Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=MTK;1171688]Or he's just content maximizing his value with the tags and seeing how the market gauges his value next year. That seems to be the most likely answer to me. If he truly wanted out he could have not signed his tags and forced the team to trade him.[/quote]

You got injury risk and a performance risk, which to me was a slight drop off from 2015. You keep rolling the dice, you could crap out. Just saying.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1171689]You got injury risk and a performance risk, which to me was a slight drop off from 2015. You keep rolling the dice, you could crap out. Just saying.[/QUOTE]


That's definitely the risk, injury more than performance if you ask me. I don't see his play declining dramatically enough to hurt him.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171689]You got injury risk and a performance risk, which to me was a slight drop off from 2015. You keep rolling the dice, you could crap out. Just saying.[/quote]

There's always a chance risk of injury, and there's always a chance Cousins has a bad season. However, I think even despite that, he'd get suitors willing to pay him.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/18/kirk-cousins-needed-more-time-to-make-long-term-decision-with-team/]Kirk Cousins: Needed more time to make long-term decision with team | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Im calling bullshit on Kurt's statement...

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

I think he just wants a team to commit to him and show him the love. If that's the Redskins then he'll happily take it. But that would take a major shift in behavior from the front office.

But Matty's right, what's done is done and all we can do now is focus on this season. I like how the defense is improved and I could see a good season coming as long as the offense figures out how to keep it rolling with the changes at receiver. I like our chances for a good year, actually. 16 games (plus playoffs?) is an eternity in the NFL, it's plenty of time things to turn positively between the Skins and Cousins. It's also plenty of time for things to sour, but I'm a glass half full guy.

Better running game, better defensive front, better red zone play? 10-6 is quite possible in my mind.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171692][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/18/kirk-cousins-needed-more-time-to-make-long-term-decision-with-team/]Kirk Cousins: Needed more time to make long-term decision with team | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Im calling bullshit on Kurt's statement...[/quote]

It was definitely a 'let me keep my options open' kind of move, no matter how he frames it.

Whether that's because he wants out, or because he wants Allen out, or because he wants to test the waters with Gruden as playcaller first, or because anything...

He didn't want to get married at this point. If he doesn't want out, he at least needs some convincing that DC is the place for him.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1171670]I disagree.

(wow, did I really start a post disagreeing with The Schneed? How crazy am I?)

I can't imagine that a NFL player can hate a team he's been very successful on (and a city where his child's going to be born) to a point where he'd turn down millions of dollars he'd accept from another team. KC doesn't seem to be an irrational guy.

By the way, the optimistics we both were thought the deal would get done at a lot more guaranteed money than 53 M! I said 65, you said "Saturday, 5 years, $25M per, [B]$75M guaranteed[/B]."

So to me this is just numbers. The offer wasn't high enough... He wants to see if the market says he's worth more.

My best hope is that we transition tag him, and match any offer made, so the Redskins would save face and be in a position to say "we didn't overpay him, it's the market price"...

But the BA's statement may very well be throwing KC under the bus to a point of no return...[/quote]

The transition tag amount is high, but not too too bad, I'm just worried a team will front load a contract or put some poison pills in there where there's just no way we could match it then we lose him for nothing.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

JP Finlay on Twitter:

[QUOTE]Kirk Cousins again says it's not about $$. "If it was the case we would have sent a counter offer that was extremely high." Interesting.[/QUOTE]

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

More from JP:

[quote]Kirk Cousins on #Redskins offer: "If the best we can get is a 2 year deal I might as well just keep playing on one year deals"[/quote]

[quote]Cousins on talks w #Redskins "Everything is trending in the right direction." Dude is pure class.[/quote]

[quote]Cousins, “We all as players would love to see more guarantees...We'll never find out if a player doesn’t try."[/quote]

So it's the guaranteed money. He wants to take it way higher, obvious he thinks the low guarantees favor NFL teams. It's not that he wants to be the highest paid, it's that he wants more safety.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171689]You got injury risk and a performance risk, which to me was a slight drop off from 2015. You keep rolling the dice, you could crap out. Just saying.[/quote]

Kirk has 43 million reasons ($$) not to worry about that. He is gambling with house money.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Schneed10;1171697]More from JP:







So it's the guaranteed money. He wants to take it way higher, obvious he thinks the low guarantees favor NFL teams. It's not that he wants to be the highest paid, it's that he wants more safety.[/quote]

Welp, he already has about $43M in guarantees. This could be a move that chances the course of history in terms of how contracts are negotiated in the NFL.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Be where I'm wanted, oh geez, this is the NFL. Not the Pro Baking League. Every player in pro sports is "wanted" as long as they're useful to the team in some way. Not a day more. Cousins wants to be paid based on leverage, not actual place in the NFL QB pecking order. A slightly above average qb should not be highest played payer in NFL. Plus there is s salary cap and we have 52 other guys to worry about.

