Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

If JG & KC go, but RGIII stays after what he put on tape the last two years, no decent coach will come here. Regardless of your belief in RGIII's ability to revive his career, what the potential hires will see is two head coaches gone and the QB who played poorly under both - and made some damning public comments - still here.

If JG fails, all three go and we hit the reset button with SM calling the shots. My hope is that JG succeeds and improves from last year.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[url=http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/2015/09/14/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins/72253554/]Kirk Cousins, ill father face different challenges with faith[/url]

Everything about this kid is good. I really hope he is the answer for the future.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1120811][B]If JG & KC go, but RGIII stays [/B]after what he put on tape the last two years, no decent coach will come here. Regardless of your belief in RGIII's ability to revive his career, what the potential hires will see is two head coaches gone and the QB who played poorly under both - and made some damning public comments - still here.

If JG fails, all three go and we hit the reset button with SM calling the shots. My hope is that JG succeeds and improves from last year.[/quote]

THAT....ain't gonna happen

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Hog1;1120822]THAT....ain't gonna happen[/quote]

Honestly, if Snyder canned Scot and stuck with RGIII, I would be done with this team after 40+ years (and I like RGIII). Snyder is my age, which means he'll probably own the team for the rest of my life. But if that level of meddling torpedoes the current trajectory on Scot's watch (which, based on Sunday, seems pretty promising -- winning in the trenches is the key, and we've made real strides), I will be forced to conclude that the Redskins are doomed basically for the rest of my life. I really, really hope this doesn't happen.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1120811]If JG & KC go, but RGIII stays after what he put on tape the last two years, no decent coach will come here. Regardless of your belief in RGIII's ability to revive his career, what the potential hires will see is two head coaches gone and the QB who played poorly under both - and made some damning public comments - still here.

If JG fails, all three go and we hit the reset button with SM calling the shots. My hope is that JG succeeds and improves from last year.[/quote]First and foremost NFL HC jobs are rare. Very rare. It is the absolute top of the football coaching profession. I know its a popular mantra whenever the Redskins are looking for a coach is "that none want to coach here". But lets be real, there will be plenty of people seeking the job.

And who knows what potential coaches will see? I think potential head coaches are more savvy then you give them credit for if you think they'll see what happened here in such binary black and white terms. You yourself have stated that "there was plenty of blame to go around". Potential HCs could very well see a great opportunity. And a blue print to avoid the coaching mistakes that prevented the other coaches form winning.

Everyone's hope is that J becomes a better coach and Kirk becomes a starting caliber QB worth re-signing.

But, IF J and Kirk fail and J is fired as a consequence there are many scenrios that could follow and one scenario includes Griffin still being on the team with a new coaching staff.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1120824]Honestly, if Snyder canned Scot and stuck with RGIII,[/quote]Not sure which part of the discussion you jumped in on but we were discussing the hypotheticals if [I][B]Jay[/B][/I] got fired.

Personally, I can't see anyway Scott gets fired. But, J isn't Scott's guy. And if J fails this year, with "his" QB I can see how Scott would be ready to move in with "his" guy.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1120831]Not sure which part of the discussion you jumped in on but we were discussing the hypotheticals if [I][B]Jay[/B][/I] got fired.

Personally, I can't see anyway Scott gets fired. But, J isn't Scott's guy. And if J fails this year, with "his" QB I can see how Scott would be ready to move in with "his" guy.[/QUOTE]
Do you really believe that SM would keep Griffin if he lets Gruden go.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Jay Gruden has staked his job on the success or failure of Kirk Cousins. When a coach comes in and so obviously immediately wanted to wash his hands of a QB, he is making a statement. The statement was made and it will make him the hero or villain by season's end.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1120835]Do you really believe that SM would keep Griffin if he lets Gruden go.[/quote]IF J fails and is fired as a consequence of his own incompetence?

Yes, I absolutely can see Scott keeping Griffin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1120835]Do you really believe that SM would keep Griffin if he lets Gruden go.[/quote]

:offtopic:

Clearly, your question was unresponsive. This is a high school debate club and not a Redskins fan site, so stay on topic!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120838]IF J fails and is fired as a consequence of his own incompetence?

