Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885689]No response for any of you?...lol I thought as much. Nothing to say when you know good and god damn well our country is at fault for all of this and will continue to make things worse by meddling in the Middle East.[/quote]

Yup. We intervened in a short sighted manner to protect our interests and it bit us in the ass and continues to do so.

"At fault for all of this"? I guess we have to disagree on that one. A few other actors have intervened in the Middle East since 1979. But, it's a simplistic assertion that has an element of truth - your favorite.

We "will make things worse by meddling in the Middle East"? Again, I ask you ... do we remove our military and aid from the Middle East? What do you think the consequences would be to the US economy if we did so? What should our ME policy be?

And to be clear, yes ... much of ME policy is driven by oil. It's called dependency and, if you have a realistic plan to make the stability of the ME unimportant to the US, I am all ears. I suggest, if the Straits of Hormuz are closed (as Iran has threatened on occasion) or if Iran attempts to intervene in Iraq after we have gone (to protect the Shia minority or oppose the secular govt. existing).

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;885755]So its all about Palestine now??????
This thread has more curves in it than a slinky.[/quote]

No, you keep talking about the threat of Iran to Israel, and I'm showing you the true threat of Israel to the Arab nation. The Hamas and Palestine region are backed by Iran and Syria. Iraq was the middle man in all of this.


Iran having a nuke is no more of a threat than Israel having one.


You keep talking about deflecting but yet you deflect over and over and over. You have shown absolutely nothing of substance. Nothing.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885766]No, you keep talking about the threat of Iran to Israel, and I'm showing you the true threat of Israel to the Arab nation. The Hamas and Palestine region are backed by Iran and Syria. Iraq was the middle man in all of this.

[SIZE="2"]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Iran having a nuke is no more of a threat than Israel having one. [/COLOR]
[/SIZE]

You keep talking about deflecting but yet you deflect over and over and over. You have shown absolutely nothing of substance. Nothing.[/quote]

Wow.....could you get any loonier?

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885686]There was no point to invade Iraq but we did.[/quote]

[B]U.N. Resolution[/B] 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms


[quote=NC_Skins;885686]There was no point for military actions in Lybia but we did.[/quote]

[B]U.N. Resolution[/B] 2009 outlined support for building a Democracy in Lybia

[quote=NC_Skins;885686]Blah, blah, blah...Iran[/quote]

U.N. News: [I]The issue has been of international concern since the discovery in 2003 that Iran had concealed its nuclear activities for 18 years in breach of its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty [/I]


[quote=NC_Skins;885686]What does Iraq, Iran, and Lybia all have in common?[/quote]

They fit your narrative?

[quote=NC_Skins;885686]
[URL="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html"]Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2006 — Infoplease.com[/URL]

All three countries are in the top 10 in oil reserves. This is no coincidence.[/quote]

Yeah, it is.

[quote=NC_Skins;885686] Tell me, why are<n't> we talking about air strikes to North Korea?[/quote]

China

[quote=NC_Skins;885686] How come we aren't steam rolling the warlords in South Africa? Resources. That's why. Everything in life comes back to two things. Money and Power.[/quote]

I hope you're not suggesting South Africa had no resources.......:laughing2

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885723]I didn't say we were stealing the oil or that it would be free.

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/world/middleeast/iraq-criticizes-exxonmobil-on-kurdistan-oil-pursuits.html[/URL]

Nah, it wasn't about oil.

[IMG]http://www.yellowdoggereldemocrat.org/images/oil_price_rise.gif[/IMG]


Oh, you say it's about fanatics with nukes eh? Much like Saddam Hussein?..lol Didn't we hear this same shit back in 2002?

[YT]KMKkQx_dTC4[/YT]


Number of countries Iran has bombed in the past decade- 0
Number of countries the US has bombed in the past decade- 8


Yemen 2002

Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)

Iraq 2003-present

Afghanistan 2001-present

Pakistan 2007-present

Somalia 2007-8, 2011

Yemen 2009, 2011

Libya 2011

Who's the fanatics with nukes again? I'm confused. :doh:[/quote]

Dude you might want to think about moving.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885747]LOL. Coming from you, that's rich. You haven't shown shit, but spouted talking points from dumbasses on the TV and main stream media. You keep talking about Iran and how they are "talking" about wiping the Israelis out and I show you that's exactly what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. BUT....that's deflection?...lololol


...but yeah, this map doesn't mean squat. They aren't systematically wiping out the Arabs and going against a UN resolution.


