Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Why is anyone opposed to trading a 2nd rounder for Jackson? Would you rather have a 2nd round receiver in next years draft? We've already got two of those on our team and if either of them were anything special, we wouldn't even be talking about Jackson. I'd gladly give up next years second and a lower 2012 pick for Jackson. The 2011 draft is going to be one of the weakest in recent memory. Guys will go in the late first next year who would have gone in the third this year. Screw 2011 draft picks if we can land young proven players now.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

^ But it would be nice to use the secondround pick on something other than a WR. We are going to have to get younger at other positions as well. MLB, CB, QB these are all positions that could use an influx of youth next April.

Of course Vincent is a nice piece to have, but I just can't get behind trading away the middle of the draft anymore. Show me that this stuff works for a couple of years and I might change my mind. I do trust BA and MS though. If they want him, and feel he is nessecesary I will cheer my ass off come September for him. Well the end of September that is.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;712220[B]Why is anyone opposed to trading a 2nd rounder for Jackson? Would you rather have a 2nd round receiver in next years draft[/B]? We've already got two of those on our team and if either of them were anything special, we wouldn't even be talking about Jackson. I'd gladly give up next years second and a lower 2012 pick for Jackson. The 2011 draft is going to be one of the weakest in recent memory. Guys will go in the late first next year who would have gone in the third this year. Screw 2011 draft picks if we can land young proven players now.[/quote]


Exactly,
I don't want to give up a second...although I have NO logical reason why..... other than I would like to draft.....someone in that spot

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[url=http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/07/report-chargers-vincent-jackson-suspended-by-nfl-for-three-games-/1]Chargers' Vincent Jackson suspended by NFL for three games - The Huddle: Football News from the NFL - USATODAY.com[/url]

A 3-gamer. So we can all agree this devalues him assuredly right? It may even take him of our radar if we really are in win now mode.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

If this indicative of his.....personality, he is...leaving my radar
EDIT...2nd DUI. May well be another problem is showing its ugly face?

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

I mentioned this in an earlier post and people blew by it.

Why is his value so much higher than Santonio Holmes? Problem child, play maker...

2nd DUI and a driving under suspension ( on his way to the playoff game the chargers lost ) to dumb to get a ride to the biggest game of the year?

So here we are talking about giving up a 2nd round pick when just 2 months ago a WR was traded with a similar skill set and off the field issues for a fifth rounder. Seems as though the Chargers are asking a little much if a 2nd is what it takes. He isnt Brandon Marshall.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

whatever...I say grab him....he'd help us out big time. hime tana, and DT would be a pretty good trio i'd say...maybe a little MK in the mix.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

but I don't think we will...I think we've had enough low character guys on our team to last us the next 2 decades.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=tootergray34;712248]but I don't think we will...I think we've had enough low character guys on our team to last us the next 2 decades.[/quote]

Shanahan tolerated Brandon Marshall quite well and the duo gave Larry Johnson a chance here.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;712239] Seems as though the Chargers are asking a little much if a 2nd is what it takes. He isnt Brandon Marshall.[/quote]

You're right. He's better.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;712220][B]Why is anyone opposed to trading a 2nd rounder for Jackson?[/B] Would you rather have a 2nd round receiver in next years draft? We've already got two of those on our team and if either of them were anything special, we wouldn't even be talking about Jackson. I'd gladly give up next years second and a lower 2012 pick for Jackson. The 2011 draft is going to be one of the weakest in recent memory. Guys will go in the late first next year who would have gone in the third this year. Screw 2011 draft picks if we can land young proven players now.[/quote]

- The very likely possibility that a cap will once again be implemented. We still have to pay McNabb, Brown, and Trent Williams. Vincent Jackson wants to be paid like Brandon Marshall, when the new cap comes in we'll have very little flexibility. You might see a need at receiver now but we could easily need new LB's (Fletcher) and DL (Daniels/Haynesworth/Kemo is 30+) next offseason.

- The best teams constantly have youth coming in and developing. Building for now is fine but eventually we're going to need to have young, economical talent, that allows us to stay competitive for the long haul. Right now we'd be looking at a draft with no 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks and it very well could be that the defense will need more talent after such an offensively focused offseason. As much as I love Fletch, he isn't going to be around forever.

- Vincent Jackson himself is obviously a problem child. I'll be the first to admit that he's not as bad as Brandon Marshall, but the guy already has a 3 game suspension and again wants the same contract as Marshall. After the Haynesworth drama, I'm in no hurry to add another problem child. Though with Shanahan and Bruce Allen it won't be a surprise if future players come in with above average character concerns.

- Finally, Wide Receiver is a nice to have but by no means a requirement for winning. We already have the same personnel as the Chiefs offense who was ranked no lower then 4th offensively from 2002-2005 (including a 1st place rank in 2004 and 2005) with Eddie Kennison as their best Wide Out.

- In conclusion we have a great offensive mind but a sudden shortage of picks next year. We also face uncertainty with the upcoming CBA and could be in trouble financially with a 4th big money player, especially with a player who is at risk to be suspended on an annual basis.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

I still like the concept of a three team trade, where we trade Haynesworth to a 4-3 AFC team(or seattle) and they send picks to San Diego and we get Jackson.

