Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

During the broadcast yesterday they spotlighted the Redskins receivers and I noticed that other than the big play to Moss, the Skins receivers could not get open to save their lives. Malcom Kelly is the worst. He is a big body, but Man, he can not separate from anyone. The INT that Campbell threw to him, was because he could not beat his man. I have not seen him beat anyone on a fly or post route yet. Crossing routes OK maybe, but I think his lack of catches are because he can't separate himself from the defender.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602797]You can't say I'm not a true fan, wanting my team to do good for next year. I want us to do bad so we get a high draft pick, and not a mid round pick,which is what I see us getting.[/quote]

The lack of logic in your logic is illogical. In Week 5 you want us to do poorly so we can get a high draft pick? So, you'd rather root against the team so you can feel validated in doubting the QB than root for them with the risk that you could be wrong. PM me when your book on Fandom 101 is coming out, I want a first edition!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;602739]UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.[/quote]

Thank you for posting this and please keep doing it! While I think it's completely pointless to continue to worry/talk about 2 QB who never were and never will be Redskins, some people refuse to let it go so I'd love to keep shutting them up with facts!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;602800][B]The lack of logic in your logic is illogical[/B]. In Week 5 you want us to do poorly so we can get a high draft pick? So, you'd rather root against the team so you can feel validated in doubting the QB than root for them with the risk that you could be wrong. PM me when your book on Fandom 101 is coming out, I want a first edition![/quote]

That is the logic of a Cowboys fan. He wants us to do poorly so the Boys are not in the basement of the NFC East.

[quote=CultBrennan59;602797]You can't say I'm not a true fan, wanting my team to do good for next year. I want us to do bad so we get a high draft pick, and not a mid round pick,which is what I see us getting.[/quote]

Funny how you conveniently left out that you would want us to use that high draft pick on a QB. So even with your "logic" you want us to get a rookie QB to go along with our aging offensive line. You still don't make any sense to me Cowboys fan.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602797]You can't say I'm not a true fan, wanting my team to do good for next year. I want us to do bad so we get a high draft pick, and not a mid round pick,which is what I see us getting.[/quote]

that logic makes sense in weeks 10-16, but right now, we are playing for this year, and in a sense for the future of the team. Don't try to couch your dislike for the current roster/staff in some puffy way. You want the team to fail, because you don't like the qb/hc and various others. I can't imagine calling myself a fan of a team that I want to see lose in week 3 or 4 of a season. That's crazy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;602800]The lack of logic in your logic is illogical.[/quote]

OT, but this quote is sig worthy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=scowan;602798]During the broadcast yesterday they spotlighted the Redskins receivers and I noticed that other than the big play to Moss, the Skins receivers could not get open to save their lives. Malcom Kelly is the worst. He is a big body, but Man, he can not separate from anyone. The INT that Campbell threw to him, was because he could not beat his man. I have not seen him beat anyone on a fly or post route yet. Crossing routes OK maybe, but I think his lack of catches are because he can't separate himself from the defender.[/quote]

Are you serious? I swear that on every play that the WRs are open and JC is not finding them and decides to just dumb down to the nearest receiver/rb without even noticing the open WRs. Are you sure? [end sarcasm]

Let other people tell it JC never sees the open receivers. They are seeing things the way the Qb sees it behind lineman and having to scramble for his life. Malcom has good hands but it slow. That was the rap on him in college. He should be used more as a 3rd down redzone threat. On one of those picks JC threw when he was trying to go to Malcom on the sidelines. Kelly let a smaller and shorter receiver forcing him to the sideline and out position him for a catch. He stopped his stride and reached forward in a strange way. Not saying the Int was his fault. But he read the ball wrong. He should have kept his stride and timed his jump better. If not he should have knocked the ball away. he is 6-3 with good hands but slow and has bad instincts IMO. Mitchell is around the same height but quicker and positions himself better to jump for the ball. Just my thoughts. If you can look at that play and see how he jumps for the ball. He is not extending and is reaching because he doesn't have that much speed. But like I said its not his fault. But he should have made a better play on the ball or prevented the int.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602797]You can't say I'm not a true fan, wanting my team to do good for next year. I want us to do bad so we get a high draft pick, and not a mid round pick,which is what I see us getting.[/quote]

Sorry but you need to turn in your fan card right away. Rooting against your team for a higher pick, in the first quarter of the season no less, is grounds for dismissal.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;602816]Sorry but you need to turn in your fan card right away. Rooting against your team for a higher pick, in the first quarter of the season no less, is grounds for dismissal.[/quote]

Yes it is!! Oh and he admitted he was really a Colts fan and a Colt fan. Not really a Redskins fan. Maybe you should go on IR like Colt..LMAO

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602655]I'm a Colts fan and a Colt Brennan fan...NOT a COWBOYS fan, I hate them and Jessica Simpson, quit saying that, why can't you all atleast have the decentcy to call me a Eagles or Giants fan, then I wouldn't be as mad[/quote]

:spank:

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;602739]UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.[/quote]

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;602821]Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.[/quote]

Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;602827]Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.[/quote]

No, he's better than Campbell because he's won exactly one more game than Jason in his pro quarterbacking career.

