Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;889956]I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


[U][B]GM:[/B][/U] trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

[B][U]Fans:[/U][/B] OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


[B][U]GM:[/U][/B] Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.




[B][U]Fans:[/U][/B] OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.[/quote]

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;889956]I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


[U][B]GM:[/B][/U] trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

[B][U]Fans:[/U][/B] OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


[B][U]GM:[/U][/B] Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


[B][U]Fans:[/U][/B] OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.[/quote]

It's not quite that black and white.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889983]Why is a giant fan that won 2 super bowls by trading up for a QB hanging out on a Redskins message board taking a squirt in our bowl of RG3 cheerios?[/quote]

Because if we get RG3 suddenly the Redskins become an actual threat to the NFC East crown within a year or two. It's much nicer having us at the bottom of the division.

Which reminds me.

RG3 Selling Point #472: More nationally televised games for out of town fans.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889990]Because if we get RG3 suddenly the Redskins become an actual threat to the NFC East crown within a year or two. It's much nicer having us at the bottom of the division.[/quote]

Exactly...

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Lotus;889984]You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.[/quote]Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889992]Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.[/quote]

Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889960]I don't think Nicks is coming here. Nor Grubbs for that matter. In fact, hearing more and more they're may not be radical additions at OL this off-season. Maybe some depth, but we'll see[/quote]


Well I have often wondered why we tinker so much cause one would think everytime you tinker there is another cog that has to learn the system. I was happy with the end of the year product and how well it played, but I keep wondering will it play just as good against a healthy Giants defense? I so want to think yes but still wonder.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

RG3 is a duck. Everyone else is a rabbit. Remind anyone else around here of anything?
[YT]p74LfkDFwYI[/YT]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889951]And I'm sorry but all of those second tier guys at QB (Foles, Weeden, Tannehill, Ossweiler, etc) are going to be dwarfed at the end of their careers by the acheivements of a certain Robert Griffin III.[/quote]All of them though? I would take RG3 over each and every one of them. But if you right now gave me RG3 or anyone in the field minus Luck, I'd have to take the field. It's a strong field.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889988]OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.[/quote]

If Shanahan does not pick up a qb in this years draft, he will be on the hot seat. And if the team fails to perform, he will be fired.

If he drafts RG3(or Tannehill/Manning), he buys himself a couple more years. Which would you think would be the better option for his career?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889992]Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.[/quote]
Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love!

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Lotus;889984]You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.[/quote]

Let me help.... He's saying that the Cerrato way was to give up too many draft picks to move up for one player. Picks that could be used to get high end draft quality players since half the fans here seem to think round 4 and beyond is camp fodder.

No matter what we do in the draft I think we need to collect 2 WR's in FA, one Vet QB, and a couple OL if possible. QB to replace Grossman and Beck and WR cause we just suck there. How about this... We pick up PM, draft a Tannehill or Weeden in RD1 then maybe RD 3 or 4 we pick up someone else? Russel Wilson?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889993]Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.[/quote]I feel like "free agent strategy" is eventually going to be a completely separate thread, but I do think that there are plenty of FA values at a lot of positions. And I'm skeptical that the Redskins will get any of them. But that's just post-2011 pessimism, and not actually based on something of substance.

I will say that I'm shocked that 1) our 2011 FA class has already been ruled a success and 2) we haven't gotten very much from it yet (but theres still time!)

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;890000]Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love![/quote]I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

I think people forget how well MS/BA have done with some of the later round talent. Although, I really hope that however this trade ends up, I'd like for us to keep our second rounder this year (prob at the expense of next year's first rounder). I think our FO can get a solid starter out of that second rounder. Add this to RG3, and you have two talented young players (adding to the talented players we got last draft).

I do think that BA will not go overboard with this trade up. And because of this I am fine with this possibility of trading. Also, I don't think that a FA signing this offseason will totally offset not having picks, however, I feel the FA class this offseason is young enough to be around at least for 3 years.

Also, let's not forget the good young players we have on the roster:
Kerrigan, Trent Williams, Riley, Helu, Royster, Hank, Jenkins, Neild

And the young vets:
Orakpo, Davis, Josh Wilson, Kory L., S. Bowen, A. Carriker

Our team is pretty young, some still need to prove themselves. A lot of the guys I've mentioned should be around for a while, and I think some of them may develop into solid starters.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;889992]Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. [B] If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.[/B][/quote]


That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before. :doh:
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;890003]I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)[/quote]

LOL! You'll always be the Ying to my Yang Tripp!

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinsguy;890006]That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before. :doh:
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.[/quote]Also, we haven't tried having back to back winning seasons yet.

The biggest problem with your line of thinking is that you're essentially arguing that coaches shouldn't have performance standards because having a bad coach is much preferable to changing coaches.

I am just saying: having expectations out of your coaches is important. If 12-20 gets you fired, 11-21 can't get an extension. If you wanted to build organically, I would have started fresh. Otherwise, results: lets see some.

If we're behind Mike Shanahan 100%, we need to allow him to burn through that cap room to produce results. Maybe not the most preferrable option, but you have to win sometime.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Griffin better be worth it! Two first rounders plus other picks. That's a lot when we lack depth.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;890012]Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.[/quote]
There is no way that we give that much up. The 2013 3rd is definitely overkill, and the 2nd/4th this year might be negotiated differently(but to the same effect).