That being said, is it too early to promote Doug Williams to Team President? 1 month sounds reasonable. With Allen here, this situation will not be resolved in any way besided shittily (new word). He is a petulant man. The dude really is Smithers personified. He needs to go. But Mr. Burns loves having his patsy around. What a mess.

Seems like a lose lose for us. We give him the world and lose other players or get rid of him and get bombed from coast to coast.

If Allen is staying, Cousins should be traded. If he's gone, you get one more run before the draft to negotiate.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

if you want to be here, you tell your agent to send a counter offer and make it happen. ESPECIALLY if it "aint about money."

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171703]if you want to be here, you tell your agent to send a counter offer and make it happen. ESPECIALLY if it "aint about money."[/quote]

Believe me, it's always about money. Even when it's not.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Would he take 5 years for a 100 million all guaranteed? He gets lots of guaranteed cash and we keep salary cap space. With QBs I don't have a problem with lots of guaranteed money as there's a lot less chance of catastrophic injury.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

I've never seen one man dominate another man so much in a negotation/debate. Allen is getting embarrassed.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

I looks like Kirk is on a mission to bring fully guaranteed contracts to the NFL. The NBA players already have it. That's why you have ridiculous NBA contracts like the one Otto Porter just signed with the Wizards.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

I truly believe that this isn't about money anymore. KC is already a wealthy man and is set for life. He's got 44 million and at least 28 next year. I really believe that he wants to see where this team is headed. He's probably the only NFL player that I can remember that's comfortable playing on one year deals.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1171706]I've never seen one man dominate another man so much in a negotation/debate. Allen is getting embarrassed.[/quote]

Yeah but Allen really has no one to blame but himself. HE made the mistake of not wrapping Cousins up after 2015.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Only the Redskins can fuck up a situation as bad as this and with Allen in charge it won't get any better.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171692][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/18/kirk-cousins-needed-more-time-to-make-long-term-decision-with-team/]Kirk Cousins: Needed more time to make long-term decision with team | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Im calling bullshit on Kurt's statement...[/quote]

He acknowledged that he didn't ever send a counter offer. IMO that leaves the team with no options but to wait till next year.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1171708]I truly believe that this isn't about money anymore. KC is already a wealthy man and is set for life. He's got 44 million and at least 28 next year. I really believe that he wants to see where this team is headed. He's probably the only NFL player that I can remember that's [B]comfortable playing on one year deals[/B].[/quote]

I think it effects the way he plays.

Approaching the mid point of the season last year, Kirk was going to smash the record for fewest sacks per drop back. He even said while sacks arent necessarily a good thing, his sack/drop back ratio was not a good stat and getting sacked a few times a game isnt a bad thing bc it shows you are taking chances to get the big plays and big plays swing games. He and the coaching staff were working on him trying to extend plays. To his credit I think he did start to hang tougher in the pocket after that.

Delicate balance of knowing when to try and extend plays vs avoiding a sack/negative play.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Chico23231;1171703]if you want to be here, you tell your agent to send a counter offer and make it happen. ESPECIALLY if it "aint about money."[/quote]

I agree. I do not think he necessarily does NOT want to be here either.

He (rightfully so) needs to feel out where this organization is headed. With turnover at the GM, losing your OC, and a fresh breed of wide-outs (in addition to new DC), the team is in transition. Bruce Allen, Doug Williams, are these the guys KC wants to be married to for the next 5 years?

