Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1184858]or Tyrod Taylor.



And if we move from Cousins, FFS, get a fucking QB in the draft. We have zero young QBs on the roster developing. It doesn't have to be a number 1 if we don't feel like they are worth it...but get a decent young QB prospect on the roster.[/QUOTE]



I’m still mad we cut Sudfeld.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1184859]I’m still mad we cut Sudfeld.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Well to be fair....Sudnuts sucked balls. Here in Richmond during training camp, one beat reporter was interviewing with local sports radio and said he had been the worst player on the field. Remember, this is the same field that Ryan Grant was on.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184855]What would you be willing to give up in a trade? If the Chiefs are serious about trading him there will definitely be several teams interested.[/quote]

I wasn't sure if Alex Smith was a free agent or not next season. If he's not, I'm not really interested in trading for him. Definitely no draft pick trades, we need our draft picks. If not Smith, I would definitely try to land Bridgewater.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I believe the Vikings move forward with Bridgewater next year and let Case go, outside of him winning the super bowl for them. We could get Bradford, and that way Reed would have someone to sit with on the sidelines next season with all their injuries.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Redskins247;1184866]I believe the Vikings move forward with Bridgewater next year and let Case go, outside of him winning the super bowl for them. [B]We could get Bradford, and that way Reed would have someone to sit with on the sidelines next season with all their injuries.[/B][/quote]

:laughing2

that would be cute...both sitting there with pacifiers in mouth on the bench. Bff

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Redskins247;1184841]I honestly hope Cousins is resigned here to a long term deal...not on the tag...but I do not think this is going to happen. Watching that Oklahoma/Georgia game last night, all I could see was Snyder salivating over Baker Mayfield...he just seems to love that type of cocky flashy player that he is, and I would think there's a good chance he'll be available when the Redskins pick and Snyder would insist on drafting him.[/quote]

Baker Mayfield is so tempting but he has bust written all over him. He'd be turning the ball over all the time. You know this fanbase can't take interceptions.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1184868]Baker Mayfield is so tempting but he has bust written all over him. He'd be turning the ball over all the time. You know this fanbase can't take interceptions.[/quote]

He's the next Russell Wilson just wait and see

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184869]He's the next Russell Wilson just wait and see[/quote]

Russell Wilson would be a nobody if he was drafted by the Browns.

Mayfield can plan but he needs to end up in the right environment for his style of play and hopefully have a great Defense to take some of the pressure off but you don't get that as a top 5 pick.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=jamf;1184875]Russell Wilson would be a nobody if he was drafted by the Browns.

Mayfield can plan but he needs to end up in the right environment for his style of play and hopefully have a great Defense to take some of the pressure off but you don't get that as a top 5 pick.[/quote]

I think wherever he goes he's gonna get humbled early, the margin of error as a qb is slim in this game and if he truly wants to be great he needs to realize he can't get by on athletic ability alone.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184869]He's the next Russell Wilson just wait and see[/quote]

He’ll be picked before us.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184854]I still can see both sides.

If you sign him long term, I truly believe that for the length of that contract you won't make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. And if you don't sign him long term you may not even find another QB as good as he is for 10 more years.

Such is the frustrating life of the Redskins fan. Just good enough to get you beat.[/quote]



This is spot on about how I feel. You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184854]I still can see both sides.

If you sign him long term, I truly believe that for the length of that contract you won't make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. And if you don't sign him long term you may not even find another QB as good as he is for 10 more years.

Such is the frustrating life of the Redskins fan. Just good enough to get you beat.[/quote]

From my perspective I miss the days of routinely vying for a playoff spot. To me it is worth it winning the division every couple of years and getting a ticket to the dance and probably not make it deep, than it is to be in QB Siberia and go what we went through the last decade and a half.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

It’s just funny that for a team that’s been QB starved for decades, some fans are so ready to move on from one that has played at a pretty high level.

