Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;921232]My opinion had been that this is a manslaughter case at best b/c nobody knows - beyond a reasonable doubt - that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation (negating the self-defense claim) or acted with "reckless disregard" (standard for gross negligence & 2nd degree murder) for Martin's safety. [I know others believe Zimm's [I]known[/I] actions constituted an initation of the physical confrontation or constituted the requisite "reckless disregard" - based on my understanding of those to legal principles, I disagree but am not going to argue the isssue at this point.]

Do I think this changes things - yup. The wife gets up on the stand and she is pretty much doomed. Zimmerman almost has to testify to assert his "self-defense" defense. Once he does, he will (and should be) crossed mercilessly on his assertion of self defense. I don't know what status of the spousal immunity laws are in FL. Could the prosecution call her? Probably. Would they? Maybe. I probably would but it would also depend on a lot of other factors that go into case presentation that I haven't really looked at. Bottom line - Zimm's "poor little ol' me" defense has just taken a serious blow.

In a case where his affirmative defense places considerable reliance [EDIT: relies almost exclusively] on his credibility, he just torpedeod it. It still is the State's burden to show gross negligence (for 2nd degree) but Zimmerman will be taking a big risk if he gets on the stand to dispute the evidence presented.

I think this went from a likely not guilty with a possibility of manslaughter to a likelihood of manslaughter with a possibility of 2nd degree murder. Again, just my opinion - I am sure others here see it differently.[/quote]

Probably the most cogent, objective analysis I've heard anywhere from anyone regarding this case.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=12thMan;921385]Probably the most cogent, objective analysis I've heard anywhere from anyone regarding this case.[/quote]

Thank you.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;921352][url=http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-man-found-guilty-killing-neighbor-dispute-053934284--abc-news-topstories.html]Texas Man Found Guilty for Killing Neighbor in Dispute - Yahoo![/url]

very interesting. in both cases neither of these people show the competency to own a firearm

Hopefully Zim's fate is similar.[/quote]



It was apparent this guy went over to kill his neighbor and he wanted to video tape it to "prove" it. Yet, he was saying how "scared and threatened" he was, yet it was HIM that went onto his property and remained their instead of retreating back to his property to wait for the police. He tried to get away with cold blooded murder, and it was his idea that got him convicted. I was hoping they execute this dumbass. The world would be a better place. I'll donate $5 towards the costs.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I like the part of the tape where he says: "'It's about to get out of hand sir, please help me. Please help me, my life is in danger now ...,' Rodriguez told police over the phone. 'Now, I'm standing my ground here. Now, these people are going to try and kill me.'"

You're life is in danger? Then don't f***'ing "stand your ground" in your neighbor's yard waving a gun.

YOU ... Out of the gene pool!

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=12thMan;921385]Probably the most cogent, objective analysis I've heard anywhere from anyone regarding this case.[/quote]


Couldnt agree more

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;921413]I like the part of the tape where he says: "'It's about to get out of hand sir, please help me. Please help me, my life is in danger now ...,' Rodriguez told police over the phone. 'Now, I'm standing my ground here. Now, these people are going to try and kill me.'"

You're life is in danger? Then don't f***'ing "stand your ground" in your neighbor's yard waving a gun.

YOU ... Out of the gene pool![/quote]

"The defense did not present much of a case as it called no witnesses and Rodriguez didn't testify. Legal experts say if defendants are going to successfully argue self-defense, the jury wants to hear from them."

This coward was so ashamed he wouldnt even take the stand to defends such a bs story. people like this shouldnt have the right to own a gun

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;921420]"The defense did not present much of a case as it called no witnesses and Rodriguez didn't testify. Legal experts say if defendants are going to successfully argue self-defense, the jury wants to hear from them."

