, and he won't cost us draft picks to get him here.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;804592]So would I. He's younger, higher potential upside, and he won't cost us draft picks to get him here.[/quote]

As much as I don't want VY here, I would agree with this and others. I'd rather have VY than Palmer. I don't think Palmer is a good fit for this offense anyway.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804619]As much as I don't want VY here, I would agree with this and others. I'd rather have VY than Palmer. [B]I don't think Palmer is a good fit for this offense anyway[/B].[/quote]

Neither do I. For whatever reason CP's mechanics have broken down over the past few years, analysts point out his poor footwork as a reason for some of his struggles. #5 had the same kind of issues, we don't need to go down that road again.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804619]As much as I don't want VY here, I would agree with this and others. I'd rather have VY than Palmer. I don't think Palmer is a good fit for this offense anyway.[/quote]

Nor do you want to waste picks in order to bring a QB to compete. If the team brings VY, he'll have to compete for the QB position.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;804534]I like the comparison to Vick's situation.[/quote]

I just don't see it that way. Vick is/was always the better QB and was w/out quesation the most valuable player on Atl. Plus he was rushing for 1,000 yards. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts on a defense? He always had a quick compact release and had the potential to be a very good passer. I'd call VY kind of a poor man's Michael Vick pre Philly. I don't think we'll ever see VY with a 21td 6 int ratio and Vick did that in what....12 starts or so?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;804359][URL="http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/13/vince-young-strip-club-fight-assault-tennesse-titans-university-of-texas-longhorns/"]Tennessee Titans Quarterback Vince Young Fight over University of Texas Longhorn Smack Talk | TMZ.com[/URL]


[URL="http://beat.bodog.eu/sports/vince-young-goes-missing-titans-call-police-65355.html"]Vince Young Goes Missing, Titans Call Police - Bodog Beat[/URL]

[URL="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/523977-titans-vince-young-walks-out-on-team-after-benching"]Titans' Vince Young Walks Out on Team After Benching | Bleacher Report[/URL]


I'm not even going to include the articles where there is talk that he isn't willing to put the time and dedication into his craft at the QB position. He was referred to as a guy who would be last to show up, and first to roll out. I've seen enough from this kid to know I don't want him within 1,000 miles of DC, unless he's playing against us.

Walking out on the team and teammates sealed the deal for me. We already have a guy like that. His name is Haynesworthless.[/quote]

See, this is why I can't understand why anyone would want this loser here. Like I said before, if we were a solid winning organization then I'd be all for it. But coming off the AH mess why would they want to bring in this mentally weak, soft, crybaby that is lazy and fights with coaches. Screw that. I'd rather them go with noodle armed Beck and turnover prone Grossman and draft someone in 2012.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;804639]I just don't see it that way. Vick is/was always the better QB and was w/out quesation the most valuable player on Atl. Plus he was rushing for 1,000 yards. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts on a defense? He always had a quick compact release and had the potential to be a very good passer. I'd call VY kind of a poor man's Michael Vick pre Philly. I don't think we'll ever see VY with a 21td 6 int ratio and Vick did that in what....12 starts or so?[/quote]

Not saying he's going to play like Vick... just that he has the potential to reinvent himself if he lands in the right situation and gets serious about being a pro.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;804554]Why go through the BS in signing the guy if he is a gamble and a waste of time and say miss out on a possible chance at Palmer, etc. We really needed to sign a QB in the first round. Kerrigan was a great pick, but moving him to OLB is a gamble in itself.[/quote]

Did you hear Mike Brown say he was going to move Palmer? It's not going to happen.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

off topic

[quote=skinsfan69;804639]I just don't see it that way. Vick is/was always the better QB and was w/out quesation the most valuable player on Atl. Plus he was rushing for 1,000 yards. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts on a defense? He always had a quick compact release and had the potential to be a very good passer. I'd call VY kind of a poor man's Michael Vick pre Philly. I don't think we'll ever see VY with a 21td 6 int ratio and Vick did that in what....12 starts or so?[/quote]Although I think Vince could work here; I think it would require a paradigm shift in Kyle's playcalling gameplanning style.

But, I agree with you and kinda bristle at the Vick comparison for 2 reasons.

From a physical/tangible stand point:

o Vick has a flawless throwing motion, he's always been one of the best throwers of the football in the game; Vince has a quircky 3/4 motion.

o Vick is a dynamic runner. Speed, vision, acceleration and toughness/willingness.
Vince is a good runner in his own right but Vick is on a different level.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;804621]Neither do I. For whatever reason CP's mechanics have broken down over the past few years, analysts point out his poor footwork as a reason for some of his struggles. #5 had the same kind of issues, we don't need to go down that road again.[/quote]The dude used to have a sweet stroke, the human jugs machine.
Kemo Von Olhoffen sp? destroyed his knee, then the elbows problems came.
Pure speculation but I think having his knee wrecked like that made him a bit skittish in the pocket especially with people around his legs/feet.

