Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

i think we all know the reason Gov. Palin uses personal e mails to conduct business. that way the keep outside the frame work of the law. non -disclosure?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478234]As evident by the hacking I would have to say no, I don't think they maintain better security protocols. Off course it all depends who they hired to manage their IT department. Knowing how Palin operates I would not be supprised if one of her high school friends got the head IT department job because they love "browsing the web."


[B]BTW I don't see how your question is relevant or supportive of your position.[/B][/quote]

Just an aside. I'd assume that she was "hacked" by either being a typical sloppy pc user or someone with access to accounts at yahoo gave her up. Regardless, my point is that I couldn't less if she's conducting business using her [email]sexchick69@looseskanks.com[/email] so long as her policies are sound and she is actually a "reformer." Those two last points are VERY much up in the air. My concern is that we make mountains out of molehills and ignore actual issues. To me, this is a joke of an issue. It's equivalent to bitching because someone wears jeans to work. It's the work that matters, not the superficial stuff...

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;478246]i think we all know the reason Gov. Palin uses personal e mails to conduct business. that way the keep outside the frame work of the law. non -disclosure?[/quote]

If they found any watergate type stuff going on, then I would 100% agree with you. But there was nothing shady from what I've seen.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;478199]Here's a question for you guys:

If Candidate A wants to raise taxes (on the rich), but will spend more frugally, and Candidate B wants to lower taxes (on the rich), but will spend more frivolously, who do you choose?[/quote]

This isn't the answer you want, but I wouldn't vote for either of these two candidates. Both policies are detrimental to the economy.

'A' sounds like a democrat, and 'B' sounds like a republican -- that's why I vote third party.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;478247]Just an aside. I'd assume that she was "hacked" by either being a typical sloppy pc user or someone with access to accounts at yahoo gave her up. Regardless, my point is that I couldn't less if she's conducting business using her [EMAIL="sexchick69@looseskanks.com"]sexchick69@looseskanks.com[/EMAIL] so long as her policies are sound and she is actually a "reformer." Those two last points are VERY much up in the air. My concern is that we make mountains out of molehills and ignore actual issues. To me, this is a joke of an issue. It's equivalent to bitching because someone wears jeans to work. It's the work that matters, not the superficial stuff...[/quote]

I understand what you're saying but I strongly disagree with prejudice. Realize that you're condoning the circumvention of document retention laws and breaking the law.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;478247]Just an aside. I'd assume that she was "hacked" by either being a typical sloppy pc user or someone with access to accounts at yahoo gave her up. Regardless, my point is that I couldn't less if she's conducting business using her [EMAIL="sexchick69@looseskanks.com"]sexchick69@looseskanks.com[/EMAIL] so long as her policies are sound and she is actually a "reformer." Those two last points are VERY much up in the air. My concern is that we make mountains out of molehills and ignore actual issues. To me, this is a joke of an issue. It's equivalent to bitching because someone wears jeans to work. It's the work that matters, not the superficial stuff...[/quote]
Here's how she was hacked:
[url=http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/palin-e-mail-ha.html]Palin E-Mail Hacker Says It Was Easy | Threat Level from Wired.com[/url]
[quote]As detailed in the postings, the Palin hack didn't require any real skill. Instead, the hacker simply reset Palin's password using her birthdate, ZIP code and information about where she met her spouse -- the security question on her Yahoo account, which was answered (Wasilla High) by a simple Google search.[/quote]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=onlydarksets;478281]Here's how she was hacked:
[url=http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/palin-e-mail-ha.html]Palin E-Mail Hacker Says It Was Easy | Threat Level from Wired.com[/url][/quote]

That was exactly my point. Typical user. And saden1, I didn't think about doc retention laws. Excellent point.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;478057]Foresight in general yes, but more acutely in his area(s) of expertise, much more so. But I don't expect the President to necessarily be an economic guru. My gut reaction to hearing about the bail out was "No effing way, not another one." But, after thinking about the ripple effect such a massive failure would have on the economy, you realize that despite your philosophical objections there really isn't another option. I mean, I watch Man Vs Wild all the time. The guy drinks his own urine in order to survive, but that doesn't mean that he can't bitch about the taste it leaves in his mouth.