This coward was so ashamed he wouldnt even take the stand to defends such a bs story. people like this shouldnt have the right to own a gun[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_01/sp_0103_12_v6.jpg[/IMG]
Agreed. Can't believe anybody would try using the "It's coming right for us!" defense in real life. Big difference between that and being beaten up, IMO.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-jailhouse-telephone-recordings-released-150859241.html]George Zimmerman’s jailhouse telephone recordings released | The Lookout - Yahoo! News[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Zimmerman's report to the police the next day.

[url=http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news/47903601#47903601]Watch George Zimmerman re-enact Martin shooting - Video on msnbc.com[/url]

It's one side, obviously, and it seems like a lot of it should be verifiable (or disproved) by the physical evidence at the scene. He makes a lot of references to things that others should be able to either affirm or deny.

To me, parts of it sound reasonable. Parts of it not so much.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

George Zimmerman failed to identify himself twice during a confrontation with Trayvon Martin and missed opportunities to defuse the situation that led to the death of the teen, a detective says in a newly released report.

"Investigative findings show that (Zimmerman) had at least two opportunities to speak with (Martin) in order to defuse the circumstances surrounding their encounter," Serino wrote in the report. "On at least two occasions (Zimmerman) failed to identify himself as a concerned resident or a neighborhood watch volunteer."

The detective also said Zimmerman's actions "are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject."

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]Investigator: Zimmerman missed opportunities to defuse situation - CNN.com[/url]

And this is exactly why Zim deserves to be in jail hopefully for the remainder of his life.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-bullied-former-colleague-complaint-says-073851747--abc-news-topstories.html]George Zimmerman Bullied Former Colleague, Complaint Says - Yahoo![/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Texas '[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-stand-ground-shooter-headed-prison-210731482.html"]Stand Your Ground[/URL]' murderer gets 40 years.

Should have got the death penalty.

Gun owners with no control make all gun owners look bad.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-16/news/os-george-zimmerman-jail-phone-calls-20120716_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-shellie-zimmerman]George Zimmerman molested: George Zimmerman witness 9 claims he sexually molested her - Orlando Sentinel[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;925120][url=http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-16/news/os-george-zimmerman-jail-phone-calls-20120716_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-shellie-zimmerman]George Zimmerman molested: George Zimmerman witness 9 claims he sexually molested her - Orlando Sentinel[/url][/quote]

It's hard to take her serious because she's tried to level a few accusations against Zimmerman already. Now this suddenly surfaces?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Look I don't know what happen but once people found out he was sitting on a boat load of money everyone knew him and then the stories start.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

It does seem like all this stuff is coming up only because of the trial. But still if this turns out to be true, lock Zimmerman up for a very long time. For this regardless of the self defense/murder case.

I didn't see it posted here, but it may make sense why this woman waited to come forward. Till Zimmerman was too busy with other stuff to retaliate, if he's indeed that kind of person. Most molestation/rape goes completely unreported for fear of retaliation, humiliation, other reasons. Or she could be another Crystal Mangum. This still needs to be investigated.

And while you technically can't apply a person's background to a present case (can't punish someone or make inferences for past charged misconduct), this is a huge strike against Zimmerman's credibility if there's evidence (witnesses to his saying "sorry" to her or anything).

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;922880]George Zimmerman failed to identify himself twice during a confrontation with Trayvon Martin and missed opportunities to defuse the situation that led to the death of the teen, a detective says in a newly released report.

"Investigative findings show that (Zimmerman) had at least two opportunities to speak with (Martin) in order to defuse the circumstances surrounding their encounter," Serino wrote in the report. "On at least two occasions (Zimmerman) failed to identify himself as a concerned resident or a neighborhood watch volunteer."

The detective also said Zimmerman's actions "are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject."

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]Investigator: Zimmerman missed opportunities to defuse situation - CNN.com[/url]

And this is exactly why Zim deserves to be in jail hopefully for the remainder of his life.[/quote]The article also mentions said officer being demoted afterwards and Zimmerman passing a lie detector test.

"Failed to identify himself"? Zimmerman didn't have to identify himself any more than Martin did. I don't think I know of any people who go around with the attitude "Tell me who you are or I'll beat you up!" on their own time in a public place. A better standard should apply to Zimmerman and Martin in this case.

