Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1129238]I got a good feeling about Cousins being the future long term QB..he might never be a superstar but with the right players around him he could be very very good for a long time. I just hope if he has a bad game folks don't start in again about him not being the answer..all QB's have those games.[/quote]There are many QBs that can suceed with the right players (and playcalling) aroud him

For many, like myself, Kirk still has questions to answer before we can feel optimistic about his ability to lead the team going forward.

One of those question is consistency. The quality of Kirk's play going forward matters. So a bad game or two or three would rightfully call into question whether Kirk has the consistency to merit being the long term QB.

Right now we don't know if Kirk is Matt Flynn or Matt Hasselbeck or Ryan Fitzpatrick or McKownn

Only game reps and times will anwer Kirk's remaining questions.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1129235]If Cousins turns out to have a very good career, we'll all look back on Shanahan much differently.[/quote]

Well not really. All he had to do was draft KC since he had him rated behind ( I believe) Luck and Griffin. Instead he and the rest of the organization threw away 4 high draft picks. That might go down as one of the worst trades ever. Can't let him ( Allen and Snyder) off the hook for such a poor trade.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Oh. We are still using the word consistency on this page? Thought that was 17 pages ago?

So glad Kirk doesn't have to prove anything to the fans about his "consistency "

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1129238]I got a good feeling about Cousins being the future long term QB..he might never be a superstar but with the right players around him he could be very very good for a long time. I just hope if he has a bad game folks don't start in again about him not being the answer..all QB's have those games.[/quote]

I agree with you completely.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1129250]I agree with you completely.[/quote]

... Yes, but KC has a lot of them.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1129251]... Yes, but KC has a lot of them.[/quote]

Those don't count...

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

^ "Oh, ye of little faith..."

If those who put so much stock in the various QB ratings would just study them closely for all of the QB's, they would see that only the elite QB's don't have the kinds of ups and downs that Kirk has. Yet Kirk is trending up, if you want to use such a small statistical sample.

I believe in the "eyeball test" and what his HC keeps telling us, i.e., he is improving at a steady rate. Yes, he has had and he will have some poor games. So what? Except for the few elite QB's, they all do.

Here's a question for you: Are we better off or worse off at the QB position now than you thought we would be in the preseason?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

KC passed the eyeball test for me in 2012.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

If Cousins starts throwing 3 -4 interceptions on a regular basis i will agree he won't be the answer BUT I'm not freaking out if he has a couple in a game that he is trying to make something happen..heck i would rather him throw a interception 25 yds down the field than get hit and fumble the ball behind the line ..Brett Favre had a lot of interceptions. but he also could hit the big play so all was forgiven. Funny thing if we don't get down by say 2 td's Cousins should not be put in position to try and win the game on his arm..Its a dang team game and that is why its so hard to figure out who KC is..the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS …WHO ARE THE REDSKINS??

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1129256]If Cousins goes back to those 3 -4 interception games on a regular basis i will agree he won't be the answer BUT I'm not freaking out if he has a couple in a game that he is trying to make something happen..heck i would rather him throw a interception 25 yds down the field than get hit and fumble the ball behind the line ..Brett Favre had a lot of interceptions. but he also could hit the big play so all was forgiven. Funny thing if we don't get down by say 2 td's Cousins should not be put in position to try and win the game on his arm..Its a dang team game and that is why its so hard to figure out who KC is..the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS …WHO ARE THE REDSKINS??[/quote]

How many time do you think Kirk Cousins has had a 3-4 INT game?

