Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278768]Different situation IMO:

- BS probably wants to play here if he gets the right deal.

- If there is an opportunity to trade BS, I think this team makes it happen and will not stubbornly keep him.

- I'm probably being picky here, but I think Kirk was in his prime when his situation happened. I would say BS is slightly past his prime.[/quote]

Agreed, and the difference between then and now I suspect, is BA was always negotiating in bad faith (or incompetence), whereas I suspect RR et al are putting up the tag to buy time for a deal to be signed and probably in constant dialogue with his agent. Didn't BA just walk away from the table with KC instead of negotiate a reasonable deal?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278775]Agreed, and the difference between then and now I suspect, is BA was always negotiating in bad faith (or incompetence), whereas I suspect RR et al are putting up the tag to buy time for a deal to be signed and probably in constant dialogue with his agent. Didn't BA just walk away from the table with KC instead of negotiate a reasonable deal?[/quote]

Again, not to revisit the topic, but between BA negotiating in bad faith and Cousins not wanting to be here, nothing was getting done in that situation.

But you are right, I believe that RR is negotiating in good faith and the tag gives him time.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278781]Again, not to revisit the topic, but between BA negotiating in bad faith and Cousins not wanting to be here, nothing was getting done in that situation.

But you are right, I believe that RR is negotiating in good faith and the tag gives him time.[/quote]

I don't want them to negotiate anymore. Unless somehow Scherff decides he will take way less than 18 million, which why would he, any contract he signs is gonna be absurd for a G.

I wish they made their best offer and left it on the table thru today, and if Scherff didn't want it, both sides moved on.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1278784]I don't want them to negotiate anymore. Unless somehow Scherff decides he will take way less than 18 million, which why would he, any contract he signs is gonna be absurd for a G.

I wish they made their best offer and left it on the table thru today, and if Scherff didn't want it, both sides moved on.[/quote]

I would still try to negotiate a 3-4 year deal. It may not happen, but locking up the first WFT First Team All-Pro since 1996 isn't the worse thing this team could do.

Also, I keep hearing that not having the QB position settled could hurt their chances of landing a good WR without overpaying, but not having the O-line solidified could prevent a decent QB from wanting to come here as well.

Guards may be a dime a dozen, but not Guards of his caliber.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

isnt Trace Mcsorley from PSU with the ravens?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1278784]I don't want them to negotiate anymore. Unless somehow Scherff decides he will take way less than 18 million, which why would he, any contract he signs is gonna be absurd for a G.

I wish they made their best offer and left it on the table thru today, and if Scherff didn't want it, both sides moved on.[/quote]

Oh I think the Redskins are being smart on this. I think they are playing the comp pick game right for once. If Scherff left and they spend big on FAs this year (and I think that is their plan) they'd get nothing for him. Now if he leaves next year (hopefully not of course) and we don't spend big next year we get a 3rd (in 2023). Timing what you do, and how you do it, can really help the team long term.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1278808]Oh I think the Redskins are being smart on this. I think they are playing the comp pick game right for once. If Scherff left and they spend big on FAs this year (and I think that is their plan) they'd get nothing for him. Now if he leaves next year (hopefully not of course) and we don't spend big next year we get a 3rd (in 2023). Timing what you do, and how you do it, can really help the team long term.[/quote]

I hope you are right. We have never been that smart under this owner. Not once. It would be a refreshing change.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Keim said the team is still working with Scherff on a longterm deal. Does everybody just assume this isn't going to happen? I thought the tag seemed relatively unsurprising as it buys more time to negotiate?

[I]"For other key Washington free agents: as of Sunday, there was nothing going on with Ryan Kerrigan, per source; the team is still trying to get deals done with Ronald Darby and Dustin Hopkins; Ryan Anderson is ready to move on, get back to playing as a 3-4 outside linebacker. [B]They'll also continue to work on a long-term deal with guard Brandon Scherff."[/B][/I]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sevier2;1278823]Keim said the team is still working with Scherff on a longterm deal. Does everybody just assume this isn't going to happen? I thought the tag seemed relatively unsurprising as it buys more time to negotiate?

