Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188267]When did Eli Manning ever take a pay cut for the Giants?

Tony Romo said he would at one point, but did he ever follow through?

Tom Brady is taking less than he could have gotten, after a big contract in 2010. You could say that's Tom Brady, or that's his richer wife.

But rather than ask the extraordinary of Kirk Cousins, why not consider this as proof the Redskins FO lowballed Kirk: They are paying more for Smith this season, around 23 mil, than they could have had Cousins signed for a LTD. As low as 20 mil, But Snyder and Allen rejected it.[/quote]
I think people are getting things mixed up,Eli did not take a pay cut but he has done a contact restructuring as well as Brady has.

[url=http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/03/giants_eli_manning_restructure.html]Giants' Eli Manning restructures 2012 salary to create $6.75 million in cap space | NJ.com[/url]

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Hey, how about keeping irrelevant Kirk Cousins stuff off of the Alex Smith thread? Cousins is no longer our QB. Besides, he has his own endless thread.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=mooby;1188266]IIRC 14.5%. But it's a moot point as it seems Kirk doesn't want to be here. Remember he wanted to be with a winner, and we weren't a winner under Kirk. If he blames that on everybody else it was doomed from the start of the losing.

Of course we'll know how important winning is to him when he goes elsewhere. If he takes less money to go to Denver or Minny, then yeah he's about that life. If he goes to Cleveland because they outbid everyone else, than he's not.[/quote]

Also true, but if they had offered Kirk 14-15% of the cap back in 2015 or 2016 things would have likely been different. But would we have wanted that?

Smith’s deal at 23.5M takes up 13.0% of a 180M cap. In future years when the cap goes up, his % goes down.

If Cousins gets $30M this year, that’s 16.7% of the cap. You’re right ultimately he didn’t want to be here, but if it took 16.7% of the cap or more to get it done, we’re better off.

With that difference between Kirk’s (assumed) $30 and Smith’s $23.5 is Morgan Moses and Quinton Dunbar, those two guys combine to occupy $7M of our space. That’s an example, just one, of what $7M can buy you.

He didn’t want to be here and it’s all moot but I wholeheartedly support how Bruce is playing this.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1188270]Hey, how about keeping irrelevant Kirk Cousins stuff off of the Alex Smith thread? Cousins is no longer our QB. Besides, he has his own endless thread.[/QUOTE]This. I can't wait for this whole story to be over.

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Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[url]https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Bolt/Redskins-Alex-Smith-trade-Alex-Smith-jacked-at-opportunity-to-join-Redskins-114918441[/url]

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1188270]Hey, how about keeping irrelevant Kirk Cousins stuff off of the Alex Smith thread? Cousins is no longer our QB. Besides, he has his own endless thread.[/quote]

How is Kirk not relevant to Alex? We're literally switching from one to the other, we'll look back and judge Bruce Allen on the performance of Alex vs Kirk. WTF are you talking bout Willis?

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

"I'm jacked. I'm really excited," Smith said. "Once I found out that things in Kansas City were going in a different direction, I was pumped at the opportunity and when Washington came calling I was hopeful that was a possible destination and I'm just jacked that it worked out and that they wanted me because the feelings were mutual and I'm looking forward to it."

This is want you want to hear from your QB. Sign a veteran receiver, pick a stud running back in round 1 or 2 and lets go. Welcome aboard.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188279]"I'm jacked. I'm really excited," Smith said. "Once I found out that things in Kansas City were going in a different direction, I was pumped at the opportunity and when Washington came calling I was hopeful that was a possible destination and I'm just jacked that it worked out and that they wanted me because the feelings were mutual and I'm looking forward to it."

This is want to hear from your QB. Sign a veteran receiver, pick a stud running back in round 1 or 2 and lets go. Welcome aboard.[/quote]

I agree! I want a grizzled very coming in to be pumped. That type of enthusiasm is exactly what the team needs in this situation.

I love his grit and competitiveness. I think a lot of us had an emotional reaction when the news broke.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how things shake out and am optimistic.

Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

It should definitely help the locker room to have security at the QB position, and just a solid all around guy in Smith. No lingering contract questions, no tag or not to tag bullshit.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188279]"I'm jacked. I'm really excited," Smith said. "Once I found out that things in Kansas City were going in a different direction, I was pumped at the opportunity and when Washington came calling I was hopeful that was a possible destination and I'm just jacked that it worked out and that they wanted me because the feelings were mutual and I'm looking forward to it."

