Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;622972]why hold back? if your going to attack, go full bore. from now, when i need a political opinion, ill ask you first. you seem to have all the answers[/quote]

No it's saden who thinks he has all the answers.

Re: Obama Care
 

thank god i dont have the answers. or otherwise i might feel compelled to " attack" someone

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;622944]Explain to me how adding approximately 10% of new customers to an already overburdened and flawed system without a plan to expand the ability to provide services will lower costs? Yes, for those w/out coverage, better coverage is a given. For those with coverage, even a poor plan, explain to me how increasing the burden on providers will provide these individuals with "better coverage" either in a qualitative or quantitative way.

Another side effect I see from this plan is that more bad doctors will get into and stay in practice. They are in high demand now - particularly the GP's - and the only way that our current system will be able to handle the new customers will be to lower the standards for the profession. Get ready for an inflx of MD's from the Aruba School of Medicine.

Regardless - don't confuse this bill with healthcare reform. It is merely healthcare inflation.[/quote]

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

Re: Obama Care
 

On a more elemental level...will it cost more? I would think...yes?
How will that be paid for?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;622978]For the 260 Million insured, it is contradictory. For the portion of the 47 Million of young healthy adults who have no health issues (estimates run between 15-25 Million), it is a contradiction.

As I have argued before, by creating a governmental insurer of last resort, you will be creating an entity that will either a) be so cost inefficent as to be a huge money pit; or b) a system that will be just competitve enough to drive out similar private systems and make the more comprehensive plans affordable to only the wealthy.[/quote]

Why is it contradictory? Unless you know something I don't it seems to me that you can keep whatever you have.

[quote]
[LIST][*]Insurance exchange | The bill would set up a new national health insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals who do not have employer-sponsored insurance would be able to shop for plans. The exchange would also be open to small businesses, and more would be able to join each year. Companies with 25 or fewer employees would be able to join in 2013, companies with 50 or fewer employees could join in 2014, and companies with fewer than 100 employees could join by 2015.[*]Public insurance option | The health insurance exchange would include a government-run public plan. Federal officials would negotiate payment rates with doctors and hospitals that accept the plan.[*]Employer mandate | Employers with annual payrolls greater than $500,000 would be required to either provide health insurance for their employees, or contribute 8 percent of their payroll to a federal fund to help subsidize employees who purchase coverage through the exchange. Employers with payrolls less than $500,000 would be exempt from the mandate.[*]Individual mandate | Individuals will be required to purchase health insurance, or pay a penalty fee. Some people would be eligible to apply for a hardship waiver.[/LIST] [/quote]

Re: Obama Care
 

By increasing demand for Physicians but not increasing their supply, the cost to use them will increase. As costs increase, people will be forced to buy less coverage. Some will make sacrifices to maintain the same coverage, others will not be able to. Several weeks ago, you posted a link demonstrating the upcoming Dr. shortages. Do you expect fewer doctors to provide more services for less money?

Sure, you can keep what you have, but, as costs increase due to increased demand, fewer and fewer people will be able to keep what they have. Do you expect costs to stay the same even though you are increasing demand by at least 10-15% without increasing the supply? Do you believe premiums for private insurance will not increase? If not, why not? If so, do you believe that rising costs won't force many families into poorer coverage?

As for the public option, 1) If it offers competitive pricing to private insurers, it will eventually drive out these companies as it has an innate market advantage of not [I]needing[/I] to be profitable. It can offer the same services, lose money and still draw from the public teat; 2) If it is not competitive and truly an insurer of last resort with a bare bones package, only those who are absolutely uninsurable, and thus the most costly to insure, will purchase it and, as they inevitably cost more to insure - and, of course, the horror stories of insufficient coverage will continue.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623055]The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.[/quote]

Okay. The various grants may bring some relief to the supply problem. I guess I don't think it will be enough. We simply don't produce enough doctors. As for France, don't know if they have the same med mal issues we have or how they regulate their doctors. I could be wrong but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

Hopefully my gloom and doom is incorrect. I just think we wasted a real opportunity for reform that will, in a barely adequate manner, solve only the most basic problem - everyone has insurance (However,people are still going to be underinsured).