It’s like someone who’s lived in a dumpy one bedroom apartment their whole life and they have the chance to upgrade to a nice 3 bedroom townhouse and they say eh, not the mansion I was looking for, I’ll pass.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184886]It’s just funny that for a team that’s been QB starved for decades, some fans are so ready to move on from one that has played at a pretty high level.

It’s like someone who’s lived in a dumpy one bedroom apartment their whole life and they have the chance to upgrade to a nice 3 bedroom townhouse and they say eh, not the mansion I was looking for, I’ll pass.[/quote]

True...but I think what part of what drives this is the handling of this process by the Skins organization. Once again we have hit bottom from a business standpoint.

At what point "can we handle this worse" truly be defined? Last year Scot McC situation, Jim Zorn situation, Albert Haynesworth situation, The multiple fuck ups just with Bruce Allen with QBs: trade for McNabb, trade for RG3, and now this with Cousins.

Its extremely hard to be positive with a track record from the top of this franchise.

I kinda get why the fans are tired of it and just want it to be over. Its ridiculous.

Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Part of it has to be put on Kirk too, he didn’t even counter the teams offer last year so he’s made it clear he’s been fine with taking the guaranteed $$ vs. a long term deal.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Kirk hasn't shown 1 single sign of wanting to stay in DC, and every time he is asked about it he has the same "we'll see" response.... KD did the same in OKC, I saw it daily in the news there, I have the same bad feeling about Kirk, I dont think he wants to stay with BA in charge.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184893]Kirk hasn't shown 1 single sign of wanting to stay in DC, and every time he is asked about it he has the same "we'll see" response.... KD did the same in OKC, I saw it daily in the news there, I have the same bad feeling about Kirk, I dont think he wants to stay with BA in charge.[/quote]

Cousins team countered a deal from 16-17mil per year and asked for 19 mil per year which the Skins rejected multiple times. This was just 2 years ago. So clearly he was willing to sign.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Redskins247;1184866]I believe the Vikings move forward with Bridgewater next year and let Case go, outside of him winning the super bowl for them. We could get Bradford, and that way Reed would have someone to sit with on the sidelines next season with all their injuries.[/quote]

:D I wished I could rep this post! ;)

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1184895]Cousins team countered a deal from 16-17mil per year and asked for 19 mil per year which the Skins rejected multiple times. This was just 2 years ago. So clearly he was willing to sign.[/quote]

Because BA really doesn't want KC IMO, He says all the right things but never backs it up... Stop the BS and sign him or not

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184892]Part of it has to be put on Kirk too, he didn’t even counter the teams offer last year so he’s made it clear he’s been fine with taking the guaranteed $$ vs. a long term deal.[/quote]

You could read it that way. Or you could read it that he wasn't at all interested in committing to this team unless he saw things change for the better.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184886]It’s just funny that for a team that’s been QB starved for decades, some fans are so ready to move on from one that has played at a pretty high level.

It’s like someone who’s lived in a dumpy one bedroom apartment their whole life and they have the chance to upgrade to a nice 3 bedroom townhouse and they say eh, not the mansion I was looking for, I’ll pass.[/quote]

I think this just ignores circumstances entirely though. The question isn't how has Cousins performed. The question is how could other QBs have performed behind a line that features Trent and Moses, Scherff, and an improving center position.

In games where Reed and Thompson were both on the field, or where we had one and not the other, Cousins's numbers were drastically better. Chucking a screen to Chris Thompson and watching Brandon Scherff go 20 yards downfield to block the free safety, springing Thompson for a TD looks pretty good on the stat sheet for Cousins.

But a lot of QBs could do that. Our offense is a pretty good situation to play in.

The question is what does Cousins CREATE for us. Like, if you're in the playoffs and you need a QB to make a play late in the game to keep the chains moving, Cousins can do it sometimes. But Aaron Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, and several others can do it much much more often.

How would Matthew Stafford or Alex Smith look playing in this offense? I think pretty damn good too.

