Re: Obama Care
 

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Canadian"]The Greatest Canadian[/URL] as voted on by Canadians was [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas"]Tommy Douglas[/URL]. If you don't know what I'm talking about or who he is you better ask somebody.

It was a glorious day for America yesterday. One chamber down, one to go.

Re: Obama Care
 

Medicare has problems but they don't tell seniors we're not going to cover you at all. It's real simple, private companies don't want to cover people over 55. Being old is a pre-existing condition.

Re: Obama Care
 

you don't like medicare because you cant make the profit you are use to. for some reason the only people medical professionals don't mind listening to are insurance companies. probably because you scratch their backs, they scratch yours( wink wink)

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621572]check your history. the GOP was also against [B]medicare. that runs fine[/B]. what about the post office? i can mail a letter from Pa., and have in Cal. 3 days later for .50. sounds like a pretty good deal to me. does SS still pay out? last time i checked, it still works. what Gov't programs don't work? other then the no child left behind?[/quote]

Make that statement to.....any doctor. You'll be lucky to come away with your teeth

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;621575]Hey I wonder if drinking will now be a pre-existing condition?[/quote]

If it is, you're screwed. :)

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621598]you don't like medicare because you cant make the profit you are use to. for some reason the only people medical professionals don't mind listening to are insurance companies. probably because you scratch their backs, they scratch yours( wink wink)[/quote]

No, from a voter's perspective, I don't like Medicare because of the inefficiency. Much more is spent than needs to be.

From a business perspective, we make money (a little) on Medicare patients.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621598]you don't like medicare because you cant make the profit you are use to. for some reason the only people medical professionals don't mind listening to are insurance companies. probably because you scratch their backs, they scratch yours( wink wink)[/quote]

And trust me, there's no love lost between providers and insurers. They hate each other, every negotiation is a nasty vicious fight.

Re: Obama Care
 

Let's not forget Republicans were all too happy to pass that 700 billion dollar Medicare Part D...fuckin posers.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;621593][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Canadian"]The Greatest Canadian[/URL] as voted on by Canadians was [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas"]Tommy Douglas[/URL]. If you don't know what I'm talking about or who he is you better ask somebody.

It was a glorious day for America yesterday. One chamber down, one to go.[/quote]
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705]Canadian Health Care In Crisis - CBS News[/url] I for one , have no problem with the Gov't . having programs that help the sick , hurt , elderly , ect. . I just want them to be able to run them without causing more debt , lower our standard of living . I hope , as you might , that we improve the programs we have , SS/MedC,Hud,. The problem is our Gov't is horrible with money-accountability .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;621613]Let's not forget Republicans were all too happy to pass that 700 billion dollar Medicare Part D...fuckin posers.[/quote]
Saden you think your so smart your dumb. Only dumb people jeep wishing for a goverment programs to work when all have failed. Ask a doctor to make a living of Medicare and he will tell you have a nice fucking day I'll find a new job. Sad part is when this fails and cost us tons of money I will not be able to sit back and laugh.
Sorry for posting this Saden as it was after a few and a Skins loss. While I totally disagree with you calling you that was out of line.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621572]check your history. the GOP was also against medicare. that runs fine. what about the post office? i can mail a letter from Pa., and have in Cal. 3 days later for .50. sounds like a pretty good deal to me. does SS still pay out? last time i checked, it still works. what Gov't programs don't work? other then the no child left behind?[/quote]
The PO is loosing billions of dollars. You don't understand saving for retirement if you actually think SS works. If you really think these programs are working then there is no hope for you. I hope you don't run a business.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;621613]Let's not forget Republicans were all too happy to pass that 700 billion dollar Medicare Part D...fuckin posers.[/quote]

Guess what? You're going to be paying for my health insurance! :rofl: Be careful what you ask for.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;622332]Saden you think your so smart your dumb. Only dumb people jeep wishing for a goverment programs to work when all have failed. Ask a doctor to make a living of Medicare and he will tell you have a nice fucking day I'll find a new job. Sad part is when this fails and cost us tons of money I will not be able to sit back and laugh.[/quote]
SS [url=http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2009/07/21/is-social-security-a-giant-ponzi-scheme.aspx]Is Social Security a Giant Ponzi Scheme?[/url] ... [url=http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/12/is_social_secur.html]Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme? - BusinessWeek[/url] this is a little worse ... [url=http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html]Trustees Report Summary[/url].

