Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=punch it in;1123377]Agreed. Even when your QB starts slow - you have to take what the defense gives you.

However there is no arguing this anymore. [B]Just wait till goid KC shows up than Gruden will have called a good game[/B].[/quote]

But this is what I am talking about. As the play caller, you cant just chalk it up to the game plan wasnt working tonight, Oh well. He needs to try something to get the team going. Would we have won the game doing something else? I have no clue. We may have still lost and looked bad. But you dont just give up because the norm isnt working. This isnt about "trying to pass". Its about giving up on the run and going pass happy when your not elite QB was having an off night.

Its not always what the defense gives you. Sometimes you just have to go out there and try to take it. This is the NFL after all.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1123384]But this is what I am talking about. As the play caller, you cant just chalk it up to the game plan wasnt working tonight, Oh well. He needs to try something to get the team going. Would we have won the game doing something else? I have no clue. We may have still lost and looked bad. But you dont just give up because the norm isnt working. This isnt about "trying to pass". Its about giving up on the run and going pass happy when your not elite QB was having an off night.



Its not always what the defense gives you. Sometimes you just have to go out there and try to take it. This is the NFL after all.[/QUOTE]


When you say "doing something else "I can only imagine u mean run more? He tried throwing plenty of screens. They did not work. He went deep. It did not work. He tried three different running backs. The run was not working. We have to leave the fourth quarter alone because he had no choice. Someone mentioned a three tight end set to help run the ball. Do we have any tight ends on our team that can block? That formation is not an automatic slam dunk run and move the sticks magic trick. Especially when they cannot block.
For the first three quarters we were tantalizingly close to moving the chains through the air. However we were not going anywhere on the ground. So I suppose Gruden could have said you know what KC stinks tonite. We are going to keep running into a brick wall. That neither moves the chains nor does it give your qb (really the one u r stuck with, because forget about Colt effing Mccoy) any confidence going forward. He pinned his hopes on the fact that KC was going to get better, instead of pinning them on the fact that our run game was going to suddenly be effective. As the game moved forward it became more urgent to throw.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

A lot of things went wrong Thurs night.

Rhythm was never there.

The Giants were the first team to stack the box and take away the run.

Were Gruden/Mcvay unprepared to adjust when they had to know D coord were going to adjust by week 3? what worked week 1 and 2 were not going to work week 3 against a division opponent.

Or did Kirk miss on those crucial play calls were Gruden/mcvay called a great play call?

1st drive, 3rd and 1, we call (for some reason) a pass to Thompson ... which worked for a 20+ yd gain. penalty negated play, eventual punt.

Kirk was missing throws he normally makes and the run was stuffed. The D did pretty well for all the short fields the Giants had but eventually relented.


just an off night for everyone. hard to judge whose fault it was when everyone had a hand in the making.

good teams dont have off nights like we had.

but we arent a good team yet. we are a sub .500 okay team. ill take that for right now.

hopefully it is motivation to beat the eagles, sit at .500 and 1-1 in the division, which is up for grabs.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

Switching the discussion around a bit, I think the team is pretty banged up and this is going to be a problem in any game moving forward. We just don't have the depth in the roster to overcome this right now. However, the only positive out of this is to get some playing time for some of these backups.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1123389]Switching the discussion around a bit, I think the team is pretty banged up and this is going to be a problem in any game moving forward. We just don't have the depth in the roster to overcome this right now. However, the only positive out of this is to get some playing time for some of these backups.[/QUOTE]


Another positive would be there is nobody like the Pats in our division and it is completely up for grabs.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=punch it in;1123385]When you say "doing something else "I can only imagine u mean run more? He tried throwing plenty of screens. They did not work. He went deep. It did not work. He tried three different running backs. The run was not working. We have to leave the fourth quarter alone because he had no choice. Someone mentioned a three tight end set to help run the ball. Do we have any tight ends on our team that can block? That formation is not an automatic slam dunk run and move the sticks magic trick. Especially when they cannot block.
For the first three quarters we were tantalizingly close to moving the chains through the air. However we were not going anywhere on the ground. So I suppose Gruden could have said you know what KC stinks tonite. We are going to keep running into a brick wall. That neither moves the chains nor does it give your qb (really the one u r stuck with, because forget about Colt effing Mccoy) any confidence going forward. He pinned his hopes on the fact that KC was going to get better, instead of pinning them on the fact that our run game was going to suddenly be effective. As the game moved forward it became more urgent to throw.[/quote]

Yet the 3 TE set worked against 9 in the box against the rams. Yes, I expect the play callers to try it all if the game plan isnt working. I also explained how it helps but you want to ignore that, acting that the Giants wouldnt have widened out when they would have. Widening the Giants defense had a better chance than leaving 8 tackle to tackle and running Morris outside and Jones inside, which should have been switched anyways. You just assume this stuff wont work because it doesnt fit your narrative. Yes, I want them to try. If it doesnt work, then they cant be blamed. But they didnt try, so therefore Jay holds some responsibility.