BTW, I'm totally using this metric in the offseason. Let's begin the "Orakpo and Fletcher for Kyle Orton" trade scenarios now.

Orton is a proven winner, and as everyone knows, if we just had a proven winning QB here we'd be a Super Bowl contender.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;602821]Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.[/quote]

I totally respect this post!! Yes Kelly does. He is at best a possession receiver. But he is not a second recevier. Sorry guys but neither is Thomas. Who does that leave us with? ARE and Mitchell? But ARE is better in the slot from what I've heard. So why not use Mitchell as the no. 2 receiver? Why because he wasn't drafted in the second round like the other two busts. They have showed nothing. No more than they did last year. Very sad. [I]The analysis before the season started was that one of them needs to step up for us to be successful.[/I] [B]Eh em!![/B] But neither has. Draw your own conclusions on that statement. NO one is bringing that point up as frequently as they are hating on JC. I wouldn't trust those two either. Put Thomas ass on punts sometimes and move Mitchell up to the 2nd spot. Or is that too far fetched? All he did was catch touchdowns this preseason. He would have definitely made a better play on that ball than Kelly. While we are on the subject of changing depth charts. Let Mason run the ball as CP's back up. People say CP is done. But Betts at 30 is [B]really done[/B] (is he even averaging 1 yard per carry?). He offers nothing unique to the team. AT ALL!!!!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Brady and Fahrve win games at the last second, as time runs out. Campbell would do a much better job if we had better blocking by the offensive line. Also, if we could run the ball better, and I'm thinking about 4th and 1 at the goal line, teams wouldn't concentrate so much on Jason's passing game. Really, the running game needs to improve, and it would if we had a better offensive line! (Duh!)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=JLee9718;602866]Brady and Fahrve win games at the last second, as time runs out. Campbell would do a much better job if we had better blocking by the offensive line. Also, if we could run the ball better, and I'm thinking about 4th and 1 at the goal line, teams wouldn't concentrate so much on Jason's passing game. Frankly, the running game would improve if we had a better offensive line![/quote]

Very good point. But some people just can't comprehend that!! Remember JC is the reason for all our problems [end sarcasm]

What is our record when Clinton runs for 100+ yards? Exactly!! :D

He had 98 the last game. We have to run the ball to control time of possession and to wear out a defense. Also to set up the play action. If not we are totally one dimensional and ineffective as a whole.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;602821]Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.[/quote]

I agree. That pass to Kelly is a basic, meat and potatoes play that even average Offenses utilize. I think 1 out of 10 times that ball gets picked and 9 out of 10 it's caught or it's an incompletion. I hope they keep going to it and even start to throw those balls behind the receiver on timing plays. Because we didn't play Kelly last year, he's essentially going through his rookie season. Keep throwing to him, and he'll get better.

If not, Campbell can pull a Brunell and throw to Moss to the tune of 1500 yards and sprinkle in some Cooley. Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league. Other teams have shitty receivers and still manage to put points on the board. Our Offense is just bad across the board.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=44Deezel;602876]Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league. [/quote]

Agreed 100%!! Which is why I'm glad there is no objective quantifiable measurement available which ranks us "one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league".

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=scowan;602884]Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.[/quote]


You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/29793-will-jason-campbell-return-12.html#post557863[/url]. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;602900]You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/29793-will-jason-campbell-return-12.html#post557863[/URL]. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, [B]the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present[/B].[/quote]

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate [B]all the time[/B] and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because [B]all you do is hate[/B]!!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;602908]When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate [B]all the time[/B] and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because [B]all you do is hate[/B]!![/quote]

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32382-week-4-redskins-vs-buccaneers-gameday-14.html#post601374[/url]

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;602940]Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32382-week-4-redskins-vs-buccaneers-gameday-14.html#post601374[/URL]

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.[/quote]

Like I said. When he is doing bad I will say so. So that tells you I am not always on his side. So you are proving my point better than yours. At that point in the game it was the first half and he came back and made up for his mistakes which I said an earlier post. If he had continued playing that way in the second half and didn't bring us back. I would have still felt the way I did in the first half. So dig some more...

Sure you dont work for Snyder? Seems like most of your posts are about merchandising..lol.. [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/search.php?searchid=266154"]The Warpath[/URL]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;602908]When I saw your Avatar title - [B]JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility. [/B]

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate [B]all the time[/B] and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because [B]all you do is hate[/B]!![/quote]

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;602816]Sorry but you need to turn in your fan card right away. Rooting against your team for a higher pick, in the first quarter of the season no less, is grounds for dismissal.[/quote]

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;602900][B]But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating."[/B] Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.[/QUOTE]

So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;602965]Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.[/QUOTE]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;602959]How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.[/quote]

So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602965]Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.[/quote]

Ultra Mega Epic Colossal Post Fail

I was a true fan until we lost and the pregame shows said "why are you a fan?"...