I swear.. It's like fans don't even watch games.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I edited that..you are correct ..i did not come out like i meant it to. sorry bout that! i will be at game tomorrow
..GO SKINS!!!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1129255]KC passed the eyeball test for me in 2012.[/quote]

Yes....he did hit Garcon in the end zone and then ran it in on the two point conversion against the Ravens to tie the game before OT....a game in which the Redskins won....and he played a spectacular game against Cleveland the following week.....I definitely remember that

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

If the skins keep him longterm which it appears they will, it'd be nice to get him another deep threat next yr along with djax. Open it up as much as they can

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

This is the first 'Skins game in many years that I didn't watch the 2nd half. My local fox affiliate switch to Miami/Dallas about 3 minutes into the 2nd half and because my internet happened to be down I had no way to dial up a stream on the computer. I have no idea how Cousins looked in the 2nd half, but judging by the final score, nothing much at all positive happened on offense the rest of the way out.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1129697]If the skins keep him longterm which it appears they will, it'd be nice to get him another deep threat next yr along with djax. Open it up as much as they can[/QUOTE]


I'm guessing we'll move on from DJ.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1129749]Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?[/quote]

I think it's ridiculous to say he CAN'T throw the ball downfield. We've already seen him do it multiple times since he's been a Redskin. The last two weeks he's put a couple of deep balls right on the money to Jackson.

I don't think it's a trust issue anymore, although I think it WAS one earlier in the season. Particularly against Miami and Atlanta.

You have to remember that we didn't have Jackson most of the season. Still, no excuse not to try and take some deep shots. It's a good question and one that needs to be addressed.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1129751]I think it's ridiculous to say he CAN'T throw the ball downfield. We've already seen him do it multiple times since he's been a Redskin. The last two weeks he's put a couple of deep balls right on the money to Jackson.

I don't think it's a trust issue anymore, although I think it WAS one earlier in the season. Particularly against Miami and Atlanta.

You have to remember that we didn't have Jackson most of the season. Still, no excuse not to try and take some deep shots. It's a good question and one that needs to be addressed.[/quote]

most of the routes are short...Im not really talking deep ball, which we he doesn't throw much at all either.

Im talking the mid routes...balls throw over 10 yards to 20 yards, 25 yards. The o coaching staff doesn't have him throwing these pivotal routes. Why is that? the pass protection is better, so there is more time.

Cousins seems limited

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1129749]Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?[/quote]

Neither one but you already knew that.

in 2014, w 204 drop backs, Kirk had 27 passes go for more then 20 yards, 8 passes over 40. He can certainly deliver the long ball.

this year, w 363 drop backs, he has 26 and 4 respectively.

for whatever reason, when desean went out play 3 of week 1, we just didnt have a replacement. Desean is just now getting back to full speed and hopefully shots down field will open things up.

lack of down field passing and inability to run the ball = very limited, predictable offense.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats]Kirk Cousins: Career Stats at NFL.com[/url]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1129753]most of the routes are short...Im not really talking deep ball, which we he doesn't throw much at all either.

Im talking the mid routes...balls throw over 10 yards to 20 yards, 25 yards. The o coaching staff doesn't have him throwing these pivotal routes. Why is that? the pass protection is better, so there is more time.

Cousins seems limited[/quote]

He can make those throws as he had an in breaking route to Garcon right after the pick. He had two nice short post TD passes last week that were into tight windows that went for TD's. What are you looking at??

He's a system QB that needs a clean pocket to be an effective QB. He obviously does not have the talent level of a Cam Newton.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I know a lot of people like to point to Jackson going out as the reason for the lack of downfield passing, but look around the league and you will see plenty of plays being made downfield that aren't to #1 WRs or guys considered "burners"

A lot of it is play design. I think in general a WCO is not a scheme with a ton of downfield passing. It's about WR's catching the football in space and racking up YAC. What this requires though is very good route running, timing, and the ball being delivered so the WR can catch the ball without breaking their running stride.

Watch the Pats offense and you will see what our offense should probably resemble. You will see Edleman catching most his passes at about 4-5 yards out, but he is running in full stride when the ball hits his hands.

DeSean Jackson adds an additional wrinkle to the offense because of his game breaking speed, but it's not like Gruden is re-designing the offense based on one WR.