[IMG]http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. Up until 1968, the Jews who lived in Israel - and before that British Palestine - did not refer to themselves as 'Israelis'. They called themselves 'Palestinian Jews'.

Palestinians........trick, please!

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885747]LOL. Coming from you, that's rich. You haven't shown shit, but spouted talking points from dumbasses on the TV and main stream media. You keep talking about Iran and how they are "talking" about wiping the Israelis out and I show you that's exactly what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. BUT....that's deflection?...lololol

...but yeah, this map doesn't mean squat. [B]They aren't systematically wiping out the Arabs[/B] and going against a UN resolution.[/quote]

Didn't realize there were Israeli "death camps" so that they could "systematically wip[e] out the Arabs". Pretty shoddy language given the issues at hand. The map simply shows land acquired. In fact, the muslim population of Israel has grown since 1995 both in raw numbers and as a percentage of the whole (14% in '95, 22% in 08). [url=http://www.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ_shnaton_e.html?num_tab=st02_02&CYear=2009]Statistical Abstract of Israel 2009 - No. 60 Subject 2 - Table No. 2[/url]

The Israelis are by no means pure as snow guys and our alliance with them is driven by a number of factors both internal to our national politics and by our desire for a stable govt. ally with in the ME (Say what you want about their politics but, since their establishment in '47, when was the last time Israel had a "regime change" such as has occurred in the various Arab nations in the region).

Israel has not abided by the UN declaration and should do so. At the same time, other than Egypt & Jordan every other Arab nation in the Mid-East is in a state of either declared or undeclared war with Israel. Given that, and though I don't agree whole heartedly with it, I can see their side of the story.

[quote=JoeRedskin(edit)] And all of this is relevant to the potential destabilizing effect to the region caused by Iran's potential possesion of nuclear weapns how?[/quote]

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885766] Iran having a nuke is no more of a threat than Israel having one. [/quote]

Then why does Ahmadinejad make so many less-than-veiled threats regarding the obliteration of Israel in his speeches?

This should concern anyone in conjunction with a nuclear armed Iran.

Israel is the only thriving Democracy in a cesspool of theocracies.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=RedskinRat;885779]Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

[B]Arab refugees[/B] in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. Up until 1968, the Jews who lived in Israel - and before that British Palestine - did not refer to themselves as 'Israelis'. They called themselves 'Palestinian Jews'.

Palestinians........trick, please![/quote]

Weren't these Arabs living in Palestine/Israel before 1967? During the Ottoman Empire in the 16th and 17th century, there was a small Jewish population living in the area known today as Israel. But there was a much sizable population of Muslims living in that area.

If I am not mistaken, I believe a lot of these native Palestinian Jews lived somewhat peacefully along with the majority Muslim population. It was the immigration of European Jews and the Zionist movement that propelled the conflict between these two groups, along with the growing Muslim nationalist movement of the early 1900s.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885766]No, you keep talking about the threat of Iran to Israel, and I'm showing you [B]the true threat of Israel to the Arab nation[/B]. The Hamas and Palestine region are backed by Iran and Syria. Iraq was the middle man in all of this.[/quote]

Which Arab nation? You do realize there are several?

Iran, of course, is not one of them.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Ruhskins;885790]Weren't these Arabs living in Palestine/Israel before 1967? During the Ottoman Empire in the 16th and 17th century, there was a small Jewish population living in the area known today as Israel. But there was a much sizable population of Muslims living in that area.

If I am not mistaken, I believe a lot of these native Palestinian Jews lived somewhat peacefully along with the majority Muslim population. It was the immigration of European Jews and the Zionist movement that propelled the conflict between these two groups, along with the growing Muslim nationalist movement of the early 1900s.[/quote]

This.

There is a lot of revisionist history going on on both sides of this thread.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Lotus;885795]This.

There is a lot of revisionist history going on on both sides of this thread.[/quote]

Exactly. I honestly find it a bit laughable when people in this country have passionate opinions about the Arab/Israeli conflict. I am not saying that people should not have an opinion, but it is this extremism that continues to fuel this conflict.