[I]"For other key Washington free agents: as of Sunday, there was nothing going on with Ryan Kerrigan, per source; the team is still trying to get deals done with Ronald Darby and Dustin Hopkins; Ryan Anderson is ready to move on, get back to playing as a 3-4 outside linebacker. [B]They'll also continue to work on a long-term deal with guard Brandon Scherff."[/B][/I][/quote]

The issue is that Scherff has all the power. This FT just guaranteed him a humongous raise. We were talking about a max of 15 or 16 million, and if that was even reasonable. This tag sets the floor at 18 million AAV. This tag puts him in charge. And if nothing else, he makes 18 million and enters into FA again next year.

I don't think the FT should ever be used more than once. The fact that you ever have to use it means negotiations aren't going well. Giving the player even more money just can't help the team. It moves the goalpost in the players favor.

This tag ensures we never sign him long term, unless it's like 3 years and 55 million. No thanks.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1278824]The issue is that Scherff has all the power. This FT just guaranteed him a humongous raise. We were talking about a max of 15 or 16 million, and if that was even reasonable. This tag sets the floor at 18 million AAV. This tag puts him in charge. And if nothing else, he makes 18 million and enters into FA again next year.

I don't think the FT should ever be used more than once. The fact that you ever have to use it means negotiations aren't going well. Giving the player even more money just can't help the team. It moves the goalpost in the players favor.

This tag ensures we never sign him long term, unless it's like 3 years and 55 million. No thanks.[/quote]

Tag more than once: certainly not on a RG!!!!

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sevier2;1278823]Keim said the team is still working with Scherff on a longterm deal. Does everybody just assume this isn't going to happen? I thought the tag seemed relatively unsurprising as it buys more time to negotiate?

[I]"For other key Washington free agents: as of Sunday, there was nothing going on with Ryan Kerrigan, per source; the team is still trying to get deals done with Ronald Darby and Dustin Hopkins; Ryan Anderson is ready to move on, get back to playing as a 3-4 outside linebacker. [B]They'll also continue to work on a long-term deal with guard Brandon Scherff."[/B][/I][/quote]

Does it buy more time or does it annihilate any incentive to sign a LTD for Scherff ?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1278808]Oh I think the Redskins are being smart on this. I think they are playing the comp pick game right for once. If Scherff left and they spend big on FAs this year (and I think that is their plan) they'd get nothing for him. Now if he leaves next year (hopefully not of course) and we don't spend big next year we get a 3rd (in 2023). Timing what you do, and how you do it, can really help the team long term.[/quote]

Is a 3rd round comp worth 18M of cap ?

My issue is unused cap space rolls over to the next season, so why wouldn't you try and use it when it really matters ?

I'll withhold judgement on this and leave them a chance to make a big splash in FA... but I'm not sure it's in line with the 3 to 5 years culture change process... which I have zero issue with... but then why tag BS ?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278831]Is a 3rd round comp worth 18M of cap ?

My issue is unused cap space rolls over to the next season, so why wouldn't you try and use it when it really matters ?

I'll withhold judgement on this and leave them a chance to make a big splash in FA... but I'm not sure it's in line with the 3 to 5 years culture change process... which I have zero issue with... but then why tag BS ?[/quote]

My assumption is they feel they have the cap space for the hit. This year so lets keep stability and it lets them focus on draft capital elsewhere. I would prefer to use that 18 mil for a LT. On a side note: I am hearing in Baltimore the Ravens are shopping Orlando Brown Jr to Jacksonville and asking for a 2nd and 4th. We'll see if that deal goes through.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278830]Does it buy more time or does it annihilate any incentive to sign a LTD for Scherff ?[/quote]