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602965][B]Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL,[/B] Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.[/quote]If that's all it took for you to jump ship, then you're not a "true fan". Don't let the door hit you in the hind-quarters on the way out.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602965]Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.[/quote]

The Cowboys haven't lost to Detroit, why are you saying this? And I must say, you do give up easily.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;602965]Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.[/quote]
:benched:

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;602974]So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil[/quote]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-central/32159-redskins-no-1-pick-2010-nfl-5.html#post595312[/URL]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;602995][URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-central/32159-redskins-no-1-pick-2010-nfl-5.html#post595312[/URL][/quote]

You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. But by your means of comparison.

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;602995][url]http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-central/32159-redskins-no-1-pick-2010-nfl-5.html#post595312[/url][/quote]

Well at least you're not wishing for the team to do badly.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;602972]So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...[/quote]Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;603003]You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. [b]But by your means of comparison.[/b]

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.[/quote]

One the first point (bolded), I have no idea what you mean. On the second point, that is just you reading something into what I am saying that I have never said at all. The fact that Campbell is not the "answer" at quarterback and lacks the skills to be a very good/elite player at the position does not mean that he is the only problem with the offense. I have never said he was the sole problem or replacing him would represent a cure-all. I am, however, trying to be realistic in my evaluation of him as an NFL passer. I find him lacking in the essential characteristics (i.e. ability to quickly process information, play with timing/anticipation) that are necessary for consistent success at the position.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;603009]Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. [B]If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.[/B][/quote]

I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;603010]But that is just you reading something into what I am saying that I have never said at all. The fact that Campbell is not the "answer" at quarterback and lacks the skills to be a very good/elite player at the position does not mean that he is the only problem with the offense. I have never said he was the sole problem or replacing him would represent a cure-all. I am, however, trying to be realistic in my evaluation of him as an NFL passer. I find him lacking in the essential characteristics (i.e. ability to quickly process information, play with timing/anticipation) that are necessary for consistent success at the position.[/quote]

You compared him to Garrard and in the thread you posted you also compared him to Leftwich. All totally different QBs. Garrard when he became a starter was more of a running QB. Leftwich has two cement blocks for feet. Campbell is somewhere in between. But a better passer than both in this point in his career IMO. Garrard is a decent passer. But he was more of a running threat when he first started. JC can run. But rarely does.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;603011]I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.[/quote]

I totally agree. The gentleman posted a link where I was ready to bench Campbell in the first half of the Bucs game. Which I was. SO that shows that I am not going to support JC no matter how he plays. That's all I care about is wins also. Only point I made was people wanted JC to take more risks and he did and it ended up in INTs. But he didn't hodl his head down. he came back at half time and brought us back for the win and seemingly redeemed himself.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

The problem that I have with your analysis, SC, and I suspect many others are in the same boat here, is that you seem to think that Jason is an average or slightly above average QB, and that we merely need to 'address this in the offseason' as if this will resolve many of the team's issues.

And you're not the only one, plenty of people here are clamoring for Zorn and Campbell to be tossed overboard so we can begin our oh-so-beloved quest for the One True Player to deliver us from the arms of mediocrity. Oh, how we love the offseason courtships and dreams of free-spending our way to a championship.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Jason has "lost" the team? Don't you think every one of those guys is pulling for him and wants to see him succeed? After the way Snyder publicly humiliated the guy -- do you honestly think that it's going to be as simple as just replacing one cog in a machine with another, with no ramifications to the rest of the team? I sure don't. The quotes I read the clips I see of interviews tell me that these guys are behind Jason Campbell. All of them may not be with Zorn right now, but I don't see a lot of people preparing to throw JC under the bus. And they sure as hell aren't going to get excited about learning the quirks and habits and proficiencies and deficiencies of a new QB.

So ejecting Campbell and starting over WILL have consequences. We will regress. AGAIN. No new QB coming in here, short of an established veteran winner, is going to command the huddle and assert leadership over the team in their first season, either. You see Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford walking in here and saying "this is my team"? I don't think so.

No, I think what many of us are saying is that we should be capable of fielding a team that does not REQUIRE a quarterback to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to compete at elite levels. Mark Rypien put up some good numbers for a few years, but was he an elite QB or a better-than-average QB who was a good fit in the system?

Kyle Orton is 4-0 this season. Is he elite? Or is he just being asked to be a competent QB most of the game and occasionally make some big plays?

Constantly chasing the holy grail QB is a waste of time. I don't have time to run the numbers, but I'm curious how often you really see a young highly touted QB prospect come in and turn around a team that is mired in mediocrity.

We need to fix a lot of other crap about this organization before we even think about looking for that miracle working QB.