Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

What I don't want people to think is that I'm saying we shouldn't sign Cousins. I still lean towards that being our best option.

I'm just acknowledging that I don't like either of our options. Whether you sign him, or whether you let him walk, I don't think we're contending for a SB title anytime soon.

If we go with Cousins we're guaranteed to be outclassed at the QB position if we're able to make it deeper into the playoffs. We're outclassed by Wentz, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees in the NFC. We probably go toe to toe with Ryan and Cam.

And if we let him walk, then we may not see an even capable one come along for ten years.

I'm not saying he's not our best option, I'm just saying our options fucking suck and it's depressing. I have to keep it real.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1184909]I don't think the dropoff from Kirk to Colt is drastic. My thing w/ Colt is he hasn't played in years and is he durable?[/quote]

Colt can't finish a 16 game schedule. He will get hurt.

I would have agreed with your first statement 2 years ago but kirk has really developed as a QB and his understanding of the game has improved dramatically since then.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

And jury's out on Jimmy G, Goff, and Winston.

I'd take Cousins over those guys right now, but ask me this time next year and I may feel differently.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

And I get the discussion around Colt as an option but it's important not to hone in on that as the only option. If Cousins leaves remember that Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford, and Tyrod Taylor are all in play. Not to mention rookies.

It doesn't have to be Colt or bust. If we don't have Cousins, it should be Colt plus one of those vets, or Colt plus a 1st round rookie.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184927]And jury's out on Jimmy G, Goff, and Winston.

I'd take Cousins over those guys right now, but ask me this time next year and I may feel differently.[/quote]

Jimmy G won't be Tom Brady and SF fans are crazy if they think he is.

Winston isn't accurate at all, he's a better version of Dak but that is it.

Goff is good

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Folks seem to think Denver could go after Kirk, I find it interesting with the 5th overall pick that Denver would think that Cousins would be the guy. IF they are correct then Redskins need to think hard about who they would pick with 13th pick two replace Cousins. With the 5th pick you would think a top QB would be there. Could it be possible that other teams know more than the Redskins do..Im not sure that whatever we do will be the right move.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184928]And I get the discussion around Colt as an option but it's important not to hone in on that as the only option. If Cousins leaves remember that Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford, and Tyrod Taylor are all in play. Not to mention rookies.

It doesn't have to be Colt or bust. If we don't have Cousins, it should be Colt plus one of those vets, or Colt plus a 1st round rookie.[/quote]

I dont see MIN letting Keenum walk, Sam yes. That list sucks tho, I'd rather draft a rookie and just play him

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1184930]Folks seem to think Denver could go after Kirk, I find it interesting with the 5th overall pick that Denver would think that Cousins would be the guy. IF they are correct then Redskins need to think hard about who they would pick with 13th pick two replace Cousins. With the 5th pick you would think a top QB would be there. Could it be possible that other teams know more than the Redskins do..Im not sure that whatever we do will be the right move.[/quote]

Elway wants to win now and so he needs a proven QB, he tried that with Lynch and he stinks.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184925]What I don't want people to think is that I'm saying we shouldn't sign Cousins. I still lean towards that being our best option.

[B]I'm just acknowledging that I don't like either of our options. Whether you sign him, or whether you let him walk, I don't think we're contending for a SB title anytime soon.[/B]
If we go with Cousins we're guaranteed to be outclassed at the QB position if we're able to make it deeper into the playoffs. We're outclassed by Wentz, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees in the NFC. We probably go toe to toe with Ryan and Cam.

And if we let him walk, then we may not see an even capable one come along for ten years.

I'm not saying he's not our best option, I'm just saying our options fucking suck and it's depressing. I have to keep it real.[/quote]

Things change quick in the NFL. Eagles, Rams, etc.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I don't know what else he needs to prove. KC has been consistent and playing a a high level for 3 years. Has not missed a start since taking over.

Show me any other QB that puts up over 4k yards and 27 TD's [I]after[/I] losing his offensive coordinator and two 1,000 yard receivers in the same year. Tough task.

If there is a Free Agent QB out there that in 3 years has averaged 4,400 yards, 27 TDs to 12 INTs with a 66% comp and a rating of 94, the front office would go after that guy in free agency. And that is what KC has done since becoming the full time starter.

I am not saying that he is in the same conversation with Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben. But he has earned his shot to be in the conversation on the next tier.

Question is, when (not if) KC walks, who you gonna get? And in free agency, I would take Cousins over Alex Smith.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1184933]Things change quick in the NFL. Eagles, Rams, etc.[/quote]

OK well think that through. With the Eagles, how did their fortunes change?

They had Nick Foles become a failure as their starting QB once the league adapted to Chip Kelly. They traded up twice to jump up to number 2 and draft Wentz. Simultaneously they changed head coaches. Bam, instant turnaround.

