Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I think he is waiting to see if injuries increase interest.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120886]With Scot around, it's hard to imagine Griffin here another year. I think it's clear they're moving on.[/quote]

So why is he still on the team? I'm really curious as to this.




[quote=CRedskinsRule;1120893]The sad thing for us that we didn't have real talent evaluators before we drafted him. I for one am not an evaluator, and I watched his tape and loved him. I think that's what DS and BA did in 2012 as well. Can we move on now.[/quote]

....or those talent evaluators were ignored by a fanboy and sidekick who was stricken by the Heisman winner's college game. The $$$ in his eyes were blinding him.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

To be fair, alot of people were wrong about Griffin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=OnceWeWereKings;1120874]Yes...but for weeks now it's been the same thing. People have a conversation and 30 tells them how they are wrong no matter how valid the point, then makes a loaded question to respond. Then he tells them they are unresponsive to his questions and then more loaded questions. And this is a cousins thread about his time starting. Instead clown shoes wants to talk about, at length, how he's correct about our injury prone, underwhelming 3rd string qb.

Shit just gets old.

So yes....Griffin is a part of the team. But, an inactive part as of sunday. So why don't we discuss the active players instead of the ones who aren't even dressing?[/QUOTE]



This.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1120894]I think he is waiting to see if injuries increase interest.[/quote]

I think RG3 wants to stay here because he still believes that his best chance to be a starter is here in DC.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1120874]Yes...but for weeks now it's been the same thing. People have a conversation and 30 tells them how they are wrong no matter how valid the point, then makes a loaded question to respond. Then he tells them they are unresponsive to his questions and then more loaded questions. And this is a cousins thread about his time starting. Instead clown shoes wants to talk about, at length, how he's correct about our injury prone, underwhelming 3rd string qb.
Shit just gets old.
So yes....Griffin is a part of the team. But, an inactive part as of sunday. So why don't we discuss the active players instead of the ones who aren't even dressing?[/quote]


For that very reason I put 30 on my ignore list. I just can't deal with that repetitive non sense for so long.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I'm fairly certain I'm on his. The only reason he isn't on mine is because I would get all thrown off if posts were missing out of a thread.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=over the mountain;1120872]30 - if you were gruden and you had Kirk under center and no desean, how would you game plan for the rams?

I imagine running the ball regardless of result, but what else?[/quote]Response cont.

Run game: The game can carry over for the most part. The game plan for Suh can be applied to Donald.

Overall run game thoughts:
(1) Commitment to the run. Its gonna be needed because the Rams are actually [I]better[/I]against the run then Miami.

(2) Running creatively. If base run game fails/struggles (don't count on our TEs to block the POA) there need to be contingency running plans. I think running from spread i.e. forcing the defense to take a LB or DT off the field through personnel groupings and alignment

Passing game: The Rams secondary is average. There is no Brent Grimes or Rashard Jones. The quality of their pass defense is a function on their pass rush. Looking at the numbers and personnel Miami's pass defense is better then the Rams.

Moreso then the Fins this game I can see the passing game being more of a factor and putting a little (not the whole game but a little) more on Kirk's shoulders to attack their secondary.

Like Bill Parcel's used to say 'think players not plays'. And the forgotten man in our passing game has been Garcon. I want to see Pierre involved in the gameplan early so he and Kirk can start to feel good and get a rhythm. Something easy like a screen and a hitch. But Garcon needs help through scheme to get open. Its something Kyle did very will, stack formations, bunch formations etc. There need to be 'Garcon' specific plays early and often.

Keep using Reed, especially use him to help identify coverage. Move him around, split him out wide. Involve Carrier in similar fashion.

I think the next man up is not Ross or Roberts but Grant. To complement Garcon it helps having someone out there that can run the route tree AND can seperate on their own without the aid of scheme.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120886]With Scot around, it's hard to imagine Griffin here another year. I think it's clear they're moving on.[/quote]I agree its hard to imagine right now. Because right now the perception is that Griffin is the problem.