The way I see it, both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Israel has reason to be paranoid of other Arab nations, yet they have been aggressive in occupying and building up communities in areas outside of the pre-1967 borders. Israel has a right to defend itself, but often when Palestinians throw rocks at Israelis, the Israelis retaliate with bullets. Israelis are the victims of terrorism and denounce it, yet their country was formed by terrorists and their military tactics are pretty much terrorize the Palestinian population.

Palestinians on the other hand, have been screwed over by the other Arab countries, as much as they by Israelis. They claim a right to exist, but ally themselves with countries that want to drive Israel into the sea. They want self determination and their own government, but then they elect Hamas to the government. They also have no unity within their government and pretty much shun those leaders that are willing to negotiate.

I am pretty pessimistic about this conflict, a lot of people are dying on both sides, and it directly affects our security. I had the fortune of taking a class taught by an Israeli and a Palestinian professor, and got to see both sides of the conflict. I feel that a lot of us here in the U.S. only see the Israeli good side and the Palestinian bad side. But there is a lot that we don't know, and we are never going to be a broker of peace if we have people here be so one-sided on this sad conflict.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

Well said Ruhskins. Good insight.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Ruhskins;885804] Israel has a right to defend itself, but often when Palestinians throw rocks at Israelis, the Israelis retaliate with bullets.[/quote]

Should the IDF only be permitted to throw rocks back?

You're missing out on the occassional 'harmless' rocket attack, 'prank' suicide bomber and other manifestation of post-Friday-prayer japery that comes out of the poor, downtrodden Pali's.

But I'm biased...

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

Israel vs Iran is not the only subject when it comes to Iran having nukes.
Its not far fetched to think their govt would not hold parts of the region hostage with threats of using nukes if they didnt get their way.
It would not surprise me to hear them threaten to nuke one of our carrier battle groups if it entered the straights. They have already threatened it in a conventional way.
It would also be a good way for them to try to get their sanctions lifted.

Rinse, repeat...........

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Ruhskins;885804]Exactly. I honestly find it a bit laughable when people in this country have passionate opinions about the Arab/Israeli conflict. I am not saying that people should not have an opinion, but it is this extremism that continues to fuel this conflict.

The way I see it, both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Israel has reason to be paranoid of other Arab nations, yet they have been aggressive in occupying and building up communities in areas outside of the pre-1967 borders. Israel has a right to defend itself, but often when Palestinians throw rocks at Israelis, the Israelis retaliate with bullets. Israelis are the victims of terrorism and denounce it, yet their country was formed by terrorists and their military tactics are pretty much terrorize the Palestinian population.

Palestinians on the other hand, have been screwed over by the other Arab countries, as much as they by Israelis. They claim a right to exist, but ally themselves with countries that want to drive Israel into the sea. They want self determination and their own government, but then they elect Hamas to the government. They also have no unity within their government and pretty much shun those leaders that are willing to negotiate.

I am pretty pessimistic about this conflict, a lot of people are dying on both sides, and it directly affects our security. I had the fortune of taking a class taught by an Israeli and a Palestinian professor, and got to see both sides of the conflict. I feel that a lot of us here in the U.S. only see the Israeli good side and the Palestinian bad side. But there is a lot that we don't know, and we are never going to be a broker of peace if we have people here be so one-sided on this sad conflict.[/quote]

Well-considered and well-put.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=RedskinRat;885809]Should the IDF only be permitted to throw rocks back?

You're missing out on the occassional 'harmless' rocket attack, 'prank' suicide bomber and other manifestation of post-Friday-prayer japery that comes out of the poor, downtrodden Pali's.

But I'm biased...[/quote]

Rocket attacks are typically carried out by Hizbollah (if I am not mistaken), since they have been supplied by Syria and Iran with Katyusha rocket launchers. Unless you are talking about rocket-propelled grenade attacks, which I am sure Palestinians have.

I never said that IDF should not defend themselves. But they go to the extreme when they defend themselves. And that is the side that no one sees. I am not being one of these ultra liberals that goes on a rant about how horrible Israel is and blah blah blah, but I do think that there is a side to this conflict that no one sees. There are many Israeli and Palestinians that want this conflict to end. Heck the Oslo Accords were started by 2nd and 3rd track diplomacy efforts. But we just seem to hear the sides of the extremists, and here in the US we get to hear the side of Israel.

