Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

$13MM could get us a top FA safety and a top FA OL or four mid-tier FA's.

We need a lot of help. So, if the Skins decide to pass on paying Orakpo and instead sign 2-4 other good players, I'm not going to complain.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Holy fucking christ. Fans are fucking moronic. I just had a Skins fan say that Orakpo was good in coverage because PFF had him the #2 rated OLB in coverage. :doh:

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Should I eviscerate the Redskins now on this Orakpo thing, or wait for the season? Your call, Warpath.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1061064]Should I eviscerate the Redskins now on this Orakpo thing, or wait for the season? Your call, Warpath.[/quote]

Do your thing

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I like Rak but he never shows up when we play the NFC East. His 1 pass rush moved gets stoned or pushed behind the QB. I would take Clay Matthews or Aldon Smith any day over Rak. If his price tag is reasonable then resign him if not then so be it. Good Luck Brian thanks for your service Brah.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1061064]Should I eviscerate the Redskins now on this Orakpo thing, or wait for the season? Your call, Warpath.[/quote]


DO IT YOU PUSSY!! :laughing-

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1061051]I understand what you two are saying, but I think lots of sacks is still lots of sacks, regardless whether or not they came against NFC East teams, and regardless what kind of move he used to get there. Paying Orakpo 12 million or over is probably too much, but 11 is very reasonable, IMO, considering what kind of DL and scheme he's been rushing with.

Another thing: with the NFL evolving into a more pass happy affair, pass rushers are more valuable than in past years, and will continue to gain value.[/quote]

I would agree if we were one piece away on D, but we need a lot and to tie up that much money for him over a long period time will come back to haunt us. We are the Redskins so it's a lose lose situation for us, we sign him to what he wants and he is same guy we have seen and if we let him go he becomes a premiere pass rusher.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

the fact that they are not 100% behind signing Rak may not be a good thing for Rak fans here

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I don't know exactly where Orakpo's priorities lie in free agency, but Oakland, Chicago, and Seattle all have every reason to offer him the moon to get him to come play for them. He's a cornerstone defensive player. Those guys are expensive...but they're more expensive to replace.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1061073]I don't know exactly where Orakpo's priorities lie in free agency, but Oakland, Chicago, and Seattle all have every reason to offer him the moon to get him to come play for them. He's a cornerstone defensive player. Those guys are expensive...but they're more expensive to replace.[/quote]

Franchise tag is such a strong option

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061074]Franchise tag is such a strong option[/quote]You'd think, right?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

The Bears have about 9m in space, but only have 33 players under contract so I can't see them signing him. Seahawks only have about 5m in cap space, but they are going to have to pay their own players soon ie..Wilson, Sherman and already have a lot committed to Harvin. Oakland has the most money to spend so he could get the best deal from them, but then again it's Oakland.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1061073]I don't know exactly where Orakpo's priorities lie in free agency, but Oakland, Chicago, and Seattle all have every reason to offer him the moon to get him to come play for them. He's a cornerstone defensive player. Those guys are expensive...but they're more expensive to replace.[/quote]


You can scratch Seattle off of that list. They are working on a new deal for Earl and will have to deal with Sherman's contract soon. This doesn't even include Okung's contract coming up within 2 years as well as Wilson's. No way Seattle can drop that kind of coin on Orakpo. I wouldn't call him a "cornerstone" player either. He's a good player, but nothing close to elite.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Signing Rak to a long term deal now is the best thing to do. Most people keep putting out that 11 mil against a 120 mil cap is bad value, but the cap is now over 130 mil and expected to be 150 mil in a few years. 11 mil with a 150 mil cap is not bad at all for him. Top end players are going to be getting higher salaries in the coming years. If Rak was a FA in 3 years, he would be getting 15 mil per year with the exact same play, its just simple economics.

This is also why I think we should extend Trents contract now, because each year that goes by is a mil or two per year to resign him due to the salary cap rising. This is the year to get long term contracts done because they are going to look better and better each successive year where that was not the case in the past.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10532044/the-nfl-salary-cap-break-150-million-2016]The NFL's salary cap could break $150 million by 2016 - ESPN[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061074]Franchise tag is such a strong option[/quote]

Well, sure it is. With the power of the franchise tag, the team is holding a far better hand in negotiations than Orakpo. They just need to franchise tag him and let him know that they wouldn't hesitate to franchise him again next season, as well, if the sides can't find common ground on a multi-year deal.

He would have to wait two years to hit the open market. Meanwhile, if he doesn't sign a long-term deal with the Skins, he'd better hope that he isn't injured when he finally becomes a FA.

His only rational alternative when faced with the prospect of two years of the franchise tag is to try to negotiate a fair long-term deal with the Skins with as much guaranteed money as he can get. Otherwise, he'd be risking a fortune.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

new name MLB/ OLB 6-2 250 Vinny Rey from Cincinnati, he has only started a few games but had great stats

2013/ started 3 games/ 57 tackles/ 4 sacks / 2 interceptions

Gruden should be familiar with him

Everything u just said is spot on.