Yes, I absolutely can see Scott keeping Griffin.[/quote]

Scot isn't a fan though

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

SS, not a fan of Jay or Griffin or both?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote]
Here is what YOU said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run.
Here is my response:
Quote:
Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in 2013.
[/quote]

yeah, and where did i say he couldn't run? where did i say we didn't run read option in 2013? seriously. just stop your garbage arguing the argument crap.

after 2012 griffin and his dad went to shanahan and said we're not running this play and that play, he didn't want to run. so how is that untrue?

also i didn't bring up shanahan, i was responding to someone else, but obviously you weren't paying attention to that, since you were too busy trying to be petty again.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Why are you guys still talking about Griffin? He's done here. He's not going to be resigned. It's over for him here.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

It could be that Scott isn't a fan of the coach and QB, he might not be a fan of any QB on the roster. Most of the time when you bring in a new GM he wants to pick both of those positions himself. 2015 could be an evaluation season for everyone.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1120846]SS, not a fan of Jay or Griffin or both?[/quote]

Griffin. Maybe not Jay either, I' don't know

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1120846]SS, not a fan of Jay or Griffin or both?[/quote]

I would assume Griffin. From what I can tell, one of McC's strengths is evaluating players, and if you can't tell RG3 is not very good at this point you shouldn't be evaluating talent. I feel like McC is still evaluating Gruden too.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1120849]Why are you guys still talking about Griffin? He's done here. He's not going to be resigned. It's over for him here.[/quote]

agree, can we lock this thread?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120844]Scot isn't a fan though[/quote]I do appreciate 'inside' information from time to time. And no disrespect intended, I always take inside information with a huge grain of salt even if the person receiving and relaying the information to us is above the board they are still subject to hersey, telephone effect and misunderstanding that can happen with this type of information.

I have a lot of respect for Scott and I have a hard time believing that Scott would allow people to know how he feels about Griffin one way or another. I doubt Scott will ever wittingly be the source of a leak.

All I know are Scott's public comments about not giving up on Griffin:

[quote=Scott]...but I don’t think you ever give up on a young quarterback that … took you to the playoffs as a rookie. I really don’t think you do that. Because they’re so hard to find and he’s still young. Give him the benefit of the doubt, he’s been banged up. You can say, ‘Yeah, the grass is greener,’ but who can we go get? If all of a sudden he goes somewhere and starts lighting it up, you know? And Jay’s system, that’s a tough system the first year for to learn, you know? So, I’m very curious to see how his second year goes. Very curious.”[/quote]

And as it turns out Jay has done exactly what Scott said he didn't want to do: give up on Griffin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=That Guy;1120848]yeah, and where did i say he couldn't run? where did i say we didn't run read option in 2013? seriously. ][/quote]I didn't say you said that he couldn't run or we didn't run read option. I was pointed out some facts related to your statement.[quote=That Guy;1119983]shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one [B]the could run[/B] and [B]wanted to run[/B]. then he got hurt and threw a [B]fit about not wanting to run read-option[/B]..[/quote]

Now about the read-option you claim that you "know" Griffin didn't want to run read-option. Which is unproveable one way or another and ultimately irrelevant since [B][I][U]he did actually run read-option in 2013[/U][/I][/B]. It doesn't make sense to keep trumpeting "Griffin didn't want to run read option" when you know that he actually did in fact start running read-option as early as week 3. At minimum you must acknowledge that Griffin did in fact run read-option whether you think he wanted to or not.

[quote]after 2012 griffin and his dad went to shanahan and said we're not running this play and that play, he didn't want to run. so how is that untrue?[/quote]Awwhhh his daddy huh? Griffin's dad forced total control Mike S to stop running read-option? Even though read-option was actually called from week 3 on?

[quote]also i didn't bring up shanahan, i was responding to someone else, but obviously you weren't paying attention to that,[/quote]Lol, which post were you responding that mentioned Shanny? I must have missed it.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120863]I do appreciate 'inside' information from time to time. And no disrespect intended, I always take inside information with a huge grain of salt even if the person receiving and relaying the information to us is above the board they are still subject to hersey, telephone effect and misunderstanding that can happen with this type of information.

