Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1119917]Snyder could get so pissed after another losing season that he blows the whole thing up and starts over. There were rumors earlier during pre-season that he was described as being "livid" when a QB change was suggested to him. It is obvious that it took heavy, heavy persuasion to get him to change his mind, and he most likely told both Scott M and Gruden, that if it didn't work this season, they were both gone, and he'd find someone else to coach RG3.[/quote]I can't see Dan firing Scott based on J's hypothetical failure. Scott inherited J.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1119910]I have a horrible feeling that Jay Gruden gets fired and RG3 stays put, which means that the next new head coach would again start RG3. Has that ever happened in the NFL? Where the starting QB has been benched by two different head coaches for performance??[/quote]I don't think the scenario above has ever happened. Alex Smith is the closest comp iirc he survived through 3 coaching changes before hitting his stride with Harbaugh.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kingj;1119963]Gruden put his hands in the air and made it clear he couldn't work with rg3. The top coaches can work with anyone.

So now, good ole honest jay got his way. He has the qb for his "system." So put up or shut up time for JG.[/quote]I can see how there is potential for Dan to be impatient with J based on J's own impatience with Griffin.

J's decision to make this Kirk's team ends Griffin's development.

Griffin was this franchise's most valuable and talented assest upon J's arrival. I would bet that ending that development after 9 games/7 starts effectively removes the window J would have been granted for 'development'.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1119951]Hey, that inch makes a huuuuuuuuge difference. Huuuuuuge.[/QUOTE]

That's what she said.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

So Griff will be 3rd string moving forward.. Clearly SM is waiting for a trade partner. Griffin lovers should put to bed the possibility of seeing there boy on the field as a Redskin ever again..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kingj;1119963]Gruden put his hands in the air and made it clear he couldn't work with rg3. [B]The top coaches can work with anyone[/B].

So now, good ole honest jay got his way. He has the qb for his "system." So put up or shut up time for JG.[/quote]

This cannot be the most stupid thing I have heard, but at the moment, nothing else comes to mind..........

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run. then he got hurt and threw a fit about not wanting to run read-option, and well, look at 2013. not so great, so that's kind of a bad argument. also notice how many teams are lining up to join in the great RG3 sweepstakes. that should be pretty telling.

also, shanahan is probably a better coach that JG, but he couldn't make it work, so advising JG to follow the same plan that got shanahan fired seems like a really bad idea.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

So the possibility exists that perhaps RG3 never sees an NFL field again as a starter / #2 QB. I wonder if he just doesn't quietly disappear from the league.

So the question i think can now be asked: Is/Was RG3 a bust? I say yes.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

He will play again. Book it.

Too many mediocre QBs out there, someone will take a chance on his talent.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1119988]He will play again. Book it.

Too many mediocre QBs out there, someone will take a chance on his talent.[/quote]

Yea....someone else will take a chance. Might even work out. But it just became too much of a circus here (again) but without the benefit of progression and good play.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kingj;1119967]You are comparing Gruden to belichik?!

Come on now, look at all the well known coaches. Parcells, shanarat, Reid, Gibbs and so on.

They are able to use the personnel they have. Skins fans of all fans should know what a great coach does, look what Gibbs won with!!

Fact of the matter is Gruden is stubborn about what he thinks works, ok so now prove it.

Shanarat, one of the biggest egomaniacs, adjusted and made it work.

Reid has made the playoffs with captain check down at QB and should have beat the colts too.

Gruden is a terrible coach until he proves otherwise and to be as stubborn as he is about his "system" makes it even more amazing to witness.[/quote]

No. I was giving you an example of a "great" coach who has been a dead dog loser without a hall of fame QB taking the snaps.

You are underrating McNabb in his prime. Parcells had Simms, Bledsoe, Romo. Shanahan had Elway. Which Gibbs' QBs were bad?

Almost all of the QBs that played for those coaches were pro-bowlers minus Doug Williams.

Gruden's system last year was a west coast offense style system which is supposed to cover up a poor offensive line. It has been used for decades. It's not this crazy complicated scheme.

It does however require a QB that can throw a three step drop after three steps to a guy with the same color jersey.

Last year he didn't have that.

Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;1119974]This cannot be the most stupid thing I have heard, but at the moment, nothing else comes to mind..........[/QUOTE]


Believe what you want, but it's not like successful coaches or individuals luck into a reputation. Doesn't matter the sport or industry. Maybe right place and right time once, but multiple times? That's not a coincidence.

