Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Jerry Jones to Dan Snyder yesterday: "Goodell is a pimp. He never coulda outfought us. But I didn't know until this day that it was the other owners all along."

Yes, it's yet another reference to [I]The Godfather[/I].

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;897221][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst]Cap controversy shows NFL at its worst - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Graziano FTW once again.[/quote]

Yep. Nice to see mainstream media backing us.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897102]I see it being overturned or significantly mitigated. You are right: this is not really an issue for the courts or for Goodell. It is an issue for the owner's meetings at the end of the month. The owners can (and I expect will) reduce this to something smaller.[/quote]

Hold on, it could be a court issue for the players union. If the owners say there was an agreement then the owners colluded and the union would have an arguement that the owners were colluding during the lockout. But whats being said is there was an agreement but had the League not permitted the deals then the players union would have been tipped off and no CBA would have been signed and they would have gone to court over collusion.

Instead the League approved the deals in order to keep the peace and get a new CBA signed. They can't go back and now cry fould with out pointing out that they were colluding at the time which gives the NFLPA the right to take the owners to court over collusion during the lockout.

either they were colluding or they were not. If they were not then the Skins and Boys are off the hook. If the Skins and Boys broke an agreement then the owners just proved they were colluding against the NFLPA.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897105]a) the other owners won't want their labor laundry aired in courts. Therefore a threat of a lawsuit alone might make them cave in.
b) Danny and Jerry aren't going to want to bite the NFL hand that feeds

So, whether there are salient legal issues or not, it is unlikely that this will see a courtroom.[/quote]

Your right it won't see a court room cause the League will not want their laundry aired. But I'm guessing we will have to bite the bullet for now spend what we can. Then handle our draft. Then after the draft file an appeal or law suit against the NFL. I really wish the NFLPA would step up and get involved in this. That alone would make the other Owners back off. I think.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Everything you say is reasonable in theory, but not applicable when you're dealing with a bully.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897232]Hold on, it could be a court issue for the players union. If the owners say there was an agreement then the owners colluded and the union would have an arguement that the owners were colluding during the lockout. But whats being said is there was an agreement but had the League not permitted the deals then the players union would have been tipped off and no CBA would have been signed and they would have gone to court over collusion.

Instead the League approved the deals in order to keep the peace and get a new CBA signed. They can't go back and now cry fould with out pointing out that they were colluding at the time which gives the NFLPA the right to take the owners to court over collusion during the lockout.

either they were colluding or they were not. If they were not then the Skins and Boys are off the hook. If the Skins and Boys broke an agreement then the owners just proved they were colluding against the NFLPA.[/quote]

Well we know the NFLPA won't take the NFL to court over the alleged collusion because the NFL blackmailed them into agreeing on the punishment for the Skins and Cowboys. So if this does go to court (which I believe it won't) it will be the Skins and Cowboys against the NFL. At which point we can pretty much lose all hope that the NFL will cut us any slack for anything over the next 20 years, because that's the standard MO after a team (80's Raiders) sues the league and wins.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Good read. Should be interesting court battles coming.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897235]Your right it won't see a court room cause the League will not want their laundry aired. But I'm guessing we will have to bite the bullet for now spend what we can. Then handle our draft. Then after the draft file an appeal or law suit against the NFL. [B]I really wish the NFLPA would step up and get involved in this. [/B]That alone would make the other Owners back off. I think.[/quote]

Nevermind, mooby said it. The NFLPA has already signed off on the cap thing.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;897221][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst]Cap controversy shows NFL at its worst - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Graziano FTW once again.[/quote]spreading that extra cap room out among 28 other teams?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897242]Nevermind, mooby said it. The NFLPA has already signed off on the cap thing.[/quote]

I got your back. :food-smil

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Drewsky27;897144]We are still in top half of league with our cap reduced. I can see why some see this as better.. It means more underrated free agent signings like last year that were good pickups... Nobiggy[/quote]