I have a lot of respect for Scott and I have a hard time believing that Scott would allow people to know how he feels about Griffin one way or another. I doubt Scott will ever wittingly be the source of a leak.

All I know are Scott's public comments about not giving up on Griffin:



And as it turns out Jay has done exactly what Scott said he didn't want to do: give up on Griffin.[/quote]

That was SM's comments when he first got the job. That was BEFORE ota's, minicamp, training camp and the pre season games. He looked at what he saw and agreed with Gruden to bench him for good. What else is there to discuss?

Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1120865]That was SM's comments when he first got the job. That was BEFORE ota's, minicamp, training camp and the pre season games. He looked at what he saw and agreed with Gruden to bench him for good. What else is there to discuss?[/QUOTE]


This. He had plenty of time to judge him up close. Obviously he didn't develop like they had hoped.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

The entire "Griffin's daddy said........" argument is so overblown. Griffin was running the read option well after those reports happen, and guess what, Griffin's dad doesn't coach or run the team.

And I can guarantee you if Gruden told Griffin that in order to start he needs to go back to some variation of that offense, he has to involve the pistol/read option, Griffin would say "Ok." And why do I say that? Because that's EXACTLY what he did in 2013.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120866]This. He had plenty of time to judge him up close. Obviously he didn't develop like they had hoped.[/quote]
[quote=skinsfan69;1120865]That was SM's comments when he first got the job. That was BEFORE ota's, minicamp, training camp and the pre season games. He looked at what he saw and agreed with Gruden to bench him for good. What else is there to discuss?[/quote]Or maybe Scott isn't going to intefere with a coach that wants to play 'their' guy? Maybe Scott isn't going to evaluate a HC with a QB that is forced on them?

And a few quick points of fact. During ota's, minicamp and training camp it was all positive rhetoric about Griffin. Even through the first pre-season game their was talk of progress. Then it went away in 8 pre-season drop backs against the #3 def with a 3rd string LT starting (no out of the league btw), a concussion and a mediocre preseason game (gameplanned for) against the Ravens.

Yeah, I don't think Scott goes from not wanting to give up on Griffin to wanting to give up on him that quickly and flimsily. That's just me.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Seriously, 30....why are you still talking griffin? It's over. This is the titanic, and your playing the violin.
No one is listening to you.
Your like the commercials during a game that was dvr'd.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

It's a Redskins message board and Griffin is a member of the team for now.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120864] At minimum you must acknowledge that Griffin did in fact run read-option whether you think he wanted to or not.

[/quote]

Yes, I distinctly remember RG3 actually keeping the ball on ROs a handful of times in 2013.

Debate over?

Time to talk 2015 and Kirk Cousins?

30 - if you were gruden and you had Kirk under center and no desean, how would you game plan for the rams?

I imagine running the ball regardless of result, but what else?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1120871]It's a Redskins message board and Griffin is a member of the team for now.[/quote]

Yes...but for weeks now it's been the same thing. People have a conversation and 30 tells them how they are wrong no matter how valid the point, then makes a loaded question to respond. Then he tells them they are unresponsive to his questions and then more loaded questions. And this is a cousins thread about his time starting. Instead clown shoes wants to talk about, at length, how he's correct about our injury prone, underwhelming 3rd string qb.
Shit just gets old.
So yes....Griffin is a part of the team. But, an inactive part as of sunday. So why don't we discuss the active players instead of the ones who aren't even dressing?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I had a friend who is a Denver fan. Saw him one night with a tebow jersey on. We got to talking a bit. I told him I thought Denver was a good team that had a ton of upside, but tebow would not be the answer for them. He did the same thing I read here. Told me I was wrong then asked questions with only one way to answer. I had no leverage to even speak let alone share or discuss. Haven't talked to him since because it was that fristrating. With all his stats and loaded remarks....it didn't matter. Not in the least.....and why is that? Because no matter what the stats or loaded questions were the fact still remained that tebow, as amazing an athlete as he is, just isn't an NFL calibre quarterback.
So this whole thread has turned into that exact conversation at the bar with a friend that just talks louder than you waving his hands for anyone within ear shot to hear his point. Even though, he's ultimately 100% incorrect, and doesn't even know it.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=over the mountain;1120872]30 - if you were gruden and you had Kirk under center and no desean, how would you game plan for the rams?