As far as I am concerned it's a done deal. I am beginning to look at the financial planning needed and sacrifices that will be necessary when, 5 years from now, my premiums will be doubled. If I am wrong - great! We will have a windfall. Not counting on it though.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623055]The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.[/quote]

So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;623345]So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?[/quote]


You could do worse, could be getting it from someone that has high school training. We're all going to get treated by Community College graduates...we're doomed :eek:

I don't know why I bother :doh:

Re: Obama Care
 

[url=http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/]Mass. healthcare reform is failing us - The Boston Globe[/url] [url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125046457087135327.html]Tennessee Experiment's High Cost Fuels Health-Care Debate - WSJ.com[/url] . If our Senate signs the HC Bill , I hope they learn from past mistakes like these .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;623085]By increasing demand for Physicians but not increasing their supply, the cost to use them will increase. As costs increase, people will be forced to buy less coverage. Some will make sacrifices to maintain the same coverage, others will not be able to. Several weeks ago, you posted a link demonstrating the upcoming Dr. shortages. Do you expect fewer doctors to provide more services for less money?

Sure, you can keep what you have, but, as costs increase due to increased demand, fewer and fewer people will be able to keep what they have. Do you expect costs to stay the same even though you are increasing demand by at least 10-15% without increasing the supply? Do you believe premiums for private insurance will not increase? If not, why not? If so, do you believe that rising costs won't force many families into poorer coverage?

As for the public option, 1) If it offers competitive pricing to private insurers, it will eventually drive out these companies as it has an innate market advantage of not [I]needing[/I] to be profitable. It can offer the same services, lose money and still draw from the public teat; 2) If it is not competitive and truly an insurer of last resort with a bare bones package, only those who are absolutely uninsurable, and thus the most costly to insure, will purchase it and, as they inevitably cost more to insure - and, of course, the horror stories of insufficient coverage will continue.[/quote]

Nice post. Good points. I'll be interested to see if/how Saden responds.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;623085]By increasing demand for Physicians but not increasing their supply, the cost to use them will increase. As costs increase, people will be forced to buy less coverage. Some will make sacrifices to maintain the same coverage, others will not be able to. Several weeks ago, you posted a link demonstrating the upcoming Dr. shortages. Do you expect fewer doctors to provide more services for less money?

Sure, you can keep what you have, but, as costs increase due to increased demand, fewer and fewer people will be able to keep what they have. Do you expect costs to stay the same even though you are increasing demand by at least 10-15% without increasing the supply? Do you believe premiums for private insurance will not increase? If not, why not? If so, do you believe that rising costs won't force many families into poorer coverage?

As for the public option, 1) If it offers competitive pricing to private insurers, it will eventually drive out these companies as it has an innate market advantage of not [I]needing[/I] to be profitable. It can offer the same services, lose money and still draw from the public teat; 2) If it is not competitive and truly an insurer of last resort with a bare bones package, only those who are absolutely uninsurable, and thus the most costly to insure, will purchase it and, as they inevitably cost more to insure - and, of course, the horror stories of insufficient coverage will continue.[/quote]

The price will not go up because of the lack of physicians as the goverment will now regulate what they can and cannot charge. Its going to force the best and brightest to go into other fields where they can make more money and quality will go down.

Re: Obama Care
 

Now here's a guy with a clue. Why can't we get more dems and reps who think like this guy? Screw the extremists and elect more guys like Mark.

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/10/warner-obama-misplayed-health-care-debate/print/]Washington Times - EXCLUSIVE: Warner: Obama misplayed health care debate[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;623563]Now here's a guy with a clue. Why can't we get more dems and reps who think like this guy? Screw the extremists and elect more guys like Mark.

[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/10/warner-obama-misplayed-health-care-debate/print/"]Washington Times - EXCLUSIVE: Warner: Obama misplayed health care debate[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for sharing. I think Mark Warner is going to be a really good senator and probably a good presidential candidate at some point down the road. Not to come off as partisan here, but the Dems do have a coalition who are more fiscally conservative when it comes to addressing the deficit and are capable of working across party party lines. The health care debate has really polarized Washington right now and both sides seem to be at a stalemate.

Senator Warner raises a few good points in this article, but I think more than anything he highlights the challenges of selling something as huge and complex as health care reform and connecting that with the nation's current deficit woes.

I tend to agree with the president's current approach, though not entirely, in the sense that it's more practical to sell the need for insurance coverage, which is more tangible, than to focus on the strain on the financial system, which the everyday Joe has a difficult time relating to.

But if you go back to the president's recent speech before Congress and even before that he has talked about, at length, the very issues Warner states here. We absolutely must get the deficit under control.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;623575]Thanks for sharing. I think Mark Warner is going to be a really good senator and probably a good presidential candidate at some point down the road. Not to come off as partisan here, but the Dems do have a coalition who are more fiscally conservative when it comes to addressing the deficit and are capable of working across party party lines. The health care debate has really polarized Washington right now and both sides seem to be at a stalemate.