That said, I understand McCain's initial reaction because I shared it. I would assume that one of his many advisers briefed him and gave him additional perspective therefore he changed his mind. The principles of "small government" do not condone buying up companies in the manner which we have recently seen. Any person that would be all about backing these big corporations with taxpayer money and not at least voice some apprehension would worry me. Again, nothing I'm saying is an attack on Obama, more of a general defense that no one person is going to automatically know the correct course of action. The willingness to listen and then have an informed opinion is of great benefit and one of the primary qualities I look for in a leader.

And regarding Hooskin's comment about "flip flopping," I thought that was the most ridiculous criticism made during the last election and I have not changed that opinion. The term literally gives me a migraine every time I hear/read it. I see nothing wrong with someone becoming more educated on a subject and changing their mind. I have a real hard time with someone so dedicated to dogma that they refuse to see the forest for the trees.[/quote]That, and let's not act as if they are now OWNED by the government. They are going to have to pay the interest on this loan in order to say in business. Granted, the U.S. government had to either grant them a loan to buy them time and get it turned around, or let them file for bankruptcy, but it's not as if the U.S. government is now running the day to day operations of AIG.

Because that would be a total disaster.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478280]I understand what you're saying but I strongly disagree with prejudice. Realize that you're condoning the circumvention of document retention laws and breaking the law.[/quote]

I think I am a "Law and Order" kind of guy, but I think this story is a non-story. If Obama used his government computer to send a personal e-mail, I wouldn't scream "misappropriation of government resources!" In other words.....there's nothing to see here folks, move along.

Why is it that we've reached the point where people jump at the tiniest opening to attack their opponent. "He lied about a BJ!" "She used her yahoo account instead of her alaska.gov account to send an e-mail!" "He said lipstick!" I call BS on all of that phony BS outrage.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;478311]I think I am a "Law and Order" kind of guy, but I think this story is a non-story. If Obama used his government computer to send a personal e-mail, I wouldn't scream "misappropriation of government resources!" In other words.....there's nothing to see here folks, move along.

Why is it that we've reached the point where people jump at the tiniest opening to attack their opponent. "He lied about a BJ!" "She used her yahoo account instead of her alaska.gov account to send an e-mail!" "He said lipstick!" I call BS on all of that phony BS outrage.[/quote]

But SGG, emails exist from the governor's team advising Palin employees to use personal emails so as to avoid the potential for subpoena. This was always about subverting the rule of law and clouding transparency. You don't think this is behavior unbecoming of an elected executive? After the secrecy of the last 8 years you don't think this is kind of a big deal?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;478314]But SGG, emails exist from the governor's team advising Palin employees to use personal emails so as to avoid the potential for subpoena. This was always about subverting the rule of law and clouding transparency. You don't think this is behavior unbecoming of an elected executive? After the secrecy of the last 8 years you don't think this is kind of a big deal?[/quote]

That is very different. If Palin directed her employees to use personal e-mails to cover up some impropriety, that is a serious problem. I didn't read the entire thread; I only came across e-mails saying she used her personal email account in corresponding about government business. I didn't hear anything in the press about the story either.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;478311]I think I am a "Law and Order" kind of guy, but I think this story is a non-story. If Obama used his government computer to send a personal e-mail, I wouldn't scream "misappropriation of government resources!" In other words.....there's nothing to see here folks, move along.