Just throwing your hands in the air and saying oh well and saying that its not worth trying is something that I dont want the play callers to do. Fans can do that, play callers cannot.

Also "tantalizingly close to moving the chains" is just an overly dramatic way of saying it wasnt working.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=That Guy;1123371]if you're QB is sucking, do you just keep chucking?


we had a bunch of success w/ 3 TEs vs the rams, and basically didn't use it vs the giants on a short week. I understand why we weren't running in the 4th quarter, and kirk put up a lot of garbage time yards that helped make the loss and his stat line look better than it was.

I don't get it, everyone wants us to be a power-running team, yet they're perfectly okay when we go pass happy in the middle of the first quarter, even though that's not what we're good at.[/quote]

KC is an NFL QB and he's hit on many big passing plays here. Just cause he missed a few doesn't mean he won't get the next one. You can't just try and keep running against that many guys in the box. Our Rb's were getting hit before they were getting to the line. You have to try and throw there to loosen up the defense and make them respect your offense.

Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1123391]



Also "tantalizingly close to moving the chains" is just an overly dramatic way of saying it wasnt working.[/QUOTE]


So there is no difference between a QB with all the time in the world who is missing several wide open receivers down field, and one who has no time and nobody open? Id say the first example is extremely......tantalizingly close.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1123393]KC is an NFL QB and he's hit on many big passing plays here. Just cause he missed a few doesn't mean he won't get the next one. [B]You can't just try and keep running against that many guys in the box[/B]. Our Rb's were getting hit before they were getting to the line. You have to try and throw there to loosen up the defense and make them respect your offense.[/quote]
One of the reasons our 91' team was so damn good is if you stacked the box, Ryp' bombed ur ass. Rush 4, get a nice taste of the rush.....

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=ghettodogallstars;1123383]coughlin can out-coach almost every coach in the league, yet the giants lose plenty of games. It's not always about coaching.[/quote]

+100000 !!

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=over the mountain;1123388]...
1st drive, 3rd and 1, we call (for some reason) a pass to Thompson ... which worked for a 20+ yd gain. penalty negated play, eventual punt.



...[/quote]
Looking at 4 offensive plays after that penalty:

3rd and 2 at WSH 27
(13:48) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep right to C.Thompson pushed ob at NYG 40 for 33 yards (B.Meriweather). [B]PENALTY on WAS-J.Reed,[/B] [B]Offensive Pass Interference,[/B] 10 yards, enforced at WAS 27 - No Play.
3rd and 12 at WSH 17
(13:19) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep right to C.Thompson.
4th and 12 at WSH 17
(13:07) T.Way punts 53 yards to NYG 30, Center-N.Sundberg. D.Harris to 50 for 20 yards (J.Jeffcoat). Penalty on NYG-R.Jennings, Running Into the Kicker, offsetting, enforced at WAS 17 - No Play. [B]Penalty on WAS-B.Breeland, Player Out of Bounds on Punt, offsetting[/B].
4th and 12 at WSH 17
[B]Punt Blocked [/B]by Rashad Jennings Out of End Zone For Safety

1st and 10 at WSH 6
(9:03) A.Morris left tackle to WAS 9 for 3 yards (B.Meriweather, J.Bromley). WAS-[B]S.Lauvao was injured during the play[/B].
2nd and 7 at WSH 9
(8:42) K.Cousins pass short middle intended for P.Garcon[B] INTERCEPTED[/B] by P.Amukamara [D.Kennard] at WAS 20. P.Amukamara to WAS 14 for 6 yards (D.Carrier).


Yes, I get that coaching can be and should be critiqued, but IF you take away the penalties - which primarily are on the players, and secondarily on the coaches - 2 times over we would not have had a punt blocked for a safety - the first penalty negated a first down far away from the end zone, and 3 more opportunities to run or pass, and the second penalty (both a bone headed play and secondarily a ST coaching error) negated a successful punt.

then we ran ([sarc]WHAT, I thought we didn't [/sarc]) and lost our LG for injury then KC threw what everyone is saying was absolutely on him.

