Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

I freaking knew George Preston Marshall would do something from the grave to sabotage this. Honestly the fact that Joe Gibbs became our coach back in the 80's most have been to fix some negative karmic imbalance caused by good old George Preston Marshall. Only good thing the guy ever did was allow Jack Kent Cooke a chance to buy part ownership back in 1961.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/1933-news-article-refutes-cherished-tale-that-redskins-were-named-to-honor-indian-coach/2014/05/28/19ad32e8-e698-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html]1933 news article refutes cherished tale that Redskins were named to honor Indian coach - The Washington Post[/url]

[QUOTE]The proof is in a July 6, 1933, edition of the Hartford Courant, which Witten unearthed after the sports Web site MMQB tipped him off about it.

The edition includes a short Associated Press dispatch quoting Marshall saying: “The fact that we have in our head coach, Lone Star Dietz, an Indian, together with several Indian players, has not, as may be suspected, inspired me to select the name Redskins.”

Instead, Marshall explains, he gave up “Braves” to avoid confusion with a Boston professional baseball team of the same name. [COLOR="DarkRed"][B]He apparently picked the Redskins name so he could keep the existing Native American logo.[/B]
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Honestly this whole controversy has pulled me both ways many times. And though I hate coming across articles like the one above theres others that make me feel.....less guilty about supporting the team keeping the name.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds]Redskins name change not as easy as it sounds - ESPN[/url]

[QUOTE]"I've talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it," says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. "'Redskins' is not an insult to our kids. 'Wagon burners' is an insult. 'Prairie n-----s' is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But 'Redskins' is an honorable name we wear with pride. … In fact, I'd like to see somebody come up here and try to change it."[/QUOTE]

If the above quote sounds familiar its the same one cited in BA's open letter to the senators demanding a name change.

With that said I kind of feel like the name change issue has gotten to the point where it deserves its own 2014 thread.

So anyone that wants to light that batch of fireworks with the 5 cm fuse have at you.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073202]Well if you are now a farmer tanned white guy you now have "red skin" and I know you are not offended.

On a serious note, I guess there is no real incentive to change the name for Dan Snyder until he tries to get a new stadium and starts asking for public money to help him build it. Then the Redskin name haters will come out of the wood work I'm sure.

I am really trying hard to find a way to make this offensive for me so I can understand. I am not an American Indian, I am a 45 year old white guy from Kentucky. Even if they called the team the Washington Honkys or the Washington Rednecks, I'm still just not getting offended. Maybe I just have thicker skin, I don't know. Someone needs to give me, a white guy, a name that will really offend me so I can understand. I'm conservative so maybe if you called me a liberal Democrat I might get it.[/quote]

Its only a matter of time before the name is changed.

You are correct about the new stadium Scowan. Like most things this will end up being about $ and when DS decides he needs a new stadium and wants public $ to build it (there is no chance he will shell out his own dough for a stadium) he will change the name. Of course he will spin it to make it sound like its not about $ and he will use "we fought the good fight t keep the name" language but make no mistake about it, the name change will be all about $.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

Hell hath no fury like a trending corporate hashtag on Twitter.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

I don't know why the people that are against the Redskins name are picking on one team, instead of calling for a sweeping change among all teams with Native American names. I know people feel that if they can get to the Redskins, it will be easier to deal with the other teams. But as a Redskins fan, I find it hard to think of our team name to be that offensive, when you have the the Cleveland Indians with their ridiculously racist logo/mascot.

I guess they are taking advantage of a team that has an owner who is not very popular. But I also feel that by targeted one team, they force the team and fans to go on the defensive.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

Good point SS

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073278]How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive[/quote]

I think of the team and potatoes. Mmmmm red skin potatoes.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073278]How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive[/quote]

I think if the team had a benign logo like the scripted R or something that didn't have Native imagery it would be a non issue but the name plus the logo plus the PC times we live in multiplied by the media hype equals a firestorm.

It's just a matter of time before they relent and change it. The 'name changers' will eventually get smart and realize that the way to the change is through the team and league sponsors, not appealing to the team or league itself. The Gov't involvement is a joke, they have no jurisdiction or influence on it, they're just pandering as politicians often do. I've said before, the only way the Gov't can influence a change is if the FCC deems 'Redskins' a racial slur and threatens to fine any network that uses it.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=punch it in;1073211]Well to play devils advocate the white man from Kentucky hasnt exactly endured the hardships that the native american has. Which is why you are not necessarily offended imo.
That being said it boils down to are native americans offended by the name. According to studies - they are not.[/quote]

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289][B]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships.[/B] If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]

I don't want to turn this into a social/history discussion. But Native Americans are one of many groups that have been disadvantaged over several generations and that's something that doesn't turn around overnight.

