Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1188079]Couldn't the NFLPA protest, and Goodell and Co. act, on the basis that they were limiting a player's (Cousins) potential earnings, as well as going way beyond tampering to collusion with other teams?[/QUOTE]


If all sides are on board I’m not sure what there is to protest

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188082]If all sides are on board I’m not sure what there is to protest[/quote]

I just don't think the Skins could get the NFLPA onboard with this. Too much opportunity for a team to threaten a player with the tag and lowball him this way. And abiding by the written rules hasn't stopped Goodell and Mara from penalizing us before...

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

There’s no rules against trading a tagged player, and if he becomes the highest paid player in the league by the Broncos I don’t see how there’s a chance to protest it

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

More I think about it, Macro's proposal is a bad idea. Let's start with tagging Cousins. That doesn't just put him out of free agency, it puts the Skins out of free agency, because the Skins cap is squeezed even with "just" the nonexclusive or transition tag, let along the FT. So again, the Skins FO have no leverage, unless they want to screw themselves and Cousins out of spite.

And why should Cousins trust the Skins at this point?

Add to the NFLPA and league taking a dim view over this inventive way of using the tag, they might hit the Skins harder than they did in Capgate.

I'm sure there are other ways this proposed deal is doomed, those are just what I see.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Yeah maybe it's not so easy...

[URL]http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35547/numerous-obstacles-will-hinder-redskins-ability-to-trade-kirk-cousins[/URL]

[B]Franchise tag sign and trade:[/B] Because it would be a third franchise tag, according to the collective bargaining agreement it must be exclusive. That means only the Redskins can negotiate with Cousins. So, even during the legal tampering window before free agency, Cousins' agent would be unable to discuss contract numbers with other teams.

Yes, there are ways around that, but there are also ways to let other teams know this: Cousins won't agree to any wink-wink extension before free agency. Because of the restrictions, it would raise eyebrows in the league if there were a deal in the first minute of free agency that includes an extension.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Macro;1188029]Hi, I'm new here.
Re: Cousins future.

I believe a tag and trade is being worked upon and is the preferred method for Bruce and Dan. [/quote]

Welcome Macro! I argued the same point before (although not as in much detail) and people scoffed at the idea of a tag and trade. Now, those people are like, "Hmmm, yeah, that could happen!" LOL! Of course, I think it was more realistic of happening prior to trading for Alex Smith. Now, I think it's awfully risky. And I think with some of the rules put in place by the NFLPA, it may not be as straight forward. And knowing the luck of this team, it would probably get dinged for tampering.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1188085]More I think about it, Macro's proposal is a bad idea. Let's start with tagging Cousins. That doesn't just put him out of free agency, it puts the Skins out of free agency, because the Skins cap is squeezed even with "just" the nonexclusive or transition tag, let along the FT. So again, the Skins FO have no leverage, unless they want to screw themselves and Cousins out of spite.

And why should Cousins trust the Skins at this point?

Add to the NFLPA and league taking a dim view over this inventive way of using the tag, they might hit the Skins harder than they did in Capgate.

I'm sure there are other ways this proposed deal is doomed, those are just what I see.[/quote]

I think you're misunderstanding what Macro is saying. He wouldn't apply the tag without first:

1) understanding that Cousins's destination of choice would be team A

2) understanding whether team A would be willing to part with draft picks or players or both

3) understanding that team A and Cousins are comfortable with the terms, given that they'll both want a long term resolution, not a short term one

If all of these conditions are not satisfied, the tag will not be applied in the first place.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188091]I think you're misunderstanding what Macro is saying. He wouldn't apply the tag without first:

1) understanding that Cousins's destination of choice would be team A

2) understanding whether team A would be willing to part with draft picks or players or both

3) understanding that team A and Cousins are comfortable with the terms, given that they'll both want a long term resolution, not a short term one

If all of these conditions are not satisfied, the tag will not be applied in the first place.[/quote]

1). Cousins can do that just fine in FA, with no risk from a deal like this.