It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense. They also largely used running backs that could catch the ball and emphasized screen passes with more importance than running from behind the los. And it was interesting too because McNabb threw a a great deep ball and intermediate level ball, but struggled with accuracy on what were considered the typical "easy" short throws of a WCO, so go figure.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Also, since we are on the topic of "throwing downfield" Let's also remember that throwing downfield is more than being able to heave a ball 50 yards in the air.

It's being able to throw 25 yards on a bee line into the hands of a WR who has maybe a half step on a defender. In the NFL you aren't going to see very many instances of the easy toss to Jackson we saw against Carolina. Even burners are normally much better covered and you have to make a tight throw over their shoulder.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Meks;1129769]Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho[/quote]

Even in the Saints game, Cousins threw short. YAC was the real story of that game. When you go up against better pass defenses, you need to make better, tougher throws.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1129749]Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field: [/QUOTE]I don't think trust or ability is the issue when it comes to downfield passing.

I think Kirk has a decent enough arm. And I believe Jay/McVay have a lot of faith in Kirk as QB.

I think the coaching is the main reason for lack of downfield passing.

I think there has been such an emphasis placed on 'not taking sacks' and getting the ball out quick that it has come at the detriment of the main reason to throw the ball in the first place: chunk yardage.

This passing offense is largely imho geared towards 'replacing the run game'.
We don't throw the "big ball".

The offense is 30th in passes over 25 yards.
30th.

We're 22nd in YPA (up from 30th helped in large part by the Saints game where the huge jump in YPA came from 80% yards after catch)

I think the coaches do a poor job of scheming 'big throws'.
I think Kirk sticks closely to the 'don't take sacks' mantra.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1129782]I don't think trust or ability is the issue when it comes to downfield passing.

I think Kirk has a decent enough arm. And I believe Jay/McVay have a lot of faith in Kirk as QB.

I think the coaching is the main reason for lack of downfield passing.

I think there has been such an emphasis placed on 'not taking sacks' and getting the ball out quick that it has come at the detriment of the main reason to throw the ball in the first place: chunk yardage.

This passing offense is largely imho geared towards 'replacing the run game'.
We don't throw the "big ball".

The offense is 30th in passes over 25 yards.
30th.

We're 22nd in YPA (up from 30th helped in large part by the Saints game where the huge jump in YPA came from 80% yards after catch)

I think the coaches do a poor job of scheming 'big throws'.
I think Kirk sticks closely to the 'don't take sacks' mantra.[/quote]

I don't see schemed square ins, skinny post, deep curls....I see quick slant, quick outs, wr screen, check down and TE who sit 5-8 yard zone pockets....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=over the mountain;1129756]...for whatever reason, when desean went out play 3 of week 1, we just didn't have a replacement. Desean is just now getting back to full speed and hopefully shots down field will open things up.

lack of down field passing and inability to run the ball = very limited, predictable offense.[/quote]All of the above are coaching problems in my eyes.

The list of teams (practically everyone btw) is filled with teams that have limited receiving corps like ours. Heck many of them have worse receiving corps even without DeSean.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1129768]...It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense....[/quote]"WCO" is a broad and often abused term.
But even the 'original' Bill Walsh WCO threw the ball downfield. And while throwing the ball quick and short is an aspect throwing the ball intermediate and downfield are certainly parts of the WCO. Deep outs, Digs, Comebacks, Post, Corners are all staples of Bill Walsh WCO.

Ironically it was Jay's brother that said ~'what do you call a coach and QB driving around throwing "hots"....dumb and dumber'

Bill Walsh even warned about "not being seduced by the relative ease of completing 3-step drop passes".

But you could argue that is exactly what this passing game is doing by design.

BTW 2 of top 5 offenses with passes 25 yards or more are WCO Green Bay #1 and KC #5.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1129783]I don't see schemed square ins, skinny post, deep curls....I see quick slant, quick outs, wr screen, check down and TE who sit 5-8 yard zone pockets....[/quote]Yup.