And I agree 100% that its clear that [U][I][B]J[/B][/I][/U] wants to move on with Kirk. But what [B][U]IF[/U][/B] that decision proves to be wrong?

That's the scenario where Griffin would be back on the table. [B][I][U]IF[/U][/I][/B] the decision to move to Kirk proves to be a failure.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Say Cousins ends up failing, we fire the coaching staff, bring in new ones: do we give RG3 MORE time with a brand new system?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Not at the money that has been bandied about.....
[B]IF[/B] he showed any inclination toward much needed improvement in basic QB skills, and accepted an appropriate role on our roster, I'd be ok with it.
NOTE: All bets are off if SM thinks he's a lost cause.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1120887]...I don't disagree that it's far more likely that Jay gets axed before Scot does, but our owner is capable of anything.

I tend to think something will happen with RGIII before the end of the season anyway.[/quote]I guess anything is possible. I just can't see Scott getting the axe though....Bruce? He certainly deserves it, but his last name prolly buys him more leeway then he deserves.

If Derek Carr's injury was more serious Oakland could have been a landing spot, if Griffin in indeed on the trading block.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1120954]Say Cousins ends up failing, we fire the coaching staff, bring in new ones: do we give RG3 MORE time with a brand new system?[/quote]

I believe that would rank as one of the single dumbest moves the franchise could make

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1120933]I'm fairly certain I'm on his. The only reason he isn't on mine is because I would get all thrown off if posts were missing out of a thread.[/quote]

With him, it doesn't make much imagination to figure out what he said.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Yes, agreed. Wondered if that's what some were suggesting. From what you know, that's not in the cards right? Any word on the trade front?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1120954]Say Cousins ends up failing, we fire the coaching staff, bring in new ones: do we give RG3 MORE time with a brand new system?[/quote]At that point Scott and his newly hired HC would need to draft 'their' QB.

Griffin would need to re-structure and understand that he's returning to compete for the job. It would be akin to 49ers with Harbaugh and Alex Smith.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120957]I guess anything is possible. I just can't see Scott getting the axe though....Bruce? He certainly deserves it, but his last name prolly buys him more leeway then he deserves.

If Derek Carr's injury was more serious Oakland could have been a landing spot, if Griffin in indeed on the trading block.[/quote]

I agree -- Bruce deserve the axe, but sadly he probably won't get it. I just hope that Scot sticks around for a while and that Snyder shows the maturity and patience to give the guy room and time to do his job effectively. So far, it's hard not to be impressed with what he's done, with Preston Smith, Scherff, and Jones all contributing significantly. Hopefully, we will see more out of Crowder and Spaight as well.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120962]At that point Scott and his newly hired HC would need to draft 'their' QB.

Griffin would need to re-structure and understand that he's returning to compete for the job. It would be akin to 49ers with Harbaugh and Alex Smith.[/quote]

Bad message to the locker room and he has the type of personality which will alienate his team mates, fan base and FO. Unfortunately to an extent RG3 is a victim of his own success that first year. 2012 is a long time ago.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1120963]I agree -- Bruce deserve the axe, but sadly he probably won't get it. I just hope that Scot sticks around for a while and that Snyder shows the maturity and patience to give the guy room and time to do his job effectively. [B]So far, it's hard not to be impressed with what he's done, with Preston Smith, Scherff, and Jones all contributing significantly. Hopefully, we will see more out of Crowder and Spaight as well.[/quote][/B]
Snyder see's whats up. That's more contributing players than our last 5 drafts.......collectively.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Hog1;1120965][/B]
Snyder see's whats up. That's more contributing players than our last 5 drafts.......collectively.[/quote]

That's true. We've really had some horrible drafts in recent years. Hard to recall the last one that led to multiple starters who lasted for more than a few years. 2000?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1120961]Yes, agreed. Wondered if that's what some were suggesting. From what you know, that's not in the cards right? Any word on the trade front?[/quote]

Haven't heard anything new re: trade. I know some teams did reach out and the Redskins did have some talks but I think they're holding off for something better. Anticipating maybe a QB getting hurt and a team being in a bind?