I really don't want to give up any more picks. [U]Although[/U], with a potential lockout, and a substantially poorer draft pool due to all the juniors that came out this year AND the likely hood that many juniors will not come out due to the possibility of a lockout (remember they declare their intentions in January). Giving up a 2nd next year would not be the end of the world.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;712254]- The very likely possibility that a cap will once again be implemented. We still have to pay McNabb, Brown, and Trent Williams. Vincent Jackson wants to be paid like Brandon Marshall, when the new cap comes in we'll have very little flexibility. You might see a need at receiver now but we could easily need new LB's (Fletcher) and DL (Daniels/Haynesworth/Kemo is 30+) next offseason. [/quote]

I have my doubts that Brown will get an extension. His public statements were diplomatic, but it was obvious he views himself as a left tackle and that’s something he won't be here. Also, where do you get the idea that we'll have so little flexibility when the new cap comes in? As it stands now, we'd be about 30MM UNDER the cap in 2011 (assuming it stayed in line with previous caps) with the players currently under contract… and that assumes we keep Portis, Haynesworth, and Fletcher, who will all have cap hits of 10MM, 10MM, and 8MM, respectively next year (info may be a little outdated). My point is, we've got plenty of room to make some acquistions and we don't have a single #1 receiver on the team now. It’s a dire need.

[quote=Dirtbag359;712254]- The best teams constantly have youth coming in and developing. Building for now is fine but eventually we're going to need to have young, economical talent, that allows us to stay competitive for the long haul. Right now we'd be looking at a draft with no 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks and it very well could be that the defense will need more talent after such an offensively focused offseason. As much as I love Fletch, he isn't going to be around forever. [/quote]

As I stated before, the draft is going to be HORRIBLE next year. Unless we just got lucky, Vincent Jackson would likely perform at a higher level and stay with the team longer than any player selected in the 2nd round in 2011, regardless of positon.

[quote=Dirtbag359;712254]- Vincent Jackson himself is obviously a problem child. I'll be the first to admit that he's not as bad as Brandon Marshall, but the guy already has a 3 game suspension and again wants the same contract as Marshall. After the Haynesworth drama, I'm in no hurry to add another problem child. Though with Shanahan and Bruce Allen it won't be a surprise if future players come in with above average character concerns. [/quote]

I wouldn’t label Jackson as a problem child at all. He's got a 3 game suspension for a DWI. Not to be crass, but its not like he's a thug who's out shooting people or battering/sexually assaulting women. Its not like he's one of those players that’s always making the news for being into something. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a stud #1 WR who we found in the late round of the draft, signed cheap, and who'd be a model citizen his whole career, but lets be honest - guys like that are extremely rare to find and I would rather deal with the issues presented from a guy like Jackson than have the acquisitions of Shanahan, McNabb, Williams and Brown wasted because we didn’t have a receiver on the roster who could consistently get open and make plays. Like it or not, the moves we've already made indicate we're not building a team for the future, but a team that can win now. We can either go "all in" and get a WR who can play at a #1 level for the next 7 years or we can gamble with what we have and risk wasting everything we've done so far. And even if Devin Thomas or Malcom Kelly had a "breakout" season and surprised us all and became a stud #1 WR, we'd have to sign THEM to a huge contract in the next year or two if we wanted to keep them. If you want playmakers, youre going to have to pay them eventually.

[quote=Dirtbag359;712254]- Finally, Wide Receiver is a nice to have but by no means a requirement for winning. We already have the same personnel as the Chiefs offense who was ranked no lower then 4th offensively from 2002-2005 (including a 1st place rank in 2004 and 2005) with Eddie Kennison as their best Wide Out. [/quote]

How manyNFC championships did the Chiefs win during that time period? How many times did they even win the division?

[quote=Dirtbag359;712254]- In conclusion we have a great offensive mind but a sudden shortage of picks next year. We also face uncertainty with the upcoming CBA and could be in trouble financially with a 4th big money player, especially with a player who is at risk to be suspended on an annual basis.[/quote]

I'd argue that we've got a graet offensive mind but a shortage of offensive talent on our team. Other than Cooley, we don't have a single proven playmaker on our offense. We've got a ton of FORMER playmakers, but Cooleys the only one we can reasonably EXPECT to do anything noteworth in 2010. No matter how "brilliant" the younger shanahan may be, he's never had any success as an offensive coordinator without a stud RB and top-tier WR. I don't trust any of the WRs we have on our roster now to successfully and consistently execute on the plays he calls.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;712300]No matter how "brilliant" the younger shanahan may be, [B]he's never had any success as an offensive coordinator without a stud RB and top-tier WR.[/B] I don't trust any of the WRs we have on our roster now to successfully and consistently execute on the plays he calls.[/quote]

ok, this is a pretty good point, the Texas have ANDRE JOHNSON
We do not, we are not even close, no one can play that role currently on our squad. I think the gap between Moss and Johnson is a significant one which may handcuff the success of little shanny's system.

Having the correct pieces to the puzzle are required.
I'd argue that one of the greatest reasons for little shanny's success was due to Andre Johnson...he is arguably their best player and to start with a new team where your greatest strength is a weakness is a problem right out of the gate. I believe this is why many may be ok with trading future picks for a stud WR

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=skinsnut;712362]ok, this is a pretty good point, the Texas have ANDRE JOHNSON
We do not, we are not even close, no one can play that role currently on our squad. I think the gap between Moss and Johnson is a significant one which may handcuff the success of little shanny's system.

Having the correct pieces to the puzzle are required.
I'd argue that one of the greatest reasons for little shanny's success was due to Andre Johnson...he is arguably their best player and to start with a new team where your greatest strength is a weakness is a problem right out of the gate. I believe this is why many may be ok with trading future picks for a stud WR[/quote]

Competent coordinators adjust there scheme to the talent they inherit. I have no doubt Kyle is smart enough to compensate for the crappy receivers we have if they cannot adequately address it this year. Having poor WRs is not as bad as having a poor QB or poor OLmen.