Our offense with Cousins has been good, that's why I say you can win with him. But he doesn't create the kinds of jaw dropping plays that others do. I would have loved to lock him up in 2015 when we had the chance. The pay would have been reasonable. But I'm not so sure there's a realistic path to a Super Bowl if we're paying a [B]solid NFL starter[/B] top-player-in-the-league money.

I think your thinking has to go to the next level. It's an attitude too dismissive of circumstance.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Can’t wait to see Colt McCoy light things up.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184902]Can’t wait to see Colt McCoy light things up.[/quote]

Unfortunately it seems as if he could be the starter lmao what a joke.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Back to our comfy one room efficiency apartment lol

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184902]Can’t wait to see Colt McCoy light things up.[/quote]

Yeah, why think when you can deflect with sarcasm.

As always, Keim brings the reasoned and balanced thinking. It's not a slam dunk to sign the guy to a contract that makes him the highest paid player. It's a 'dilemma'. Perfect name for it.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35265/jay-grudens-comments-reveals-redskins-dilemma-with-kirk-cousins]Jay Gruden's comments reveals Redskins' dilemma with Kirk Cousins - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

[quote]Of the 12 highest-paid quarterbacks this year in terms of average per year salary, only two made the postseason -- the Pittsburgh Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger and the New Orleans Saints' Drew Brees. And the Saints were coming off four straight 7-9 finishes with Brees. Two quarterbacks were injured -- the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers and the Indianapolis Colts' Andrew Luck. In 2016, seven of the 12 highest-paid missed the playoffs. You'd best believe the Redskins are aware of this stat. Those teams didn't miss just because they paid the quarterback -- it's the most important position in the game; you need a quality one -- but it also speaks to needing cap room to build a consistent winner. And a front office can't use this reason to explain any failures. You can still draft well; you can still sign productive free agents. The Redskins did not miss the playoffs this year because Cousins was making $24.4 million. Still, it shows you need more and, in some cases, a lot more.

There were injuries, of course, but the Redskins could look at the roster and tell themselves, "This is what it'll look like in the future if we can't afford a lot of other pieces." Therefore, you need the quarterback to play at a certain level. Cousins, down the stretch, did not. Having injured players such as tackle Trent Williams, tight end Jordan Reed and running back Chris Thompson would have helped. But they needed Cousins to play well, or consistent, in the other games. Some of the throws were missed or forced; that wasn't an injury issue.[/quote]

Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I’m being as dismissive as those that have had their minds made up since day 1 that they don’t want Kirk here if it means he’s going to get paid top dollar. A swipe at the haters if you will.

Yeah I fully realize it’s not an easy decision. But it also boils down to you either have a QB or you’re looking for one. There’s only 10-12 teams that can say they’re set at QB. The rest are chasing one every season and I’m afraid we’ll be in that group again if Kirk gets away.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

The ultimate failure with Cousins is first if he walk and we receive ZERO compensation. Then we go into next season with Colt McCoy as the starter.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I don't think the dropoff from Kirk to Colt is drastic. From what we'd lose in arm talent we'd pick up with more playmaking ability. I remember a few years ago most of the fanbase was saying the EXACT same thing about Cousins. Most people were calling Cousins Rex Grossman...lol. My thing w/ Colt is he hasn't played in years and is he durable?

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1184908]The ultimate failure with Cousins is first if he walk and we receive ZERO compensation. Then we go into next season with Colt McCoy as the starter.[/quote]

I would assume the Redskins could put the tag on him and perhaps trade him to a team that has a lot of cap room. Perhaps a team like the Browns.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1184909]I don't think the dropoff from Kirk to Colt is drastic. From what we'd lose in arm talent we'd pick up with more playmaking ability. I remember a few years ago most of the fanbase was saying the EXACT same thing about Cousins. Most people were calling Cousins Rex Grossman...lol. My thing w/ Colt is he hasn't played in years and is he durable?[/QUOTE]


Definitely not durable, he tends to scramble around and take shots, so a solid backup would be a must.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1184909]I don't think the dropoff from Kirk to Colt is drastic. From what we'd lose in arm talent we'd pick up with more playmaking ability. I remember a few years ago most of the fanbase was saying the EXACT same thing about Cousins. Most people were calling Cousins Rex Grossman...lol. My thing w/ Colt is he hasn't played in years and is he durable?[/quote]