I'll say again what I said yesterday (and I get that he hasn't said this publicly), Griffin is not Scot's guy and he hasn't been overly impressed with what he has seen up close (not unlike Jay's experience)

Sure it's possible that Griffin returns but it's highly unlikely. And why would you want him back? 3rd HC/OC so 3rd system he has to learn and if it's some "hand-picked" guy how will that go over well in the locker room?

It's too bad it didn't work here, but it didn't. Time to rip the bandage off and move on

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120959]I believe that would rank as one of the single dumbest moves the franchise could make[/quote]

Damn, that's what I wanted to say. I thought you were taking a break? (I'm assuming you won't because the Redskins are like a chain on the ankle. Even when they suck you want to break free but they are juuuust interesting enough to keep you hanging around.)

But seriously, I mean I can't believe this conversation is happening right now. This has been a shitshow of epic proportions yet here we are discussing whether or not RG3 might actually get his umpteenth shot to prove he doesn't suck. I'm going to let this video do the rest of the talking for me. Here's to those of you who won't let it go:

[YT]SKxr2PJ06Y4[/YT]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120968]Haven't heard anything new re: trade. I know some teams did reach out and the Redskins did have some talks but I think they're holding off for something better. Anticipating maybe a QB getting hurt and a team being in a bind?

I'll say again what I said yesterday (and I get that he hasn't said this publicly), Griffin is not Scot's guy and he hasn't been overly impressed with what he has seen up close (not unlike Jay's experience)

Sure it's possible that Griffin returns but it's highly unlikely. And why would you want him back? 3rd HC/OC so 3rd system he has to learn and if it's some "hand-picked" guy how will that go over well in the locker room?

It's too bad it didn't work here, but it didn't. Time to rip the bandage off and move on[/quote]

Good stuff SS as always....

How long is Gruden leash...in your opinion? Im thinking Callahan could be interm HC by week 10

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120968]I'll say again what I said yesterday (and I get that he hasn't said this publicly), Griffin is not Scot's guy and he hasn't been overly impressed with what he has seen up close[/quote]True, Griffin is not Scott's guy because Scott didn't draft him.

But again I find it hard to believe that a GM like Scott allows it to leak to you, SmootSmack, that he feels one way or another about Griffin or any player.

[quote]And why would you want him back? 3rd HC/OC so 3rd system he has to learn...[/quote]o IF Griffin restructures he won't be expensive

o New coach will be the result of an actual coaching searching and vetting process as opposed to the process that led to J

o IF Jay fails and is fired as a result his opinions and thoughts on Griffin will have proven to be wrong, therefore there would re-newed faith in Griffin's ability. After all Griffin's 3 years have been phenomenal, average and 7 starts of below average play paired with coach/system that didn't fit.

o New HC may bring a scheme and ability to get the most out of all the QBs he coaches. Think Harbaugh with Alex Smith and Kaep


[quote]It's too bad it didn't work here, but it didn't. Time to rip the bandage off and move on[/quote]That's where I was last off season. I thought, its over with Griffin because J doesn't want him as his QB. And the situation of a HC with a QB he doesn't want is untenable and bound to fail. I thought trade Griffin and move forward with Kirk and allow J to draft a QB to groom.

But with J's move to go all in with Kirk the circumstances have changed. Jay has chosen Kirk over Griffin and will ultimately be proved right or wrong. If he's wrong then I don't see how he survives and that could happen in season if things get worse.

So, I agree it was time to move on but J ironically has created a scenario where if he fails he has removed himself from the picture.

Afterall, what is lost in the whole discussion is there isn't a big gap between Kirk and Griffin not one close to large enough to warrant completely giving up on Griffin.