That's a pretty ignorant comment you just made, in my mind.

Anyway re: JG, it's really getting old. I'm just as tired of his act as I am of RG3's act. Last chance this season to prove he's a competent head coach, IMO.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Hog1;1119974]This cannot be the most stupid thing I have heard, but at the moment, nothing else comes to mind..........[/quote]

Have you heard the one about risking 16 mil cap space next year on a scout team free safety?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Skinzman;1120009]Have you heard the one about risking 16 mil cap space next year on a scout team free safety?[/quote]

Are they really going to try and convert RG3 to a safety?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1120108]Are they really going to try and convert RG3 to a safety?[/quote]

No... Given the limited players that teams have, its not exactly unheard of for the #3 QB to do that. Its just most #3's dont have a 16 mil option for next year and gimpy knees. RG3 tries to plant and change directions and pops his ACL again, that 16 mil is now guaranteed. Thats why it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Nevermind

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[B][U]"Revisionist History"[/U][/B]

[quote=That Guy;1119983]shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run.[/quote]Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in [B][U]2013[/U][/B].

[quote][B][I]Then there was Griffin, who finally resembled the RGIII of last year when he scrambled to make something out of nothing with a 21-yard run deep into the opponent's territory with the score tied in the fourth quarter.[/I][/B][/quote]

[quote]''It's not that I want to run more, I just feel like that's what we need,'' Griffin said. ''If that's what it takes to win games, then I'm willing to do that.''[/quote]

That's from [B][I][U]Week 3[/U][/I][/B] Lions game 2013, where Griffin had 6 rushes for 37 yards. I've posted the highlights from 2013 before, he can and did run read-option.

[quote]...also, shanahan is probably a better coach that JG, but he couldn't make it work, so advising JG to follow the same plan that got shanahan fired seems like a really bad idea.[/quote]Lets not pretend that Griffin got Shanahan fired. And lets also be clear the offense [U][I][B]did[/B][/I][/U] work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.

However; Mike didn't make anything else work. His efforts as a GM were palrty at best: W/L record, league worst defense, historically bad special teams. Then he took a flamethrower to everything.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120589]Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in [B][U]2013[/U][/B].

...

Lets not pretend that Griffin got Shanahan fired. And lets also be clear the offense [U][I][B]did[/B][/I][/U] work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.

However; Mike didn't make anything else work. His efforts as a GM were palrty at best: W/L record, league worst defense, historically bad special teams. Then he took a flamethrower to everything.[/quote]

As we have ALL said, there was plenty of blame to go around. Did RGIII "get Shanahan fired"? No. The complete breakdown of the team got him fired. At the end, nothing was working. Did RGIII contribute to the problem? Yes. Did his play on the field regress? Yes. Did he and his father contribute to the daily drama and general circus atmosphere of 2013? Yes. Did Dan Snyder contribute to the general sh** show that was the end of the 2013 season? Yes.

Shanahan sucked and was knifing as many folks in the back as he could - or at least that's how it seemed to me. RGIII, however, did not play well in 2013. He demonstrated he was not a drop back passer and had a loonggg way to go in that area. He ran the read option, but not with anywhere near the effectiveness of the previous year. And, when it failed or when down and distance removed it from the plays, he lacked the ability to move the team.

I don't have the stats and I am not going back to look them up. Shanahan is gone. RGIII has regressed. DS/BA contributed to the circus atmosphere which created distractions on the field. In 2014, DS/BA brought in a coach who had never worked with a running QB and who tried to fit a square peg in a round hole. It didn't work and the coach was stuck with a player he didn't want to play and the circus continued.

SM got hired and said - my way or the highway. RGIII sits. Coach gets to sink or swim with his guy. At the end of this year, JG & KC are either here together with RGIII gone or everybody is out.

Not sure why we are STILL talking Shanny. He contributed to RGIII's regression, but the man has his own faults to own up to.

Nice article from Keim from back in February that lays it all out nicely:

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/15381/mike-shanahan-on-rg-iii-dan-snyder]Mike Shanahan on RG III, Dan Snyder - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

[quote]But, just a guess here, it's not healthy for an owner who is not a football man to be telling a coach how to use a player. As Shanahan said he told Snyder, after meeting with Griffin and hearing some buzzwords that aroused suspicion, “I told Dan, ‘Hey Dan, I just had a conversation with Robert and I think this conversation is coming from you more so than it is Robert. If that's the case, there's no way, unless your owner, your GM, your head coach and your quarterback are all on the same page you win in the National Football League.” I know Shanahan was concerned about the relationship between Griffin and Snyder before the 2013 season.