So at that point we were down by 9 and we must have gone pass happy listening to the Warpath subtext.

Of course our next 3 and out was a [B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/punt series. (NY got a FG)
then a [B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run/run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/fg series (NY got a FG)
then a pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass(penalty)pass pass/[B]run[/B]/pass(A Roberts drop)/pass/FG (End of half)
11 runs to 13 passes, the last 3 passes got forced into it based on the penalty and the drop.

Honestly, looking at that made me more so wonder if we have a strong tendency of alternating pass/run or if that was a quirk. But I don't think it shows a team that just got away from the run.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=Hog1;1123402]One of the reasons our 91' team was so damn good is if you stacked the box, Ryp' bombed ur ass. Rush 4, get a nice taste of the rush.....[/quote]

Didn't hurt when you had Monk, Clark and Sanders either. But Rip was a great deep ball thrower and Gibbs seemed to know exactly when to drop a bomb on someone.

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1123407][B]Didn't hurt when you had Monk, Clark and Sanders[/B] either. But Rip was a great deep ball thrower and Gibbs seemed to know exactly when to drop a bomb on someone.[/quote]

........maybe

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1123405]Looking at 4 offensive plays after that penalty:



3rd and 2 at WSH 27

(13:48) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep right to C.Thompson pushed ob at NYG 40 for 33 yards (B.Meriweather). [B]PENALTY on WAS-J.Reed,[/B] [B]Offensive Pass Interference,[/B] 10 yards, enforced at WAS 27 - No Play.

3rd and 12 at WSH 17

(13:19) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep right to C.Thompson.

4th and 12 at WSH 17

(13:07) T.Way punts 53 yards to NYG 30, Center-N.Sundberg. D.Harris to 50 for 20 yards (J.Jeffcoat). Penalty on NYG-R.Jennings, Running Into the Kicker, offsetting, enforced at WAS 17 - No Play. [B]Penalty on WAS-B.Breeland, Player Out of Bounds on Punt, offsetting[/B].

4th and 12 at WSH 17

[B]Punt Blocked [/B]by Rashad Jennings Out of End Zone For Safety



1st and 10 at WSH 6

(9:03) A.Morris left tackle to WAS 9 for 3 yards (B.Meriweather, J.Bromley). WAS-[B]S.Lauvao was injured during the play[/B].

2nd and 7 at WSH 9

(8:42) K.Cousins pass short middle intended for P.Garcon[B] INTERCEPTED[/B] by P.Amukamara [D.Kennard] at WAS 20. P.Amukamara to WAS 14 for 6 yards (D.Carrier).





Yes, I get that coaching can be and should be critiqued, but IF you take away the penalties - which primarily are on the players, and secondarily on the coaches - 2 times over we would not have had a punt blocked for a safety - the first penalty negated a first down far away from the end zone, and 3 more opportunities to run or pass, and the second penalty (both a bone headed play and secondarily a ST coaching error) negated a successful punt.



then we ran ([sarc]WHAT, I thought we didn't [/sarc]) and lost our LG for injury then KC threw what everyone is saying was absolutely on him.



So at that point we were down by 9 and we must have gone pass happy listening to the Warpath subtext.



Of course our next 3 and out was a [B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/punt series. (NY got a FG)

then a [B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run/run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/fg series (NY got a FG)

then a pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass/[B]run[/B]/pass(penalty)pass pass/[B]run[/B]/pass(A Roberts drop)/pass/FG (End of half)

11 runs to 13 passes, the last 3 passes got forced into it based on the penalty and the drop.



Honestly, looking at that made me more so wonder if we have a strong tendency of alternating pass/run or if that was a quirk. But I don't think it shows a team that just got away from the run.[/QUOTE]


Shhhh. (If u tell everyone what really happened than we cant just pretend, er i mean, remember - yeah thats it - remember that um Gruden got away from the game plan and effed everything up!)

Re: Giants Post Game Reactions
 

Im not sure what is worse watching the skins play or reading some of these post game experts trying to convince us that they should be coaching a NFL team..truth is a high school football coach is a tough task and most of us could not coach pee wee football..even when given the facts some are so blind they continue to be in denial…When i see the redskins quit playing hard and the coach loses the locker room It will be time to consider a coach change..until that happens I will support this coach.