The Rams were mired in mediocrity under Fisher and then traded up to #1 to get Goff, and the next year changed head coaches, who unlocked the potential in Goff. Bam, instant turnaround.

So let's be clear, if you want things to change quickly in the NFL, you need to take action and make it change. Sticking with Gruden and Cousins would be the antithesis of following the Rams / Eagles approach.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I agree with a lot of the sentiment being posted, namely:

1. Kirk is the best option right now at the right price.
2. Kirk isn't "worth" being the highest paid player, but because of how they've handled his contract for 3 years, that's what it will take.
3. Building a super bowl contending team around cousins when he takes such a big chunk of the cap will be extremely difficult.
4. Losing him will almost certainly mean a step back in the short term.

Ultimately, what is debatable here is which is more likely to lead to a super bowl run, signing him and possibly crippling your team or letting him go and start over at QB but have cap room to bring in and or keep talented players.

As Schneed said, both these options suck.

Emotionally and Rationally I keep going back and forth. I like Cousins, but he's flawed. He's a very good QB and the best we've had, but he's not elite. He's not worth the highest paid contract, but is the best option we have. Want to know where someone's going ask where they've been, but failure is often a good indicator of future success.

There is no good way to determine which is the right decision. Only time will tell. I'm glad I'm not Jay Gruden right now, this decision will make or break his career in Washington and there is no default option anymore.

Now, I've heard a bit about the option of franchising and trading him, if that is a viable option, a first rounder would certainly take some of the sting out of losing him, but nothing ever works out that nearly for the Redskins.

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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1184934]I don't know what else he needs to prove. KC has been consistent and playing a a high level for 3 years. Has not missed a start since taking over.

Show me any other QB that puts up over 4k yards and 27 TD's [I]after[/I] losing his offensive coordinator and two 1,000 yard receivers in the same year. Tough task.

If there is a Free Agent QB out there that in 3 years has averaged 4,400 yards, 27 TDs to 12 INTs with a 66% comp and a rating of 94, the front office would go after that guy in free agency. And that is what KC has done since becoming the full time starter.

I am not saying that he is in the same conversation with Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben. But he has earned his shot to be in the conversation on the next tier.

Question is, when (not if) KC walks, who you gonna get? And in free agency, I would take Cousins over Alex Smith.[/quote]



Kirk gets that Romo respect or lack there of a lot. Both very good QB's but didn't perform well in crucial games, I'd take the consistent 25 tds and 4000 yards over a flashy 1 or 2 year run as we've seen here first hand.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

I wonder what the narrative would be right now if we didn’t have all the injuries, finished 10-6 or 11-5 and went on to win a playoff game.

The only thing I didn’t like about Gruden’s take on Cousins was he seemed to be hanging the 7-9 record squarely on him.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184944]I wonder what the narrative would be right now if we didn’t have all the injuries, finished 10-6 or 11-5 and went on to win a playoff game.

The only thing I didn’t like about Gruden’s take on Cousins was he seemed to be hanging the 7-9 record squarely on him.[/quote]

extremely telling last sentence or two with his answer.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

One thing is for certain...more drama with this subject this offseason. The only way we could have more drama is if someone on twitter who lives on Pennsylvania Ave would comment about this situation. G1's homie

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184944]I wonder what the narrative would be right now if we didn’t have all the injuries, finished 10-6 or 11-5 and went on to win a playoff game.

The only thing I didn’t like about Gruden’s take on Cousins was he seemed to be hanging the 7-9 record squarely on him.[/quote]

I liked that line because it was honest. I didn't interpret it as laying the responsibility for the entire record at Cousins's feet, because he did in the same answer say that injuries played a big role. But yeah, I mean wasn't Cousins the primary culprit for the Week 17 loss to the Giants and a huge contributor to the shit burger we laid against the Chargers?

He was also a major contributor to several of our wins.

But Gruden's right, he was good, but we were only 7-9 and he needs to be better.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184944]I wonder what the narrative would be right now if we didn’t have all the injuries, finished 10-6 or 11-5 and went on to win a playoff game.

The only thing I didn’t like about Gruden’s take on Cousins was he seemed to be hanging the 7-9 record squarely on him.[/quote]

That's what I was thinking, It's like Jay used Kirk as his scapegoat because He may know KC wont be back... We'll see

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1184947]I liked that line because it was honest. I didn't interpret it as laying the responsibility for the entire record at Cousins's feet, because he did in the same answer say that injuries played a big role. But yeah, I mean wasn't Cousins the primary culprit for the Week 17 loss to the Giants and a huge contributor to the shit burger we laid against the Chargers?

He was also a major contributor to several of our wins.

But Gruden's right, he was good, but we were only 7-9 and he needs to be better.[/quote]

Great point. Agree.

