Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

I bet the player that spoke to Albert Breer was RJF, that's why he was cut. RJF has ties with McC going back to their days in SF.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168239]

Oh Scott wanted to clearly sign Cousins too...thoughts?[/quote]

On this point, he was the football mind they hired. They should have trusted him. He had it nailed early on, and now we're paying for Snyder and Allen's failure to trust him.

They say they're turning over control - until they're confronted with something that doesn't make sense to them. Then they need to be convinced to sign off.

I'm not saying something we don't all believe: Allen should be fired for this. But the problem is no matter who Snyder hires, Snyder will still be resistant to trust his people on the biggest of decisions. He'll always need to be convinced, and that's the shame of it all for us.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

RJF was likely going to be cut for his cap space regardless

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

I disagree with you Schneed. Every team has their own culture and their own way of doing things. Whose to say McC wasn't calling players out because the coaches weren't, or the coaches were and weren't having the effect they should've had? When any FO personnel gets hired they go through lengthy ass interviews, sometimes the entire day for a position as important as GM. Surely when he came in they asked about his style in Seattle. And if his style was calling out players up there too and Allen knew about it and still agreed to hire him, then I'm putting it on Allen. Jay Gruden is a first time head coach, who obviously had his hands full his first year in the league, and if he didn't mind McC getting involved with the players I don't either. I don't care who handles what responsibilities as long as we are winning, and we were doing that.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

There were lots of issues at play here..So its safe to say that no one single things got Scott fired ..it seems to me that yea there was a power struggle between Scott and Bruce but that alone did not do it. It was everything combined .. Head coaches get fired all the time for stuff they had no control over..they are handed a horrible roster and when they don't win somebody has to get blamed..when did you ever see a owner fire himself?? Its the nature of this business..you get hired so you can be fired! Nothing new here at all..guess what somebody else is going to get fired that deserved to keep his job..

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168235]I definitely don't like the idea of the GM confronting players about on-field behavior - that is definitively 100% the Head Coach's realm and the GM needs to stay the fuck out. It is up to Gruden and his staff to manage the day to day emotions of the players.

Pick the players Scot. Let the coaches coach.

This to me is a very legitimate reason to fire him.[/quote]

I completely disagree.
Everyone knows Gruden is considered a players coach.
If the coaching staff does not address the issue and allows players to walk all over bad situations where clearly the player is wrong, I have no problem with GM, Team President or team owner to call a player out. Frankly when it comes from your boss's boss, it means a lot more.
It is one thing where a player is getting talked to for a bad act and is getting admonished.
It is a completely different and bad situation when a player gets coddled like RG3 did by Snyder.
Don't show favoritism AND DO NOT ALLOW players to get away with bad shit.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SirLK26;1168242]Its worked for Seattle, good enough for me. Why shouldn't the GM be able to handle issues with the players who [B]he[/B] decides to keep on his team?[/quote]

So much wrong with this, I'm going to scream. If you think that's why Seattle won then you're oversimplifying and assigning credit for things that weren't significant factors.

1) McC was not the GM, Jon Schneider was.

2) If their culture was see something say something, that means Carroll was OK with it. If the head coach signs off on that mindset, then yeah, there's no problem. But did McC clear this with Gruden? Did McC make sure that was the culture here, too? Obviously not. He overstepped his bounds.

3) To think that only one culture can win in the NFL is stupid. Belichik controls everything. With Gibbs and Beathard, they often battled over strategic direction and Cook broke ties. Player's coaches have won, and disciplinarians have won.

4) Seattle did not win because McC was talking to players. Seattle won primarily because they had Russell Wilson on a rookie contract, Schneider and McCloughan picked good players, and Pete Carroll had them motivated.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1168248]I completely disagree.
Everyone knows Gruden is considered a players coach.
If the coaching staff does not address the issue and allows players to walk all over bad situations where clearly the player is wrong, I have no problem with GM, Team President or team owner to call a player out. Frankly when it comes from your boss's boss, it means a lot more.
It is one thing where a player is getting talked to for a bad act and is getting admonished.
It is a completely different and bad situation when a player gets coddled like RG3 did by Snyder.
Don't show favoritism AND DO NOT ALLOW players to get away with bad shit.[/quote]

You're a moron. It undermines Gruden's authority. If you can't see the slippery slope that puts you on then you have no hope of ever leading a McDonald's let alone a significant leadership role in any organization.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1168240]I don't understand why people can't take off their I-hate-Bruce-Allen-no-matter-what blinders and see that this was an issue.[/QUOTE]