People. It's not a matter of "oh now we are screwed and can't get the FA's we want." It's about principal. Both teams reworked contracts to help themselves out. Both teams submitted the deals to the NFL. The NFL agreed to the deals and signed off on them (to benifit themselves or the new CBA would not have been signed and they would have gone to court over the owners colluding). Now after the months of opportunities to work this out they decide to have a meeting and decide to punish only two of the many teams that benifited and with in 24 hrs of FA. This smacks of jealousy and anger that the other teams don't have the CAP room to work with.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897248]People. It's not a matter of "oh now we are screwed and can't get the FA's we want." It's about principal. Both teams reworked contracts to help themselves out. Both teams submitted the deals to the NFL. The NFL agreed to the deals and signed off on them (to benifit themselves or the new CBA would not have been signed and they would have gone to court over the owners colluding). Now after the months of opportunities to work this out they decide to have a meeting and decide to punish only two of the many teams that benifited and with in 24 hrs of FA. This smacks of jealousy and anger that the other teams don't have the CAP room to work with.[/quote]

Bingo.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897248]People. It's not a matter of "oh now we are screwed and can't get the FA's we want." It's about principal. Both teams reworked contracts to help themselves out. Both teams submitted the deals to the NFL. The NFL agreed to the deals and signed off on them (to benifit themselves or the new CBA would not have been signed and they would have gone to court over the owners colluding). Now after the months of opportunities to work this out they decide to have a meeting and decide to punish only two of the many teams that benifited and with in 24 hrs of FA. This smacks of jealousy and anger that the other teams don't have the CAP room to work with.[/quote]

Bingo.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'm really hoping that Snyder challenges this in the courts or whatever forum is appropriate. Turning this into a collusion case against the 28 owners and Goodell would get the attention of the league office. Roger Goodell is a complete lackey/shill for the owners.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;897258]Bingo.[/quote]

lmao

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;897221][URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst"]Cap controversy shows NFL at its worst - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/URL]

Graziano FTW once again.[/quote]

Ok so the League basically paid off the NFLPA to keep their mouths shut and look the other way while punishing 2 owners that didn't follow breaking the rules.

Would it be funny if whoever over see's Collusion in big business decided to contact the League now and inform them that they are investigating whether the owners colluded or not to an extent that it gave the other 30 owners and advantage over the players in the lockout.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;897238]Well we know the NFLPA won't take the NFL to court over the alleged collusion because the NFL blackmailed them into agreeing on the punishment for the Skins and Cowboys. So if this does go to court (which I believe it won't) it will be the Skins and Cowboys against the NFL. At which point we can pretty much lose all hope that the NFL will cut us any slack for anything over the next 20 years, because that's the standard MO after a team (80's Raiders) sues the league and wins.[/quote]

I find it odd that the NFLPA agreed to the deal, even with the stipulation that total player monies remain the same. But maybe they are geniuses. If we appeal our penalty and win even $1 back, yet the other teams still have their raised salary caps, then there is more total money in the pool for players. In other words, maybe the NFLPA is banking on a successful appeal by us.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897271]I find it odd that the NFLPA agreed to the deal, even with the stipulation that total player monies remain the same. But maybe they are geniuses. If we appeal our penalty and win even $1 back, yet the other teams still have their raised salary caps, then there is more total money in the pool for players. In other words, maybe the NFLPA is banking on a successful appeal by us.[/quote]

Good call. I didn't think about that but it is an interesting point. If that turns out to be the case, it's a win for the NFLPA, especially because they know the Redskins will spend that money that becomes available.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;897215]I agree with this. It's not like we used the money to bring in a bunch of free agents in 2010. We just pushed future money to the present on the garbage we had already signed previously.

The Bears on the other hand used 2010 to bring in a brand new FA Peppers. They dumped $35M of his money into the uncapped year. Would they have been able to bring in Peppers without the uncapped year? Maybe but definitely not as easily.[/quote]

Our "competitive advantage" is realized now in that we SHOULD have a massive amount of cap space since we were able to accelerate cap monies into 2010 with no consequence. Hence the league's belief (mistaken as it may be) that the removal of said cap space now is a proper rectification of our "infractions". How what the Bears did was any different I am curious to understand the logic. We blatantly moved [B]owed [/B]cap space eating monies into 2010. The Bears did not though. They incurred [B]new [/B]cap space eating monies in 2010. The distinction is minor and logically I see no difference. The "competitive advantage" is the same.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897236]Everything you say is reasonable in theory, but not applicable when you're dealing with a bully.[/quote]

Which is even more reason for whoever oversees business owners to step in. In reality the NFLPA should be ashamed for agreeing to this. They had so much leverage in this. If you want to punish your two favorite owners then your admitting to the fact the other 30 teams colluded and the NFLPA should be up in arms about this.