Why is it that we've reached the point where people jump at the tiniest opening to attack their opponent. "He lied about a BJ!" "She used her yahoo account instead of her alaska.gov account to send an e-mail!" "He said lipstick!" I call BS on all of that phony BS outrage.[/quote]


This isn't about using goverment computers for conducting personal business, it's conducting goverment business via non-goverment communication line which is a problem whether it's Obama, Palin, McCain, or Biden.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;478317]That is very different. If Palin directed her employees to use personal e-mails to cover up some impropriety, that is a serious problem. I didn't read the entire thread; I only came across e-mails saying she used her personal email account in corresponding about government business. I didn't hear anything in the press about the story either.[/quote]


I guess we agree then.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;478317]That is very different. If Palin directed her employees to use personal e-mails to cover up some impropriety, that is a serious problem. I didn't read the entire thread; I only came across e-mails saying she used her personal email account in corresponding about government business. I didn't hear anything in the press about the story either.[/quote]

Per the recent Times expose:

[I]While Ms. Palin took office promising a more open government, her administration has battled to keep information secret. Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.”

Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. A campaign spokesman said the governor copied e-mail messages to her state account “when there was significant state business.”

On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.”

Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”

Mr. Bailey, a former midlevel manager at Alaska Airlines who worked on Ms. Palin’s campaign, has been placed on paid leave; he has emerged as a central figure in the trooper investigation. [/I]


[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=4&_r=2&adxnnlx=1221588185-c0NhbTON3/fDJJQww%20P%20bQ[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;478331]Per the recent Times expose:

[I]While Ms. Palin took office promising a more open government, her administration has battled to keep information secret. Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.” [/I]

[I]Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. A campaign spokesman said the governor copied e-mail messages to her state account “when there was significant state business.” [/I]

[I]On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.”[/I]

[I]Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”[/I]

[I]Mr. Bailey, a former midlevel manager at Alaska Airlines who worked on Ms. Palin’s campaign, has been placed on paid leave; he has emerged as a central figure in the trooper investigation. [/I]


[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=4&_r=2&adxnnlx=1221588185-c0NhbTON3/fDJJQww%20P%20bQ[/URL][/quote]
Do you have an unbias source for this story as the times leans so far left that it often falls over.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478238]Perhaps you should take the responsibility of sending Uncle Sam his money more seriously? Next time he just might send IRS agents to break your legs.[/quote]
Heck for what they charged me for the two late days a broken leg would have been cheaper.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;478371]Heck for what they charged me for the two late days a broken leg would have been cheaper.[/quote]

Let me explain something to you. When people criticize the Times for being biased, as they often do, what they mean is this: that the times fails to hold the same critical lens up to liberal politicians that it does to conservatives. While I have questioned this in the past I won't dispute that this is probably the case this election. There have been more critical stories about McCain recently than Obama. However, what critics don't say is that the Times makes things up, that they cook stories, meaning that you can't just say a times article is biased and ignore it (Jason Blaire notwithstanding, although that was certainly not a political issue).

The Wall St. Journal is the same on the right. While the editorial page leans right and the articles reflect a certain framework, a thinking person would never dismiss a WSJ article outright just because they favor conservative governance. Not without pointing out specifically what was factually inaccurate in the text. To do so would be stupid, sloppy reasoning. For the record, liberal as I am, I love the WSJ.

Anyway, is there a specific point of contention you have or do you just not read whatever papers Rush tells you not to read? Explain your position vis-a-vis the article and the use of private emails to conduct government business. How is bias clouding the conclusions of the author?

Also, here's a post article talking about the same issue - specifically the governor's failure to comply with a Freedom of Information Act request for emails related to government business. [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/17/AR2008091703304.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

EDIT: I obviously meant to quote your previous response.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Fish love oil?

[yt]fU7MSaN6zUU[/yt]

Can this guy get more insulting?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;478381]Let me explain something to you. When people criticize the Times for being biased, as they often do, what they mean is this: that the times fails to hold the same critical lens up to liberal politicians that it does to conservatives. While I have questioned this in the past I won't dispute that this is probably the case this election. There have been more critical stories about McCain recently than Obama. However, what critics don't say is that the Times makes things up, that they cook stories, meaning that you can't just say a times article is biased and ignore it (Jason Blaire notwithstanding, although that was certainly not a political issue).