His incentive is to sign a long term deal in case of injury, especially with guarantees. $30M+ over the next 4 years say, would be better than $18M this year and, worst case, nothing more. Teams incentive is less clear, unless they just feel they can't replace his play and his leadership (never to be underrated) in the draft or via FA, either with a straight swap or 2-3 new guys improving the OL overall. I'd suggest if they had confidence in the likes of Martin, Schweitzer etc. they would have let Scherff walk.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1278833]His incentive is to sign a long term deal in case of injury, especially with guarantees. $30M+ over the next 4 years say, would be better than $18M this year and, worst case, nothing more. Teams incentive is less clear, unless they just feel they can't replace his play and his leadership (never to be underrated) in the draft or via FA, either with a straight swap or 2-3 new guys improving the OL overall. I'd suggest if they had confidence in the likes of Martin, Schweitzer etc. they would have let Scherff walk.[/QUOTE]But then why wasn't that offer made before last season ? Tagging him just set a 18M/y floor...

Envoyé de mon SM-J320FN en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278831]Is a 3rd round comp worth 18M of cap ?

My issue is unused cap space rolls over to the next season, so why wouldn't you try and use it when it really matters ?

I'll withhold judgement on this and leave them a chance to make a big splash in FA... but I'm not sure it's in line with the 3 to 5 years culture change process... which I have zero issue with... but then why tag BS ?[/quote]

I doubt they are thinking exclusively about the comp, but it might factor into thinking as one of variables. You would hope. I think the problem is that without Scherff, Moses immediately looks way more average, and so does our C. Then you have needs at lots of other positions, including QB obviously. So maybe, and this is obviously total speculation, you say, we're going to more or less stand pat on the OL this year barring some huge value presenting itself in draft, and try and draft some LBs, CBs, a QB, WR, etc. In that case, you can't let your only truly elite OL go. Maybe they also still have hope of a long term deal. Maybe they plan to be active FA this year and next so want to trade him because they won't get a comp. Lot of ifs. We have no idea what money Scherff is actually lookin for, and given his injury history, guaranteed money might be a sticking point. If he's been this beat up in his 20s, hate to see what his 30s will look like. In the end, it wouldn't surprise me if they resign him just because he is our ONLY elite player on O. Anything longer than a 3 year deal would make me nervous.

One thing I thought about is what if they went D with most of the early picks. A shutdown CB, two LBs. Sign Boston, a true roving cover FS, etc. You would conceivably end up with a DOMINANT D. They may also be planning on a rookie QB or Heinecke, and want to give them every chance to develop and not get them killed. If you drafted a T and QB one two, and have Scherff, then the line looks much, much better

Who knows.

The other thing is it isn't like we're drowning in talent. They may feel like they can resign Scherff and Allen etc. and fill some positions draft or low-priced FA.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278831]Is a 3rd round comp worth 18M of cap ?

My issue is unused cap space rolls over to the next season, so why wouldn't you try and use it when it really matters ?

I'll withhold judgement on this and leave them a chance to make a big splash in FA... but I'm not sure it's in line with the 3 to 5 years culture change process... which I have zero issue with... but then why tag BS ?[/quote]

Is it 18m of cap? We were already paying him 15m. So the right question is 2-3 million of extra cap worth a 3rd round comp pick.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

If trying to get a 3rd rounder next year is the strategy, it's a very bad one.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I imagine we add at least one significant FA that would offset any conditional pick if we let BS walk.

Just waiting for this tsunami of good players to be cut for cap reasons.

is there some spirit to not manipulating the cap like the BS we got tagged for? Bucs added 3 extra voidable years to Davids 2 year contract so his cap hit this year is only like 3.5M.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Interesting to note the tags NOT applied.

[URL="https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff"]https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff[/URL]

I'd be going after Golladay, Henry and Smith from the get go. Maybe Griffin though I think we'll look to the draft for a CB. Fuller, Milano and Samuel too. Given the cap situation and other uncertainties its a bit of a buyers market, so we should be able to pick up at least 3-5 good FA's to boost us, plus some depth. What about Mike Hilton IF we don't re-sign Darby?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

1 week until we sign Kenny Golladay.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278826]Tag more than once: certainly not on a RG!!!![/quote]

He's not just any RG. It wasn't an option to let him hit free agency.