I think the same way the team wanted to see more of KC's stability and growth, KC wants to feel out the team for another year. I mean seriously, do you trust where this team is going? I sure as hell don't. If it were me I'd love to have a get the hell out options if shit hits the fan.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1171707]I looks like Kirk is on a mission to bring fully guaranteed contracts to the NFL. The NBA players already have it. That's why you have ridiculous NBA contracts like the one Otto Porter just signed with the Wizards.[/quote]

Well, hey, maybe if Cousins is successful in bringing NBA-like contracts to the NFL, it will price Dan Snyder out of the ability to pay those contracts and he'll be forced to sell the team. (A man can only dream!)

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=RobH4413;1171714]I agree. I do not think he necessarily does NOT want to be here either.

He (rightfully so) needs to feel out where this organization is headed. With turnover at the GM, losing your OC, and a fresh breed of wide-outs (in addition to new DC), the team is in transition. Bruce Allen, Doug Williams, are these the guys KC wants to be married to for the next 5 years?

I think the same way the team wanted to see more of KC's stability and growth, KC wants to feel out the team for another year. I mean seriously, do you trust where this team is going? I sure as hell don't. If it were me I'd love to have a get the hell out options if shit hits the fan.[/quote]

Besides the qb fiasco now, what other part of the team are you not confident about? We have one of the best lines in football, one of the best slot receivers in football, the best tight end in football, and we made huge improvements on defense this off season including adding some young guys that will be with us for at least a few seasons. If Cousins was signed we'd 100% be heading in the right direction.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=metalskins;1171704]Believe me, it's always about money. Even when it's not.[/quote]

When he says it's not about the money, he means it's not about the total contract value or the average $ per year. To him, it's about the guaranteed safety net. He wants much more guaranteed.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Schneed10;1171717]When he says it's not about the money, he means it's not about the total contract value or the average $ per year. To him, it's about the guaranteed safety net. He wants much more guaranteed.[/quote]

Understood. Cousins is not a dumb guy. We've seen players in the past sign mega deals that, in the end, they might have received a quarter of that contract, either because of injury, failure to reach incentives, or whatever.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Schneed10;1171717]When he says it's not about the money, he means it's not about the total contract value or the average $ per year. To him, it's about the guaranteed safety net. He wants much more guaranteed.[/quote]

sorry - $73Mill guaranteed for injury. No counter offer. He wanted to get to the open market. He said that in February, and it has not changed.

I firmly believe there wasn't a "reasonable" offer the Skins could have made that he would have signed.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Well, all I can say is, I hope you guys didn't throw away your RGIII jerseys! j/k

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1171719]sorry - $73Mill guaranteed for injury. No counter offer. He wanted to get to the open market. He said that in February, and it has not changed.



I firmly believe there wasn't a "reasonable" offer the Skins could have made that he would have signed.[/QUOTE]


Guaranteed for injury isn't the same as fully guaranteed money. He would have been dumb to sign that deal as offered.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=MTK;1171673]Bush league move by the team releasing details about their offer and basically trying to turn the fans against Cousins. I won't blame him at all if he walks next year.[/quote]


It was pretty terrible. However, if "Kurt" walks and goes and lights it up somewhere else, Bruce Allen will be out of a job. He has to be at that point.

It's not a very smart tactic and it hasn't worked so far.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1171725]It was pretty terrible. However, if "Kurt" walks and goes and lights it up somewhere else, Bruce Allen will be out of a job. He has to be at that point.



It's not a very smart tactic and it hasn't worked so far.[/QUOTE]


It was just childish and petty.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Cousins side is playing in perfectly in regards to business, in regards to the rest of the players and coaches that are on this team this season, he's screwing them a bit. His side won't even say exactly what they want, just state vague generic things. And the Skins franchise will never get benefit of doubt, deservedly so, so he gets no blame and Skins get all of it. Gonna be a distraction for all 53 players all season long. Can't help with winning football games.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=MTK;1171723]Guaranteed for injury isn't the same as fully guaranteed money. He would have been dumb to sign that deal as offered.[/quote]

Would he have been dumb to sign David Carr's extension? 12.5 signing bonus, but it's essentially a 2 year contract. After that 2nd year, they can cut him without a hug cap hit. That said, only 40million of it is "fully" guaranteed. SOunds to me that Kirk with 2 guaranteed years at 55mil (tag + 29mil) is a better deal than Carr's.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

Two words for all of you pro-KC posters: Joe Flacco.