Considering there's little chance the two could have met if either one really wanted to avoid confrontation (the place they met had wide areas open to escape in at least two directions), and met just before where Zimmerman's truck was without going MMA on each other, both of them "missed opportunities to defuse the situation".

Walking through a neighborhood, following someone in a public place, neither are grounds for assault by themselves. IMO, it all comes down to who started the fight, as to whether Zimmerman's self defense claim can stand. Maybe some evidence will turn up, surveillance camera footage would be a godsend, but I guess that would have been leaked already if it existed.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Don't know what Zimmerman's attorney was thinking letting him do the interview on Fox News.....unless he wants him to be convicted. Idiot.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;925473]Don't know what Zimmerman's attorney was thinking letting him do the interview on Fox News.....unless he wants him to be convicted. Idiot.[/quote]

It was god's plan and I am sure he wouldn't change anything. :doh

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

SMH.
[URL="http://www.nbc-2.com/story/19119389/2012/07/26/no-bond-for-cape-homicide-suspect"]
Florida man kills door-to-door salesman. Salesman shot in head "for effect"[/URL]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

^^needs to go into the gun control thread.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927104]^^needs to go into the gun control thread.[/quote]No, it needs to go in the "nut control" thread. Since there isn't one, we've had one or two other "stand your ground" / "castle" cases here.

edit: Posting in both threads is fine with me.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-trial/index.html"]All-female jury to try Zimmerman[/URL]

[I](CNN) -- A jury of six women was chosen Thursday to hear the case of George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer accused of murder in the 2012 killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin.

Five of the six are white. They were chosen from among a pool of 500 potential jurors in the closely watched case against Zimmerman, who faces a second-degree murder charge in Martin's death.[/I]

Zimmerman is screwed......

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1012765][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-trial/index.html"]All-female jury to try Zimmerman[/URL]

[I](CNN) -- A jury of six women was chosen Thursday to hear the case of George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer accused of murder in the 2012 killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin.[/I]

[I]Five of the six are white. They were chosen from among a pool of 500 potential jurors in the closely watched case against Zimmerman, who faces a second-degree murder charge in Martin's death.[/I]

Zimmerman is screwed......[/quote]

I thought the same thing. Now if he is not convicted people will point to the 5 to 1 white jury as the reason.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

zimmerman is a dead man walking imo.

if you are in a fist fight and the other person doesnt have a deadly weapon, you can not shoot them. that is murder.

kinda hard to claim self defense when there was only 1 gun and you were the one holding it and discharging it into an unarmed person.

RACIAL PROFILING HAS TO STOP.

edit - its funny. in the video re-enactment zimmerman did he says "then i put my hand on his mouth and said .. .. no he put his hand on my mouth and said shut the eff up.... "

he also said that martin confronted him and sd "do you have a problem". zimmerman then sd that he sd "no i dont have a problem" ... zimmerman seemed very confrontational on the phone call to 911 dispatch and his actions of repeatedly following martin yet he claims when he had a chance to confront martin, zimmerman wants us to think he was non-confrontational and just like "no i dont have a problem" ......

plus the 911 calls from neighbors, the repeated screams of help sure sound like a young male imo.

[URL="http://http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2"]http://http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2[/URL]

^^ video of zimmerman's account. even under his version, he wasnt justified in using deadly force since martin was unarmed.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=over the mountain;1012839]zimmerman is a dead man walking imo.[/quote]

You [I]hope[/I], right?

[quote=over the mountain;1012839]if you are in a fist fight and the other person doesnt have a deadly weapon, you can not shoot them. that is murder.

kinda hard to claim self defense when there was only 1 gun and you were the one holding it and discharging it into an unarmed person. [/quote]

Not if it's in self defense and you have a right to carry the weapon. I'm sure there are many people on this forum right now who can kill with their bare hands. If you had to face an attacker who could kill you would you want to be able to defend yourself? NOTE: [I][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]JR has been known to bore people to death. True story.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I]

[quote=over the mountain;1012839]RACIAL PROFILING HAS TO STOP.[/quote]

So does all caps.