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

The Redskins would be crazy not to franchise him if they can't reach a long term deal by tomorrow. Yes it's a lot but the cost in terms of money, time and risk of replacement are far greater. You don't just sign 'a few mid level players' and hope to cobble together the expected production of one if your better players. He's not a top 5 OLB or a budding hall of famer but he's better than anyone else we would trot out there to replace him next fall. This organization dives me nuts, smdh.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

In the last two seasons the best run our defense had was when Rank was out. I think we can live out him if he is asking to much.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I think the decision on Orakpo should be based on two things:

1. Are we rebuilding?

Once that is answered, then:

2. What, not who, is our Top Priority?

I think we are rebuilding because we were 3-13 last season, we have a developing young QB, we have a new GM and a new, first-time, HC, and Bruce Allen said wants to add 20 new players during the off-season.

If we're rebuilding, then what is our Top Priority? I think that would probably be protecting our investment in RGIII by improving our pass protection so that he can better develop as a pocket passer. Of course, that means rebuilding the OL first.

I don't think the debate on whether or not to franchise Orakpo is as much about his worth as it is about where we stand as a team and what area of the team we need to focus on improving first. I would guess that if Orakpo is not franchised, then we should expect the Skins to bring in two or even three well regarded OL in FA.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061059]Holy fucking christ. Fans are fucking moronic. I just had a Skins fan say that Orakpo was good in coverage because PFF had him the #2 rated OLB in coverage. :doh:[/quote]

Well he's certainly not a bum either.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1061095]I think the decision on Orakpo should be based on two things:

1. Are we rebuilding?

Once that is answered, then:

2. What, not who, is our Top Priority?

I think we are rebuilding because we were 3-13 last season, we have a developing young QB, we have a new GM and a new, first-time, HC, and Bruce Allen said wants to add 20 new players during the off-season.

If we're rebuilding, then what is our Top Priority? I think that would probably be protecting our investment in RGIII by improving our pass protection so that he can better develop as a pocket passer. Of course, that means rebuilding the OL first.

I don't think the debate on whether or not to franchise Orakpo is as much about his worth as it is about where we stand as a team and what area of the team we need to focus on improving first. I would guess that if Orakpo is not franchised, then we should expect the Skins to bring in two or even three well regarded OL in FA.[/quote]
You know, that's a fair assessment. If we are indeed fully committing to rebuilding (which I don't think we are) then I agree that we shouldn't sink that many resources into one player that's not RGIII related. However, I don't think that's the case here. We committed to a 30 year old CB just 2 weeks ago. Granted, it's at small dollars but still, it shows we are not going the route of the Jaguars and trying to get rid of all big $ contracts to rebuild. This smacks of, once again, too many voices, too many opinions, too much dysfunction in the front office to make a sound decision without all the laundry being aired in the media.

The money to sign Rak against the cap (or at least a good percentage of it) can be offset by cutting Carriker, Bowen, Rocca - players that won't won't be there likely anyways. There's something else going on here, it can't just be about the money.

What's embarrassing is that the 'united message' from Gruden, Allen, Haslett is that Orakpo is our "#1 priority". We're going to look like idiots if we let him walk without franchising, transitioning or re-signing him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

For those against signing Rak, what do we do with Kerrigan once his rookie deal is up? He's putting up similar numbers and will likely demand a hefty contract too. So do we just let him walk as well?

For once it would be nice to focus on our own free agents vs chasing everyone else's.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

There is talk of replacing the whole O-Line except one player.
We have no replacement for Fletcher.
With the exception of Hall we need to rework the entire secondary.
WE need to make a change at DT.
We need another "real" receiver.

How is that NOT rebuilding?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

In order to "rebuild", doesn't that kinda imply you were already "built" at some point? LOL

Whatever you want to call it we're definitely in need of talent in a lot of areas. But I do think with some smart moves and a good draft we can quickly be competitive again.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mattyk;1061104]For those against signing Rak, what do we do with Kerrigan once his rookie deal is up? He's putting up similar numbers and will likely demand a hefty contract too. So do we just let him walk as well?

For once it would be nice to focus on our own free agents vs chasing everyone else's.[/quote]

Between the two Kerrigan is much more of an impact player IMO. I'm on the side of wanting Orakpo back at the right price, but Seattle has shown pass rushers can be had for reasonable prices. Kerrigan is always on the field and he constantly forces more turnovers.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Very true, maybe they are choosing Kerrigan over Rak then. You cant tie that much money into two OLB's when its time to pay Kerrigan. I would like us to keep our own FA's too, but I don't see the difference in over paying for one of your own FA's v.s. someone else's.

[QUOTE=Paintrain;1061103]...

The money to sign Rak against the cap (or at least a good percentage of it) can be offset by cutting Carriker, Bowen, Rocca - players that won't won't be there likely anyways. There's something else going on here,[B] it can't just be about the money.[/B]

...[/QUOTE]
I think it's the no GEICO ads addendum holding it up!

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1061095]I think the decision on Orakpo should be based on two things:

1. Are we rebuilding?

Once that is answered, then:

2. What, not who, is our Top Priority?

I think we are rebuilding because we were 3-13 last season, we have a developing young QB, we have a new GM and a new, first-time, HC, and Bruce Allen said wants to add 20 new players during the off-season.