Senator Warner raises a few good points in this article, but I think more than anything he highlights the challenges of selling something as huge and complex as health care reform and connecting that with the nation's current deficit woes.

I tend to agree with the president's current approach, though not entirely, in the sense that it's more practical to sell the need for insurance coverage, which is more tangible, than to focus on the strain on the financial system, which the everyday Joe has a difficult time relating to.

But if you go back to the president's recent speech before Congress and even before that he has talked about, at length, the very issues Warner states here. We absolutely must get the deficit under control.[/quote]

I didn't mind Warner. You had best forget that Presidential run though. The guy is about as charismatic as stale bread.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;623662]I didn't mind Warner. You had best forget that Presidential run though. The guy is about as charismatic as stale bread.[/quote]

You're right about that. He's plenty smart though.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;623085]By increasing demand for Physicians but not increasing their supply, the cost to use them will increase. As costs increase, people will be forced to buy less coverage. Some will make sacrifices to maintain the same coverage, others will not be able to. Several weeks ago, you posted a link demonstrating the upcoming Dr. shortages. Do you expect fewer doctors to provide more services for less money?

Sure, you can keep what you have, but, as costs increase due to increased demand, fewer and fewer people will be able to keep what they have. Do you expect costs to stay the same even though you are increasing demand by at least 10-15% without increasing the supply? Do you believe premiums for private insurance will not increase? If not, why not? If so, do you believe that rising costs won't force many families into poorer coverage?

As for the public option, 1) If it offers competitive pricing to private insurers, it will eventually drive out these companies as it has an innate market advantage of not [I]needing[/I] to be profitable. It can offer the same services, lose money and still draw from the public teat; 2) If it is not competitive and truly an insurer of last resort with a bare bones package, only those who are absolutely uninsurable, and thus the most costly to insure, will purchase it and, as they inevitably cost more to insure - and, of course, the horror stories of insufficient coverage will continue.[/quote]

Your assumption is that we're already at 100% capacity utilization of our health-care system and those 47 million new patients will utilize the capacity all at once. I don't believe this to be the case across the country. Furthermore you aught to be familiar with [URL="http://rules.house.gov/SpecialRules_details.aspx?NewsID=4498"]H. Res 903[/URL], which allocated 100 million dollar annual grant to organizations/institutions to develop medical schools in areas experiencing medical professionals shortage, was passed along with the Healthcare Bill (note that all your boys [URL="http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll882.xml"]voted against it[/URL]).

There's also the expectation on your part of perfection from this bill which I think is ludicrous. You also seem to completely ignore the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_demand"]law of demand[/URL]. Revamping the healthcare system is an incremental process and there's lots of good stuff in the bill and the kinks will get worked out. You can have a doom and gloom attitude but I don't think the substance of this bill warrants it.

I have no love for the insurance industry. Frankly they're going to reap what the sawed. They need to compete with the government and if they can't then their business model is dated. Honestly, I can not muster the emotion required to feel sorry for them or care for their wellbeing, kinda like how I don't give a shit what happens to a child molesters in prison.

p.s. Those of you that complain about the number of pages in the bill but can't be bothered to read it you're in no position to complain about it. Well, you can but you'd sound, like, kinda like, umm, you know, dumb.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;623345]So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?[/quote]

He still has to go through medical school numbnuts. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Angry;623685]He still has to go through medical school numbnuts. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.[/quote]

For god sake man...trying to destroy this country's healthcare system is hard enough as it is without you telling everybody our secret!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623687]For god sake man...trying to destroy this country's healthcare system is hard enough as it is without you telling everybody our secret![/quote]

I'm sorry, I will never do that again.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Angry;623685]He still has to go through medical school numbnuts. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.[/quote]
You have to wonder about a guy that goes around talking about another mans nuts.

Re: Obama Care
 

s. Those of you that complain about the number of pages in the bill but can't be bothered to read it you're in no position to complain about it. Well, you can but you'd sound, like, kinda like, umm, you know, dumb.
__________________
[url=http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/51610]CNSNews.com - Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them[/url]. Looks like congressman Conyers is dumb . It is his responsability to read these bills before casting a vote ?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;623779]You have to wonder about a guy that goes around talking about another mans nuts.[/quote] Thats why I choose a female Dr. ..... cough , cough ... LOL !