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;622332]Saden you think your so smart your dumb. [B]Only dumb people jeep wishing for a goverment programs to work [/B]when all have failed. Ask a doctor to make a living of Medicare and he will tell you have a nice fucking day I'll find a new job. Sad part is when this fails and cost us tons of money I will not be able to sit back and laugh.
Sorry for posting this Saden as it was after a few and a Skins loss. While I totally disagree with you calling you that was out of line.[/quote]
you don't get it. no matter who is in office, there will always be gov't programs. so if you have to pay, why not hope they succeed? name one president that hasn't instituted, to some extent, parts of his agenda? these ALWAYS include new programs

Re: Obama Care
 

jeep wishing?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;622408]Guess what? You're going to be paying for my health insurance! :rofl: Be careful what you ask for.[/quote]


I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk72;622686]jeep wishing?[/quote]


Could be a redneck thing? You toss a rock in a pond and wish for a Jeep?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622723]I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.[/quote]

Yeah, I pay my taxes when I can't get away with not paying them.

You actually think this is about helping people? Liberals are so naive. This is about making the insurance companies richer. Do you actually think that these fools could get the green light to pass legislation that hasn't been approved of? Who do you think wrote that bill? :laughing-

I make below the average income in VA so that makes me eligible to receive free benefits ala Saden's hard work, sweat, and toil.

I'm on predator mode. If you can't beat em, might as well mother eff em! Your liberal goody-two-shoes, save-the-world mentality makes you easy prey. It's so easy at VCU.

Thanks for the free lunch sucker. :goodjob: Keep them coming!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622725]Could be a redneck thing? You toss a rock in a pond and wish for a Jeep?[/quote]
I own a jeep and would not wish for another one.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622723]I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.[/quote]
You really don't see how getting better coverage and lower cost cotradict each other? Also if the goverment plan could do this then why not just form a goverment program for the people who think its so great and let others keep what they have without any changes?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621598]you don't like medicare because you cant make the profit you are use to. for some reason the only people medical professionals don't mind listening to are insurance companies. probably because you scratch their backs, they scratch yours( wink wink)[/quote]

He doesn't like medicare because it puts him out of business you dope.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;621613]Let's not forget Republicans were all too happy to pass that 700 billion dollar Medicare Part D...fuckin posers.[/quote]

Agreed. Same crap new day.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;622676]you don't get it. no matter who is in office, there will always be gov't programs. so if you have to pay, why not hope they succeed? name one president that hasn't instituted, to some extent, parts of his agenda? these ALWAYS include new programs[/quote]

Because they cant sustain. Some day all these gov't programs that "work" are going to bankrupt our country and then we will all be screwed. They'll be no programs at all because they'll be no money. Seriously. What do we do then? What do we do when the constant push it forward mentality finally collapses? Can you even comprehend the consequences? Can anyone?

Re: Obama Care
 

Lets hope this does not get through Senate or the Conference Committee. We are all going to pay for this in some form or another.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;622811]He doesn't like medicare because it puts him out of business you dope.[/quote]

If I'm correct a doctors formula is no more then 30% or maybe 40% of his patients can be under medicare and anything over that they have a hard time running the business. If it ends up at 100% the quality of our doctors will drop as they can make a better living doing something else. The two doctors I know make a great living but they also work harder then anyone else I know.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;622804][B]You really don't see how getting better coverage and lower cost cotradict each other?[/B] Also if the goverment plan could do this then why not just form a goverment program for the people who think its so great and let others keep what they have without any changes?[/quote]

I don't know,the 47 million uninsured and those under-insured wouldn't think them contradictory. Oh you don't have to participate in the government plan if you don't want to. You do however have to carry insurance. If you don't want your tax dollars going into the pool tough shit...I got other programs I don't want my money going to as well. I know, life isn't fair...suck it up and make a play!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;622787]Yeah, I pay my taxes when I can't get away with not paying them.

You actually think this is about helping people? Liberals are so naive. This is about making the insurance companies richer. Do you actually think that these fools could get the green light to pass legislation that hasn't been approved of? Who do you think wrote that bill? :laughing-

I make below the average income in VA so that makes me eligible to receive free benefits ala Saden's hard work, sweat, and toil.

I'm on predator mode. If you can't beat em, might as well mother eff em! Your liberal goody-two-shoes, save-the-world mentality makes you easy prey. It's so easy at VCU.

Thanks for the free lunch sucker. :goodjob: Keep them coming![/quote]

Nah, the liberal wing of your clan has your back. I'd like to think my tax dollars are going towards helping my family and friends first. Anything left after that is charity.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622905]Nah, [B]the liberal wing of your clan[/B] has your back. [B]I'd like to think[/B] my tax dollars are going towards helping my family and friends first. Anything left after that is charity.[/quote]

The depression era Democrats of my clan are dead.

Think again sucker. Your buying me a free lunch. :goodjob: Keep em coming!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;622909]The depression era Democrats of my clan are dead.

Think again sucker. Your buying me a free lunch. :goodjob: Keep em coming![/quote]
Helping the wicked is a hard pill to swallow but I'm a soldier. Righteousness and helping the meek is in my DNA.