If we're rebuilding, then what is our Top Priority? I think that would probably be protecting our investment in RGIII by improving our pass protection so that he can better develop as a pocket passer. Of course, that means rebuilding the OL first.

I don't think the debate on whether or not to franchise Orakpo is as much about his worth as it is about where we stand as a team and what area of the team we need to focus on improving first. I would guess that if Orakpo is not franchised, then we should expect the Skins to bring in two or even three well regarded OL in FA.[/quote]

Only teams without a QB are rebuilding. If RG3 is a bust, we're starting over whether Orakpo is on the roster or not. 3-13 doesn't necessarily mean they're rebuilding. The same roster went 10-6 and won the division the year before. The Defense was terrible with him, so how much worse can it be without him. He's injury prone and has like negative 3 sacks in divisional games. This team can't afford to overpay anyone. Let him hit free agency.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mattyk;1061108]In order to "rebuild", doesn't that kinda imply you were already "built" at some point? LOL

Whatever you want to call it we're definitely in need of talent in a lot of areas. But I do think with some smart moves and a good draft we can quickly be competitive again.[/quote]


Yeah 1 Div win in the last 12 plus years means u never built anything

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24464215/bills-byrd-redskins-orakpo-likely-to-go-untagged-hit-nfls-fa-market]Bills' Byrd, Redskins' Orakpo likely to go untagged, hit NFL's FA market - CBSSports.com[/url]

I'm starting to get feeling we let Rak test the market. Rather than give 10+ mil per, I would give Rak the transition tag. I'm convinced Rak wants 11-13 mil per and that's just foolish with all are problems on the Oline WR, LBs and Safeties.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061136][url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24464215/bills-byrd-redskins-orakpo-likely-to-go-untagged-hit-nfls-fa-market]Bills' Byrd, Redskins' Orakpo likely to go untagged, hit NFL's FA market - CBSSports.com[/url]

I'm starting to get feeling we let Rak test the market. Rather than give 10+ mil per, I would give Rak the transition tag. I'm convinced Rak wants 11-13 mil per and that's just foolish with all are problems on the Oline WR, LBs and Safeties.[/quote]

I agree, give him at least the transition tag. We've lost Rogers, Landry and gotten nothing in return let's not do it with Orakpo. Who out there is better than Orakpo? Pay him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061136][url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24464215/bills-byrd-redskins-orakpo-likely-to-go-untagged-hit-nfls-fa-market]Bills' Byrd, Redskins' Orakpo likely to go untagged, hit NFL's FA market - CBSSports.com[/url]

I'm starting to get feeling we let Rak test the market. Rather than give 10+ mil per, I would give Rak the transition tag. I'm convinced Rak wants 11-13 mil per and that's just foolish with all are problems on the Oline WR, LBs and Safeties.[/quote]

To be honest I'd rather give the money for Orakpo towards Byrd. Safety has been an much bigger area of weakness for several years now for us and I feel there are players on the market and in the draft we could get to fill orakpos spot. Like I've said before I'd love to keep the guy but he's misguided thinking he should be getting paid D.Ware type money.

Yeah it doesn't look like rak will be back.

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1061137]I agree, give him at least the transition tag. We've lost Rogers, Landry and gotten nothing in return let's not do it with Orakpo. Who out there is better than Orakpo? Pay him.[/quote]

What's the advantage of giving him the transition tag?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=skinsfanthru&thru;1061138]To be honest I'd rather give the money for Orakpo towards Byrd. Safety has been an much bigger area of weakness for several years now for us and I feel there are players on the market and in the draft we could get to fill orakpos spot. Like I've said before I'd love to keep the guy but he's misguided thinking he should be getting paid D.Ware type money.[/quote]

That's a good question, who would u prefer? IMO I chose Rak, a talented pass rusher over a rangy free safety. I base that too on how to replace Rak, I think there are more options at free safety in the draft and free agency than a 3-4 linebacker.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061146]What's the advantage of giving him the transition tag?[/quote]

Doesn't that give us the option to match offers, receive draft compensation and is a lower overall number than the franchise tag?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061148]Doesn't that give us the option to match offers, receive draft compensation and is a lower overall number than the franchise tag?[/quote]

The transition tag doesnt give any compensation but does the other 2.

The non-exclusive franchise tag (which is different than the franchise tag. The franchise tag does not allow a player to negotiate with any other teams at all) is what gives 2 firsts as compensation if he signs elsewhere and it doesnt get matched.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Man, I feel pretty bitter they won't get this done. Of all the guys to pay Rak is one of them. We let him go and it will come back to haunt us. The guy is what we need to keep on the defense.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Skinzman;1061149]The transition tag doesnt give any compensation but does the other 2.

The non-exclusive franchise tag (which is different than the franchise tag. The franchise tag does not allow a player to negotiate with any other teams at all) is what gives 2 firsts as compensation if he signs elsewhere and it doesnt get matched.[/quote]

Gotcha, thanx