[B][COLOR="seagreen"]27th ranked QB by PFF: Kirk Cousins, Washington Redskins (52.8)

Consistency, or lack thereof, is the prevailing theme in this tier, and Cousins fits the bill. He was impressive in his first two games last season, particularly a +5.0 effort against the Eagles in Week 3, but he followed it up with a -6.4 effort the next week against the Giants and a -6.5 mark against the Cardinals in Week 6. He’ll alternate between “wow” throws and head-scratching decisions, and that makes him difficult to get behind as a long-term solution at this point in his career[/COLOR].[/B]From PFF^^

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[B]–[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Cousins has been a curious case himself. Drafted two rounds after RG III, many questioned the move by the Redskins’ brass. When RG III went down with an injury during the closing stretches of 2012, Cousins stepped in and put together two great games, grading at a very impressive +5.0. When Griffin struggled with his consistency in 2013 and then-coach Mike Shanahan infamously benched RG III for health reasons, Cousins flopped — posting four straight games of negative grades.

After Griffin got injured in Week 2 of the 2014 season, Cousins was electric in relief, posting an outstanding +8.2 passing grade. But then he followed up with a -6.9 the very next game, and more poor performances after that, leading to his being benched for Colt McCoy (he wasn’t any good in our grading system, either).

In summary, neither player instills confidence that he can be the long-term answer at the position for Washington. Griffin at least provides hope in terms of his upside, having proven previously that he can perform at an elite level, whereas Cousins has only shown flashes. Cousins has never come close Griffin’s accuracy numbers, and performing well in the preseason, as he has this year, doesn’t equal regular-season success.

That’s why it’s fair to argue that RG III winning the starting job is better for the Redskins, but in all likelihood, if indeed it is Cousins who ends up starting Week 1, he won’t keep the job for the whole season[/COLOR].[/B]
From PFF^^

------------------------------------------------------------

And then they're the money stats, the 3rd down stats and drop backs longer then 2.5s where the delta between them is non-existent and in some cases favors Griffin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I don't think I want to get sucked into this hellish cycle...back to my cave

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1120959]I believe that would rank as one of the single dumbest moves the franchise could make[/QUOTE]


Seriously.

It's so over with RG3, at least it better be.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Just ready to move on. Hopefully to an AFC team.

Personally, I think Cousins has just enough to get it done for us the rest of the year and at least compete for a starting job here if the coaching change happens.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Griffin who?
Get him outa here.
I'm dreaming rally hard that Cousins can win us 7 or 8 games.
Because if he does he may be viewed as being legit, which means we can focus our future draft picks on non QBs.
We need a real tight end.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I think everyone wants Kirk to play well and to win. I [I]hope[/I] he does because that will be the best case scenario. But, I'm not going to shy away from discussing other scenarios nor expressing a differing opinion. I didn't expect that needed to be stated. But since people in this thread are talking about and around me I wanted to address it all one time. People in this thread like to point fingers and wish this thread closed or lament the conversation centered upon Griffin or J or whatever else...yet they actively participate or even push the conversations further. Heck, over the past few pages there has been non-Griffin/J-Gruden discussion and the people complaining loudest about the lack are the ones hypocritically participating in the RGIII based discussions.

I'm gonna re-state my thoughts from earlier in an effort to move on:

Kirk has good NFL arm talent but Kirk might believe in arm a little too much.
He doesn't have the high turnover % by accident.

But when Kirk is humming and the playcalling is on point? I dare say Kirk can look like Drew Brees (one of my favorite QBs in the league). I can tell by the playcalling that Jay/McVay have a lot faith in Kirk's ability but sometimes they too are culpable in his failures by not protecting him with the run and putting too much on his shoulders via the passing game.

Most people either don't know or ignore the fact that I said [I][U][B]Griffin should have been cut at the end of the season prior to training camp[/B][/U][/I]. But I'm always gonna challenge statements that I think are inaccurate/incorrect and seek clarification. And just because I thought Griffin should have been cut doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with bandwagon echo chamber bashing.

At the end of the day I don't care who the QB is nor the style of football....provided we win.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Chico23231;1120964]Bad message to the locker room and he has the type of personality which will alienate his team mates, fan base and FO. Unfortunately to an extent RG3 is a victim of his own success that first year. [B]2012 is a long time ago.[/B][/quote]

At least we only have one person in here that doesn't realize that.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1120950]I agree its hard to imagine right now. Because right now the perception is that Griffin is the problem.