Additionally, He was being asked about Kirk right after the worst game of his career. He could not get up and be a cheerleader and maintain any sort of credibility.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

He wouldn’t have been lying though if he said Kirk had a heck of a season given the circumstances.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Great article by Keim:

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35265/jay-grudens-comments-reveals-redskins-dilemma-with-kirk-cousins]Jay Gruden's comments reveals Redskins' dilemma with Kirk Cousins - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184951]He wouldn’t have been lying though if he said Kirk had a heck of a season given the circumstances.[/quote]

Agreed.

My feeling is Kirk is gone. Hate it but I'm not seeing any signs of things going in the direction of him staying.

Maybe Jay is doing business out there and doesn't want to give Kirk anymore leverage than he already has.
But he could have been more emphatic about him and still be accurate and fair... And he's HC, not GM.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1184953]Agreed.

My feeling is Kirk is gone. Hate it but I'm not seeing any signs of things going in the direction of him staying.

Maybe Jay is doing business out there and doesn't want to give Kirk anymore leverage than he already has.
But he could have been more emphatic about him and still be accurate and fair... And he's HC, not GM.[/quote]

Same here, why would a HC say "we're 7-9, hard to say he did great" Cmon man, we aren't fooled, the skins dont want to pay KC 30M a year for the next 6 years. Just admit it and move on

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184954]Same here, why would a HC say "we're 7-9, hard to say he did great" Cmon man, we aren't fooled, the skins dont want to pay KC 30M a year for the next 6 years. Just admit it and move on[/quote]

I agree.
I like KC and wish he could be our QB of the future but not at $30M per.
But I blame our FO and ownership for us being in this impossible contractual position with Cousins.
We knew 4 to 5 years ago that the salary cap was going up each year by amounts we have never before seen. Yet they did not offer Cousins an agreeable contract and told him to prove himself.

Add now - our Head Coach is publicly spinning the narrative to justify KC's possible departure by bringing up the 7-9 record. That is classless.
Gruden just shut up. You are no prize.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1184955]I agree.
I like KC and wish he could be our QB of the future but not at $30M per.
But I blame our FO and ownership for us being in this impossible contractual position with Cousins.
We knew 4 to 5 years ago that the salary cap was going up each year by amounts we have never before seen. Yet they did not offer Cousins an agreeable contract and told him to prove himself.

Add now - our Head Coach is publicly spinning the narrative to justify KC's possible departure by bringing up the 7-9 record. That is classless.
Gruden just shut up. You are no prize.[/quote]

Yep

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1184955]I agree.
I like KC and wish he could be our QB of the future but not at $30M per.
But I blame our FO and ownership for us being in this impossible contractual position with Cousins.
We knew 4 to 5 years ago that the salary cap was going up each year by amounts we have never before seen. Yet they did not offer Cousins an agreeable contract and told him to prove himself.

Add now - [B]our Head Coach is publicly spinning the narrative to justify KC's possible departure by bringing up the 7-9 record[/B]. That is classless.
Gruden just shut up. You are no prize.[/quote]

Not as classless as Bruce's statement from last year. But still pretty cheap.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184924]RG3 is available and I saw his video of basketball, dude is ready[/quote]

lol

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1184955]I agree.
I like KC and wish he could be our QB of the future but not at $30M per.
But I blame our FO and ownership for us being in this impossible contractual position with Cousins.
We knew 4 to 5 years ago that the salary cap was going up each year by amounts we have never before seen. Yet they did not offer Cousins an agreeable contract and told him to prove himself.

Add now - our Head Coach is publicly spinning the narrative to justify KC's possible departure by bringing up the 7-9 record. That is classless.
Gruden just shut up. You are no prize.[/quote]

Probably wouldn't have said a word if the skins went 8-8.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=metalskins;1184959]Probably wouldn't have said a word if the skins went 8-8.[/quote]

Don't know if it's 100% true, but I agree, this is why I've said all along that this game mattered.
Cooley and Kevin where laughing today about how insignificant this game was. I disagree. At least from a PR standpoint, it changes a lot.

Probably won't change the outcome of the negotiation.
But how nice would it have been to be 100% sure there was a legit push to make him sign a LTD ?

Now it already feels like they won't even really try...

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000902297/article/elway-broncos-no-1-goal-is-to-upgrade-qb-position]Elway: Broncos' No. 1 goal is to upgrade QB position - NFL.com[/url]

Kirk the 3 years as a starter for us.

81 TD passes
36 Ints

13 Rush Tds
11 Fumbles lost

13,176 passing yards..

Yeah I can see why Denver wants him

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2018/01/02/examining-the-redskins-top-quarterback-options-if-kirk-cousins-leaves/?utm_term=.085351b1f7a7[/url]

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184962][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2018/01/02/examining-the-redskins-top-quarterback-options-if-kirk-cousins-leaves/?utm_term=.085351b1f7a7[/url][/quote]

Good read.