Here's a non minority comparison. Look at the southern US states that were heavily affected by the Civil War. Some of the poorest states in the country are in the South, which was heavily affected by the loss of people and economic resources during the war. Some of them bounced back, but most have not, yet the Civil War ended almost 150 years ago. Sure there has been other things affecting these states, but 5 years of warfare, loss of life, and breakdown of economic structure has a long term effect.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289][B]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement.[/B] By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]
Can opened, lol. I'll just share one example of the inequities that exist today based on things that happened generations ago.

I had a conversation a couple years back with a older (mid 60's) white gentleman who was telling me about the wind farms that he has on some family property he owns in Kansas that was passed down from multiple generations dating back to the early 1800's. On this land the government pays him nearly $15k monthly not to grow crops but to allow them to use the land for 'experimental energy sources'. He's banked millions over the years and his family is set for generations to come purely based on this subsidy. Great for him, I'm not mad at him!

Here's the thing, my ancestors were legally not allowed to own property in Kansas during that time period so regardless of my hard work, work ethic, etc. I would never have that same [I][U]opportunity[/U][/I] because of the history of this country. He didn't do anything but win the sperm lottery but he and his offspring are set for life.

Don't take this as a 'poor me' tale, I've done well for myself through my efforts and it turns my stomach to see anyone, regardless of what they look like, playing the blame game with one hand and extending the other hand for something other than a hand UP. I only share this because I've heard the 'let it go, it was so long ago, it doesn't matter' BS too many times and some people don't have the perspective to look at how laws and policies that existed well before their time have an institutional and systemic impact on today's society.

Lesson over, now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Hey, sounds like Keenan Robinson has had a few good weeks!

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11002023/new-orleans-saints-coach-sean-payton-says-safety-jairus-byrd-back-surgery-keep-training-camp]New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says safety Jairus Byrd's back surgery won't keep him out of training camp - ESPN[/url]

Maybe it is a good thing that our crappy [/sarcasm] FO didn't go after him. They say it is not a big deal, but it is a back issue. Not good IMO.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. [/quote]

lol theres a lot to disagree with here.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

I appreciate all of you that responded to my comments. Like I said its not a perfect world and not everyone has the same opportunities, It just seems like some can't or won't rise above their situations.

On a related sports note, how would like to be Donald Sterling........ you offend a group of people, your fellow owners, and the whole world, and then you sell your team for $2 billion. LMAO!!!

Maybe Dan Snyder should stick to his guns until the rest of the league gets pissed enough at him that they force him to sell the Redskins. CHA-CHING!!!

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Paintrain;1073288][B]I think if the team had a benign logo like the scripted R or something that didn't have Native imagery it would be a non issue [/B]but the name plus the logo plus the PC times we live in multiplied by the media hype equals a firestorm.

It's just a matter of time before they relent and change it. The 'name changers' will eventually get smart and realize that the way to the change is through the team and league sponsors, not appealing to the team or league itself. The Gov't involvement is a joke, they have no jurisdiction or influence on it, they're just pandering as politicians often do. I've said before, the only way the Gov't can influence a change is if the FCC deems 'Redskins' a racial slur and threatens to fine any network that uses it.[/quote]

How can the logo be considered offensive when it was created, blessed, and presented by the Native Americans? That would then bring up this point. Are these Non-Native Americans assuming that Native Americans are too stupid to know when they should and should not be offended? Because honestly, that is the biggest message that these people in the PC movement are sending to the Native American community. And if I were a part of the Native American movement, I would strongly voice that these people, telling me what I should and should not be offended by, insults my intelligence and offends me more than some name of a sports team.

This is the argument that the anti-Redskins name group throws to the other side. "So you're telling us that you know more about what the Native Americans should and should not be offended by?" It's the same question to those in the PC movement. The only group whose voice matters in all of this is the Native Americans themselves. And they have been polled and an overwhelming majority has said it is not offensive to them. Why can't people just accept that and move on? Other than having some losing seasons on the field, what injustice has the Washington Redskins really done to the community?

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[IMG]http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Rodriguez3.png[/IMG]

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1073278]How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive[/quote]This is exactly the way I've always thought of it.