Shanahan said Griffin talked to him after his rookie season and let him know what plays he thought were “acceptable and unacceptable.” Shanahan said the words sounded like something Snyder would say. I don't blame Griffin for voicing an opinion, but it also speaks to someone reaching a point in his own mind that he had not hit in reality. But you can only do so if you're enabled. That's why, in some ways (definitely not all), the last guy I blame for this is Griffin. And I don't blame him for wanting to limit the shots. The problem was, he took a lot of them in the pocket or when scrambling – and more than a few of those scrambles could have been avoided by throwing to open receivers.[/quote]

Shanny, 2013, sucked. He set the team back a lot. He set RGIII back a lot. RGIII, 2013, did not help himself much. RGIII, 2014, did a lot himself to hurt the team's chances on the field, with his relationship with his teammates, and to hinder his development.

He's still here. Shanny's gone. Can we move on to where Scot McCloughan is taking this team? B/c KC wasn't horrible and the team ran the ball, stopped the run pretty well, and played tough. They lost through some dumb mistakes - similar to ones in the past - but they punched Miami in the gut and that's a good thing to build off of.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1119992]Yea....someone else will take a chance. Might even work out. But [B]it just became too much of a circus here (again) but without the benefit of progression and good play[/B].[/quote]

... and that, my friend's is that.

RGIII is a talented athlete. Much more athletically gifted than KC will ever be. Whether or not he will ever catch the lightning in a bottle that was 2012 again is debatable. As That Guy and current coaches (apparently) have said, that RGIII is gone. After three concussions, a second ACL tear, and a horrific ankle injury, the QB who sprinted 76 yards against Minnesota - and outran everyone on the field - is just a memory.

Someone will invest in him. I just think his shot at lasting success has come and gone. After this season, his conversion to journeyman QB begins. I hope he can and I hope he flashes again. Just not betting on it.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120589] And lets also be clear the offense [U][I][B]did[/B][/I][/U] work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.[/quote]

I lied ... and am suffering from insomnia ... I did look up the stats.
Offense:
Pts. Scored - 23rd in the league
Total yards - 9th
Passing yards - 16th
Rushing yards - 5th

So, yup. The offense was top 10, and Griffin had an okay rating and stat line. Not as good as 2012, but decent. (INT's up, TD's down, rushing yds/TD down).

Regardless ... that is all in the past. RGIII cannot play the offense required of him by Gruden. It was obvious last year and nothing I saw this year changes that.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1120593]I lied ... and am suffering from insomnia ... I did look up the stats.
Offense:
Pts. Scored - 23rd in the league
Total yards - 9th
Passing yards - 16th
Rushing yards - 5th

So, yup. The offense was top 10, and Griffin had an okay rating and stat line. Not as good as 2012, but decent. (INT's up, TD's down, rushing yds/TD down).

Regardless ... [/quote]Lol, regardless.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1120108]Are they really going to try and convert RG3 to a safety?[/quote]

3rd string QB often lines up as scout team safety. Much ado about nothing really

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120633]3rd string QB often lines up as scout team safety. Much ado about nothing really[/quote]

any Smoot Smackdown for the game?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Chico23231;1120636]any Smoot Smackdown for the game?[/quote]

I've retired

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Don't blame ya smoot.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120589]blah blah blah[/quote]

quoting out of context, missing the point, apologizing for RG3... hat trick! If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012, that's fine, I disagree (as would many), but I'm not getting sucked in to wasting time arguing about things that don't matter.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120597]Lol, regardless.[/quote]

Yes. Regardless of all that crap, it's 2015 and RGIII has shown he cannot succeed in the current coach's offense. You may disagree and that's fine. I have seen what I've seen and I don't need to see no more.

I am rooting for JG to succeed in 2015 and the same for his QB of choice. It's just that simple.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120633]3rd string QB often lines up as scout team safety. Much ado about nothing really[/quote]

It just seems very risky and dangerous. Imagine RG3 cutting real quick to change directions to try and cover a receiver, and he blows out his knee again, or worse. Have no idea why a guy who is an injury concern would even be placed in that situation...