I like to amend my previous statement also to add..."and lastly we don't draft a QB this year"


I think the drop from Cousins to Colt is significant. We woulda easily been a double digit loss team this year with Colt.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1184908]The ultimate failure with Cousins is first if he walk and we receive ZERO compensation. Then we go into next season with Colt McCoy as the starter.[/quote]

That's true. But we've already taken three steps down that path. The real failure occurred when we failed to lock him up in 2015 at a reasonable price.

Now the question is do you pay top dollar or do you let him go (for a 3rd round compensatory selection, or maybe a tad more if you can wrangle some kind of trade).

Remember, just because you made one mistake doesn't mean you need to make a second. Giving him a long term deal at say $27M per year could be throwing good money after bad.

If Cousins leaves and we get no compensation aside from the 3rd round compensatory pick, the fan base is going to scream for Bruce Allen's job. The thing is, they should already be doing so because of the mistake made in 2015. He already made the bed for us.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184914]That's true. But we've already taken three steps down that path. The real failure occurred when we failed to lock him up in 2015 at a reasonable price.

Now the question is do you pay top dollar or do you let him go (for a 3rd round compensatory selection, or maybe a tad more if you can wrangle some kind of trade).

Remember, just because you made one mistake doesn't mean you need to make a second. Giving him a long term deal at say $27M per year could be throwing good money after bad.

If Cousins leaves and we get no compensation aside from the 3rd round compensatory pick, the fan base is going to scream for Bruce Allen's job. The thing is, they should already be doing so because of the mistake made in 2015. He already made the bed for us.[/quote]

The market dictates 27 mil per imo. I would lock him up and continue to build around him. I wouldn't have a problem and think that is best case.

3rd round would be disappointing but better than nothing. Preference would be a 2nd per Trade which is his value...like you said.

But nothing is inexcusable.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1184915][B]The market dictates 27 mil per imo. I would lock him up and continue to build around him. I wouldn't have a problem and think that is best case. [/B]

3rd round would be disappointing but better than nothing. Preference would be a 2nd per Trade which is his value...like you said.

But nothing is inexcusable.[/quote]

I can see your side.

For me it comes down to this question: how could we win a super bowl sooner?

a) sign Cousins to a record setting QB contract and try to build around him with what cap space we have.

b) let him move on, get what we can whether via trade or compensatory, and start the search for the next great QB while we build up the team.

I think we could win a Super Bowl sooner with A than with B. But I'm not totally sure. The only thing I'm sure of is we won't win a Super Bowl "soon" with either A or B. It sucks. I'm jealous of the Eagles with Wentz. They're going to have multiple shots at it over the next 10-15 years. Until we find a QB like that, it will just be so much harder for us. Especially since one of the up and coming greats is in our division.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184905]Yeah, why think when you can deflect with sarcasm.

As always, Keim brings the reasoned and balanced thinking. It's not a slam dunk to sign the guy to a contract that makes him the highest paid player. It's a 'dilemma'. Perfect name for it.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35265/jay-grudens-comments-reveals-redskins-dilemma-with-kirk-cousins]Jay Gruden's comments reveals Redskins' dilemma with Kirk Cousins - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url][/quote]

As always, Keim is the voice of reason to bridge the gap between both sides of the argument. I, for one, would love to bring Cousins back, because I think he has clearly been the best quarterback we have had in a long time. And when I mean the best quarterback, I mean one that hasn't had just one really good year, he's continued to improve in the three seasons he's started. At the same time, he also has issues of starting the seasons slowly, and then having some really bad games like he did against the Chargers, Cowboys, and Giants.

So, it very much is a dilemma. It most certainly isn't a slam dunk to sign Kirk Cousins. Look at all the needs this team has going into next year. We need to resign Zach Brown, Mason Foster, we need to find a #1 receiver, we need a running back (I just don't have faith in Fat Rob), I'm not sure we can find all of those in the draft, but if we lose Cousins, well, that's another need - quarterback.