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623781]s. Those of you that complain about the number of pages in the bill but can't be bothered to read it you're in no position to complain about it. Well, you can but you'd sound, like, kinda like, umm, you know, dumb.
__________________
[URL="http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/51610"]CNSNews.com - Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them[/URL]. Looks like congressman Conyers is dumb . It is his responsability to read these bills before casting a vote ?[/quote]
So I guess your saying that all those congressmen who just voted for this bill are even bigger dumb asses. Have you read the bill?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;623787]So I guess your saying that all those congressmen who just voted for this bill are even bigger dumb asses. Have you read the bill?[/quote]
Have I read the bill ? No ... I do not have the time , I doubt most people would understand much of the bill , as very few have run a hospital, Ins.Co. , or had to pay for Ins./health care for their employees . I do hope that congress works towards imrpoving health care , I would rather have a few smaller bills signed into law over the next few years , that remove .. waste , fraud , quality ect.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623781]s. Those of you that complain about the number of pages in the bill but can't be bothered to read it you're in no position to complain about it. Well, you can but you'd sound, like, kinda like, umm, you know, dumb.
__________________
[URL="http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/51610"]CNSNews.com - Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them[/URL]. Looks like congressman Conyers is dumb . It is his responsability to read these bills before casting a vote ?[/quote]
Hey firstdown , the top part of the quote was what Saden posted , I replied with the link to the congressman .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623790]Hey firstdown , the top part of the quote was what Saden posted , I replied with the link to the congressman .[/quote]
Thats funny. I guess Saden has then read the bill because how can you support a bill you have not read?

Re: Obama Care
 

It is the responsibility of the critic to read the bill and the author to address critique.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;623793]Thats funny. I guess Saden has then read the bill because how can you support a bill you have not read?[/quote]
As far as the bill itself , I just see our congress/Fed. Gov't not being as having agood track record when it comes to accountability when running/funding big programs [url=http://works.bepress.com/barry_kozak/1/]Illinois State Pension Plans: Do Participants Have Standing to Demand a Minimum Funding Ratio?[/url] ... [url=http://www.rrstar.com/news/x194405103/Illinois-pension-debt-worst-in-nation]Illinois pension debt worst in nation - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star[/url]. I'm sure some , maybe even much of this is good , I would just rather see " baby steps " taken to improve HC/Ins .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623796]It is the responsibility of the critic to read the bill and the author to address critique.[/quote]
Good morning Saden . I like you hope for better HC. You don't think our members of the House and Senate should read the bill , but we the people should ? If as you say , if " we " do not read a bill , we have no right to complain ... thats crazy ... I doubt that 2 % of Americans have ever read any bills , so 98 % of all Americans cannot complain accord to Sadens Law ? We have the right to complain/protest if we so choose ... unless Democrats are in the white house ... [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918]Sedition Act of 1918 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans_1942]Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_massacre]Waco Siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623801]Good morning Saden . I like you hope for better HC. You don't think our members of the House and Senate should read the bill , but we the people should ? If as you say , if " we " do not read a bill , we have no right to complain ... thats crazy ... I doubt that 2 % of Americans have ever read any bills , so 98 % of all Americans cannot complain accord to Sadens Law ? We have the right to complain/protest if we so choose ... unless Democrats are in the white house ... [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918"]Sedition Act of 1918 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans_1942"]Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_massacre"]Waco Siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]

Truth be told, members of Congress rarely read bills in their entirety anyway. Often times they vote on bills for selfish reasons; pork, special projects, or ammendments they've added. But more often than not, they really don't read these bills. That's what staffers are for. The various committees through which the bills are moving are usually where the bills are crafted, read, and understood.

So I find it funny that Leader John Boehner stacks up a 2,000 page prop during a press conference claiming no one knows what's in the bill yet. Really? They pulled the same crap with the stimulus bill.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;623563]Now here's a guy with a clue. Why can't we get more dems and reps who think like this guy? Screw the extremists and elect more guys like Mark.

[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/10/warner-obama-misplayed-health-care-debate/print/"]Washington Times - EXCLUSIVE: Warner: Obama misplayed health care debate[/URL][/quote]

I don't have all the answer but I do know that Obama has been stressing the long term detrimental cost of our existing healthcare during the campaign and as president. I have no idea what Warner is talking about and my only guess is he's trying to float him name out there just so people still know he exists.

Here's the president's first weekly address dedicated to healthcare...I don't know how much more you can tress the cost aspect of the current system.

[yt]6j12NRuH4gM[/yt]

As astute as you are I'm really surprised that you've never noticed his constant dig at the skyrocketing costs of the current system.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623815]I don't have all the answer but I do know that Obama has been stressing the long term detrimental cost of our existing healthcare during the campaign and as president. I have no idea what Warner is talking about and my only guess he's trying to float him name out there just so people still know he exists.

Here's the president's first weekly address dedicated to healthcare...I don't know how much more you can tress the cost aspect of the current system.