This is want you want to hear from your QB. Sign a veteran receiver, pick a stud running back in round 1 or 2 and lets go. Welcome aboard.[/quote]

say what you want about cousins. but he always said the right things, dont think that was a problem

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;1188285]say what you want about cousins. but he always said the right things, dont think that was a problem[/QUOTE]It depends on what you mean by right things... political, not offensive, and appropriate? Yes, totally agree.

He never seemed inspiring though, and when he said shit about wanting to evaluate the team and wanting to go through the recruitment process again. That might not be toxic, but it doesn't really rally three team either. Yana'mean?

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Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=WillH;1188286]It depends on what you mean by right things... political, not offensive, and appropriate? Yes, totally agree.

He never seemed inspiring though, and when he said shit about wanting to evaluate the team and wanting to go through the recruitment process again. That might not be toxic, but it doesn't really rally three team either. Yana'mean?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Exactly, he came off like an experienced politician, very disingenuous. Has he ever said he was jacked to be here? Don't think so.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Just asking ,did anyone see this?


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/could-alex-smith-trade-fall-193804269.html[/url]

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Giantone;1188288]Just asking ,did anyone see this?

[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/could-alex-smith-trade-fall-193804269.html[/url][/quote]

C'mon man!

Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Smith isn’t backing out, just stop, leave it to Florio to bring mad stupid to the conversation

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

LOL Giantone

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188298]Smith isn’t backing out, just stop, leave it to Florio to bring mad stupid to the conversation[/QUOTE]Offseason... this wonderful time when "journalists" have nothing to talk about so they just make sh*t up or make ideas sound like facts.

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Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=dmek25;1188285]say what you want about cousins. but he always said the right things, dont think that was a problem[/quote]

saying the right things and meaning what you say are two different things . . . Cousins was nothing more than a great liar . . . period!!

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Giantone;1188269]I think people are getting things mixed up,Eli did not take a pay cut but he has done a contact restructuring as well as Brady has.

[url=http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/03/giants_eli_manning_restructure.html]Giants' Eli Manning restructures 2012 salary to create $6.75 million in cap space | NJ.com[/url][/quote]

Yes, and what Eli Manning did was the OPPOSITE of a pay cut. Thanks for the link.

Brady also restructured and made some money doing so. Tom's been in the NFL 19 years. Unlike Eli, Tom also has worked for a lot less than he could have gotten on the open market. Hence why his contract has been called one of the greatest assets the Patriots have.


[URL="https://twitter.com/bykevinclark/status/877607309203001345"]Tom Brady's Contract Is the Greatest[/URL]

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1188305]saying the right things and meaning what you say are two different things . . . Cousins was nothing more than a great liar . . . period!![/quote]

What are you talking about? Or is this more of fans smearing a player because our idiot front office messed up again?

It's like some bizarro world where people freak out the Skins traded a situational player with promise (hate to see the reaction if the Skins traded an every game starter). But when the Skins let our own QB go rather than pay X money, then sign another QB for around the same amount, it's the player's fault! lol.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

I don't believe that Cousins was ever going to sign a long term deal..When he rubbed Scotts hair after that comeback win and said something to him that showed me He was fed up and wanted out..Later we find out Scott himself is not sold on Kirk as the elite/franchise QB..I STILL say if Cousins does not throw that pick late in the Giants game and we had won that game and got in the playoffs there would have been a huge push to get it done..I just hope that nothing crazy happens to screw up Smiths deal and this team learns from this and moves on.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