The Skins should lower their ticket prices, way low, since the money sent back to the League to help indigent teams is based off of the % of total revenue. They want to screw around then lets lower the ticket price because you know the market is so bad for DS also.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;897221][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst]Cap controversy shows NFL at its worst - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Graziano FTW once again.[/quote]

BOOM! Roasted

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=los panda;897243]spreading that extra cap room out among 28 other teams?[/quote]

Yep, this right here makes the strongest case that the league and the other owners were colluding on this. They're being rewarded. Normally when one team gets punished, they have a penalty and that's it. Since when does the rest of the league get REWARDED for another team's rule-breaking? That smells.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Stop making the fans pay for parking because thats also an income. Lower the food prices. No one purchase any merchandise.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;897271]I find it odd that the NFLPA agreed to the deal, even with the stipulation that total player monies remain the same. But maybe they are geniuses. If we appeal our penalty and win even $1 back, yet the other teams still have their raised salary caps, then there is more total money in the pool for players. In other words, maybe the NFLPA is banking on a successful appeal by us.[/quote]

The players were faced with losing 128 million in cap money for players or going along with an unethical and patently unfair scheme to stick it to rich owners spear-headed by a committee whose chair is a direct division rival. If that isn't the epitome of morally bankrupt then I don't what is. It is a monumental day when you can take the road BELOW Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones. It says a lot about the character of some of these owners. They're bad people.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Monkeydad;897284]Yep, this right here makes the strongest case that the league and the other owners were colluding on this. They're being rewarded. Normally when one team gets punished, they have a penalty and that's it. Since when does the rest of the league get REWARDED for another team's rule-breaking? That smells.[/quote]

Whats really funny is it wasn't the Skins or Boys that broke the rule, it was the other owners that did but because these two owners refused to break the law or rule they are getting punished. How the "F" does that equal out? I'm telling you the Feds should get involved with whether the other owners colluded against the players at the time.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Monkeydad;897284]Yep, this right here makes the strongest case that the league and the other owners were colluding on this. They're being rewarded. Normally when one team gets punished, they have a penalty and that's it. Since when does the rest of the league get REWARDED for another team's rule-breaking? That smells.[/quote]

Well they had to do this to buy off the NFLPA. If they just take away our cap space then the players are necessarily getting a smaller pool of money. I would guess the league would rather not have had to agree to that stipulation but had no choice. Of course in practical terms the NFLPA did lose some money because all of that 46 mill won't be spent whereas it probably would have been had it not been stolen away.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Completely unrelated to anything but you know what's crazy? I've spent more time in the salary cap forum in the last two days here than I've spent in the 7 years prior on this board.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;897293]Completely unrelated to anything but you know what's crazy? I've spent more time in the salary cap forum in the last two days here than I've spent in the 7 years prior on this board.[/quote]

You've got me beat by about five years, but yeah same here haha.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

This is the first time in a while I've been watching the board so closely. This is such a crazy thing--and right up against the start of such a crucial free agency!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897290]Whats really funny is it wasn't the Skins or Boys that broke the rule, it was the other owners that did but because these two owners refused to break the law or rule they are getting punished. How the "F" does that equal out? I'm telling you the Feds should get involved with whether the other owners colluded against the players at the time.[/quote]

A senate committee will be getting involved with this at some point I would be willing to bet, nothing will come of it of course, but it will be a nice format for them to do some grandstanding.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;897294]You've got me beat by about five years, but yeah same here haha.[/quote]

I wish we could go back to a simpler time, when the salary cap was just something we could easily maneuver around when the opportunity arose, instead of being used as a tool to punish us on the eve of the start of a crucial free agency signing period.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

so with the 18 million $ cap hit and the release of sellers and atogwe and some restructure contracts ,how much cap space do we have for free agency ,that start in just under two hours? this really freaking sucks

[QUOTE=bigant;897308]so with the 18 million $ cap hit and the release of sellers and atogwe and some restructure contracts ,how much cap space do we have for free agency ,that start in just under two hours? this really freaking sucks[/QUOTE]

Adam S just said the skins have not changed any preparation for this free agency

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Is it no wonder we are getting penalized to a point where the Bears can now compete with us to get VJ and they are not getting penalized for their actions?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;897293]Completely unrelated to anything but you know what's crazy? I've spent more time in the salary cap forum in the last two days here than I've spent in the 7 years prior on this board.[/quote]

I was thinking last night that the salary cap forum has probably had an all-time high in hits yesterday...even more today probably!


