Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;611992]Shaun Suisham wants to know why you're a hater[/quote]In 2007, Todd Collins and Shaun Suisham.

At least Hunter Smith has scored a touchdown.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Soup is done. Whine about him and his effing numbers if you want. He's done. Gone! Just like Jimbo. Packs your bags buddy!

Is it his fault? Does it really effing matter now as far as he's concerned?

The only thing right about this whole situation is that we stopped playing musical chairs with the QB. We played Soup out and he's done. Kaput! Over, Nada, El Zippo.

Get over it.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;612001]Soup is done. Whine about him and his effing numbers if you want. He's done. Gone! Just like Jimbo. Packs your bags buddy!

Is it his fault? Does it really effing matter now as far as he's concerned?

The only thing right about this whole situation is that we stopped playing musical chairs with the QB. We played Soup out and he's done. Kaput! Over, Nada, El Zippo.

Get over it.[/quote]

I think you're confused on what the definition of whining is. I've seen a lot of internet whining in my day, but statistical analysis and critical thinking really doesn't qualify.

Thanks for playing.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dgack;612019]I think you're confused on what the definition of whining is. I've seen a lot of internet whining in my day, but statistical analysis and critical thinking really doesn't qualify.

Thanks for playing.[/quote]

Don't get too upset, that's a typical Trample post. :D

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Bozzy;611867]It really doesn't matter. No QB has a chance with our piss poor O-line. No way to sugarcoat it. The O-Line is garbage. Not one quality player. Campbell or Collins, they don't have time to do anything.

How would Brett Favre be doing behind our line?

It all starts up front.[/quote]

Which is MORE of a reason to use the QB who is a very mobile, excellent runner...who also has the stronger arm of the two.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Twilbert07;611910]Campbell's most important number is 4-10 over his past 14 starts. Time to try something different.[/quote]

This isn't baseball where individual players have win-loss records.

[B]That's Zorn's record.[/B]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;611931]As I pointed out last week, he's got a higher YPA than Brady, McNabb, Cutler, Warner & Palmer. Seriously, it's sad how misinformed his detractors are.[/quote]
You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dgack;612019]I think you're confused on what the definition of whining is. I've seen a lot of internet whining in my day, but statistical analysis and critical thinking really doesn't qualify.

Thanks for playing.[/quote]

Nice try. It still doesn't change the fact that he's DONE.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;612073]Nice try. It still doesn't change the fact that he's DONE.[/quote]

Again, I think you're confused about reality. I have no delusions that posting analysis on an internet message board is going to help Jason Campbell keep his job.

But hey, I'm glad you're so happy about it. At least you'll be in a better mood than the rest of us while this team loses out and then proceeds to "win the offseason" next year.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611968]

I don't think the WCO is the issue, I just think that this is what we've built. Last year (first five games), we had five good or great players on offense: Kendall, Samuels, Portis, Campbell, and Cooley. As the year went on, Samuels and Portis became ineffective players for one reason or another, and that left us with three. Kendall walked in the offseason (he was probably having a career year anyway), and we replaced him, shrewedly, but with a mediocre Dockery.
[/quote]

You made a lot of great points and I agreed with most of it except what you said here. With 5 undisputedly "good" (not great) players on offense last year we should have been much better than we were. This year, we've lost a couple of those guys and others have declined. However, I think one of the key problems with our entire offense is that we don't have the right personnel to run it. Like it or not, Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback. Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well. Then there's Portis, who has bulked up from his denver days and is a power runner, he's not explosive and not a great pass-catcher either - not the right type of feature back for a WCO. And we can complain all we want about how bad our O-line is, because it is bad, but its not the right type of offensive line to run a WCO. Even when healthy, the line wasnt light or agile enough to run the WCO effectively.

When it boils down to it, Vinny and Danny made a huge mistake by hiring a WCO coach and not replacing the current offensive personnel. As a result, they've wasted two years of everyones time and wasted alot of potential.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;612073]Nice try. It still doesn't change the fact that he's DONE.[/quote]

Another thorough and fact-based argument!

Seriously, you base your debates on emotions and personal opinions.