2). Why would Cousins and his new team agree to hand the Skins draft picks or players? Unless the Skins try to leverage the tag in a way it's not supposed to be used. I can just hear Mara blubbering now about "the spirit of the tag".

3). Again, Cousins and team A can do that just fine in free agency themselves.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Loving the intelligent dialogue!

Marco, I agree with your thoughts. It would be necessary for Denver to pay a 3rd and Talib because the Redskins could trade him elsewhere.

There is a market for Cousins. I would argue that it's a stronger market than free agency because teams like the Jets, Bills, and Browns, who might not have had a realistic chance in free agency, can get him under the assumption that they can prove to KC that they'll be a long-term winner.

I do think the Eagles and Foles will be a factor. Foles is a Superbowl MVP, his price tag is less, and there will be a PR buzz for the team that takes him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188091]I think you're misunderstanding what Macro is saying. He wouldn't apply the tag without first:

1) understanding that Cousins's destination of choice would be team A

2) understanding whether team A would be willing to part with draft picks or players or both

3) understanding that team A and Cousins are comfortable with the terms, given that they'll both want a long term resolution, not a short term one

If all of these conditions are not satisfied, the tag will not be applied in the first place.[/quote]

Very same points I argued prior to the Alex Smith deal the other day. The assumption would be the Redskins already have a trade partner in place who has already agreed, in principle, on the details of the trade. But, Cousins would also have to be willing to go along with it, and I think this is where it would be tough.

However, now, with Alex Smith on board, I don't see it as likely. If it happens, it's a HUGE risk. Cousins would have to be willing and open to go along with it, and he hasn't shown any reason to want to help the Redskins unless he's actually starting quarterback.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1188095]Loving the intelligent dialogue!

Marco, I agree with your thoughts. It would be necessary for Denver to pay a 3rd and Talib because the Redskins could trade him elsewhere.

There is a market for Cousins. I would argue that it's a stronger market than free agency because teams like the Jets, Bills, and Browns, who might not have had a realistic chance in free agency, can get him under the assumption that they can prove to KC that they'll be a long-term winner.

I do think the Eagles and Foles will be a factor. Foles is a Superbowl MVP, his price tag is less, and there will be a PR buzz for the team that takes him.[/quote]

Foles said he wants to stay

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I'm no Cousins fanboy, but let the man leave and get on with his life in FA. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

We have plenty of cap space to sign a corner to replace Fuller or we can draft one. And we can acquire more picks in more traditional fashions.

Time for all sides to move on.

All Cousins has to do to blow this up is say that he won't sign the tag right away or sign tag immediately and tell all the other 31 teams he's leaving in FA in 2019.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Aqib Talib has a 12 mill cap hit but only 1 mill dead cap for 2018.
a. Is 12 mil too much to pay Talib or would there be a negotiated contract?
b. Could we pick up Talib for less than 12 mil if he gets cut by the Broncos? IMO we could.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1188101]Aqib Talib has a 12 mill cap hit but only 1 mill dead cap for 2018.
a. Is 12 mil too much to pay Talib or would there be a negotiated contract?
b. Could we pick up Talib for less than 12 mil if he gets cut by the Broncos? IMO we could.[/quote]

I hope we do, that would be sick to have him and Norman together, I don't see Breeland coming back

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

None of this makes any sense.

As soon as they place the tag on Cousins, it counts against the salary cap. Cousins does not need to sign his tender for it to count. As soon as they tag him, it counts. The number for the tag is in the neighborhood of 34.5 million. And last check I saw was Washington is 32 million under the cap. Teams are required to be under the salary cap before the start of the new league year, March 14. Additionally, Cousins cannot be traded until he signs that tender. So tagging him would hamstring the organization in free agency.

Why would a team willingly enter into negotiations regarding a trade of a player they KNOW will be a free agent? They know that worst case scenario is they tag KC. If KC does not sign the tag, he is a Free Agent. If KC signs the tag, everyone knows Washington will rescind the tag at the start of the new league year.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1188104]None of this makes any sense.