I know I have not even clicked on it for YEARS myself!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;897278]Which is even more reason for whoever oversees business owners to step in. In reality the NFLPA should be ashamed for agreeing to this. They had so much leverage in this. If you want to punish your two favorite owners then your admitting to the fact the other 30 teams colluded and the NFLPA should be up in arms about this.

The Skins should lower their ticket prices, way low, since the money sent back to the League to help indigent teams is based off of the % of total revenue. They want to screw around then lets lower the ticket price because you know the market is so bad for DS also.[/quote]

there really isnt anyone that oversees business owners in general. if there are tax implications, the federal goverment could get involved but thats about it.

the NFLPA probably was up in arms about this when they first heard about it, but the NFL basically told the NFLPA: "We are mad and really want to screw Dan and Jerry over. so heres the deal - you let us screw them over, we'll let the cap stay where it is. Well take money away from these two teams, but we will redistribute it among the other teams. If you dont, we'll lower the salary cap this year enough that 32 teams will have 200MM less to spend on players.

The really horrible thing here is, the NFL openly admited to the NFLPA that they colluded against the players in the uncapped year. The NFL admitted to screwing the players 2 years ago out of hundreds of millions of dollars... and they had the balls to say, we did it before, and well do it again now, if you dont sign off on this.

In reality, i think the best course of action here would be for the skins and cowboys to make sure the players in general know about, and are aware of this. This would motivate the players to sue the NFLPA for not acting in their best interest. However,at that point we could have a big ole lawsuit and likely no football until its resolved.

Given that the other teams did exactly what the skins and cowboys did, and several teams did so more severely than the cowboys, i cant help but think the owners are pissed at the skins and cowboys about something else, and they are using this as an excuse to mete out the punishment they want for the other thing.

in the end, the NFL is a big, ugly bully, but theres not anything anyone can do about it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

so what are u saying skinsfaninok? that we are going to spend like we have the 40 million cap space?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

They should have fined the money out of pocket not the cap. Even though it's illegal the owners would have barely batted an eye and most likely paid the fine. That way the NFL would have gotten to send their message while not causing a huge uproar.

Sure with the antitrust exemption they might get away with this, but with the Boys and Skins getting ready to challenge the ruling the NFL is risking a big blow to their authority.

At this point it's basically a coin toss of who will come out on top even though the Skins and Boys have right on their side.

Either way Goodell is an evil mother f'er. Getting us to the point where we actually support Cowboy fans.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;897330][B]They should have fined the money out of pocket not the cap. [/B]Even though it's illegal the owners would have barely batted an eye and most likely paid the fine. That way the NFL would have gotten to send their message while not causing a huge uproar.

Sure with the antitrust exemption they might get away with this, but with the Boys and Skins getting ready to challenge the ruling the NFL is risking a big blow to their authority.

At this point it's basically a coin toss of who will come out on top even though the Skins and Boys have right on their side.

Either way Goodell is an evil mother f'er. Getting us to the point where we actually support Cowboy fans.[/quote]

If this were really about a total of THREE contracts by the skins and cowboys, thats what they would have done. Its not like the league is doing this to set a precedent for similar situations in the future - hopefully there will never be an uncapped year again. I'm convinced this is really about something else and the league was looking for an "offense" to justify this particular punishment.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;897337]If this were really about a total of THREE contracts by the skins and cowboys, thats what they would have done. Its not like the league is doing this to set a precedent for similar situations in the future - hopefully there will never be an uncapped year again. I'm convinced this is really about something else and the league was looking for an "offense" to justify this particular punishment.[/quote]
The other teams want to make it easier for themselves to sign free agents by taking out the two biggest spenders.