It's also why I get pissed when I hear the argument "You wouldn't go onto a Reservation and call someone a Redskins to their face, would you?" Well, no, I wouldn't, because I honestly don't ever think of it as a term meaning anything other than a name for the football team from the city that my family has lived in & around for generations.
I also don't make a habit of calling tall people 'Giants', I don't refer to people of Scandinavian decent 'Vikings, I don't say I'm from a 'Fightin' Irish Catholic family, and I don't actually believe that Drew Brees is a 'Saint.'

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=over the mountain;1073305][IMG]http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Rodriguez3.png[/IMG][/quote]

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]

I have almost said this same thing before but figured it was best unsaid. The fact is, the reservations that have casinos on them are making hundreds of millions a year. Those Indians have only known Mercedes and million dollar homes since they have had those casinos.

If they were willing to give some of that money away, they could easily pull some of the others out of poverty. But when Ray Halbritter wont even spend a few bucks to get a starving Indian a big mac, he shouldnt be using other Indians as his ammunition. Not to mention, hes not even an Indian. He is something like 20% Indian, absolutely 0% Oneida Indian (Im 12-15% Cherokee but certainly do not feel I have the right to call myself an Indian, and he isnt much more than I am). But then again, if an Oneida Indian speaks out against him, they are kicked off the reservation.

[url=http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/10/race-baiting_oneida_nation_leader_has_problems_of_his_own.html]Blog: Race-Baiting Oneida Nation Leader Has Problems of His Own[/url]

Ray Halbritter treats Indians a helluva lot worse than most, if not all, Washington Redskins fans.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=skinsguy;1073303][B]How can the logo be considered offensive when it was created, blessed, and presented by the Native Americans? [/B]That would then bring up this point. Are these Non-Native Americans assuming that Native Americans are too stupid to know when they should and should not be offended? Because honestly, that is the biggest message that these people in the PC movement are sending to the Native American community. And if I were a part of the Native American movement, I would strongly voice that these people, telling me what I should and should not be offended by, insults my intelligence and offends me more than some name of a sports team.

This is the argument that the anti-Redskins name group throws to the other side. "So you're telling us that you know more about what the Native Americans should and should not be offended by?" It's the same question to those in the PC movement. The only group whose voice matters in all of this is the Native Americans themselves. And they have been polled and an overwhelming majority has said it is not offensive to them. Why can't people just accept that and move on? Other than having some losing seasons on the field, what injustice has the Washington Redskins really done to the community?[/quote]

That wasn't really the point I was making. I was referring to the point SS made about connecting 'Redskins' to Native Americans. I was saying that if the imagery didn't reflect an Indian, most non Redskins/football fans wouldn't think about it that deeply. For example, what mental image immediately comes with Packer, Steeler or Brown? Probably nothing because it's non-descript. If we just had an R on the side of the helmet, people wouldn't connect the dots as easily and wouldn't be able to layer levels of offended outrage.

You do make a great point however that this fight is being taken up primarily by non-Natives who are trying to make a name for themselves. There are some Native communities involved but as a whole they have bigger issues they are focusing on.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=skinsguy;1073309]I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.[/quote]

agreed in full

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Paintrain;1073312]That wasn't really the point I was making. I was referring to the point SS made about connecting 'Redskins' to Native Americans. I was saying that if the imagery didn't reflect an Indian, most non Redskins/football fans wouldn't think about it that deeply. For example, what mental image immediately comes with Packer, Steeler or Brown? Probably nothing because it's non-descript. If we just had an R on the side of the helmet, people wouldn't connect the dots as easily and wouldn't be able to layer levels of offended outrage.

You do make a great point however that this fight is being taken up primarily by non-Natives who are trying to make a name for themselves. There are some Native communities involved but as a whole they have bigger issues they are focusing on.[/quote]

Yeah, my position, all along is, if it truly is as horrible as this PC movement is making it out to be, then let the Native Americans, as a whole, decide that. They shouldn't need anybody else being their mouthpiece. I can't decide either way, because for one thing, I'm a white guy with probably no Native American blood in my veins. Also, I'm biased because I'm a big fan of this team called the Washington Redskins. Losing the name means losing its identity, IMHO. I know others could deal with it, and in time, I probably could as well, but I can't help to believe that the name is and has always been meant to honor Native Americans not to disparage them. But as I said, it's not for me to decide, it's up to the Native Americans.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=skinsguy;1073319]Yeah, my position, all along is, if it truly is as horrible as this PC movement is making it out to be, then let the Native Americans, as a whole, decide that. They shouldn't need anybody else being their mouthpiece. I can't decide either way, because for one thing, I'm a white guy with probably no Native American blood in my veins. Also, I'm biased because I'm a big fan of this team called the Washington Redskins. Losing the name means losing its identity, IMHO. I know others could deal with it, and in time, I probably could as well, but I can't help to believe that the name is and has always been meant to honor Native Americans not to disparage them. But as I said, it's not for me to decide, it's up to the Native Americans.[/quote]