Imo hasn't been the same since.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=30gut;804646]off topic

Although I think Vince could work here; I think it would require a paradigm shift in Kyle's playcalling gameplanning style.

[B]But, I agree with you and kinda bristle at the Vick comparison for 2 reasons.[/B]

From a physical/tangible stand point:

o Vick has a flawless throwing motion, he's always been one of the best throwers of the football in the game; Vince has a quircky 3/4 motion.

o Vick is a dynamic runner. Speed, vision, acceleration and toughness/willingness.
Vince is a good runner in his own right but Vick is on a different level.[/quote]

I don't think anyone directly compared him to Vick, just that he could have a similar turnaround that Vick did if he sets his mind to it and has the right coaching.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Vick was a much much better QB in comparison to VY.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;804649]I don't think anyone directly compared him to Vick, just that he could have a similar turnaround that Vick did if he sets his mind to it and has the right coaching.[/quote]

That makes sense, especially if you take into account that Vick had his breakout in year 2 w/the iggles. Prior to last season there was talk of him being traded. I think a lot of teams could've gotten him if they were willing to take the risk, but no one was banging on the door for him.

So in fairness to Young, he'd need at least a year to get up to speed in a new O. Problem for the skins is, we don't have the stability the Eagles did when they brought Vick in. The QB situation is unsettled & the McNabb trade makes it all the more imperative for Shanny not to fail on this one.

To play devil's advocate w/my own position; if VY was 2nd or 3rd string for a year, maybe he would come around in year two. I don't know if either side can be that patient.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://player.admin.theplatform.com/ps/player/pds/1LuNxssuLP?pid=1nHXYN_rwH9W7WFBukgaUR8ckVztpvcj&awid=5872179333270367036]FACEBOOK PLAYER[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

In watching that video Beck looks like he has a future in coaching. Actually find it kind of amusing that he projects the same sort of essence as the Elder Shanahan.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=freddyg12;804655]So in fairness to Young, he'd need at least a year to get up to speed in a new O. Problem for the skins is, we don't have the stability the Eagles did when they brought Vick in..............
To play devil's advocate w/my own position; if VY was 2nd or 3rd string for a year, maybe he would come around in year two. I don't know if either side can be that patient.[/quote]I'll be your devil's advocate because I think its plausible outcome:

Vince Young offense coordinator with the Titans was a former Mike Shanahan QB coach/assistant HC (and college roommate).

[B][I][SIZE="3"]IF[/SIZE][/I][/B] Mike chose to bring Vince young to Washington he (not Kyle)* could design an offense that would be very similar to Heimdinger's offense with the Titans, therefore making Vince's transition seamless.

BUT this would require a major paradigm shift in Kyle's/our offensive philosophy not to mention it would to my eye somewhat undermine his own OC/son.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I think Kyle and Heimerdinger's offenses aren't all that different. Both favor an aggressive passing game. Why the Titans didn't really execute the philosophy, other than the fact they had CJ, I don't really know.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804724]I think Kyle and Heimerdinger's offenses aren't all that different. Both favor an aggressive passing game. Why the Titans didn't really execute the philosophy, other than the fact they had CJ, I don't really know.[/quote]

I would speculate that their receiving corps was rather meh while both the elder and younger Shannys had a big playmaker on thiers. Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson are better than what the Titans had/have.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803997]You guys are trying to make me jump on the Beckwagon. But I can't...not yet[/quote]

You do share sympathizers....

[url=http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d820035f2]NFL Videos: Redskins' QB situation[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;804724]I think Kyle and Heimerdinger's offenses aren't all that different. Both favor an aggressive passing game. Why the Titans didn't really execute the philosophy, other than the fact they had CJ, I don't really know.[/quote]I think in this instance 'offense' is a too generic a term because all 3 coaches in essence run the same offense.

But, from a focus and playcalling perspective I think Kyle has clearly showed an unbalance toward the pass that I know Mike Shanahan doesn't share and I would suspect that Heimerdinger doesn't either.

Kyle either caused or was influenced in Houston to focus more on the straight drop back passing aspect of the offense and his offenses have been roughly 60-40 pass to run.(Mike Shanahan career is almost exactly 50-50)

Dinger's play calling style/offense seems much closer to Mike S. then to Kyle, run heavy or run balanced with a focus on run based movement action/play action passing.

I think Kyle philosophically is closer to Andy Ried/Josh McDaniels then he is to Mike Shanahan or run balanced playaction type coach.