And I guess all of us here in the US have the luxury to be extremist about this conflict, since we don't have to worry about a suicide bomber blowing up a bus on the morning commute or having the IDF shoot a anti-tank missile while they are retaliating.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;885812]Israel vs Iran is not the only subject when it comes to Iran having nukes.
[B]Its not far fetched to think their govt would not hold parts of the region hostage with threats of using nukes if they didnt get their way.
It would not surprise me to hear them threaten to nuke one of our carrier battle groups if it entered the straights.[/B] They have already threatened it in a conventional way.
It would also be a good way for them to try to get their sanctions lifted.

Rinse, repeat...........[/quote]

The same way that nukes have helped Israel avoid conflict with the major Arab powers since the 1973 War.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Ruhskins;885826]The same way that nukes have helped Israel avoid conflict with the major Arab powers since the 1973 War.[/quote]

Avoid and threaten are two different things.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

Lets give all the rag heads nukes that are programmed to only attack each other. Then cut on the cams and watch them kill each other on HBO.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;885830]Avoid and threaten are two different things.[/quote]

I would say hold a strategic advantage. I am sure that if Israel uses nukes against their neighbor, it is going to affect them in some way shape or form since it is such a small area.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=firstdown;885833]Lets give all the rag heads nukes that are programmed to only attack each other. Then cut on the cams and watch them kill each other on HBO.[/quote]

Feck HBO, I'd rather watch it live on a webcam.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

Let's refrain from saying rag heads

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

is rag heads an acceptable term?

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=firstdown;885833]Lets give all the rag heads nukes that are programmed to only attack each other. Then[B] cut on the cams and watch them kill each other on HBO[/B].[/quote]
I imagine that....would Trump being voted off the Island.....

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=firstdown;885833]Lets give all the rag heads nukes that are programmed to only attack each other. Then cut on the cams and watch them kill each other on HBO.[/quote]

This post is disgusting for so many reasons. FD if you were trying to be funny you failed.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=dmek25;885849]is rag heads an acceptable term?[/quote]

No.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

This is thread hell at it's finest.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f237/redstout/ritaskewed.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

Thread Hell?? I say it is the new Question 3. I say it's time to Occupy the Occupy thread!!

Heck we've had nazis, sesame street, posers and now nukes and the historical construct of the Israeli state. Okay, "rag heads" was a major fail. but but but .... in its 40 pages, it's also been a display of beautiful ignorance and insight.

Thread hell??? Try Thread EPIC!!!

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;885873]Thread Hell?? I say it is the new Question 3. I say it's time to Occupy the Occupy thread!!

Heck we've had nazis, sesame street, posers and now nukes and the historical construct of the Israeli state. Okay, [B]"rag heads" was a major fail[/B]. but but but .... in its 40 pages, it's also been a display of beautiful ignorance and insight.

Thread hell??? Try Thread EPIC!!![/quote]

The ethnic slur was not the greatest fail. Cheering for genocide was.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Lotus;885876]The ethnic slur was not the greatest fail. Cheering for genocide was.[/quote]

This.



I think it's time to lock this one up. I'll be starting a thread soon about capitalism/corporatism that hopefully doesn't devolve into cheering for genocide or racial slurs. My brain hurts.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=NC_Skins;885895]This.



I think it's time to lock this one up. I'll be starting a thread soon about capitalism/corporatism that hopefully doesn't devolve into cheering for genocide or racial slurs. My brain hurts.[/quote]

Oh boy.

*takes shot of whiskey, places shotgun on lap...waits*

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

a real slice of american pie

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=SmootSmack;885912]Oh boy.

*takes shot of whiskey, places shotgun on lap...waits*[/quote]
and.....NC Skins walks in?

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

i wrote 2 songs for tobey keith from the material in this thread

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=SmootSmack;885912]Oh boy.

*takes shot of whiskey, places shotgun on lap...waits*[/quote]

LOL ... <sigh>

A moderator's work is never done.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Lotus;885876]The ethnic slur was not the greatest fail. Cheering for genocide was.[/quote]

True enough.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=los panda;885920]i wrote 2 songs for tobey keith from the material in this thread[/quote]

LOL win.

Re: 'Occupy' types
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;885864][IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f237/redstout/ritaskewed.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Redskins Rita, you realize FD is talking about you?