Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Campbell is not the biggest problem. But he's a problem at the most important position on any team. If there was a problem at one of the special teams position, I wouldn't worry about it much because there would be simple things to do in order to help that player. But with qb, you need plays and no crucial mistakes. Campbell doesn't have any great plays that have won games and has had at least a couple of crucial mistakes.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Southpaw;599480]Does that mean that Tom Brady's mistakes and lack of playmaking in the Super Bowl against the Giants was entirely his fault, or do you think it had something to do with the Giants front four manhandling the Pats offensive line?

Basically, my point is the quarterback is the top brick of the pyramid that is the 53 man roster, and you don't build a pyramid by trying to place the top brick, first.[/quote]

Let's not forget that despite being punished and harassed all game long by the Giants D, Brady marched his team 80 yards down the field to take a late lead and then handed the game to his Defense. They were the victims of the most ridiculous, circus plays of all time. Brady was sacked 5 times in that game. I don't remember Campbell leading his team on such a drive when he was sacked 7 times against the Steelers last year. Yes, Brady looked average against Giants in that game, but he was still good enough to carry his team to a late lead. Same with Brees this past weekend. The Bills were in his grill all game, but he (and his coaching staff) righted the ship and still scored 27... which will probably be a season low for them;)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;599485]Campbell is not the biggest problem. But he's a problem at the most important position on any team. If there was a problem at one of the special teams position, I wouldn't worry about it much because there would be simple things to do in order to help that player. But with qb, you need plays and no crucial mistakes. Campbell doesn't have any great plays that have won games and has had at least a couple of crucial mistakes.[/quote]

Uh-oh. Here comes someone with a reference to the Saints game last year. You asked for it;)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Southpaw;599480]Does that mean that Tom Brady's mistakes and lack of playmaking in the Super Bowl against the Giants was entirely his fault, or do you think it had something to do with the Giants front four manhandling the Pats offensive line?

Basically, my point is the quarterback is the top brick of the pyramid that is the 53 man roster, and you don't build a pyramid by trying to place the top brick, first.[/quote]

Different game and different season. I believe if you put the Tom Brady of that game in with the redskins in the Giants and Lions games of this season, I think that the redskins would have won the giants game and would have whipped up on the Lions.

Just look at Brady in the first game of this season, he made the big plays to win that game when he had the chance. Campbell has had his chances, too.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Southpaw;599469][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I consider Hasselbeck average because he has had five "good" seasons out of eleven, and most of his career was spent on a team with a dominant run game and above average defense. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And my point for adding Brees and Rodgers was to illustrate the fact that even they could not overcome deficiencies on their respective teams. Right now, I think the only quarterback that you could add to a below average team and possibly make the playoffs is Peyton Manning.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

I'd say 6 years and he was a back-up for the first 2 and injured the last couple. And he still kicked our asses when we knocked his dominant running back out of the game in the first quarter of the playoffs a few years back. BTW, I didn't say he was hall of fame material, but he's a legitimate, unquestioned and un-threatened starter. My point in previous posts with Campbell is that I don't think any other team would take him to be their guaranteed starter if we were to let him walk at the end of the season. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;599479] 2 losses that easily could have been won by campbell if he makes the plays - this is the difference between 10-6 and 8-8 of last season.[/quote]

Surely you're kidding. I hope you're also prepared to GIVE credit to the QB for every game in which the Redskins won and at least one first down was gained due to a completed pass.

The story of this team the past 5 years is measured in made or missed field goals, one TD or less. You start trotting out examples of games that "coulda shoulda" been won, you need to put all the games that WERE won up as well.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;598742]Every thread someone is calling for campbell to be benched but his numbers are great.
1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers
2. 9th in passing yards: More that Rodgers, Ryan, Palmer, E. Manning, & Cutler
3. 5th in the Comp. Percent. 67.6%: Higher than everyone in the league except P. Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Chad Penn.

So what else does he have to do to be considered a good QB. The Skins have a good QB, just bad playcalling, no running game, and no O-line. Get off campbell's back. He is doing more with less better than anyone in the NFL. Check the stats the STATS don't lie![/quote]


Still don't get where you say everyone is calling for JC to be benched. Only one or two guys in the Skins Locker room has called for that. The obvious problem isn't Campbell. it is Zorn's playcalling and to be honest his system. I said I thought he didn't look as poised as Stafford did, nor does he seem to have the leadership, but I never called for his head on a platter or much less to be benched. Everyone on the team sucked rocks, with the exception of Moss.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

With the way things are going, Campbell can throw 47 TDs and the team would only average 21 points a game.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dgack;599507]Surely you're kidding. I hope you're also prepared to GIVE credit to the QB for every game in which the Redskins won and at least one first down was gained due to a completed pass.

The story of this team the past 5 years is measured in made or missed field goals, one TD or less. You start trotting out examples of games that "coulda shoulda" been won, you need to put all the games that WERE won up as well.[/quote]

Of course, I would be giving credit- IF the redskins had a winning record. But they are at 1-2. It wouldn't make sense to look at the wins from the previous seasons and giving out credit, when they are losing and not performing well now.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;598755]Hmm...