I imagine running the ball regardless of result, but what else?[/quote]Good question. Prolly gonna be a long answer.

But, you're right I would start with the run. The Rams run def is tough but not impossible and if the run game is gonna be our identity (like I believe it should and will be) we gotta run the ball.

However; I would like to see our base run game move to nickle personnel. Our TEs are receiving TEs and they have a ways to go before they're not a liablility. We gotta avoid failed edge runs or holding calls because we ask the TEs to block the POA or holding calls.

I don't want to see a lot base personnel runs. Spread to run.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1120871]It's a Redskins message board and Griffin is a member of the team for now.[/quote]

but this is such an exhasted topic and we are essentially talking about a 3rd string QB.

Should we next talk about Kendric Golston? Its pretty clear Golston isnt going to be starting at DE/DT, but wouldnt u at least give him a chance? His use doesnt conform to the scheme, but maybe there is a way if we gave him a look and coached him up...Well maybe if Jay loses his job Golston finally gets that opportunity.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1120869]Seriously, 30....why are you still talking griffin? It's over. This is the titanic, and your playing the violin.
No one is listening to you.
Your like the commercials during a game that was dvr'd.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1120869]Seriously, 30....why are you still talking griffin? It's over. This is the titanic, and your playing the violin.
No one is listening to you.
Your like the commercials during a game that was dvr'd.[/quote]

I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but this is the redskins we are talking about.

For all we know, Gruden could get fired and the next HC could inherit Griffin, who he ends up starting....stranger things than that have happened here....

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Chico23231;1120877]but this is such an exhasted topic and we are essentially talking about a 3rd string QB.

Should we next talk about Kendric Golston? Its pretty clear Golston isnt going to be starting at DE/DT, but wouldnt u at least give him a chance? His use doesnt conform to the scheme, but maybe there is a way if we gave him a look and coached him up...Well maybe if Jay loses his job Golston finally gets that opportunity.[/quote]

chico just won the thread. good game sir.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1120879]I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but this is the redskins we are talking about.

For all we know, Gruden could get fired and the next HC could inherit Griffin, who he ends up starting....stranger things than that have happened here....[/quote]

That's fair. And the conversation, I'm sure, would be revisited at that point. But talking about our inactive, 3rd string qb is like talking about not finishing up that one time I got an escort. It was fun when it was going on, but there's no...uhh...end.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

With Scot around, it's hard to imagine Griffin here another year. I think it's clear they're moving on.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120831]Not sure which part of the discussion you jumped in on but we were discussing the hypotheticals if [I][B]Jay[/B][/I] got fired.

Personally, I can't see anyway Scott gets fired. But, J isn't Scott's guy. And if J fails this year, with "his" QB I can see how Scott would be ready to move in with "his" guy.[/quote]

It seems clear that RGIII isn't high on Scot's list of starting QBs. If Snyder really thinks that RGIII is the guy to lead the team and keeps pushing (or demanding as folks seem to think is happening behind the scenes), I can imagine friction there. Let's be honest, there's been friction with everyone, save Gibbs, and the owner. I don't disagree that it's far more likely that Jay gets axed before Scot does, but our owner is capable of anything.

I tend to think something will happen with RGIII before the end of the season anyway.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Does anyone know the answer to Question 3?
<mic drop>

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Ask 30Gut......

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1120865]That was SM's comments when he first got the job. That was BEFORE ota's, minicamp, training camp and the preseason games. He looked at what he saw and agreed with Gruden to bench him for good. What else is there to discuss?[/quote]
And very similar to Gruden's when he first took the job. As SS has said, I think talent evaluators are shocked when they get here and actually watch Griffin up close. The sad thing for us that we didn't have real talent evaluators before we drafted him. I for one am not an evaluator, and I watched his tape and loved him. I think that's what DS and BA did in 2012 as well. Can we move on now.