The Wall St. Journal is the same on the right. While the editorial page leans right and the articles reflect a certain framework, a thinking person would never dismiss a WSJ article outright just because they favor conservative governance. Not without pointing out specifically what was factually inaccurate in the text. To do so would be stupid, sloppy reasoning. For the record, liberal as I am, I love the WSJ.

Anyway, is there a specific point of contention you have or do you just not read whatever papers Rush tells you not to read? Explain your position vis-a-vis the article and the use of private emails to conduct government business. How is bias clouding the conclusions of the author?

Also, here's a post article talking about the same issue - specifically the governor's failure to comply with a Freedom of Information Act request for emails related to government business. [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/17/AR2008091703304.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]

EDIT: I obviously meant to quote your previous response.[/quote]
I read your link and that seemed like a fair report of the issue and did not draw conclusions on things they do not know as fact as the Times seemed to do. I don't get my news from Rush and I don't really ever listen to him. In the past month I would bet I have not listened to more than a 1/2 hour of his show. I do watch Fox News, but watch one of the three nightly news either NBC, CBS, ABC at 6:30 and I will also watch some CNN & MSNBC. I listen to some right wring radio but also listen to PBS. I enjoy hearing both side of an issue and find it interesting how different a story will run from one station to the next.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478390]Fish love oil?

[yt]fU7MSaN6zUU[/yt]

Can this guy get more insulting?[/quote]
Thats a pretty dumb video you just showed. Whats the link between the inland oil pump and the one in the ocean? Nothing. I did notice they showed the on in the ocean leaning over but they did not show any oil leaking out but thats what they want you to think. What McCain said about fish gatherine around these oil rigs is 100% correct and they are great fishing grounds.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

The son of state Rep. Mike Kernell has been contacted by authorities in connection with a probe into the hacking of the personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Kernell confirmed on Thursday.

Kernell, a Memphis Democrat, said his 20-year-old son David had been contacted by authorities investigating the hacking of Palin’s personal email account.
Advertisement

The FBI and the Secret Service started a formal investigation on Wednesday into the hacking.

David Kernell is a student at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville. Mike Kernell said he spoke to his son on Thursday, as he does on a regular basis.

Kernell otherwise declined to comment, or discuss his son’s whereabouts and whether he was in custody.

Here's the personal page of the soon-to-be-Bubba's lover (and I don't mean former President Clinton):

[url]http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=414834571[/url]



Gee...he was raised by a Democrat politician? I'm shocked.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Buster;478402]The son of state Rep. Mike Kernell has been contacted by authorities in connection with a probe into the hacking of the personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Kernell confirmed on Thursday.

Kernell, a Memphis Democrat, said his 20-year-old son David had been contacted by authorities investigating the hacking of Palin’s personal email account.
Advertisement

The FBI and the Secret Service started a formal investigation on Wednesday into the hacking.

David Kernell is a student at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville. Mike Kernell said he spoke to his son on Thursday, as he does on a regular basis.

Kernell otherwise declined to comment, or discuss his son’s whereabouts and whether he was in custody.

Here's the personal page of the soon-to-be-Bubba's lover (and I don't mean former President Clinton):

[URL]http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=414834571[/URL]



Gee...he was raised by a Democrat politician? I'm shocked.[/quote]
Well Republicans have had their share of run in's with the law so the party is not the issue. I think we all knew it was going to be a dem because of the nature of the crime.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;478398]Thats a pretty dumb video you just showed. Whats the link between the inland oil pump and the one in the ocean? Nothing. I did notice they showed the on in the ocean leaning over but they did not show any oil leaking out but thats what they want you to think. What McCain said about fish gatherine around these oil rigs is 100% correct and they are great fishing grounds.[/quote]

I would advice you against eating any fish caught in oil rig fishing grounds.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478415]I would advice you against eating any fish caught in oil rig fishing grounds.[/quote]
Saden stick to topics that you know something about.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;478417]Saden stick to topics that you know something about.[/quote]