Let's see what Thuney gets in free agency. He should be the highest paid guard, and Scherff should be worth a bit less. Maybe they use Thuney's new contract as a measuring stick for Scherff's new contract.

We'll see.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

If Thuney becomes the top paid guard you can bet BS's camp will want to top it. Just how this works.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1278855]Is it 18m of cap? We were already paying him 15m. So the right question is 2-3 million of extra cap worth a 3rd round comp pick.[/quote]

Well, he wasn't under contract anymore, so if you compare this second tag to letting him walk, which is what I would've done (and rightfully blaming BA for losing yet another crazy talented player), it is indeed 18M of cap...

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278864]Interesting to note the tags NOT applied.

[URL="https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff"]https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff[/URL]

I'd be going after Golladay, Henry and Smith from the get go. Maybe Griffin though I think we'll look to the draft for a CB. Fuller, Milano and Samuel too. Given the cap situation and other uncertainties its a bit of a buyers market, so we should be able to pick up at least 3-5 good FA's to boost us, plus some depth. What about Mike Hilton IF we don't re-sign Darby?[/quote]

I think I prefer Corey Davis as a cheaper complement to McLaurin, but Golladay wouldn't bother me.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[url]https://twitter.com/bscherff68?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor[/url]

I used to fish a ton, not a hunter but would .....

I like visiting BS twitter feed.

Dude is living a good life.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278873]He's not just any RG. [B]It wasn't an option to let him hit free agency.
[/B]
Let's see what Thuney gets in free agency. He should be the highest paid guard, and Scherff should be worth a bit less. Maybe they use Thuney's new contract as a measuring stick for Scherff's new contract.

We'll see.[/quote]

I agree Scherff is crazy talented, and he should've been locked long term 2 years ago... but once that one was messed up by BA, then I would have accepted to let him walk, it's hard to find guys of Scherff's talent, but you can find plug and play decent guards, we've proven that several times in the past, most recent example being Schweitzer.

18M/y for an aging RG who missed 16 games in 3 seasons [I][U]and is coming off one of his worst seasons[/U][/I] just isn't the answer forme.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278874]If Thuney becomes the top paid guard you can bet BS's camp will want to top it. Just how this works.[/quote]

Then he plays under the FT and that's the end. Draft his potential replacement and move on next year.

Thuney is the better player, and more durable. He hasn't missed a game in five years, with 7.5 sacks allowed in those 5 years.

Scherff is damn good, but his availability issues alone are enough for him not to warrant a contract that one up's Thuney's.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278880]Then he plays under the FT and that's the end. Draft his potential replacement and move on next year.

Thuney is the better player, and more durable. He hasn't missed a game in five years, with 7.5 sacks allowed in those 5 years.

Scherff is damn good, but his availability issues alone are enough for him not to warrant a contract that one up's Thuney's.[/quote]

Doesn't matter who's better just matters who's time it is to get paid and reset the market. Scherff coming off an all pro season has more leverage than ever.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278879]I agree Scherff is crazy talented, and he should've been locked long term 2 years ago... but once that one was messed up by BA, then I would have accepted to let him walk, it's hard to find guys of Scherff's talent, but you can find plug and play decent guards, we've proven that several times in the past, most recent example being Schweitzer.

18M/y for an aging RG who missed 16 games in 3 seasons [I][U]and is coming off one of his worst seasons[/U][/I] just isn't the answer forme.[/quote]

dude he was an all pro

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

We are 1 starter level LT to having a good starter and depth OL. I like Lucas in the backup swing tackle role a la Nsechke.

FA, Lucas, Charles, Sharpe
Schweitzer, Martin/Charles
Roullier, Ismael
Scherff, Martin/Charles
Moses, Lucas, Charles

This also means we have room to draft an IOL in the 3rd to 6th round.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278882][B]Doesn't matter who's better[/B] just matters who's time it is to get paid and reset the market. Scherff coming off an all pro season has more leverage than ever.[/quote]

I disagree with that. It matters a whole lot who is better, and injury history plays a role.