-Thomas drops a TD pass
-Sellers drops a TD pass
-Zorn calls a HB option play
-We try to run the ball in at the goal line on 2 separate occasions
-Moss fumbles in the redzone

6 opps we came up with that pan out that weren't JC's fault. I may be missing some. But those are the ones I can think of right off hand.

*Not enough passes down the field for bombs. Why because he doesn't have time. By the end of the season if the line can start to hold up many will be eating crow. We expect Manning & Brady. But at times this year they have had bad games. Brady just got out of his funk injured or not. We dont have the cohesiveness and discipline as a offense. So any QB would struggle here.


Do you see a pattern here?[/quote]

I just had to quote my own quote because some people obviously dont read...lol

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;599548]Of course, I would be giving credit- IF the redskins had a winning record. But they are at 1-2. It wouldn't make sense to look at the wins from the previous seasons and giving out credit, when they are losing and not performing well now.[/quote]

So just so I'm clear:

* Campbell is to blame for at least a few of the games we lost last year.
* If we had a winning record *this* year, he'd get some back credit for the wins *last* year but since we lost one game more than we've won this season, he does not.

Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dgack;599577]So just so I'm clear:

* Campbell is to blame for at least a few of the games we lost last year.
* If we had a winning record *this* year, he'd get some back credit for the wins *last* year but since we lost one game more than we've won this season, he does not.

Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.[/quote]

Never said anything about last year's performance in that post. Just pointed out how important the 2 games that the redskins lost this season.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=over the mountain;599453]ive been thinking alot lately about the best approach to building a winning franchise after reading some of the lions fans forums. they seem pretty split on the two major approaches:

1) try to get lucky and get yourself a franchise qb in the draft.

or

2) build thru the trenches and draft to have a solid deep team in which you only need a decent/good qb

i am not the right person nor knowledgeable enough to put together a thread worth discussing but i do find it real interesting. either way has pros - cons. a great qb makes his line, recievers and coaches look better and it only takes perfect draft pick. but (imo) its easier to evaluate O line and D players in the draft than it is to land that special qb who only comes around once every few years. i would argue matt ryan was the one last year with flacco looking great under cameron.

lol you see im already all over the place in my thoughts.

does anyone know any real informative, history based intensive sports article regarding the best philosophy to build a winning franchise? has bill parcells written a book yet lol?

i should probably just google.

go skins!![/quote]You raise good points, but it you end up doing 1) and not 2) or 2) and not 1), the result isn't going to get you where you want to go.

The Skins made a nice value pick in Campbell at No. 25 in the 2005 draft. At that point, QBs are about a 50% proposition, and Campbell has certainly exceeded that expectation. But, through all the work I've done, they lagged along in the No. 2 department, making their investment in No. 1 kind of a waste of time.

They, of course, can go develop quality players around him whenever they want to [I]including the remainder of this season[/I]. But our player acquisition abilities, while certainly not the worst, have been sub-optimal. And we kind of brought Campbell along slowly with the expectation that he could surprise a lot of people in 2008. But the execution of the plan was poor, and plan B was to freak out and try to go for the quick fix once again. As it normally is.

When we drafted Jason Campbell, we took a potential franchise QB, and I thought (outside of the way we shifted the offenses on him) we handled his development pretty well, but at this point, I'm seriously questioning whether the Redskins are ever going to get the payoff. Right now, Campbell is stranded on a team with a highly paid but sometimes average, usually crappy defense, no running game, and receivers that he needs to make better, not the other way around. It's just a horrible situation.

Maybe there's something to the fact that this team must be bad before things get better.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;599496]Different game and different season. I believe if you put the Tom Brady of that game in with the redskins in the Giants and Lions games of this season, I think that the redskins would have won the giants game and would have whipped up on the Lions.

Just look at Brady in the first game of this season, he made the big plays to win that game when he had the chance. Campbell has had his chances, too.[/quote]Not *this years* Tom Brady. We'd probably be 0-3.

Pre-injury Brady, yes, I think we beat the Lions to go to 2-1.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=jsarno;599476]I think we are about to get to the point where we are going to agree to disagree...but saying I am mistaken makes me scratch my head, so please inform me how exactly Campbell has been proficient in the redzone? What have I missed?

There are certain stats that don't lie like fumbles...you can blame no one but yourself with fumbles. Of course you could try to blame the line, but bottom line is when you fumble, it's on you, you need to protect the ball!

So let me get this straight, you are saying the reason we beat the Rams is cause Campbell had a good completion percentage?[/quote]We beat the Rams because the defense stayed competitive the entire second half (allowing no points, which should be expected against the Rams), and Jason's efficiency (despite poor OL play post-Thomas) served to set up Suisham three times.

Campbell's proficiency in the red zone is mostly based around his play between the 10 and the 20. Inside the ten, he's really not even been given a "read" play all year. There was one against the Giants, and we just completely didn't block the blitz.

Campbell has gotten Zorn to a second season, so he might as well dance with him, IMO.