Yes sir. So, tell me all about fishing nearing oil rigs. Did you catch any fish around that neck of the woods? How did the fish taste?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478429]Yes sir. So, tell me all about fishing nearing oil rigs. Did you catch any fish around that neck of the woods? How did the fish taste?[/quote]
I am not a proponent of wholesale drilling in the Gulf. However, you will find the oil, and gas rigs to be on everybody's shortlist (including the professional fishing guides) of most productive fishing area's.
It should be noted that for preventatitve measures, it is good practice to avoid fishing in an oil spill. It makes specie identification difficult, and the fish are WAY to hard to handle with all the "Quaker State" on them

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478429]Yes sir. So, tell me all about fishing nearing oil rigs. Did you catch any fish around that neck of the woods? How did the fish taste?[/quote]
[COLOR=#008000][B]gulfcoastseafood[/B].net[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000][URL="http://www.matagordatexas.com/seafood"]www.matagordatexas.com/[B]seafood[/B][/URL][/COLOR]
coloradoriver[B]seafood[/B].com
These are seafoos plants which seel seafood caught in the gulf which has thousands of oil rigs (I think I saw over 25,000 oil rigs)
[URL="http://www99.epinions.com/content_94672096900"]Grand Isle State Park.....Not What It Used To Be...But Still A Nice Place! - Grand Isle State Park - Epinions.com[/URL]
This last link talks about looking out and seeing oil rigs and the shrimping and fishing boats (about third paragraph) so if you eat seafood good chance that fish or shrimp came from the gulf coast and caught around oil rigs.

To answer you question I myself have never fished in the gulf coast but I have had several friends go and fish the oil rigs. They brought home a bunch and it was very good.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Saden, I'm heading out and will not have internet service where I'm going so you have a good weekend. Hopefully we will be celebrating a Skins win Monday and I'm sure you'll have a few more Youtube vids for us to watch. Funny thing is I'm heading to Nags Head NC. to go fishing this weekend but I will stop long enough to watch the game.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;478446]Saden, I'm heading out and will not have internet service where I'm going so you have a good weekend. Hopefully we will be celebrating a Skins win Monday and I'm sure you'll have a few more Youtube vids for us to watch. Funny thing is I'm heading to Nags Head NC. to go fishing this weekend but I will stop long enough to watch the game.[/quote]

You too. Have fun fishing. Hail to the Redskins!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;478396]I read your link and that seemed like a fair report of the issue and did not draw conclusions on things they do not know as fact as the Times seemed to do. I don't get my news from Rush and I don't really ever listen to him. In the past month I would bet I have not listened to more than a 1/2 hour of his show. I do watch Fox News, but watch one of the three nightly news either NBC, CBS, ABC at 6:30 and I will also watch some CNN & MSNBC. I listen to some right wring radio but also listen to PBS. I enjoy hearing both side of an issue and find it interesting how different a story will run from one station to the next.[/quote]

Fair enough Firstdown. Thanks for being reasonable. And sorry for the combative tone. Don't drink whiskey and post!!!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

This post is dedicated to my friend from across the aisle firstdown:

[YT]lM3oww9Vk-c[/YT]

It worked before, why not once again?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478569]This post is dedicated to my friend from across the aisle firstdown:



It worked before, why not once again?[/quote]

Gotta love the insightful eloquence of the Republican Machine -- label the opponent as a 'liberal' or 'elitist' and just leave it at that.

A question for you Republicans: If you needed brain surgery, would you prefer an [I]elite[/I] neurosurgeon? Or a mediocre, run-of-the-mill neurosurgeon?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;478598]Gotta love the insightful eloquence of the Republican Machine -- label the opponent as a 'liberal' or 'elitist' and just leave it at that.

A question for you Republicans: If you needed brain surgery, would you prefer an [I]elite[/I] neurosurgeon? Or a mediocre, run-of-the-mill neurosurgeon?[/quote]The Dems have plenty of labels for their opponents that are thrown around as well: corporate elites, oil companies, "rich, old white guys", profitmongers, warmongers, chickenhawks, etc. etc.

Can't speak for other Republicans, but I would want an [B]elite[/B] neurosurgeon(def b.), not an [B]elitist [/B]neurosurgeon.