I hadn't thought about it, but I think I'd be ok with us signing Bridgewater.

Haven't seen him play a ton, but a young promising guy, proven starter, not Aaron Rodgers but good first 2 seasons, looking for a second chance after a tough injury... What do you guys think?

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1184963]Good read.

I hadn't thought about it, but I think I'd be ok with us signing Bridgewater.

Haven't seen him play a ton, but a young promising guy, proven starter, not Aaron Rodgers but good first 2 seasons, looking for a second chance after a tough injury... What do you guys think?[/quote]

There's a strong possibility that Alex Smith is out in KC after this year, and there's no way Minnesota is keeping all three quarterbacks. I would make a strong run for Alex Smith if KC does give him an out, and if not Smith, I would take Bridgewater. Teddy would be a gamble - only because there is so much uncertainty with that injury, but he could prove to be a steal.

Either way, I'd probably still draft a quarterback, maybe in the third round or something like that, just for insurance sake. The more I think about this, the more I think there is life after Cousins, but the 'skins need to be diligent and not sit on their hands. Either make a move for Cousins or cut him loose and make a strong run for the other quarterbacks, just don't play the waiting game, because it's a losing game for them if they do.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1184961][URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000902297/article/elway-broncos-no-1-goal-is-to-upgrade-qb-position"]Elway: Broncos' No. 1 goal is to upgrade QB position - NFL.com[/URL]

Kirk the 3 years as a starter for us.

81 TD passes
36 Ints

13 Rush Tds
11 Fumbles lost

13,176 passing yards..

Yeah I can see why Denver wants him[/quote]

The rest of that team is ready to win now, it's easy to see why Denver wants him. Elway doesn't wanna wait another 2-3 years for Lynch to grow. Unfortunately we're not in the same position, even if we bring Kirk back there's still plenty of room for improvement elsewhere, which is why this is a dilemma in the first place. I agree with everyone else, no way we want Kirk at 30 mil per, and I'm not sure I see him settling for less. He walks.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1184886]It’s just funny that for a team that’s been QB starved for decades, some fans are so ready to move on from one that has played at a pretty high level.

It’s like someone who’s lived in a dumpy one bedroom apartment their whole life and they have the chance to upgrade to a nice 3 bedroom townhouse and they say eh, not the mansion I was looking for, I’ll pass.[/QUOTE]



This


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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;1184934]I don't know what else he needs to prove. KC has been consistent and playing a a high level for 3 years. Has not missed a start since taking over.



Show me any other QB that puts up over 4k yards and 27 TD's [I]after[/I] losing his offensive coordinator and two 1,000 yard receivers in the same year. Tough task.



If there is a Free Agent QB out there that in 3 years has averaged 4,400 yards, 27 TDs to 12 INTs with a 66% comp and a rating of 94, the front office would go after that guy in free agency. And that is what KC has done since becoming the full time starter.



I am not saying that he is in the same conversation with Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben. But he has earned his shot to be in the conversation on the next tier.



Question is, when (not if) KC walks, who you gonna get? And in free agency, I would take Cousins over Alex Smith.[/QUOTE]



It’s because us fans are so spoiled with the great QB play we have witnessed the last 20 years before Kirk.


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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Teddy won't be let go, only Sam Bradford will. Alex Smith is the only true option outside of the draft.

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Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1184963]Good read.



I hadn't thought about it, but I think I'd be ok with us signing Bridgewater.



Haven't seen him play a ton, but a young promising guy, proven starter, not Aaron Rodgers but good first 2 seasons, looking for a second chance after a tough injury... What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]


Meh for me on Bridgewater, lanky RG3 frame, durability a concern. Limited arm strength. I don’t get the hype.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

[quote=MTK;1184972]Meh for me on Bridgewater, lanky RG3 frame, durability a concern. Limited arm strength. I don’t get the hype.[/quote]

Teddy is a back half QB. We would be going from a top 10 to 20 or 25. No thank you.

Alex Smith and Case Keenum are the only options and they are a step back to KC.

KC is not going any where. The only question is how much is it going to cost us, today's over payment is tomorrows bargain. They could make him the highest paid QB tomorrow and then Rodgers or the next QB deal will pass him. Sign a today tier "15 or 20" RB and we are a 10 - 12 win team. We went 7 - 9 with 20 players on IR. Starting WR, TE, RB, 3rd down back, LT, LG, C, and 3 string RB. This does not include all defensive players. The year sucked and we blew few and won a few we should not. Next year will be better if we sign KC.

Re: Cousins Saga 4.0. Is he done in DC?
 

Whatever the FO does I hope the plan is legit and they don't shit all over themselves just for the fun of it.