Because #FireBruceAllen

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=mooby;1168246]I disagree with you Schneed. Every team has their own culture and their own way of doing things. Whose to say McC wasn't calling players out because the coaches weren't, or the coaches were and weren't having the effect they should've had? When any FO personnel gets hired they go through lengthy ass interviews, sometimes the entire day for a position as important as GM. Surely when he came in they asked about his style in Seattle. And if his style was calling out players up there too and Allen knew about it and still agreed to hire him, then I'm putting it on Allen. Jay Gruden is a first time head coach, who obviously had his hands full his first year in the league, [B]and if he didn't mind McC getting involved with the players I don't either[/B]. I don't care who handles what responsibilities as long as we are winning, and we were doing that.[/quote]

Also a stupid thing to say. HE FUCKING DID MIND IT. Why do you think there was a problem??

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=MTK;1168251]Because #FireBruceAllen[/quote]

#Trackrecord

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168231]Not that McC wanted to pay Cousins and others didn't? didn't notice that?

How about instilling a culture? nothing there.[/quote]

I'm more disappointed by the tidbits on Cravens and Breeland. Paying Cousins when RG3 was still on the roster was certainly a debatable idea at the time

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168253]Also a stupid thing to say. HE FUCKING DID MIND IT. Why do you think there was a problem??[/quote]

Man, if you gonna say some wack shit like that, you need to back it up. Source please. Something that mentions him rather than "certain FO members had a problem with it." That could be anyone, from Allen to Gruden.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=MTK;1168251]Because #FireBruceAllen[/quote]

8 years here and non-RG3 rookie season miracle/two good McCloughan years what has he done?

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1168247]There were lots of issues at play here..So its safe to say that no one single things got Scott fired ..it seems to me that yea there was a power struggle between Scott and Bruce but that alone did not do it. It was everything combined .. Head coaches get fired all the time for stuff they had no control over..they are handed a horrible roster and when they don't win somebody has to get blamed..when did you ever see a owner fire himself?? Its the nature of this business..you get hired so you can be fired! Nothing new here at all..guess what somebody else is going to get fired that deserved to keep his job..[/quote]

This is level headed. Everything combined. McC and Allen just didn't mix.

Our culture was there was a division of responsibility, with McC reporting to Allen and Gruden reporting to Allen. McC overstepped that.

And there was an inability on Allen's part to trust McC on the most important of positions, QB. He didn't fully trust or empower the guy he hired. And now we're stuck in a shitty spot at QB that we'll have to pay big $ to escape from.

Blame goes all around.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

I'm in favor of clear roles with a team or organization. When people overstep it causes confusion and the overall message trying to sent from the top down is diluted. Too many chiefs is not a good thing.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168254]#Trackrecord[/quote]

We've had two back-to-back winning seasons. You can bitch all you want about his overall records, but NFL teams care about what anyone has done lately. I know is not all because of Bruce Allen, but I'm sorry this little argument is getting old.

Also the reason why I'm sick of all the drama that went down being dragged by media/fans. I know is the offseason and there is little to talk about (well they could talk football, but what the f*ck do I know), but the team hasn't played a snap yet and their recent record has been pretty good one.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=mooby;1168256]Man, if you gonna say some wack shit like that, you need to back it up. Source please. Something that mentions him rather than "certain FO members had a problem with it." That could be anyone, from Allen to Gruden.[/quote]

Mooby you're a better thinker than this.

Why would it be a problem for Allen if it wasn't a problem for Gruden, who reports in to Allen?

Do you think Allen just goes around looking for battles to fight? Why would he have a problem with this if Gruden was cool with it? You don't need to source this. If this was an issue for the front office, it's because the coach made it one. And if you can't understand that then you don't understand leadership.

If that's going to be done, it MUST be cleared with Gruden first.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168249]So much wrong with this, I'm going to scream. If you think that's why Seattle won then you're oversimplifying and assigning credit for things that weren't significant factors.

1) McC was not the GM, Jon Schneider was.

2) If their culture was see something say something, that means Carroll was OK with it. If the head coach signs off on that mindset, then yeah, there's no problem. But did McC clear this with Gruden? Did McC make sure that was the culture here, too? Obviously not. He overstepped his bounds.

3) To think that only one culture can win in the NFL is stupid. Belichik controls everything. With Gibbs and Beathard, they often battled over strategic direction and Cook broke ties. Player's coaches have won, and disciplinarians have won.