I think the leading group in this movement is the Oneida Nation, who are Native Americans. It's been recently that the likes of Harry Reid and others have become involved.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1073320]I think the leading group in this movement is the Oneida Nation, who are Native Americans. It's been recently that the likes of Harry Reid have become involved and others have been involved.[/quote]

Yes, the Oneida Nation is involved, but you gotta remember they are involved because there's money to be had. The Oneida Nation is the richest Native American tribe in the country. I think they're the ones who own all or most of the casinos in several areas of the country. My question is, why were they not involved several, several years ago? I mean, if the term "Redskin" has always been meant to disparage Native Americans, then surely they, along with other tribes, would have stepped in decades ago and put an end to it.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

The Redskins just need to keep quiet and stop responding to all the noise. Apparently someone at Redskin Park told the fans to go the some Congressmen's Twitter account and say positive things about the name? Really? Why do they care about some Congressmen running off at the mouth? Then Bruce Allen is writing up some letter? Just shut up and ignore it.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

Year after year we continue to see dumbasses step up to the plate to see who can lose the most money all because they can't stop smoking weed.

[url=http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Daryl-Washington-Suspended-For-Year/41f47a60-0a71-44df-9e9d-87bd39b36aad]Daryl Washington Suspended For Year[/url]

Card's GM wasn't too please with this, but at least they save close to 6 million...lol




[B]
@Jason_OTC
Because Washington's suspension is drug related he will automatically forfeit all that bonus money I discussed earlier. #AZCardinals[/B]


[B]@Jason_OTC 2h
So he should end up losing just under $5.9 million due to the suspension which is a huge $ figure #azcardinals[/B]



Dude is going to lose 3mil in bonuses and 2.9 in base salary this year. Over 5 million because he's a dipshit. :doh:

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]
wow....


[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=p7QAu0m-0tw9bM&tbnid=-cdR3HAu9fEsxM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2FBaileyovermyer%2Finspirational-and-close-to-the-heart-quotes-3%2F&ei=suSIU5ClD46hyASS_IEo&bvm=bv.67720277,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNEkFjpGofKPoEOkG-4osTJIFfBOWQ&ust=1401566453106304"][IMG]http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c0/dc/3d/c0dc3de252a6b7860d11765434c74f40.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1073324]The Redskins just need to keep quiet and stop responding to all the noise. Apparently someone at Redskin Park told the fans to go the some Congressmen's Twitter account and say positive things about the name? Really? Why do they care about some Congressmen running off at the mouth? Then Bruce Allen is writing up some letter? Just shut up and ignore it.[/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/05/29/redskins-ask-fans-to-tweet-their-redskinspride-to-sen-reid-what-could-go-wrong/]Redskins ask fans to tweet their #RedskinsPride to Sen. Harry Reid. What could go wrong?[/url]

It predictably ended poorly for them.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1073326]Year after year we continue to see dumbasses step up to the plate to see who can lose the most money all because they can't stop smoking weed.

[url=http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Daryl-Washington-Suspended-For-Year/41f47a60-0a71-44df-9e9d-87bd39b36aad]Daryl Washington Suspended For Year[/url]

Card's GM wasn't too please with this, but at least they save close to 6 million...lol




[B]
@Jason_OTC
Because Washington's suspension is drug related he will automatically forfeit all that bonus money I discussed earlier. #AZCardinals[/B]


[B]@Jason_OTC 2h
So he should end up losing just under $5.9 million due to the suspension which is a huge $ figure #azcardinals[/B]



Dude is going to lose 3mil in bonuses and 2.9 in base salary this year. Over 5 million because he's a dipshit. :doh:[/quote]



Lay off the WEEDUH!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1073278]How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive[/QUOTE]


Its the emblem. Dallas vs Washington. Cowboys vs the Indians. I think its as obvious as people associating The Eagles with birds. However like Ive said before and someone else said, I think the goofy Cleveland Indian character is so offensive. The Redskins have always made me think of the natives in a very proud way.

[QUOTE=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/QUOTE]


Well unfortunately there are alot of native americans and blacks that are born on a reservation or in a hood because that is where our ancestors put their ancestors. Not exactly a level playing field to begin your climb on the ladder of success. You are greatly underestimating the past and discounting its shaping of the future here.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]

You are dangerously close to coming off as a jerk.