If your community is targeted by burglars, as is well documented in this case, then would you challenge everyone who was unfamiliar to you or not? You're seeing racial profiling where there is none.

The media appreciates your compliance in following their rewriting of the facts.

[URL="http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/197363/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-over-editing-of-911-tape-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/"]Oh, and:[/URL]

[I]NBC broadcast three reports using audio edited to make it appear Zimmerman said, “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.” The first report was produced by WTVJ in Miami, which fired reporter Jeff Burnside, who was involved in editing it. “Today” broadcast a report apparently influenced by WTVJ’s that edited the audio the same way; reporter Lilia Luciano lost her job with the network after that. The [Ron] Allen report was broadcast after those two, and apparently used the same audio track as the second.[/I]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Interesting ruling by the Judge:

[quote]9:05 a.m. ET: Nelson has ruled that the five calls Zimmerman made reporting other suspicious people in his neighborhood will be admissible. [/quote]

[url=http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/26/will-eyewitnesses-help-george-zimmerman--trial-day-3-prosecutors?hpt=hp_t2]Will eyewitnesses help Zimmerman prosecutors? | HLNtv.com[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I think Zimmerman gets off.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

so far it seems the defense attorney is treating the first 2 neutral eyewitnesses like adverse witnesses . . i dont think it will be a good strategy to try and discredit every neutral witness. if there is a legit reason why a certain person's testimony should be given less weight, fine.

but to try and discredit every witness shows a pattern that the defense attorney will try to discredit everyone therefore, as a juror, you shouldnt gi ve him cross exam much weight.

i would try and focus on the positive and favorable aspects of some of the neutral witnesses' testimony so it seems that you are on the same side as the witnesses and they are corroborating your version.

to thumb your nose at everyone means its zimmerman's word vs everyone elses. not a good strategy.

edit - very surprised the witness was allowed to say the cries for help sounded like a boy's voice. clearly speculative and whose voice was pleading for help is very material to this case.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=over the mountain;1013387]edit - very surprised the witness was allowed to say the cries for help sounded like a boy's voice. clearly speculative and whose voice was pleading for help is very material to this case.[/quote]

Utterly idiotic given that the 'boy' was 17 and 6'2".

He could easily have had a rich baritone voice, FFS!

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/trayvon_martins_final_hour.html]Articles: Trayvon Martin's Final Hour[/url]

^ Just read this. I never knew about the earbuds or button Trayvon put in his pocket. The button in particular seals it for me; Trayvon took off the things he didn't want to lose or get messed up before he attacked Zimmerman.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Interesting read, thanks mlmpetert.

EDIT:

Particularly this part:
[SIZE=3]
[I][FONT=Garamond]Zimmerman did leave his truck to keep an eye on Martin [U]but consented to the dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin[/U]. [U]He was heading back to this truck when Martin confronted him.[/U] No other explanation makes sense -- except to the Florida prosecutors and the nation's media. [/FONT][/I][/SIZE]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1013411]Interesting read, thanks mlmpetert.

EDIT:

[SIZE=3][I][FONT=Garamond]Zimmerman did leave his truck to keep an eye on Martin [U]but
Particularly this part:
consented to the dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin[/U]. [U]He was heading back to this truck when Martin confronted him.[/U] No other explanation makes sense -- except to the Florida prosecutors and the nation's media. [/FONT][/I][/SIZE][/quote]

[B][COLOR=#2e8b57]Will Zimmerman's past come back to haunt him?

[/COLOR][/B]Judge Debra Nelson heard arguments Tuesday morning on whether the jury in the George Zimmerman trial should hear about other incidents when Zimmerman reported suspicious people in his neighborhood, the Retreat at Twin Lakes.