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1120698]It just seems very risky and dangerous. Imagine RG3 cutting real quick to change directions to try and cover a receiver, and he blows out his knee again, or worse. Have no idea why a guy who is an injury concern would even be placed in that situation...[/quote]

Dude you gotta chill, even guys who have never been injured before run the risk of injury on routine plays. It's a part of the game. Torn ACL's have happened by slipping on the grass.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

He could get hurt lifting weights. Can't put him in bubble wrap.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=mooby;1120700]...even guys who have never been injured before run the risk of injury on routine plays. It's a part of the game. Torn ACL's have happened by slipping on the grass.[/quote]

jon jansen 2004 :/ pre season, no one was within 20 feet of him and he didn't even really slip. turf gremlin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1120703]jon jansen 2004 :/ pre season, no one was within 20 feet of him and he didn't even really slip. turf gremlin.[/quote]

Supposedly the final incident that ended Lavar Arrington's NFL career was him slipping on some wet grass, landing hard - and knowing that he was seriously injured right away. He has talked about it on the radio before. The giants wanted him to have surgery and try and come back, but he told his wife he was done...

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1120703]jon jansen 2004 :/ pre season, no one was within 20 feet of him and he didn't even really slip. turf gremlin.[/quote]

If I remember correctly that achilles cost him the whole season. He was as dependable as they come before that too.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1120698]It just seems very risky and dangerous. Imagine RG3 cutting real quick to change directions to try and cover a receiver, and he blows out his knee again, or worse. Have no idea why a guy who is an injury concern would even be placed in that situation...[/quote]

There is no movement like that, like almost literally zero. This is

"RG3 you stand here"

"Ok guys, this is where the safety lines up when the Dolphins are in this formation"

"OK RG, now walk over here"

"Guys, pay attention. Notice where he's positioned here. Don't let that fool you"

And so on

That's what the 3rd string QB does

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120763]There is no movement like that, like almost literally zero. This is

"RG3 you stand here"

"Ok guys, this is where the safety lines up when the Dolphins are in this formation"

"OK RG, now walk over here"

"Guys, pay attention. Notice where he's positioned here. Don't let that fool you"

And so on

That's what the 3rd string QB does[/quote]

Thats actually good to hear. I was assuming that they would run some plays just with no contact.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120702]He could get hurt lifting weights. Can't put him in bubble wrap.[/quote]

Or can we???

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120763]There is no movement like that, like almost literally zero. This is

"RG3 you stand here"

"Ok guys, this is where the safety lines up when the Dolphins are in this formation"

"OK RG, now walk over here"

"Guys, pay attention. Notice where he's positioned here. Don't let that fool you"

And so on

That's what the 3rd string QB does[/quote]


So you're saying he's a very expensive paper weight? :laughing-

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=nc_skins;1120769]so you're saying he's a very expensive paper weight? :laughing-[/quote]

lol

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1120664]quoting out of context, missing the point, apologizing for RG3... hat trick! If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012, that's fine, I disagree (as would many), but I'm not getting sucked in to wasting time arguing about things that don't matter.[/quote]Ugh. I agree 100% about not getting sucked into one of your bait and switch arguments.
But that doesn't mean I'm gonna let untrue statements pass unquestioned.

Here is what YOU said:[quote=That Guy ]shanahan had a different QB than gruden, [B]he had one the could run and wanted to run.[/B] [/quote]Here is my response:
[quote]Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in 2013.[/quote]

Notice no where is the argument being made that Griffin ran as well in 2013 as he did in 2012. I didn't make that point and you didn't either.

So now that you shifted your point to: [B]If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012[/B]. Sure I agree that Griffin in 2013 wasn't as dynamic a player as he was in 2012.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1120591]...In 2014, DS/BA brought in a coach who had never worked with a running QB and who tried to fit a square peg in a round hole. It didn't work and the coach was stuck with a player he didn't want to play and the circus continued.[/quote]Agreed.

[quote]SM got hired and said - my way or the highway. RGIII sits. Coach gets to sink or swim with his guy. At the end of this year, JG & KC are either here together with RGIII gone or everybody is out.[/quote]Or another, maybe less likely scenario: J and Kirk fail, Dan loses patience and fires J; and Griffin remains.

[quote]...Not sure why we are STILL talking Shanny.[/quote]Because That Guy brought him up here....
[quote=That Guy;1119983]shanahan had.....[/quote]