If that was the rule, Dak would have exceeded Mahomes in guarantees and average salary, because it was his turn. He didn't.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278864]Interesting to note the tags NOT applied.

[URL="https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff"]https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-franchise-tag-tracker-chris-godwin-marcus-maye-brandon-scherff[/URL]

I'd be going after Golladay, Henry and Smith from the get go. Maybe Griffin though I think we'll look to the draft for a CB. Fuller, Milano and Samuel too. Given the cap situation and other uncertainties its a bit of a buyers market, so we should be able to pick up at least 3-5 good FA's to boost us, plus some depth. What about Mike Hilton IF we don't re-sign Darby?[/quote]

Golladay and Fuller are going to be too expensive. I would rather them target C Davis, C Samuel, or M Jones, and then draft a WR too. It's a deep WR class.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

JP Finlay
@JPFinlayNBCS
·
1h
Ron Rivera on free agency - "We have a couple of guys we'd love to be able to get, immediately"

(Editor note - big swings coming)

---------------------------

For other key Washington free agents: as of Sunday, there was nothing going on with Ryan Kerrigan, per source; the team is still trying to get deals done with Ronald Darby and Dustin Hopkins; Ryan Anderson is ready to move on, get back to playing as a 3-4 outside linebacker. They'll also continue to work on a long-term deal with guard Brandon Scherff.
John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer1d ago

(from yesterday)

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278887]I disagree with that. It matters a whole lot who is better, and injury history plays a role.

If that was the rule, Dak would have exceeded Mahomes in guarantees and average salary, because it was his turn. He didn't.[/quote]

[URL="https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/09/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-dallas-cowboys-dak-prescott-contract-comparison/"]Dak Prescott's contract makes Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes' deal look like a bargain[/URL]

Which deal would you rather have as a player?

[quote]Prescott is reportedly set to make anywhere from $140-160 million total over the course of four years. He has a record-breaking $126 million in guaranteed money attached to his deal, with a $66 million signing bonus upfront. Mahomes’ contract, on the other hand, contained $141 million in total guaranteed money, but only $73 million in upfront guarantees. The big difference here is in the years.

All-in-all, Prescott will make nearly $30 million more than Mahomes over the course of the next four seasons. Then he’ll become a free agent and pursuing a new contract at just 31 years old. That new contract, if things go right for Prescott, would presumably be larger than the last.

At that time, Mahomes will still have seven years left on his contract with the Chiefs. The salary cap will also be much higher than it currently is right now. Consider the other quarterback contracts handed out between now and then, and Mahomes’ monster deal could very well look like a steal.[/quote]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278887]I disagree with that. It matters a whole lot who is better, and injury history plays a role.

If that was the rule, Dak would have exceeded Mahomes in guarantees and average salary, because it was his turn. He didn't.[/quote]

Mahomes' contract is a major outlier here, and even as ridiculous as the numbers are, here is a good comparison between Mahomes' and Dak's contract:

[url]https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/09/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-dallas-cowboys-dak-prescott-contract-comparison/[/url]

The value of Mahomes' contract, on a per year basis, will eventually be surpassed by Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and/or Kyler Murray. Also, in the same length of Mahomes' contract, these young QBs will likely get a second FA contract giving them more guaranteed money than Mahomes.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Dak got the better deal, simple as that.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278894]Dak got the better deal, simple as that.[/quote]

Andrew Brandt was blasting Mahomes' contract when it happened.

But then again, maybe Mahomes wants to be the next Tom Brady and is willing to play at below market value if it means more SB wins.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[url]https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/[/url]

Mahomes has a real interesting contract with how the massive roster bonuses are locked in. By 2025, the chiefs could cut before his 2026 roster bonus kicks in Mahomes and not owe him anything?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1278883]dude he was an all pro[/QUOTE]Watching games and tape did you feel like it was the year he deserved it ?
For me it was like Di Caprio finally getting an Oscar because he deserved it with previous movies, not necessarily with the one he was awarded it on.

Envoyé de mon SM-J320FN en utilisant Tapatalk