Maybe I'm making to sublime I distinction but I think its clearly evident.

To simplify I think Kyle views the offense soley through the eyes of QBs and the WRs.
I think Mike and other run balanced coaches view the offense jointly through the eyes of the QB [I][B]and[/B][/I] the RB.
If that makes sense.

All of this is based on the assumption that Heimerdinger is like Mike Shanahan a run balanced play-action playcaller game planner.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/714551-john-beck-redskins-starting-quarterback-and-the-next-aaron-rodgers]John Beck: Redskins' Starting Quarterback and the Next Aaron Rodgers? | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The way I look at John Beck is like this; either way, the Redskins are in relatively good position and are in position to dow whatever they want.

If John Beck plays poorly, the Redskins probably finish below .500. I don't think they get less than 6 wins just because of the ease of the schedule, but in all likelihood, they end up with another top ten pick, and that will put Mike back in position to draft his quarterback of the future from an altogether stronger quarterback class than there's been before.

If John Beck is able to pilot the offense to an 8-8 season or 9-7, then the Redskins are [i]still[/i] in good position to get their quarterback of the future, and you have a guy who can play for another 2-3 seasons, until the rookie is ready, and maybe another season in the system would mean Beck improves. Then you have two viable quarterback options, which is some much needed long term planning.

And if Beck pulls off a miracle and is a Pro Bowl caliber guy, Mike Shanahan looks like an absolute genius, the Redskins front office is vindicated, and all of us have one less thing to worry about.

It's kind of a win-win-win.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NLC1054;805212]The way I look at John Beck is like this; either way, the Redskins are in relatively good position and are in position to dow whatever they want.

If John Beck plays poorly, the Redskins probably finish below .500. I don't think they get less than 6 wins just because of the ease of the schedule, but in all likelihood, they end up with another top ten pick, and that will put Mike back in position to draft his quarterback of the future from an altogether stronger quarterback class than there's been before.

If John Beck is able to pilot the offense to an 8-8 season or 9-7, then the Redskins are [i]still[/i] in good position to get their quarterback of the future, and you have a guy who can play for another 2-3 seasons, until the rookie is ready, and maybe another season in the system would mean Beck improves. Then you have two viable quarterback options, which is some much needed long term planning.

And if Beck pulls off a miracle and is a Pro Bowl caliber guy, Mike Shanahan looks like an absolute genius, the Redskins front office is vindicated, and all of us have one less thing to worry about.

It's kind of a win-win-win.[/quote]

I agree with you except for the first part:If John Beck fails.
If they choose John Beck as the starter after passing on every QB in the draft, getting rid of McNabb and not bringing in a FA QB and he fails I think the Shanahan's are gonna be on shaky footing and rightfully so.

It means they chose the wrong QB/failed to create a successful environment for a QB 2 years in a row.

It means 2 wasted seasons.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I don't think Dan Snyder is so quick to fire him though. I think he has the same level of respect for him that he had for Joe Gibbs. So many people think that the Redskins are just going to bomb the season anyway (1-15 to 4-12 season predictions and a top three draft pick abound) I'm not sure the media scrutinty would be that intense.

And it's not a wasted season. We get a bunch of young guys valuable playing time, and I thin despite it all we do improve. I think at least the defense will start to find it's way a little bit more.

To me, starting Beck is like if we drafted Blaine Gabbert and he didn't play well. It's the same level of scrutiny, the same "God the Redskins are stupid mentality" from the media at large. It's really no different than drafting and a rookie. Just Blaine Gabbert or Ryan Mallett would be a flashier name.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NLC1054;805240]I don't think Dan Snyder is so quick to fire him though. I think he has the same level of respect for him that he had for Joe Gibbs. So many people think that the Redskins are just going to bomb the season anyway (1-15 to 4-12 season predictions and a top three draft pick abound) I'm not sure the media scrutinty would be that intense.

And it's not a wasted season. We get a bunch of young guys valuable playing time, and I thin despite it all we do improve. I think at least the defense will start to find it's way a little bit more.

To me, starting Beck is like if we drafted Blaine Gabbert and he didn't play well. It's the same level of scrutiny, the same "God the Redskins are stupid mentality" from the media at large. It's really no different than drafting and a rookie. Just Blaine Gabbert or Ryan Mallett would be a flashier name.[/quote]
It depends on the moves we make via FA.
If we're aggresive in FA and make win now moves but the team fails=non competitive because of poor QB play then for me its a wasted season.

Starting Beck in many ways is better then drafting a rookie QB except that Beck is 30.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Well yeah, he's thirty, but he's not, like, [i]normal[/i] thirty. Remember, he went on a Mormon mission before coming back to play football at BYU. It's not like he's got a lot of miles on his body; he's essentially been warming the bench since 2008.