[B]elite[/B]: [B]a. [/B]A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status:
[B]b. [/B]The best or most skilled members of a group

[B]elitist[/B]: someone who believes in rule by an elite group

[B]elitism[/B]:
[B]1. [/B]The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
[B]2. [/B][B]a. [/B]The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.[B]b. [/B]Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;478636]The Dems have plenty of labels for their opponents that are thrown around as well: corporate elites, oil companies, "rich, old white guys", profitmongers, warmongers, chickenhawks, etc. etc.

Can't speak for other Republicans, but I would want an [B]elite[/B] neurosurgeon(def b.), not an [B]elitist [/B]neurosurgeon.

[B]elite[/B]: [B]a. [/B]A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status:
[B]b. [/B]The best or most skilled members of a group

[B]elitist[/B]: someone who believes in rule by an elite group

[B]elitism[/B]:
[B]1. [/B]The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
[B]2. [/B][B]a. [/B]The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.[B]b. [/B]Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.[/quote]

Would you have called Thomas Jefferson an elitist? How about Alexander Hamilton or James Madison?

Using the definitions you provided, would you prefer to be ruled by an elite group, or by incompetant buffoons?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;479373]Would you have called Thomas Jefferson an elitist? How about Alexander Hamilton or James Madison?

Using the definitions you provided, [B]would you prefer to be ruled by an elite group, or by incompetant buffoons?[/B][/quote]
I know we're splitting hairs, but there is a key difference in the definitions. elite is simply a description of a person or group.

The problem I have with Elitism is: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups [B]deserve favored treatment by virtue of their [I]perceived[/I] superiority[/B], as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
[B]2. [/B][B]a. [/B]The [B]sense of entitlement[/B] enjoyed by such a group or class.[B]b. [/B]Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478451]You too. Have fun fishing. Hail to the Redskins![/quote]
Well Saturday night we ate some of those oil infested fish. We battered them up and dunked them in 375 degrees oil and they were mighty tasty.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;478569]This post is dedicated to my friend from across the aisle firstdown:

[yt]lM3oww9Vk-c[/yt]

It worked before, why not once again?[/quote]
His own voting record stands for itself and he votes very liberal. Whats any different in pointing that out and Obama pointing out McCains voting record with GB? Seems to me as one in the same.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Maybe Palin shouldn't be the only one that shouldn't be taking questions?

[yt]RDzToc9xbuU[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;479569]His own voting record stands for itself and he votes very liberal. Whats any different in pointing that out and Obama pointing out McCains voting record with GB? Seems to me as one in the same.[/quote]


Don't you find it a bit curious that whoever the democratic nominee turns out to be, that he or she is always "[I]the most liberal[/I]" candidate as rated by some institute or think tank? How is it that this particular label always coincides with the presidential election and conveniently changes no matter who it is? If Hillary had won, don't you think everyone on the Republican side would say the very same about her?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;479537]I know we're splitting hairs, but there is a key difference in the definitions. elite is simply a description of a person or group.

The problem I have with Elitism is: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups [B]deserve favored treatment by virtue of their [I]perceived[/I] superiority[/B], as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
[B]2. [/B][B]a. [/B]The [B]sense of entitlement[/B] enjoyed by such a group or class.[B]b. [/B]Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.[/quote]

I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but couldn't it be said that the Bush family ranks right up there with the very group you have such a problem with? How about McCain? His father and grandfather were both Navy [U]Admirals[/U]. He married into wealth, and has spent nearly 30 years in Washington. You don't think he perceives himself of a higher social status than the rest of us peons?

I'm not a fan of Obama, but doesn't he strike you as just the opposite of the "elitists" -- coming from relative obscurity in a middle class family, and only recently achieving any sort of status by being elected to the Senate? What about Bill Clinton? Come on -- he came from the lower class backwoods in Arkansas for crying out loud. Would you classify either of these people as "elitists" ??

The last republicans who came from similar roots would be Reagan and Nixon. But since then, they've been charter members of the "country club elite".