[quote]But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
-Luke 6:35[/quote]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;622811]He doesn't like medicare because it puts him out of business [B]you dope[/B].[/quote]
any reason for the personal attack?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622915]Helping the wicked is a hard pill to swallow but I'm a soldier. Righteousness and helping the meek is in my DNA.[/quote]

Self-righteous is more like it, but I don't look gift horses in the mouth. Quote the Bible to someone who cares what's in it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;622917]any reason for the personal attack?[/quote]

Yeah I think you're dumb when it comes to politics. You should have seen what I first wrote.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622723]I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it [B]I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage[/B]. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.[/quote]

Explain to me how adding approximately 10% of new customers to an already overburdened and flawed system without a plan to expand the ability to provide services will lower costs? Yes, for those w/out coverage, better coverage is a given. For those with coverage, even a poor plan, explain to me how increasing the burden on providers will provide these individuals with "better coverage" either in a qualitative or quantitative way.

Another side effect I see from this plan is that more bad doctors will get into and stay in practice. They are in high demand now - particularly the GP's - and the only way that our current system will be able to handle the new customers will be to lower the standards for the profession. Get ready for an inflx of MD's from the Aruba School of Medicine.

Regardless - don't confuse this bill with healthcare reform. It is merely healthcare inflation.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;621572]check your history. the GOP was also against medicare. that runs fine. what about the post office?[B] i can mail a letter from Pa., and have in Cal. 3 days later for .50. sounds like a pretty good deal to me.[/B] does SS still pay out? last time i checked, it still works. what Gov't programs don't work? other then the no child left behind?[/quote]

It seems like a wonderful deal until you learn that the USPS lost $2.8billion last year.

Re: Obama Care
 

^^ Which works out to about a $10/person/year surcharge on US Citizens in addition to actual usage. Still a pretty good deal in my opinion. IF the healthcare bill magically provided coverage for all while increasing the quality of care for [I]everyone[/I] for $10/person/year, I would gladly pay it.

It will not and we will end up, IMHO, artificially inflating the current system to the point where healthcare costs become the largest expense for individuals and families - and not by a small amount.

Rather than FIRST regulating the system in a manner to create a truly open market for health care services and THEN creating a regulatory framework to provide universal coverage in a cost efficient manner, the mandatory expansion of the flawed market system will find a way to incorporate the worst effects of socialization and capitilism.

Pardon my doom and gloom. While the goal was worthy, the solution was not.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;622955]^^ Which works out to about a $10/person/year surcharge on US Citizens in addition to actual usage. Still a pretty good deal in my opinion. IF the healthcare bill magically provided coverage for all while increasing the quality of care for [I]everyone[/I] for $10/person/year, I would gladly pay it.

It will not and we will end up, IMHO, artificially inflating the current system to the point where healthcare costs become the largest expense for individuals and families - and not by a small amount.

Rather than FIRST regulating the system in a manner to create a truly open market for health care services and THEN creating a regulatory framework to provide universal coverage in a cost efficient manner, the mandatory expansion of the flawed market system will find a way to incorporate the worst effects of socialization and capitilism.

Pardon my doom and gloom. While the goal was worthy, the solution was not.[/quote]

Why do you have to go and piss on my parade. I was looking forward to free sedatives!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;622928]Yeah I think you're dumb when it comes to politics. You should have seen what I first wrote.[/quote]
why hold back? if your going to attack, go full bore. from now, when i need a political opinion, ill ask you first. you seem to have all the answers

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;622903]I don't know,the 47 million uninsured and those under-insured wouldn't think them contradictory. Oh you don't have to participate in the government plan if you don't want to. You do however have to carry insurance. If you don't want your tax dollars going into the pool tough shit...I got other programs I don't want my money going to as well. I know, life isn't fair...suck it up and make a play![/quote]

For the 260 Million insured, it is contradictory. For the portion of the 47 Million of young healthy adults who have no health issues (estimates run between 15-25 Million), it is a contradiction.

As I have argued before, by creating a governmental insurer of last resort, you will be creating an entity that will either a) be so cost inefficent as to be a huge money pit; or b) a system that will be just competitve enough to drive out similar private systems and make the more comprehensive plans affordable to only the wealthy.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;622815]Because they cant sustain. Some day all these gov't programs that "work" are going to bankrupt our country and then we will all be screwed. They'll be no programs at all because they'll be no money. Seriously. What do we do then? What do we do when the constant push it forward mentality finally collapses? Can you even comprehend the consequences? Can anyone?[/quote]
Seriously, can we not just....."Hope" they succeed?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Hog1;623010]Seriously, can we not just....."Hope" they succeed?[/quote]

You sound like a Redskins fan :doh: