Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1302633]I think the evidentiary record was not on your side with that argument.

Given the injury to Fitz, we're lucky that they brought him back this year. He is playing just well enough to complement how well this defense is playing of late, but yeah I would trade him for Russell Wilson - easily.[/QUOTE]


Last year after the playoff game everyones knock was TH is fragile. I said over n over again that there was not a big enough sample size to consider him fragile. I think the evidentiary record was not on the side of anyone because again, there wasn’t enough of a sample size, or evidence at all.

We agree on him and Russ whole heartedly.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

It wasn't just the playoff game that gave cause for concern over his ability to stay healthy. I'm glad it hasn't been an issue. At the time though it was a fair enough concern.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Well, the only samples we had were injury after injury everywhere he went, including last year's playoff game. I can see why people, including myself, concluded that he was injury prone. I'm glad he has managed to stay healthy this year.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Heinicke spent all offseason working on his body to be durable and it obviously paid off.. Heinicke has taken some hits yesterday and yet he continued to play and seems to not be injured other than being sore. So it seems like Heinicke didn't focus on strengthening his body in the beginning of his NFL career. This is a learning process and Heinicke has shown that he understood what he needs to do to be a legit QB in NFL.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1302637]It wasn't just the playoff game that gave cause for concern over his ability to stay healthy. I'm glad it hasn't been an issue. At the time though it was a fair enough concern.[/QUOTE]


No doubt. But he did stay relatively healthy in college. And there were what 2-3 unrelated injuries. I always maintained that coming in cold after bench warming was a reason for the injuries in the pros.

Anyway im wrong alot so just give me the W here and we will move on. [emoji6]

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=punch it in;1302622]Dude I love TH. You can go back to last year when I spent weeks arguing that he isn’t as fragile as everyone thinks. I loooove TH. BUT if you think Russ is washed you’re crazy. He is coming off an injury. I would trade TH straight up for Russ in a nano second. Actually quicker than that.[/quote]

Exactly. Wilson is injured and not close to 100%. But if you think Seattle would trade Wilson straight up for TH you're dreaming.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

CPOE (completion percentage over expected) basically is a stat that looks at what the name says.

The worst are unsurprisingly Zach Wilson (-7.9), Trevor Lawrence (-6.5), Sam darnold (-5), followed by Winston, dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Siemian, Fields, then surprisingly Mahomes (-3.5)

Heinike is 8th BEST at +2.2. Now this stat isnt an end all be all as he has Bridgewater and Tua above him but I was surprised.

--------------

I think Turner should get a lot of credit bc he puts Heinike in positions to succeed.

The short to intermediate plays where it is all designed to just get 1 guy open and have Heinike only have to look for that one guy.

If its a play where Heinike will have to read multiple routes and go through progressions, theres always an open dump out or release for him to hit.

----------
Heinike is such an enigma to me. Why havent defenses gone single high safety, shadow teh back and just play the box 20 yds from the LOS?

I keep waiting for this dink and dunk offense to be shut down.

Perhaps it has to a degree. We only put up 17 points last 2 games and thats with our offense executing the gameplan pretty welll.

We run a ton but those runs per avg arent impressive.

vs Raiders, we ran 30 times for 112 yds (3.7 avg). raiders avg 4.8 per run against our run stopping D.

vs Seattle ran it 43 times, 152 yd (3.5 avg), longest run was 17 yds

------------

I dont know my point, I dont really have a point but I guess Im confused by our success .. but then again can you say this is a successful offense? We won so its a yes .. but the offense is an enigma.

Have we just been fortunate lately on converting 3rd and shorts? Once we stop converting are we in trouble bc we have 2-3 drives that equal points but if one of those drives doesnt convert on 3rd and short, we punt.

I want to go back and look at our scoring drives and see how many relied on 2 or more 3rd and short conversions.

Am I a hater?

Honestly im just killing the last 20 mins of work and the clock just struck 5

[url]https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#completionPercentageAboveExpectation[/url]

[url]https://www.the33rdteam.com/cpoe-explained/[/url]

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

I think the YPC is a little misleading when everyone looks for 4y+. The thing to consider with anything 3.4 or more is on average that's a 1st down for every 3 carries (I know it's not literally). That's how our clock management is working. We're not looking for big play after big play (probably, aside from drops, why Mahomes has suffered this year), we're just looking for 1st down after 1st down. It's not that we're not looking for the big play, we're just not forcing it because we often don't need to.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

I don't like Greg Olsen the announcer, but this was a good interview spliced with Heinicke and Rivera.

[url]https://youtu.be/ui22Y8pLhTI[/url]

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Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

For his first year full time in the booth I think Olsen has been pretty good.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=SunnySide;1302875]CPOE (completion percentage over expected) basically is a stat that looks at what the name says.

The worst are unsurprisingly Zach Wilson (-7.9), Trevor Lawrence (-6.5), Sam darnold (-5), followed by Winston, dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Siemian, Fields, then surprisingly Mahomes (-3.5)

Heinike is 8th BEST at +2.2. Now this stat isnt an end all be all as he has Bridgewater and Tua above him but I was surprised.

--------------

I think Turner should get a lot of credit bc he puts Heinike in positions to succeed.

The short to intermediate plays where it is all designed to just get 1 guy open and have Heinike only have to look for that one guy.

If its a play where Heinike will have to read multiple routes and go through progressions, theres always an open dump out or release for him to hit.

----------
Heinike is such an enigma to me. Why havent defenses gone single high safety, shadow teh back and just play the box 20 yds from the LOS?

I keep waiting for this dink and dunk offense to be shut down.

Perhaps it has to a degree. We only put up 17 points last 2 games and thats with our offense executing the gameplan pretty welll.

We run a ton but those runs per avg arent impressive.

vs Raiders, we ran 30 times for 112 yds (3.7 avg). raiders avg 4.8 per run against our run stopping D.

vs Seattle ran it 43 times, 152 yd (3.5 avg), longest run was 17 yds

------------

I dont know my point, I dont really have a point but I guess Im confused by our success .. but then again can you say this is a successful offense? We won so its a yes .. but the offense is an enigma.

Have we just been fortunate lately on converting 3rd and shorts? Once we stop converting are we in trouble bc we have 2-3 drives that equal points but if one of those drives doesnt convert on 3rd and short, we punt.

I want to go back and look at our scoring drives and see how many relied on 2 or more 3rd and short conversions.

Am I a hater?

Honestly im just killing the last 20 mins of work and the clock just struck 5

[url]https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#completionPercentageAboveExpectation[/url]

[url]https://www.the33rdteam.com/cpoe-explained/[/url][/quote]

At a certain point you just have to toss stats out the window and enjoy the ride.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[URL="https://youtu.be/k9QQr-WrDDA"]https://youtu.be/k9QQr-WrDDA[/URL]

These guys do a good job of breakdown Heinike's all 22.

This is vs Seattle. First play they look at highlights heinike's problems. Doesnt read the field, doesnt seem like he knows which defender he should be reading to dictate where he should go. hes head starts by looking left but seems to be pre snap determined to force the ball to Terry down the middle/right (whose double covered) bc if he was actually looking left he would have seen the playcall worked perfectly for an easy 10 yarder and first down.

---------

Radio is saying Heinike left guys open this Sunday.

------------

Even when heinike has a "good" game .. the all 22 shows he just inst reading plays, he isnt reading defenders, his throws are a second late and hes leaving open guys.

Even when the camera shows him looking from left to right .. I dont think hes actually reading and seeing the field as much as hes just going through the motions of "reading the field". hes not actively critically reading the field.

-----------

The all 22 just is not favorable to him.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

I wanted TH to succeed, but this is a damning play

[url]https://twitter.com/TaeNToddPodcast/status/1470612639583813634?t=u2QKfKqzvfHVRpP2aTwXqQ&s=19[/url]

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Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1303926]I wanted TH to succeed, but this is a damning play

[url]https://twitter.com/TaeNToddPodcast/status/1470612639583813634?t=u2QKfKqzvfHVRpP2aTwXqQ&s=19[/url]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I Like him too and its a great feel good story but the Cinderella run will crash eventually.. He had a few of these where guys are wide open so it just shows that the Cowboys D isn't that great.. He just doesn't see the field well and that floater he throws is so bad. He's prob the starter the rest of the way but I was impressed with Allen Sunday.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=SunnySide;1303910][URL="https://youtu.be/k9QQr-WrDDA"]https://youtu.be/k9QQr-WrDDA[/URL]

These guys do a good job of breakdown Heinike's all 22.

This is vs Seattle. First play they look at highlights heinike's problems. Doesnt read the field, doesnt seem like he knows which defender he should be reading to dictate where he should go. hes head starts by looking left but seems to be pre snap determined to force the ball to Terry down the middle/right (whose double covered) bc if he was actually looking left he would have seen the playcall worked perfectly for an easy 10 yarder and first down.

---------

Radio is saying Heinike left guys open this Sunday.

------------

Even when heinike has a "good" game .. the all 22 shows he just inst reading plays, he isnt reading defenders, his throws are a second late and hes leaving open guys.

Even when the camera shows him looking from left to right .. I dont think hes actually reading and seeing the field as much as hes just going through the motions of "reading the field". hes not actively critically reading the field.

-----------

The all 22 just is not favorable to him.[/quote]

He's an undrafted FA for a reason, great heart and a guy you want on the team but only as a backup. He's basically a poor mans Fitzmagic if u really think about it

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1303929]he's an undrafted fa for a reason, great heart and a guy you want on the team but only as a backup. He's basically a poor mans fitzmagic if u really think about it[/quote]

[b][i]100[/i][/b]

Somehow we can afford Fitz but we still have the poor guy's version of him, oh to be a WFT fan.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1303926]I wanted TH to succeed, but this is a damning play

[url]https://twitter.com/TaeNToddPodcast/status/1470612639583813634?t=u2QKfKqzvfHVRpP2aTwXqQ&s=19[/url]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Feels like there's multiple plays like this every game.

Taylor might have a future as a backup in this league but definitely not as the starter. He just doesn't read the field.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Heinicke will never be able to face defenses that have a strong pass rush......he can't overcome slow starts.....

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[url]https://twitter.com/tiller56/status/1476207525913575431?s=21[/url]

This is hard to watch… he literally steps into the throw and it skips to sims who was open..

He has one of the weakest arms ever


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Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

I know there's one game left, but I think we can safely say now that TH is not the long term answer as the starter. Good backup and I hope he sticks around in that role, but his arm is simply too limited in terms of strength and accuracy.

Back to square one this offseason.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=MTK;1306712]I know there's one game left, but I think we can safely say now that TH is not the long term answer as the starter. Good backup and I hope he sticks around in that role, but his arm is simply too limited in terms of strength and accuracy.

Back to square one this offseason.[/quote]

Yeah he has one of the weakest arms that I can remember. But the main issue is he's terribly inaccurate on any throw over 10 yards.

He's a poor mans Fitz, can move well and make some plays here and there but isn't a good enough passer to lead a team

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1306717]Yeah he has one of the weakest arms that I can remember. But the main issue is he's terribly inaccurate on any throw over 10 yards.

He's a poor mans Fitz, can move well and make some plays here and there but isn't a good enough passer to lead a team[/quote]

If you watch him, too often he's not properly squared when he throws the ball (ie, off balance, throwing off back foot). So, it exacerbates his weak arm.

Heck! He threw off his back foot on his last pass which resulted in the game-winning INT for the Eagles. He doesn't have the arm strength nor accuracy to continue to throw the ball off his back foot.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1306719]If you watch him, too often he's not properly squared when he throws the ball (ie, off balance, throwing off back foot). So, it exacerbates his weak arm.

Heck! He threw off his back foot on his last pass which resulted in the game-winning INT for the Eagles. He doesn't have the arm strength nor accuracy to continue to throw the ball off his back foot.[/quote]

Exactly, he tries to be Brett Favre but with a noodle arm

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

I wonder whether RR will start Allen against the Giants to see whether he might be the better #2. Because TH has played like #2 as of late.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=calia;1306742]I wonder whether RR will start Allen against the Giants to see whether he might be the better #2. Because TH has played like #2 as of late.[/quote]

The team just announced that Heinicke will start the game this Sunday. At this point, we all can agree that we want to retain Heinicke only as a backup QB.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Let TH finish what he started. Going to Allen now would make no sense.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=GridIron26;1306745]The team just announced that Heinicke will start the game this Sunday. [B]At this point, we all can agree that we want to retain Heinicke only as a backup QB.[/B][/quote]

Not necessarily. I'd thank TH for his service and send him on his way at the end of the season. The only way TH stays in the NFL is if WFT keeps him. I don't see any teams being interested in a small, weak arm QB.

IMO Garrett Gilbert would be a better back up than TH. Bigger body and bigger arm. Heck I think GG should be starting now instead of TH.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=irish;1306754]Not necessarily. I'd thank TH for his service and send him on his way at the end of the season. The only way TH stays in the NFL is if WFT keeps him. I don't see any teams being interested in a small, weak arm QB.

IMO Garrett Gilbert would be a better back up than TH. Bigger body and bigger arm. Heck I think GG should be starting now instead of TH.[/quote]

We all say things out of anger it's ok... lol

But I indeed have lost faith and left the Heineken train as of late. He shouldn't have a future here unless he's the back up. Covid and injuries, the o line, the bone head play calling
the poor defense sometimes and a lot of other unlucky shit ran through this team and while I don't think he got a complete fair shake at finishing strong and succeeding... his arm is just too questionable for me at this stage

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

To my mind:

1) TH should be #1 backup for now, and that's why he was extended last year. He offers a spark coming of the bench we don't have otherwise. But he doesn't have the arm to manage a whole season.
2) Allen should probably be gone in the offseason. He's never demonstrated the talent to be anything more than a perennial backup and we already have TH.
3) Gilbert is 30 and realistically if he really offered anything more than backup/PS squad rotation one of his 8 previous teams would have elevated him by now.

We need a new #1 and hopefully a franchise QB at that. Maybe we don't get him in this draft, but we need to draft a QB anyway this year (they might turn out to be the new TH if not #1 quality), and keep drafting one until we find our guy. The key is to avoid another Haskins at the very least. While I'm not convinced that the current staff can identify a franchise QB in the making, I'm pretty confident they're good judges of character at least.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Turner confirmed that [URL="https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/taylor-heinicke-will-be-factor-regardless-any-qb-moves-scott-turner"]Heinicke will be back[/URL] with us next year. I'm glad we are retaining him, it's not easy to find a backup QB that the team would rally for.

This makes me wonder if we will bring back Kyle Allen as well. I hope we will.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=GridIron26;1307296]Turner confirmed that [URL="https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/taylor-heinicke-will-be-factor-regardless-any-qb-moves-scott-turner"]Heinicke will be back[/URL] with us next year. I'm glad we are retaining him, it's not easy to find a backup QB that the team would rally for.

This makes me wonder if we will bring back Kyle Allen as well. I hope we will.[/quote]

Depending on COVID rules next year, keeping 3 QBs is probably a requirement for most teams. Hopefully we draft a guy and also keep both of them.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=GridIron26;1307296]Turner confirmed that [URL="https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/taylor-heinicke-will-be-factor-regardless-any-qb-moves-scott-turner"]Heinicke will be back[/URL] with us next year. I'm glad we are retaining him, it's not easy to find a backup QB that the team would rally for. [/quote]

He's under contract for one more year, for cheap, so I don't know why they would say anything otherwise.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Yeah you are right, just that a few people have been saying that we shouldn't keep him so I just wanted to end this idea.