What makes you say "he's DONE"?

Have you even looked at the stats you attack with your stubborn anti-Campbell arguments?

What makes you think that a new playcaller can't help the QB? Even if Sherman is not the greatest playcaller, at least we'll be running different plays instead of the same, scripted scheme we've failed with nearly every week this season.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;612086]Like it or not, [B]Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback.[/B] Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well. [/quote]


An undefeated season (should have been a National Champonship) at Auburn says otherwise.

I see a lot of talent and physical ability with Campbell, even signs of leadership forming after being so shy and business-like in earlier years.

He's obviously being held back by poor playcalling and personnel decisions, mainly regarding the offensive line, or lack of. You can see it clearly. As the line breaks down over the year, and last season also, his numbers begin to decline. Also, as other teams figure out Zorn's playcalls as the season progresses and we become more predictable, both this year and last year, his performances can't possibly improve.

When protected and in a good offensive scheme, he excels.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I'm a big fan of Jason Campbell (the man, not necessarily the job he has done this season) and even I think it's pretty obvious he is done here in D.C.

The best case scenario for him is that Sherman Hemsley (err Lewis? or is it Smith? I forget) just whispers into Jason's headset "let it fly, kid" and they go out and put on a show. Even still, unless they win out against vastly superior opponents to the cupcakes they've faced thus far, there's no way this team makes the playoffs. And no playoffs means Jason is done here.

I still think he'll go elsewhere and play well next year. I'm certainly willing to admit that because of his personal qualities, I want him to find success -- and maybe that clouds my objectivity -- but I find the constant chant of "this kid isn't good enough" from all the media types is just too easy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;612066]This isn't baseball where individual players have win-loss records.

[B]That's Zorn's record.[/B][/quote]

You don't think QBs are judged by their W-L record? Hmmm. They get too much credit and too much blame, but as the field leader, that's the name of the game.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

No way. There is nothing that I would want to see more than Soup hold up that Lombardy Trophy up and prove everyone wrong. The man has class. He might be a good QB for another team. He might be a good back up like Collins. Al Synderatto ruined him the minute he hired Jimbo. He's done though. Even that duffus Jimbo knows that. As for his numbers, eff statistics! As a man smarter than myself once said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statisitics." I think it was Twain but don't hold me to that.

I came to the realization that this was coming on like, week one. This is funny to me. What else can you do but laugh? They haven't earned any more of my anger. They deserve my ridicule and spite. Except for the Defense, I've no love for this team, especially the grifter in chief. Suing an old lady? Man eff you. A pox on your house. And that's from the heart.

It does give me pleasure to see Danny cry. Because even though my anger has been replaced with humor, cynicism, and indifference, I know Snyder is up in his suite shitting his britches. When Phat All lays on his back in the middle of the field, in every game, I laugh my ass off. It makes me feel really good knowing that King Douche feels so bad.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;612111]No way. There is nothing that I would want to see more than Soup hold up that Lombardy Trophy up and prove everyone wrong. The man has class. He might be a good QB for another team. He might be a good back up like Collins. Al Synderatto ruined him the minute he hired Jimbo. He's done though. Even that duffus Jimbo knows that. As for his numbers, eff statistics! As a man smarter than myself once said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statisitics." I think it was Twain but don't hold me to that.

I came to the realization that this was coming on like, week one. This is funny to me. What else can you do but laugh? They haven't earned any more of my anger. They deserve my ridicule and spite. Except for the Defense, I've no love for this team, especially the grifter in chief. Suing an old lady? Man eff you. A pox on your house. And that's from the heart.

It does give me pleasure to see Danny cry. Because even though my anger has been replaced with humor, cynicism, and indifference, I know Snyder is up in his suite shitting his britches. When Phat All lays on his back in the middle of the field, in every game, I laugh my ass off. [B]It makes me feel really good knowing that King Douche feels so bad.[/B][/quote]


It's not cool to speak in third-person, you know.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;612114]It's not cool to speak in third-person, you know.[/quote]

Are you going to apologize for Snyder?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

You know I take some of that back. Sometimes I get a little overzealous. I don't wish a pox on Snyder's family.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;611966]Fair enough, I'll stop sort of saying that Gibbs 'ruined him' but while he may have been a good 'fit' for Gibbs system, I don't think he was a good fit with Gibbs.