It isn't a cut and dry situation. It would've been if Cousins had gotten us to playoff appearances and wins in these last three seasons, but he hasn't. And in the end, what matters the most is your win/loss ratio and playoff appearances.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Schneed, I gotta disagree with you on several of your points here.
[quote=Schneed10;1184899]I think this just ignores circumstances entirely though. The question isn't how has Cousins performed. The question is how could other QBs have performed behind a line that features Trent and Moses, Scherff, and an improving center position. [/quote]
First off, I do not think a lot of those QB’s would perform as well as Cousins with the tools Cousins had. He showed up and consistently produced in this offense with the rag tag motley crew of 2nd stringers. No Jordan Reed, No WR’s, CT out, no problem lets throw up 300 Yards on NO and DEN.
[quote=Schneed10;1184899]In games where Reed and Thompson were both on the field, or where we had one and not the other, Cousins's numbers were drastically better. Chucking a screen to Chris Thompson and watching Brandon Scherff go 20 yards downfield to block the free safety, springing Thompson for a TD looks pretty good on the stat sheet for Cousins.
[/quote]
Is this really a point? That Cousins numbers looked better when he had better players? Yeah, Drew Bree’s numbers probably get better too when he has Alvin Kamara to check down. Tom Brady has screen passes that get taken to the house too.
[quote=Schneed10;1184899] The question is what does Cousins CREATE for us. Like, if you're in the playoffs and you need a QB to make a play late in the game to keep the chains moving, Cousins can do it sometimes. But Aaron Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, and several others can do it much much more often. [/quote]
Yes, I agree with you that Cousins isn’t Tom Brady. That’s obvious to everyone that watches football. He won’t be a top 5 elite QB, EVER. He doesn’t create like them, he doesn’t have the size. We know this. What we do see this season is significant improvements in his game (look at his rushing TD’s, extending plays with his legs, etc). That’s encouraging and worth investing in. He is an accurate passer that can get play makers the ball and continues to improve his game.

The question is, how he and our offense will perform versus the options available for us moving forward. I’ll take Cousins over any of those options available right now by a wide margin.

Lastly, I can get behind an argument that it's not worth the money considering the deficiencies we have. It's 100% a valid argument to question whether or not we would be able to build a championship team with Cousins at a high cap number. You have to draw a line somewhere, and to me, It's $28M/YR. The salary cap will continue to rise, and IMO we will have the flexibility to build through the draft and can put a team together at that number.

If he asks for $28,000,001 we let him walk and move on.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1184909]I don't think the dropoff from Kirk to Colt is drastic. From what we'd lose in arm talent we'd pick up with more playmaking ability. I remember a few years ago most of the fanbase was saying the EXACT same thing about Cousins. Most people were calling Cousins Rex Grossman...lol. My thing w/ Colt is he hasn't played in years and is he durable?[/quote]

It is one thing where you come in off the bench and opposing defenses do not have time to game plan you. It is completely different when you are the starter and the book is written on how to beat you. Colt will get killed once NFL defenses have time to game plan him.
Colt will be concussed by game three and he can join Jordan Reed on the injury bench next year.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

IMO, there is zero chance that McCoy is the starter next year. The fan base just wont stand for it.

Do I think Cousins is worth the huge amount of money that he will get? No. But its his time, he bet on himself and won. Next year it will be someone else's turn and people will be saying he's not worth it.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=irish;1184922]IMO, there is zero chance that McCoy is the starter next year. The fan base just wont stand for it.

Do I think Cousins is worth the huge amount of money that he will get? No. But its his time, he bet on himself and won. [B]Next year it will be someone else's turn and people will be saying he's not worth it.[/B][/quote]

Based on Keim's stats, that so few of the teams with top paid QBs made the playoffs, they're probably more likely right than wrong.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

RG3 is available and I saw his video of basketball, dude is ready