The former neighborhood watch captain is charged with second-degree murder for shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, 2012. He told police he was pursuing the teenager because there had been a rash of crime in the area. A conflict ensued, and he says he was forced to kill Martin in self-defense.

Prosecutor Rich Mantei said Zimmerman's prior phone calls reporting suspicious people in the neighborhood is relevant to the case, because it helps prove motive by showing his "building level of frustration."

Zimmerman's defense disagreed. "They are going to be asking this jury to make a quantum leap from good responsible citizen behavior to seething anger," O'Mara said Tuesday morning.

Prosecutors called multiple witnesses in quick succession, including Wendy Dorival, who was a volunteer program manager for the Sanford, Florida police department in 2012. She coordinated and helped start the neighborhood watch programs in Zimmerman's community.

Dorival said she worked closely with Zimmerman, because he helped organize the program for his neighborhood. She told him a neighborhood watch volunteer should act as the "eyes and ears" of the police -- but to not like a vigilante.

"If you see a car driving around in circles, and you don't recognize the car in your community that might be suspicious." said Dorival. "If people are walking around in areas that not typically walked on that could be suspicious."

[url=http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/25/george-zimmerman-trial-live-blog-day-2?hpt=hp_t2]Jurors see photos of Trayvon Martin’s body | HLNtv.com[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Mmmmmm, impartiality!

[I]5:23 p.m. ET: O'Mara shows Bahadoor her Facebook page and points out that she signed a petition on Change.org in favor of prosecuting Zimmerman. O'Mara has finished his questions and Bahadoor has been excused.[/I]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1012858]You [I]hope[/I], right?



Not if it's in self defense and you have a right to carry the weapon. I'm sure there are many people on this forum right now who can kill with their bare hands. If you had to face an attacker who could kill you would you want to be able to defend yourself? NOTE: [I][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]JR has been known to bore people to death. True story.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I]



So does all caps.

If your community is targeted by burglars, as is well documented in this case, then would you challenge everyone who was unfamiliar to you or not? You're seeing racial profiling where there is none.

The media appreciates your compliance in following their rewriting of the facts.

[URL="http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/197363/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-over-editing-of-911-tape-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/"]Oh, and:[/URL]

[I]NBC broadcast three reports using audio edited to make it appear Zimmerman said, “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.” The first report was produced by WTVJ in Miami, which fired reporter Jeff Burnside, who was involved in editing it. “Today” broadcast a report apparently influenced by WTVJ’s that edited the audio the same way; reporter Lilia Luciano lost her job with the network after that. The [Ron] Allen report was broadcast after those two, and apparently used the same audio track as the second.[/I][/quote]

If you get into a fist fight with someone in Florida and the other person dies as a result of injures received during the fight, it is charged as murder!!! If the injuries were not from the fight, then no murder. Zimmerman.. murder.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1013452]Mmmmmm, impartiality!

[I]5:23 p.m. ET: O'Mara shows Bahadoor her Facebook page and points out that she signed a petition on Change.org in favor of prosecuting Zimmerman. O'Mara has finished his questions and Bahadoor has been excused.[/I][/quote]

So what? What is the point? She is a prosecution witness. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy. He claims he feared for his life, I'm calling Bullshit!

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1013464]So what? What is the point? She is a prosecution witness. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy. He claims he feared for his life, I'm calling Bullshit![/QUOTE]

Not wasting my time with you, read the thread from the start.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1013370]Interesting ruling by the Judge:



[URL="http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/26/will-eyewitnesses-help-george-zimmerman--trial-day-3-prosecutors?hpt=hp_t2"]Will eyewitnesses help Zimmerman prosecutors? | HLNtv.com[/URL][/quote]

agree , I don't think this goes well for him.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1013463]If you get into a fist fight with someone in Florida and the other person dies as a result of injures received during the fight, it is charged as murder!!! If the injuries were not from the fight, then no murder. Zimmerman.. murder.[/quote]

Of course! Brilliant!! <sarcasm font off>

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

So was today a total disaster for the prosecution?