4) Seattle did not win because McC was talking to players. Seattle won primarily because they had Russell Wilson on a rookie contract, Schneider and McCloughan picked good players, and Pete Carroll had them motivated.[/quote]

Of course its not the whole reason they won, but it was a part of the whole winning culture

Wasn't saying McC was the GM there, obviously it was Schneider. The larger point you missed is that the GM of a very successful team is okay with non coaches handling player issues

Point two is a good one, but like someone said did Bruce not realize this is the way McC did things? Seems like something that would come out in the interviews, and something you would discuss with the head coach before hiring the GM

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=MTK;1168259]I'm in favor of clear roles with a team or organization. When people overstep it causes confusion and the overall message trying to sent from the top down is diluted. Too many chiefs is not a good thing.[/quote]

Exactly.

What is the difference between Allen failing to trust McC on the QB issue, and McC failing to trust Gruden on how to handle a pouty Beshaud Breeland?

There's no fucking difference. In each case, it's a failure to trust the person in position to play their respective roles.

It's overstepping, and it conveys a message to Gruden that I don't trust you to handle this appropriately. That's not how high functioning organizations work, not fortune 500 companies, not winning sports teams, not local little leagues. You play your role, and you trust others to do their job.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SirLK26;1168262]Of course its not the whole reason they won, but it was a part of the whole winning culture

Wasn't saying McC was the GM there, obviously it was Schneider. The larger point you missed is that the GM of a very successful team is okay with non coaches handling player issues

[B]Point two is a good one, but like someone said did Bruce not realize this is the way McC did things? Seems like something that would come out in the interviews, and something you would discuss with the head coach before hiring the GM[/B][/quote]

How do you know Allen didn't set that expectation? We don't know that he didn't.

I won't go so far as to credit him for it. But regardless, McC stepped into Gruden's world without clearing it with Gruden. Violation. Plain and simple.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1168255]I'm more disappointed by the tidbits on Cravens and Breeland. Paying Cousins when RG3 was still on the roster was certainly a debatable idea at the time[/quote]

I am also disappointed by this, moreso by Cravens than Breeland. We all knew Breeland was struggling last year so lashing out is expected. As long as someone gets on him about it and he fixes his mistakes its' no biggie. But Cravens not playing through a bruise isn't a good look.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168231]Not that McC wanted to pay Cousins and others didn't? didn't notice that?

How about instilling a culture? nothing there.[/quote]

Its a joke buddy, relax. Chill.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=mooby;1168265]I am also disappointed by this, moreso by Cravens than Breeland. We all knew Breeland was struggling last year so lashing out is expected. As long as someone gets on him about it and he fixes his mistakes its' no biggie. But Cravens not playing through a bruise isn't a good look.[/quote]

With Breeland, clearly a big part of the problem was Perry Fewell. We heard lots, especially from Keim, about how poor he was about communicating assignments. Not to dismiss Breeland's pouty bullshit as acceptable - but it should definitely be for Gruden to determine whether Breeland needs space to cool off, or whether he needs to be reprimanded. McC isn't close enough to understand the nuances of Fewell's actions and how they mixed with Breeland.

On Cravens, yeah. Yikes. You play through things like a bruise. We're supposed to be building a culture of toughness. It's disappointing to hear he didn't play.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168264]How do you know Allen didn't set that expectation? We don't know that he didn't.

I won't go so far as to credit him for it. But regardless, McC stepped into Gruden's world without clearing it with Gruden. Violation. Plain and simple.[/quote]

Fair enough, if roles weren't clearly defined and McC was overstepping his boundaries than yes it is a problem. But we weren't there and we have no idea how it went down. Maybe the coaches got on Breeland first but it didn't resolve anything, so McC felt the need to step in. He should've cleared it with Gruden first as Gruden is the main voice of the team. But if Gruden didn't have an issue with it neither do I. This is one of those questions that will likely never be resolved so I am content to let it go, as it doesn't make a difference anyways. McC is gone, we will either sink or swim.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1168255]I'm more disappointed by the tidbits on Cravens and Breeland. Paying Cousins when RG3 was still on the roster was certainly a debatable idea at the time[/quote]

Exactly the whole cousins part is hindsight.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168235]I definitely don't like the idea of the GM confronting players about on-field behavior - that is definitively 100% the Head Coach's realm and the GM needs to stay the fuck out. It is up to Gruden and his staff to manage the day to day emotions of the players.

Pick the players Scot. Let the coaches coach.

This to me is a very legitimate reason to fire him.[/quote]

I don't get the idea that Gruden is a HC that will step in someone's face and fix that. Somebody does have to be in that role, and IF Gruden and SM were on the same page that SM was to be the bad cop to Gruden's good cop, I think that is not an abnormal structure in the NFL. Again, that is only true if Gruden and SM were on the same page about those roles. If not then yes the Team President BA should intervene and and make sure everyone is on the same page about each role.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168264]How do you know Allen didn't set that expectation? We don't know that he didn't.