At least he led them to a Super Bowl before he got his big pay-day. Since then, the Ravens have had to let good players go (and not sign top players) to pay for that giant contract. Ask any Ravens fan how happy they are with that deal and the vast majority will say 'No way'.

Based on KC's own words, his side was NEVER interested in negotiating this off-season, period. Not just the FO being stubborn. Takes 2 to tango and KC wants to see what he will get on the open market. Unless he improves his red-zone decisions as well as stops throwing those INTs when he gets pressure, he will be sadly disappointed.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=MTK;1171723]Guaranteed for injury isn't the same as fully guaranteed money. He would have been dumb to sign that deal as offered.[/quote]

I agree with this. What Cousins was offered in relation to other QB deals is irrelevant. What matters is his opportunity cost.

If he can get $24M under this franchise tag, and $34M under next year's franchise tag (combined $58M), why would he take an offer with only $53M that gives up control for six years?

It's not about the pay relative to other QBs. He's basically taking this position:

- NFL players don't get enough guaranteed money

- the only way I'll relinquish control of my future and sign for a LTD is if you guarantee a major portion of it

- since I am pretty confident you'll franchise me again next year, I can get $58M over the next two seasons. Maybe you won't, but I'm betting on myself. So if I think $58M guaranteed for two years is feasible, then...

- you need to drastically increase the guarantees. It's not about the money, I don't care about being the highest paid QB. But I want most of my contract guaranteed.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=btfoom;1171729]Two words for all of you pro-KC posters: Joe Flacco.

At least he led them to a Super Bowl before he got his big pay-day. Since then, the Ravens have had to let good players go (and not sign top players) to pay for that giant contract. Ask any Ravens fan how happy they are with that deal and the vast majority will say 'No way'.

Based on KC's own words, his side was NEVER interested in negotiating this off-season, period. Not just the FO being stubborn. Takes 2 to tango and KC wants to see what he will get on the open market. Unless he improves his red-zone decisions as well as stops throwing those INTs when he gets pressure, he will be sadly disappointed.[/quote]

Two words for you: Snyder and Smithers. If I have to pick sides; either Snyder and Smithers or Kirk Cousins, I'll take Kirk's side.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Schneed10;1171730]I agree with this. What Cousins was offered in relation to other QB deals is irrelevant. What matters is his opportunity cost.

If he can get $24M under this franchise tag, and $34M under next year's franchise tag (combined $58M), why would he take an offer with only $53M that gives up control for six years?

It's not about the pay relative to other QBs. He's basically taking this position:

- NFL players don't get enough guaranteed money

- the only way I'll relinquish control of my future and sign for a LTD is if you guarantee a major portion of it

- since I am pretty confident you'll franchise me again next year, I can get $58M over the next two seasons. Maybe you won't, but I'm betting on myself. So if I think $58M guaranteed for two years is feasible, then...

- you need to drastically increase the guarantees. It's not about the money, I don't care about being the highest paid QB. But I want most of my contract guaranteed.[/quote]


This makes a lot of sense. The only thing I can see that would blow up in Kirk Cousins' face is if the Redskins allow him to test the waters of free agency, and he realizes that everybody else who wants him is willing to offer a mega deal with, relatively, the same guarantees that Washington was going to give him. Then, is it still about the security, or is it about the money?

I definitely see what Cousins is doing, and I don't blame him. You do want as much guarantee as you possibly can. If he signs another franchise tag at $34M next year, then he'll have made almost $80M in guaranteed money in three years. That dude is going to be Rockefeller by the time it's all said and done.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=Schneed10;1171730] It's not about the money, I don't care about being the highest paid QB. But I want most of my contract guaranteed.[/quote]

Even Andrew Luck's is only fully guaranteed for 44 million. (granted his signing bonus was huge) He isn't going to get 70mil in fully guaranteed money. That isn't even going to happen on the open market.

Re: Cousins 3.0, he's going to sign the franchise tag
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1171733]Even Andrew Luck's is only fully guaranteed for 44 million. (granted his signing bonus was huge) He isn't going to get 70mil in fully guaranteed money. That isn't even going to happen on the open market.[/quote]

Yes it absolutely will. There are tons of articles pointing to the likelihood of guaranteed money going through the roof if he hits the open market.

Do you understand supply and demand? There are about 15 QBs in the NFL who you could see contending for a Super Bowl title. There are 32 teams in the NFL.