I'm sure part of it is because Garcon isn't great at separating on his own without the help of scheme. A lot of Jay's offense seems to be reliant on the player winning and making the play or scheme work. Rather then creating a scheme that allows the player to win. Its the difference between Kyle's playcalling with Garcon catching 113 at 11.9 ypc vs 68 balls at 11.1 ypc with Jay/McVay.

Neither here nor there but 2 routes Garcon does well are the skinny post and the dig.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1129785]

Bill Walsh even warned about "not being seduced by the relative ease of completing 3-step drop passes".

But you could argue that is exactly what this passing game is doing by design.

[/quote]

On the importance of screen passes:

“They’re important, especially if you’re playing some of these pass rush teams that like to get up the field and rush. It slows them down a little bit. We have some linemen that are very athletic and can get out in space. Last week was really our first time, we had a lot of success with those screen passes and I expect us to have more as the season goes on. Some teams are not as easy to run screen passes against as others. These guys have two outstanding linebackers that can get really get off blocks and run. But for the most part, screens are a big benefit. [B]I like simple plays that have high reward and low risk.[/B] As long as I trust the quarterback to make good [decisions] — if it is covered to throw it in the dirt — then those are good plays.”

- jay gruden 11.20.15


[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Quotes-Jay-Gruden-And-Sean-McVay-112015/34ccc880-2c05-4fc4-84bd-5cd244a90891]Quotes: Jay Gruden And Sean McVay (11.20.15)[/url]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Not sure how Jay's comments about screens related to my post *shrugs*

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1129746]I'm guessing we'll move on from DJ.[/QUOTE]
I hope not, it's hard to replace that speed

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1129749]Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?[/QUOTE]
I think the WRS aren't getting open enough to go deep downfield. Plus we throw a ton of short passes to help spell the bad run game. Idk what happened to this run game btw

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1129795]Not sure how Jay's comments about screens related to my post *shrugs*[/quote]

Just adding to the discussion about whether Jay/mcvay are overly concentrated on "not taking sacks .. getting the ball out quick" mantra ... falling in love with the low risk throws like screens and short 3 step passes. your post reminded me of the quote i read from jay's presser. thats all. just adding to the discussion. discussing stuff.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1129781]People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. [B]As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.[/[/B]QUOTE]

This...

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

a consistent level of 10+loss seasons...

Josh McDaniels HC/Jim Schwartz DC 2016

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Consistency is good.........if you have figured out a good formula. Consistency for consistency-sake is not good.

Right now I am at peace with whatever happens because I feel we have a legitimate GM in place who is evaluating and has the decision making power. If he feels the Gruden/Cousins era is the best thing for 2016 then so be it.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1129827]Consistency is good.........if you have figured out a good formula. Consistency for consistency-sake is not good.

Right now I am at peace with whatever happens because I feel we have a legitimate GM in place who is evaluating and has the decision making power. If he feels the Gruden/Cousins era is the best thing for 2016 then so be it.[/QUOTE]
I agree

Also, while the team has looked like Crap several times this season, they do seem to have more sprit and seem to be a bit more organized. I have actually noticed some improvement this year over previous years. Obviously there are still some pieces missing, but can see a possibility of this year's team actually reaching 8-8, which would be a moral victory if nothing else.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1129825]a consistent level of 10+loss seasons...

Josh McDaniels HC/Jim Schwartz DC 2016[/quote]

Chico..you can't be serious. Josh McDaniels is a joke. He's the type of guy that's a really good OC but that's it. He is not HC material. All you have to do is look at his stint in Denver, as well as his stop in St. Louis.

He pretty much pissed off everyone in Denver, ran off Jay Cutler, drafted Tebow in the first round and didn't report the taping of the opponents practice.

Pat Bowlen is one of the most patient owners around and you have to fuck up pretty bad for him to run you off in your second year.