I won't go so far as to credit him for it. [B]But regardless, McC stepped into Gruden's world without clearing it with Gruden. Violation. Plain and simple[/B].[/quote]

Come on Schneed. This is pure speculation until someone credible with an inside source says it. As you always say, provide a link. I havent seen anywhere that the problem was between McC and Gruden, just McC and Allen as far as I know

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1168255]I'm more disappointed by the tidbits on Cravens and Breeland. Paying Cousins when RG3 was still on the roster was certainly a debatable idea at the time[/quote]

come to find out, it was the right thing to do. Being right counts...actually counts a lot when it comes to QBs.

Bruce and Dan have poor track records with the QB decisions

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168275]come to find out, it was the right thing to do. Being right counts...actually counts a lot when it comes to QBs.

Bruce and Dan have poor track records with the QB decisions[/quote]

But even in the article it reminds us that there is no way of knowing if SM's idea of paying him would have matched KC's idea. Per the article they ultimately did offer him something and KC still turned it down.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

SM didn't go into the damn huddle and call the guy out. He went into the locker room and wanted Breeland to come into his office. He's the GM of the team. I doubt he's doing this every week and stepping on the toes of the coaches. Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168275]come to find out, it was the right thing to do. Being right counts...actually counts a lot when it comes to QBs.

[B]Bruce and Dan have poor track records with the QB decisions[/quote]
[/B]

Particularly Snyder. The guy gets a hard on for someone at combine and pro day work outs. He wanted Mark Sanchez and wanted to give away the farm for Cutler. That says it all right there.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168250][B]You're a moron[/B]. It undermines Gruden's authority. If you can't see the slippery slope that puts you on then you have no hope of ever leading a McDonald's let alone a significant leadership role in any organization.[/quote]

There you go again. Always acting like a keyboard warrior when someone doesn't agree with you.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1168280]There you go again. Always acting like a keyboard warrior when someone doesn't agree with you.[/quote]

Inferior minds are incapable of agreeing with me.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SirLK26;1168272]Come on Schneed. This is pure speculation until someone credible with an inside source says it. As you always say, provide a link. I havent seen anywhere that the problem was between McC and Gruden, just McC and Allen as far as I know[/quote]

Then you don't understand organizational dynamics. Enjoy your career at the bottom rung of the ladder.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=mredskins;1168266]Its a joke buddy, relax. Chill.[/quote]

mredskins you sneaky bastard. :oink:

you got me...I was just a little blown away with the article. The writer really set up where the organization had gone in just a year...from feeling great, "level", and excited about the future.

back to effing dysfunction dumpster fire...I mean this team will kill me in the end.

Im just sick of the drama...its been going on for 20 years!!!!

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168283]Then you don't understand organizational dynamics. Enjoy your career at the bottom rung of the ladder.[/quote]

Allow me to translate for those of you that dont speak Schneed:

"Yes you caught me bullshitting, it was my speculation that I was trying to pass off as obvious fact. Now Im gonna insult your intelligence in an attempt to not look like a pretentious jack ass." :laughing-

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=SirLK26;1168287]Allow me to translate for those of you that dont speak Schneed:

"Yes you caught me bullshitting, it was my speculation that I was trying to pass off as obvious fact. Now Im gonna insult your intelligence in an attempt to not look like a pretentious jack ass." :laughing-[/quote]

gotta learn to speak that "Schneedese"

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1168267]With Breeland, clearly a big part of the problem was Perry Fewell. We heard lots, especially from Keim, about how poor he was about communicating assignments. Not to dismiss Breeland's pouty bullshit as acceptable - but it should definitely be for Gruden to determine whether Breeland needs space to cool off, or whether he needs to be reprimanded. McC isn't close enough to understand the nuances of Fewell's actions and how they mixed with Breeland.

On Cravens, yeah. Yikes. You play through things like a bruise. We're supposed to be building a culture of toughness. It's disappointing to hear he didn't play.[/quote]

Yeah, it says a lot that when we were interviewing for d-coordinator, they didn't even give an interview to a former coordinator in Fewell. That was one reason I felt like maybe the coaches weren't getting through to Breeland.

Re: Trouble in Redskins Park?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168285]mredskins you sneaky bastard. :oink:

you got me...I was just a little blown away with the article. The writer really set up where the organization had gone in just a year...from feeling great, "level", and excited about the future.

back to effing dysfunction dumpster fire...I mean this team will kill me in the end.

[B]Im just sick of the drama[/B]...its been going on for 20 years!!!![/quote]

You and me both. Even when they crawl out of the dumpster, they can't help themselves but to crawl back in.