And even at age thirty, if he's good, that still gives us a good five years of stability, possibly more. Plenty of time to draft a suitable "he'll be here for 15 years" kind of guy.

And I think when Bruce Allen said the team would be aggressive in free agency, I think he meant that they would be aggressive in filling the holes they didn't fill. Pretty much any moves the Redskins make are going to be reported as "win now" moves, even if they're rebuilding.

I think mainly they go after offensive linemen, a nose tackle, and a corner. Hardly flashy positions, unless they sign Nnamdi, which I don't think they will.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

You guys I reds the wrods but they're so blurry. Howe do I stop the blurry.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NLC1054;805313]And even at age thirty, if he's good, that still gives us a good five years of stability, possibly more. Plenty of time to draft a suitable "he'll be here for 15 years" kind of guy.[/quote]Who wants 5 years of stability if he's not the guy?

[quote]Pretty much any moves the Redskins make are going to be reported as "win now" moves, even if they're rebuilding.[/quote]I don't care how moves are 'reported' if its a win now move its a win now move.
E.g. signing Nnamdi, Cullen Jenkins etc. Good players but both would be win now moves and there is nothing inherently wrong with win now moves coupled with re-building moves IF you actually win now while getting younger.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[YT]B17arflJp9Y&[/YT]
Here some throws that stood out to me from the Becks in the Cards preseason game:

@1:13 [B][U][COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]Arm strength throw[/COLOR][/U][/B], just talking skillset or physical ability not result; He over throws the double covered WR-[B][COLOR="darkolivegreen"]but he uncorks a bomb from the 15 yd line to the opposing 32 yd line about a 63 yard throw in the air [/COLOR][/B]

@ 2:01 Climbs up in the pocket, then rips a 20 yard side arm pass on a line to Austin

@ 4:12 Nimble feet and quick execution on the bootleg, squares his shoulders and makes a good throw on the move to Austin

@ 6:00 Good velocity and accuracy on a quick 3-step slant to Devin Thomas

@ 6:56 From the hash to the sideline (in the air from the 27 yd line to the 44) not a long throw but good velocity

@ 7:11 Good touch on fade down (L) sideline

@ 7:26 [B][COLOR="darkolivegreen"]Best throw of the day I thought-From the 18 yd line quick release/3/4 motin side arm fling on a rope on target to Austin down the hash to the 48; great throw (about a 30 yard throw in the air) [/COLOR][/B]

@ 7:40 ??? WTF Follows up a great throw with a terrible side arm throw off balance and off target

@ 8:00 Half-playaction fires a dart to Banks on the 12 yd square in/dig route

Well that what I saw-what did you guys see
Thoughts?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Who's that #80? He was dropping everything.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;805383]Who's that #80? He was dropping everything.[/quote]

Shay Hodge. Camp scrub.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://burgundyblog.com/post/6059358535/beck]Lots of people have been knocking the mysterious... - Burgundy Blog [On The Washington Redskins][/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I think a lot of the concerns about Beck's arm strength are unwarranted as is. Matt Schaub doesn't have the biggest arm and he operates that offense incredibly well. If he needs to push it down field he can, but the offense isn't as much about the big play as everyone thinks it is. It's more about precision and execution.

And there's some pretty good throws he made in preseason. He didn't complete the passes, but he showed that he had more than enough arm to make the big throws.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NLC1054;805406]I think a lot of the concerns about Beck's arm strength are unwarranted as is. Matt Schaub doesn't have the biggest arm and he operates that offense incredibly well. If he needs to push it down field he can, but the offense isn't as much about the big play as everyone thinks it is. It's more about precision and execution.

And there's some pretty good throws he made in preseason. He didn't complete the passes, but he showed that he had more than enough arm to make the big throws.[/quote]

I think the real test will be how he does in the red zone and I personally think that his quick release and anticipation will allow him to be an upgrade over all our previous and current options.

Thats part of the reason average armed QB's make it in the NFL, because once that field is only 20 or 30 yards long that huge arm won't mean anything without a quick release and anticipation, seeing as how every QB in the league can throw a 20 or 30 yard pass.

In reviewing the season I saw way to many red zone attempts come up short. Part of fixing that will be getting more out of the running game but the passing game will also need to play a part in getting points on the board.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I think Beck's lack of arm strength is more pereception then reality.

He had one of the strongest arms at the combine in his draft class as measured by radar gun, throwing the 20 yard comeback.
In reality the evidence kinda points to Beck having a strong arm/very strong arm then hit does to him having a weak arm/average arm.