A lot can happen between now and the official time that Alex Smith signs. If Cousins gets tagged again, there's a chance, however small, that the redskins go back to KC and tell them that the deal is off. There is also the chance the Allen tags Cousins with the exclusive tag, just to spite him and keep him from getting to be free, and choosing to keep Cousins on the bench while playing Smith. But some say that move could have the Redskins face lawsuits / backlash from the NFLPA, that states the franchise tag is meant to be used by teams hoping to reach a long term deal, and not to punish / spite a player. As crazy as all of those scenarios happen, you have to remember who owns the team, and who is running things, which means that they shouldn't sound that crazy at all.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1188312]A lot can happen between now and the official time that Alex Smith signs. If Cousins gets tagged again, there's a chance, however small, that the redskins go back to KC and tell them that the deal is off. There is also the chance the Allen tags Cousins with the exclusive tag, just to spite him and keep him from getting to be free, and choosing to keep Cousins on the bench while playing Smith. But some say that move could have the Redskins face lawsuits / backlash from the NFLPA, that states the franchise tag is meant to be used by teams hoping to reach a long term deal, and not to punish / spite a player. As crazy as all of those scenarios happen, you have to remember who owns the team, and who is running things, which means that they shouldn't sound that crazy at all.[/QUOTE]Keeping both just isn't happening. 20M + 34M for one position?

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Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

Sigh...

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188308]What are you talking about? Or is this more of fans smearing a player because our idiot front office messed up again?

It's like some bizarro world where people freak out the Skins traded a situational player with promise (hate to see the reaction if the Skins traded an every game starter). But when the Skins let our own QB go rather than pay X money, then sign another QB for around the same amount, it's the player's fault! lol.[/quote]

sorry, but cousins is all about the money . . . how many times did he say he would love to keep playing in washington . . . yet he wouldn't even negotiate . . . he was doing nothing more than blowing smoke up fans asses in an attempt to gain the sympathy vote and its simple as that . . . he was a good liar . . . but lied constantly if you look at the things he said and then how he actually acted away from the podium.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=rocnrik;1188309]I don't believe that Cousins was ever going to sign a long term deal..When he rubbed Scotts hair after that comeback win and said something to him that showed me He was fed up and wanted out..Later we find out Scott himself is not sold on Kirk as the elite/franchise QB..I STILL say if Cousins does not throw that pick late in the Giants game and we had won that game and got in the playoffs there would have been a huge push to get it done..I just hope that nothing crazy happens to screw up Smiths deal and this team learns from this and moves on.[/quote]

That pick was rough and still hard to swallow as fans, we don't make the playoffs often and we had a chance to go back 2 back that would have been huge for the team. He was awful in that game.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188330]That pick was rough and still hard to swallow as fans, we don't make the playoffs often and we had a chance to go back 2 back that would have been huge for the team. He was awful in that game.[/quote]

I cant think of many late in the season games that the team as a whole wasnt "awful" -- while a win is a win, even some of those late wins going back a while were nothing that impressive.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188330]That pick was rough and still hard to swallow as fans, we don't make the playoffs often and we had a chance to go back 2 back that would have been huge for the team. He was awful in that game.[/quote]

Agree. I think Cousins has a little bit of spaz in him. I think he has a tendency to get very nervous in big moments.

He's not typically good in Week 1 games - there's a lot of buildup to them of course and until he gets his feet wet his Week 1 games are usually a problem. And then in games where the stakes are high, like that Giants game, he forced himself into a bad and unnecessary decision.

I can see it on his face in those games. You can tell he's nervous. Maybe he gets better with that over time as he gains experience. But I think there's something in his personality - I think he just gets uptight in the big moments.

It might also stem from practicing too safely - Gruden might be onto something there. If you constantly check down to the safer play, even in practice, are you going to be ready to make the big, difficult play in a crunch moment?

If you go strictly by Cousins' numbers he's a top 5 QB, but all of these little things are reflective of why he's more like a 10-15 type QB. He's not going to put a team on his back and pull through in a huge moment. At least he hasn't shown that very often thus far.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188333]Agree. I think Cousins has a little bit of spaz in him. I think he has a tendency to get very nervous in big moments.

He's not typically good in Week 1 games - there's a lot of buildup to them of course and until he gets his feet wet his Week 1 games are usually a problem. And then in games where the stakes are high, like that Giants game, he forced himself into a bad and unnecessary decision.

I can see it on his face in those games. You can tell he's nervous. Maybe he gets better with that over time as he gains experience. But I think there's something in his personality - I think he just gets uptight in the big moments.

It might also stem from practicing too safely - Gruden might be onto something there. If you constantly check down to the safer play, even in practice, are you going to be ready to make the big, difficult play in a crunch moment?