[yt]6j12NRuH4gM[/yt][/quote]

I'm glad you posted this. Because I read Warner's comments again and was like, huh? Obama started out talking about costs during the campaign. Way back when. But whatevs.

I just think selling cost is a tougher sell than coverage.

Re: Obama Care
 

Lets just hope whatever gets passed < something will sooner than later > , that it is for the better of all Americans , as we are one nation .... have a nice Veterans Day to all .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623801]Good morning Saden . I like you hope for better HC. You don't think our members of the House and Senate should read the bill , but we the people should ? If as you say , if " we " do not read a bill , we have no right to complain ... thats crazy ... I doubt that 2 % of Americans have ever read any bills , so 98 % of all Americans cannot complain accord to Sadens Law ? We have the right to complain/protest if we so choose ... unless Democrats are in the white house ... [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918"]Sedition Act of 1918 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Americans_1942"]Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_massacre"]Waco Siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]

Good morning. It's not asking much, if you're going to criticize at least have your T corssed and I dotted. You simply cannot complain without having facts on your side and the best way to do that is to read the bill. I spent all day Saturday watching the house debate and sifted through the bill...it's pathetic but first hand info be best hand info.

As for members of congress it is as 12thMan said. They got their staff reading it and raising red flags for them. There is no problem with this process. There is a problem however if you proclaim something is in the bill and do not verify or whine about how many pages it is. Supreme Court Justices have their clerks, members of congress have their staff.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=12thMan;623816]I'm glad you posted this. Because I read Warner's comments again and was like, huh? Obama started out talking about costs during the campaign. Way back when. But whatevs.

I just think selling cost is a tougher sell than coverage.[/quote]

I was actually surprised by your initial response...he has been attacking the healthcare problem from all angles from the get go rather than just one angle. I swear, every time he talks about healthcare he mentions long term sustainability of the current system being problematic.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623821]I was actually surprised by your initial response...he has been attacking the healthcare problem from all angles from the get go rather than just one angle. I swear, every time he talks about healthcare he mentions long term sustainability of the current system being problematic.[/quote]

Yep, I totally mis-read Warner's remarks to the Washington Times, of all newspapers.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;623820]Good morning. It's not asking much, if you're going to criticize at least have your T corssed and I dotted. You simply cannot complain without having facts on your side and the best way to do that is to read the bill. I spent all day Saturday watching the house debate and sifted through the bill...it's pathetic but first hand info be best hand info.

As for members of congress it is as 12thMan said. They got their staff reading it and raising red flags for them. There is no problem with this process. There is a problem however if you proclaim something is in the bill and do not verify or whine about how many pages it is. Supreme Court Justices have their clerks, members of congress have their staff.[/quote]
I do not mean to complain , I'am just stating a concern for a bill that could < I stress could > , lower the quality for some < those who have paid their fair share in taxes/HC-Ins > . 2 could lead to higher debt < yes the Rep's have as bad a record as Dem's , maybe worse > . As I have stated many times , I hope congress passes a bill that will not lower care for the millions that have worked and paid taxes/Ins . for 30 -40 years . I'am not saying that the White House or Dem's in congress are wrong in this matter , the truth is our elected officials do not have a track record IMO for me to just trust the " bill " will benefit us all .... I hope that is does . Only time will tell .

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=budw38;623829]I do not mean to complain , I'am just stating a concern for a bill that could < I stress could > , lower the quality for some < those who have paid their fair share in taxes/HC-Ins > . 2 could lead to higher debt < yes the Rep's have as bad a record as Dem's , maybe worse > . As I have stated many times , I hope congress passes a bill that will not lower care for the millions that have worked and paid taxes/Ins . for 30 -40 years . I'am not saying that the White House or Dem's in congress are wrong in this matter , the truth is our elected officials do not have a track record IMO for me to just trust the " bill " will benefit us all .... I hope that is does . Only time will tell .[/quote]

This bill is very flawed, there's no doubt that. And I imagine once it comes out of conference the public option will be watered down a little more, but probably more budget friendly in terms of cost. I think Harry Reid is requesting two sets of scores from CBO and the Senate will more than likely move towards the one that has the more favorable score. That's just my speculation.

At this point, unfortunately, I think it's becoming more and more about winning, getting Obama a legislative victory, and less about health care. I think it's solid first step though. But they will have to address the cost containment portion again down the road I suspect, as well as the number of uninsured that will ultimately go into the exchange option.

Re: Obama Care
 

Here's a good article about how lawmakers are grappling with the rising cost of premiums and overall healthcare savings.

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