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=TexSkins;890013]Griffin better be worth it! Two first rounders plus other picks. That's a lot when we lack depth.[/quote]

I think we have descent depth:
-O line showed they had depth last year
-D-line has depth so long as Carricker returns and Jenkins is healthy
-Plethora of WRs/CBs
-OLB isn't too bad
-RB were stacked
-TE were set

-ILB we need to add a piece to, ideally Fletcher's eventual replacement
-Could use some help at safety.

What the Skins currently lack is playmakers, we don't have any top tier talent really. Which is why I'd be so hesitant to make a trade involving that many 1st and 2nd rd picks.

We need a:
-#1 WR
-#1 CB
-Starting right side of o-line, or C/RT depending on how they shuffle things
-Starting QB
-True NT

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;890017]There is no way that we give that much up. The 2013 3rd is definitely overkill, and the 2nd/4th this year might be negotiated differently(but to the same effect).[/quote]

Ok man, I'm going to look back at this when the trade goes down..

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;890012]Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.[/quote]

When trading up in the 1st round, you don't give up that pick. So in this instance, the redskins are not giving up the 2012 1st rounder. The only 1st rounder they are giving up would be in 2013.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

I think that we'll find out how much we have to give up after free agency ends. Lets say the browns get flynn and the dolphins get manning. Considering we would be the only feasible trade partner, i think we wouldnt have to give up more than two firsts, a second and a fourth.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinster;890023]I think that we'll find out how much we have to give up after free agency ends. Lets say the browns get flynn and the dolphins get manning. Considering we would be the only feasible trade partner, i think we wouldnt have to give up more than two firsts, a second and a fourth.[/quote]

that's why the speculation is that the deal will go down before free agency for the fact that the rams will get the most out of it that they can

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;889951]Once you get that QB you can build around then the depth moves and the trade downs make more sense and suddenly you look like a genius. For now trading down for average depth players is putting lipstick on a pig. How is an extra linebacker, an average receiver, or a starting Guard going to get us in the playoffs compared to drafting a first tier franchise QB?

Unless you end up with Patrick Willis, Andre Johnson, and Carl Nicks with those draft picks it won't even start to compare to the impact a franchise QB brings to the table.

And I'm sorry but [B]all of those second tier guys at QB (Foles, Weeden, Tannehill, Ossweiler, etc) are going to be dwarfed at the end of their careers by the acheivements of a certain Robert Griffin III.[/B][/quote]

Do you believe that any of the combined staffs of coaches responsible for drafting the many Overrated....underachieving.....savior QB's taken in the opening moments of the first round, thought at the time
hmmm, probably gonna' be a loser, bust wannabe, but what the hell. We'll go ahead and sling a handful of picks and players at him anyway.
I rather think they were ALL.......can't miss, sure things?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinster;890023]I think that we'll find out how much we have to give up after free agency ends. Lets say the browns get flynn and the dolphins get manning. Considering we would be the only feasible trade partner, i think we wouldnt have to give up more than two firsts, a second and a fourth.[/quote]Yeah, you just have to give up enough to compensate for the Rams not having their pick of Blackmon/Kalil.

The 2013 first rounder probably handles that compensation. Then beyond that, you just have to be willing to make the best offer. A one, a three, and a five? That's almost certainly going to be best offer. Question is, will the Rams pull the trigger if the Redskins offer something close to that, or do they wait for the market value of the pick to settle?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889975]Well, they'd like to give Jammal Brown a chance to finally get healthy

Some think they may make another run, yet again, at Ryan Harris

If they don't trade their 1st and 2nd, they have been showing interest in several OTs (Jonathan Martin, Riley Rieff, Mike Adams) and have told all them they'd be interested in them as RTs[/quote]I hope the plan is to draft a top OT and not to re-sign Brown or Harris.

We need a long term solution at RT preferably someone that is good enough to provide insurance at the LT position in case smokey T. Williams takes anothe tok.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=30gut;890034]I hope the plan is to draft a top OT and not to re-sign Brown or Harris.

We need a long term solution at RT preferably someone that is good enough to provide insurance at the LT position in case smokey T. Williams takes anothe [B]tok[/B].[/quote]

The spelling is toak.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;890037]The spelling is toak.[/quote]

I believe it's "toke" actually.

[url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toke]Urban Dictionary: toke[/url]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Mahons21;890041]I believe it's "toke" actually.

[url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toke]Urban Dictionary: toke[/url][/quote]

check the urban dictornary.

[url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toak]Urban Dictionary: toak[/url]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Toak or Toke? sounds like a good poll question

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Chico23231;890043]Toak or Toke?[B] sounds like a good poll question[/B][/quote]

I agree.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toke]Toke - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary[/url]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=30gut;890034]I hope the plan is to draft a top OT and not to re-sign Brown or Harris.

We need a long term solution at RT preferably someone that is good enough to provide insurance at the LT position in case smokey T. Williams takes anothe tok.[/quote]

The spelling is another :)

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Every time I see SS has the last post in this thread I expect some sort of insider info that will put me at ease....

I hate/love this time of year

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;890012]Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.[/quote]

Allen and Shanahan are good negotiators. I think they can get it for a little less then that.

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;890012]Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but they can keep that pick then

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;890053]Allen and Shanahan are good negotiators. I think they can get it for a little less then that.[/quote]

I hope they get it done, can't help but feel this off season will define the next decade. It sure has been one of the funnest off seasons on The Warpath, never knew I was so into gossip hahaha. But the intrigue has been over the top this year.