If you go strictly by Cousins' numbers he's a top 5 QB, but all of these little things are reflective of why he's more like a 10-15 type QB. He's not going to put a team on his back and pull through in a huge moment. At least he hasn't shown that very often thus far.[/quote]

He's great week 2 - 14 ish, then for some reason the last few weeks he isn't that great, esp against the Giants, he is god awful vs them.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188333]Agree. I think Cousins has a little bit of spaz in him. I think he has a tendency to get very nervous in big moments.

He's not typically good in Week 1 games - there's a lot of buildup to them of course and until he gets his feet wet his Week 1 games are usually a problem. And then in games where the stakes are high, like that Giants game, he forced himself into a bad and unnecessary decision.

I can see it on his face in those games. You can tell he's nervous. Maybe he gets better with that over time as he gains experience. But I think there's something in his personality - I think he just gets uptight in the big moments.

It might also stem from practicing too safely - Gruden might be onto something there. If you constantly check down to the safer play, even in practice, are you going to be ready to make the big, difficult play in a crunch moment?

[B]If you go strictly by Cousins' numbers he's a top 5 QB, but all of these little things are reflective of why he's more like a 10-15 type QB. He's not going to put a team on his back and pull through in a huge moment. At least he hasn't shown that very often thus far.[/B][/quote]

I'm 100% in line with this and have felt this way for a few years. This is really what drives my non-desire to pay him all that money just because of continuity and the market driving his price up.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

How can an NFC East team pay their QB 30 millionish if he can't beat the Cowboys or Giants?

Moving on was the right decision.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35615/alex-smith-might-not-be-an-upgrade-over-kirk-cousins-but-he-will-help-redskins]Alex Smith might not be an upgrade over Kirk Cousins, but he will help Redskins - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

This a good write up, I agree with most statements

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188342]How can an NFC East team pay their QB 30 millionish if he can't beat the Cowboys or Giants?

Moving on was the right decision.[/quote]

1-6 VS Dallas

3-5 VS NYG

4-3 VS PHI.

8-14 vs NFC. East

Says the same about Jay tho too.

Alex Smith hasn't played the teams as much but he also has a losing record vs The east. Although is 3-1 vs us

Side note : Alex is 2-0 VS NE

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188344]1-6 VS Dallas

3-5 VS NYG

4-3 VS PHI.

8-14 vs NFC. East

Says the same about Jay tho too.

Alex Smith hasn't played the teams as much but he also has a losing record vs The east. Although is 3-1 vs us

Side note : Alex is 2-0 VS NE[/quote]

It doesn't count the same to me as if you're outside the division when playing those games. They aren't "rivalry" games then. If we go 0-2 vs. Dallas again I'll lose my shit though.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1188327]sorry, but cousins is all about the money . . . how many times did he say he would love to keep playing in washington . . . yet he wouldn't even negotiate . . . he was doing nothing more than blowing smoke up fans asses in an attempt to gain the sympathy vote and its simple as that . . . he was a good liar . . . but lied constantly if you look at the things he said and then how he actually acted away from the podium.[/quote]

It’s common for a valuable player to want to test the market when they can. If the skins wanted to sign Cousins at a reasonable, they could’ve done it anytime the past couple years for the same price they’re paying Alex Smith now. Insisted they lowballed. We had to lose a draft pick and another player to get Alex Smith again for about the same amount of money we could’ve had Kirk had our front office played it smart.

What did Kirk actually say that he lied about?

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188345]It doesn't count the same to me as if you're outside the division when playing those games. They aren't "rivalry" games then. If we go 0-2 vs. Dallas again I'll lose my shit though.[/quote]

true

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188346]It’s common for a valuable player to want to test the market when they can. If the skins wanted to sign Cousins at a reasonable, they could’ve done it anytime the past couple years for the same price they’re paying Alex Smith now. Insisted they lowballed. We had to lose a draft pick and another player to get Alex Smith again for about the same amount of money we could’ve had Kirk had our front office played it smart.