And I agree 100% that its clear that [U][I][B]J[/B][/I][/U] wants to move on with Kirk. But what [B][U]IF[/U][/B] that decision proves to be wrong?



That's the scenario where Griffin would be back on the table. [B][I][U]IF[/U][/I][/B] the decision to move to Kirk proves to be a failure.[/QUOTE]


Griffin has already proven to be a failure, that's why Kirk is playing. If KC doesn't work out it's likely a fresh slate at QB next year. I just don't see how RG3 plays here again. I think at this point SM has seen enough and wiped his hands of the situation.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120985]Griffin has already proven to be a failure, that's why Kirk is playing. If KC doesn't work out it's likely a fresh slate at QB next year. I just don't see how RG3 plays here again. I think at this point SM has seen enough and wiped his hands of the situation.[/quote]I agree and said earlier that IF Kirk fails that the first order of business for Scott is to hire a HC and together pick "their" QB. But IF Kirk/J fail I don't see why that would preclude Griffin from returning to compete. It would be the same scenario as Harbaugh, Smith and Kaep except Griffin being a much more accomplished QB then Smith at that point.

And if you're saying Griffin has proven to be a failure then by the same token Kirk is failure. At this juncture the stats don't support 1 QB having a large measure of separation form the other. And to be really accurate Griffin's [B][I][U]only[/U][/I][/B] real "failure" was during his short tenure with Jay (7 starts). Prior to that he was phenomenal and average.

Maybe Scott has seen enough. All this is moot if Kirk and Jay produce like we all want them. But IF they fail? I can see Scott wondering about Griffin's lost opportunity, like with Alex Smith.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120973]I don't think I want to get sucked into this hellish cycle...back to my cave[/quote]

SS, just admit that you gave special favors to SM for inside information (none of us will tweet about it, promise).

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1120985]Griffin has already proven to be a failure, that's why Kirk is playing. If KC doesn't work out it's likely a fresh slate at QB next year. I just don't see how RG3 plays here again. I think at this point SM has seen enough and wiped his hands of the situation.[/quote]

THIS, 1000x's THIS

the 2012 draft is done, all the costs of that draft are gone. IF our record and performance requires starting anew with a new HC, then he will be bringing in the next 20-22year old stud, and we won't be talking about the 2012 draft no more.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

McLovin isn't even close to be done with the roster.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1120988]Maybe Scott has seen enough. All this is moot if Kirk and Jay produce like we all want them. But IF they fail?[B] I can see Scott wondering about Griffin's lost opportunity, like with Alex Smith[/B].[/quote]

You may have a hard time accepting SS's information. For far too many reasons and based on far to many independently verified statements, I don't.
If SS says - without equivocation - that SM is not a fan of RGIII, you can take it to the bank.

Right now, SM is sneaking in the tall grass looking for the right trade.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1120989]SS, just admit that you gave special favors to SM for inside information (none of us will tweet about it, promise).[/quote]

LOL!!!


"Step into my cave Scot, make yourself comfortable"

Back to the cave

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120995]"Step into my cave Scot, make yourself comfortable"[/quote]

SmootSmack interviewing Scot McC ....

[IMG]http://blogu.lu/matilda/files/2010/11/pedo.png[/IMG]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1120995]LOL!!!


"Step into my cave Scot, make yourself comfortable"

Back to the cave[/quote]

Would you care to try some of my toilet wine?

Oh, uh, I'll pass. But thank you.

Oh. You should... definitely drink this toilet wine. It'll make everything much easier.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=calia;1120967]That's true. We've really had some horrible drafts in recent years. Hard to recall the last one that led to multiple starters who lasted for more than a few years. 2000?[/quote]

2004 - sean taylor and chris cooley. (only 4 picks that year)

in 2002 and 2006 we had good day 2s (round 5-7) hitting 3+ depth players that stayed on quite a while, but the lack of high picks over the last 15 years has really been terrible as far as having enough picks to call drafts as a success.