You are generalizing horribly and not understanding (or just totally ignoring) the concept of power dynamics.

Just because a small few want to point fingers and not pull their weight doesn't mean an entire community doesn't want to. And as far as I know, Native Americans have never stomped their feet and complained about their plight. They made the best of what was an entirely racist and ridiculous situation thanks to Indian Termination Policy back between the 40's-60's.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=scowan;1073289]I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.[/quote]

+1 Regardless of how this is taken, he is right. Aforementioned groups back the F up and quit being money grabbers. If it hasn't been a problem for the past 20 years, why now?

Ochocinco said it best, "Pfft, child please."

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[B][SIZE="4"]@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal[/SIZE][/B]


[url=http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/05/30/gordon-issued-speeding-ticket/9785915/]Gordon issued speeding ticket[/url]

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1073343][B][SIZE="4"]@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal[/SIZE][/B]


[url=http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/05/30/gordon-issued-speeding-ticket/9785915/]Gordon issued speeding ticket[/url]

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.[/quote]

Psh, if people like Pacman Jones and Mike Vick can't get kicked out of the league, nobody will. Especially not over weed possession. Josh Gordon can toke till he chokes, but at worst he'd be indefinitely suspended.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=skinsguy;1073309]I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not.[B] To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable[/B], and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.[/quote]

Honestly if we could keep the logo, uniform, etc I would be more then happy to see the team name changed to Warriors.

Ironically enough it might just be trying to deflect attention but I remember asking myself when the name thing first came out isn't Chief Wahoo more offensive? Which is kind of like saying "Sure I called you an [URL="http://youtu.be/rtFwVTwWdwY?t=1s"]albino[/URL] white man, I mean kracker, I mean European American, but that guy over there said that you guys have [URL="http://youtu.be/ZjO3GUsQ3yc?t=23s"]small roosters[/URL]."

[quote=donofriose;1073328][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/05/29/redskins-ask-fans-to-tweet-their-redskinspride-to-sen-reid-what-could-go-wrong/]Washington Based NFL Team Headquarted in Ashburn, Virginia with a stadium located in Landover, Maryland ask fans to tweet their #WashingtonBasedNFLTeamHeadquartedinAshburnVAwStadiumlocatedinLandoverMdPride to Sen. Harry Reid. What could go wrong? [IMG]http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/images/smilies/trollface.png[/IMG][/url]

It predictably ended poorly for them.[/quote]

Fixed your link description brah. Yur Welc0m3.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

it just seems like everyone that's super adamant about changing the name aren't actual native americans, but white liberals trying to get press/make a name/act like some white knight riding in.

the bullets name change happened because the owner wanted it to. DC had a high crime rate and a lot of gun-related homicides (and baltimore had always been near or at #1 in that stat too), and he didn't like that connotation with the team... for what i remember about it.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[quote=That Guy;1073352]it just seems like everyone that's super adamant about changing the name aren't actual native americans, but white liberals trying to get press/make a name/act like some white knight riding in.

the bullets name change happened because the owner wanted it to. DC had a high crime rate and a lot of gun-related homicides (and baltimore had always been near or at #1 in that stat too), and he didn't like that connotation with the team... for what i remember about it.[/quote]

^agreed.

Hypothetically, what in the world changes if the Redskins change their name. Do Native American's live in a better world, more accepting, with more advantages?

Do we change the way we see Native American's in the world, now that white liberals (no knock on liberals) have taken up their cause for them?

I mean- I just don't see the end game here. Calling a word offensive because it used to be a slur, just doesn't make sense to me. It's undergone amelioration. If we went through the lexicon and removed all the words that USED to be some sort of slur, we would have to re-write the dictionary.

At this point, it's a tired argument. I'm ready to just change the name and move on. I think this debate has been a slap in the face to the Native American's- who won't get their history back. It's like all the aid we give to these 3rd world countries. A little pat on the back, "hey guys, we care".

African nations don't won't our patronizing aid, they want us to invest into their economy and profit off their own success. I don't know... going on a bid of a tangent, but I just think this whole debate is nauseating. It's one thing if it were organized by a Native American constituency who found the word discriminatory.

I'm ready to change the name, and move on.

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I really hope they don't change the name. I'm about as liberal as they can come but even I have a line. Doesn't Harry Reid have better things to do than let the Redskins name keep him up at night?

F outta here.

Re: Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009140/josh-gordon-cleveland-browns-caught-speeding-passenger-had-marijuana]Josh Gordon of Cleveland Browns caught speeding while passenger had marijuana - ESPN[/url]

this guy must not have a brain. dumbass