What did Kirk actually say that he lied about?[/quote]

well . . . first . . . "its not about the money" . . . complete lie . . . thats all its about with him.

then, i want to be a redskin for life . . . he has said that . . . said he hopes to be here . . . told players he looked forward to playing with them next year . . . then doesn't even negotiate or talk to the team . . . he has zero clue how much the redskins would have been willing to offer . . . in negotiations the team should always start low . . .then you get a counter . . . that counter never occurred to see what they really would have paid him . . . had he, and they countered his counter with a fair deal and he didn't take it he would have lost credibility . . . so he didn't counter and all the fans see was the initial offer . . . which OF COURSE is going to be low as thats how negotiations work

the truth would be . . . i can't stand ownership, front office, team, etc. and want to move onto another team that will pay me tons of money . . . i hate the way i was treated . . . etc. etc. etc. . . . but he never said anything close to that . . . no, all he ever said was i would love to be here . . . we are moving in the right direction and i look forward to playing her next year . . . all BULLSHIT

and another thing . . . he claims GOD told him to do this, to do that . . . that is BS too . . . he cannot be the uber perfect religious boy and then go tell lie after lie . . . it just doesn't work that way

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188346]It’s common for a valuable player to want to test the market when they can. If the skins wanted to sign Cousins at a reasonable, they could’ve done it anytime the past couple years for the same price they’re paying Alex Smith now. Insisted they lowballed. We had to lose a draft pick and another player to get Alex Smith again for about the same amount of money we could’ve had Kirk had our front office played it smart.

What did Kirk actually say that he lied about?[/quote]

That’s just not so.

Fact is that there was no offer KC was accepting after the Redskins gave him the franchise tag a couple of years ago. Yes, they could have, and obviously should have signed him to a long term deal then. But not many of us disagreed with their assessment that they wanted to see more before committing to him long term. Perhaps you did.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1188357]well . . . first . . . "its not about the money" . . . complete lie . . . thats all its about with him.

then, i want to be a redskin for life . . . he has said that . . . said he hopes to be here . . . told players he looked forward to playing with them next year . . . then doesn't even negotiate or talk to the team . . . he has zero clue how much the redskins would have been willing to offer . . . in negotiations the team should always start low . . .then you get a counter . . . that counter never occurred to see what they really would have paid him . . . had he, and they countered his counter with a fair deal and he didn't take it he would have lost credibility . . . so he didn't counter and all the fans see was the initial offer . . . which OF COURSE is going to be low as thats how negotiations work

the truth would be . . . i can't stand ownership, front office, team, etc. and want to move onto another team that will pay me tons of money . . . i hate the way i was treated . . . etc. etc. etc. . . . but he never said anything close to that . . . no, all he ever said was i would love to be here . . . we are moving in the right direction and i look forward to playing her next year . . . all BULLSHIT

and another thing . . . he claims GOD told him to do this, to do that . . . that is BS too . . . he cannot be the uber perfect religious boy and then go tell lie after lie . . . it just doesn't work that way[/quote]

I don't know about the religious thing but I do know Kirk has no doubt pulled our legs in this process, when people say the skins could have signed him to a deal I say that is bull shit, they offered him a good deal last yr according to many outlets including ESPN the deal was rumored to be about 22M i believe and he said no he'll play for the 23M tag. Also he keeps saying he wants to "play for a winner and that is all that matters" BS too because all of the teams looking for a QB right now? [B]Denver[/B], Browns, Jets and maybe JAX, the skins have won more games than these teams the last 3 years. He is all about the $$ and even guys on the team (CT) said it in an interview.


Other than Denver who won 5 games this yr and is clearly on the decline.
"You cant pay a QB 30M and then add pieces to make the team better"

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188346]It’s common for a valuable player to want to test the market when they can. [B]If the skins wanted to sign Cousins at a reasonable, they could’ve done it anytime the past couple years for the same price they’re paying Alex Smith now. Insisted they lowballed.[/B] We had to lose a draft pick and another player to get Alex Smith again for about the same amount of money we could’ve had Kirk had our front office played it smart.

What did Kirk actually say that he lied about?[/quote]

It's called negotiating in good faith. The Skins presented an offer, one they expected he would counter, and then work towards a meeting point. KC never returned their offers, basically the same as showing them the hand. You have no evidence from KC that he would have signed a reasonable offer, and in fact I believe KC's dad said Kirk had no intention of signing a long term deal last year. I believe, but also have no evidence, that the deal they gave AS is what they would have given KC last year, and it's a reasonable deal. I back that up with the fact that they kept enough salary cap space rolled over to sign KC to any deal they agreed on, but KC never ever negotiated.