As soon as they place the tag on Cousins, it counts against the salary cap. Cousins does not need to sign his tender for it to count. As soon as they tag him, it counts. The number for the tag is in the neighborhood of 34.5 million. And last check I saw was Washington is 32 million under the cap. Teams are required to be under the salary cap before the start of the new league year, March 14. Additionally, Cousins cannot be traded until he signs that tender. So tagging him would hamstring the organization in free agency.

Why would a team willingly enter into negotiations regarding a trade of a player they KNOW will be a free agent? They know that worst case scenario is they tag KC. If KC does not sign the tag, he is a Free Agent. If KC signs the tag, everyone knows Washington will rescind the tag at the start of the new league year.[/quote]

They won't do it, for that reason alone

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1188104]None of this makes any sense.

As soon as they place the tag on Cousins, it counts against the salary cap. Cousins does not need to sign his tender for it to count. As soon as they tag him, it counts. The number for the tag is in the neighborhood of 34.5 million. And last check I saw was Washington is 32 million under the cap. Teams are required to be under the salary cap before the start of the new league year, March 14. Additionally, Cousins cannot be traded until he signs that tender. So tagging him would hamstring the organization in free agency.

Why would a team willingly enter into negotiations regarding a trade of a player they KNOW will be a free agent? They know that worst case scenario is they tag KC. If KC does not sign the tag, he is a Free Agent. If KC signs the tag, everyone knows Washington will rescind the tag at the start of the new league year.[/quote]

It's definitely something that the front office would've tried had they not gotten Alex Smith. However, at this point, unless a deal has already been agreed upon (wink, wink, nod, nod) the 'skins should be happy getting a 3rd in 2019 and being done with the Kirk Cousins saga.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

If I'm Kirk I simply state that I'm not signing the FT until well after FA starts so you miss out on most of the FA's you are going to want. He wants to be a FA, let him go.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

don't hate me for posting this

[YT]4BiWtH0HywY[/YT]

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Yeah as we should hear about something in March!

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1188104]None of this makes any sense.

As soon as they place the tag on Cousins, it counts against the salary cap. Cousins does not need to sign his tender for it to count. As soon as they tag him, it counts. The number for the tag is in the neighborhood of 34.5 million. And last check I saw was Washington is 32 million under the cap. Teams are required to be under the salary cap before the start of the new league year, March 14. Additionally, Cousins cannot be traded until he signs that tender. So tagging him would hamstring the organization in free agency.

Why would a team willingly enter into negotiations regarding a trade of a player they KNOW will be a free agent? They know that worst case scenario is they tag KC. If KC does not sign the tag, he is a Free Agent. If KC signs the tag, everyone knows Washington will rescind the tag at the start of the new league year.[/quote]

If a team has draft picks to spare, I think they would rather give that up to have access to Cousins as opposed to competing against other teams in the free agent market.

Cousins can still dictate the negotiations with the team that is willing to trade for him, as this would only work if all parties are on board.

Honestly, I don't blame the team for trying to get something for Cousins.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I say if Im redskins Front office I try everything I can to get something for Cousins. that is what he is doing ..He wants to make the most money he can and I don't blame him ..same for team..it remains to be seen if they can pull it off but I would try.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I still think chances of a tag and trade coming together are slim. I’ll say 20% chance of it happening.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1188108]If I'm Kirk I simply state that I'm not signing the FT until well after FA starts so you miss out on most of the FA's you are going to want. He wants to be a FA, let him go.[/quote]

I have heard multiple people comment about KC signing the FT. I was under the impression that the FT binds the player to that team for a one year contract and extends the time to reach a LTD. If a LTD isn't reached there are then two options:
1. Play the year
2. "Retire" for the season

What am I not understanding?

Also assuming the Skins FT Cousins we know he is not going to do option 2, like Bell is threatening.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

If tagged he would sign in a heartbeat. By not signing he can’t be traded, possibly interested teams would have to move on with either finding a QB in free agency or the draft. And why wouldn’t you lock yourself into $34M vs 0?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188130]If tagged he would sign in a heartbeat. By not signing he can’t be traded, possibly interested teams would have to move on with either finding a QB in free agency or the draft. And why wouldn’t you lock yourself into $34M vs 0?[/quote]

Okay I go back to the Skins signing of Josh Norman. Wasn't he tagged and then they dropped the tag after the free agent period or something like that?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Giantone;1188131]Okay I go back to the Skins signing of Josh Norman. Wasn't he tagged and then they dropped the tag after the free agent period or something like that?[/quote]

No, because the Skins signed him very soon after Carolina rescinded the tag.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188131]Okay I go back to the Skins signing of Josh Norman. Wasn't he tagged and then they dropped the tag after the free agent period or something like that?[/QUOTE]Norman had not signed his tag. Until it is signed the team can rescind it. Norman was headed back to sign his when the Panthers pulled the FT offer.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Ok, wasn't sure how that went down.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188130]If tagged he would sign in a heartbeat. By not signing he can’t be traded, possibly interested teams would have to move on with either finding a QB in free agency or the draft. And why wouldn’t you lock yourself into $34M vs 0?[/quote]

Yes, Kirk should sign the tag immediately. And then the "fun" begins.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188130]If tagged he would sign in a heartbeat. By not signing he can’t be traded, possibly interested teams would have to move on with either finding a QB in free agency or the draft. And why wouldn’t you lock yourself into $34M vs 0?[/quote]

By not signing, he becomes a free agent when the new league year starts on March 14th. Kirk holds all cards here.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I don't think so as soon as they apply the FT assuming it is exclusive they have a hard deadline in July to which they can work out an extension. Basically he would be off the market and it doesn't matter the FT is binding so he either agrees to it or sits out he doesn't have to sign anything and there is nothing he can do about it.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;1188138]By not signing, he becomes a free agent when the new league year starts on March 14th. Kirk holds all cards here.[/QUOTE]


pretty sure it doesn’t work like that

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;1188138]By not signing, he becomes a free agent when the new league year starts on March 14th. Kirk holds all cards here.[/QUOTE]No. If the redskins apply the tag he would not be a free agent. The Skins would have his rights for the year, but until he signs it the skins could rescind it. Once he signs it becomes an exclusive tag as Mattys earlier link showed, so that means he can only negotiate with the Redskins. The transition tag obviously has a different path.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

The Redskins could apply the tag and see what Cousins does, but that money counts against the salary cap, and I don't believe the Redskins would want to purposely handicap themselves. If there was no deal with Alex Smith, then I felt it was a strong possibility, but now that a deal has been agreed upon in principle, I don't even think there's a 20% chance of a tag and trade happening. However, I've been wrong once or twice in my life, so we'll see what happens. Personally, I'm just fine letting him walk and getting a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1188141]pretty sure it doesn’t work like that[/quote]

You're right it does not. That's an embarrassingly poor display of knowledge by sandtrap. Franchise tag means you can't negotiate with anybody except the team that applies it, unless that team gives you permission to talk with somebody.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

God I CANT WAIT for this to be over

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188149]You're right it does not. That's an embarrassingly poor display of knowledge by sandtrap. [B][I] Franchise tag means you can't negotiate with anybody except the team that applies it[/I][/B], unless that team gives you permission to talk with somebody.[/quote]

[U]Exclusive[/U] Franchise Tag means that. Non-Exclusive grants the right to negotiate with other teams. The Redskins cannot apply the non-exclusive this year.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Well, let’s see how badly Snyder and Allen screw this up. Let’s rate this deal according to “Albert Haynesworths”. Like as of right now I think this deal is about 80% as bad as the Albert Haynesworth deal, so I rate it 0.8 Haynesworths. What do you guys think, And how good or bad do you think the cousins situation will end up for the redskins?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=metalskins;1188152][U]Exclusive[/U] Franchise Tag means that. Non-Exclusive grants the right to negotiate with other teams. The Redskins cannot apply the non-exclusive this year.[/quote]

Correct. I was speaking of the tag the Redskins could use on Cousins, not of the one they cannot.