Enough about that though, his lack of development and production this season has been disappointing to me-but I don't know that anyone else will do anything better behind this line.[/quote]
May be true, may not have mattered

Not every QB is going to develop no matter who the coach is.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=firstdown;612072]You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?[/quote]
Some people like stats and think that it tells the whole story.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;612099]An undefeated season (should have been a National Champonship) at Auburn says otherwise.
[/quote]
College is a whole different game. They miss open guys just as much, but they also have receivers that get 10 yards open and literally stand there and wait for the ball and get tackled on the 4 yard line because the safety finally figured out what happened. You don't have the speed, the routes, the necessity to catch in stride, the defensive looks, etc in college nearly the same as you do in the NFL.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;612086]You made a lot of great points and I agreed with most of it except what you said here. With 5 undisputedly "good" (not great) players on offense last year we should have been much better than we were. This year, we've lost a couple of those guys and others have declined. However, I think one of the key problems with our entire offense is that we don't have the right personnel to run it. Like it or not, Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback. Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well. Then there's Portis, who has bulked up from his denver days and is a power runner, he's not explosive and not a great pass-catcher either - not the right type of feature back for a WCO. And we can complain all we want about how bad our O-line is, because it is bad, but its not the right type of offensive line to run a WCO. Even when healthy, the line wasnt light or agile enough to run the WCO effectively.

When it boils down to it, Vinny and Danny made a huge mistake by hiring a WCO coach and not replacing the current offensive personnel. As a result, they've wasted two years of everyones time and wasted alot of potential.[/quote]We were arguably the best offensive team in the NFL for the first half of the season. It's because of the miserable failures since then that it seems like so gosh darn long ago, but what we did have was working. We were, in part because of two wins over cupcakes, 6-2. Three games before, we were a very legit 4-1, and one of the best five teams in football. That was with the WCO. There was nothing fluky about that performance that wouldn't also apply to the first six games of this season.

From that point forward, decline set in and things were clearly different. The OL cracked and later broke. The lack of depth at WR really set in when our running game became unproductive. None of these things have the first thing to do with the WCO. It wasn't un-normal decline, or decline related to the expansion of the WCO, and contrary to popular reporting, the run fits did not change in the middle of the season.

Campbell has both played in the WCO well and poorly over the last 22 games. He has reached the highest point in his career (Week 7), and the lowest (the 2009 offseason) playing in the same offense. He hasn't been terrible this year, but at age 27, we're getting somewhere close to whatever he's going to be in this offense. Eli Manning is an exception to the rule, as he endured a horrific regular season in his 3rd full year as a starter, but played on a team that lucked into the playoff, and has since raised his level of play.

Ultimately, though, the comparison ends there. Eli plays for an organization who--even though they gave up more to get him than we gave for Campbell--never moved to scapegoat him for any offensive issues they might have had. We on the other hand, have systematically sabotaged anything we might have gotten from Campbell at the conclusion of his development through horrendous personnel decisions and complete mis-management.

What I said in the offseason still rings true: if this organization can't win with Campbell, then they can't win without him. Major organizational changes will be necessary to ever have an offense that can produce points consistently, and that means that whoever is building the 2010 team cannot worry about who the QB of the team is. Campbell or anyone else. Too many other pressing issues: offensive and defensive, must be taken care of first.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612267]Too many other pressing issues: offensive and defensive, must be taken care of first.[/quote]

ESPECIALLY the defense hey Trip. LOL. 5th overall defense, 8th in scoring and tied for six in your beloved sacks.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=RedBar;612293]ESPECIALLY the defense hey Trip. LOL. 5th overall defense, 8th in scoring and tied for six in your beloved sacks.[/quote]Your words, not mine.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612297]Your words, not mine.[/quote]

Yeah you seem a lot more clever with other peoples words. You need to stick to that.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=RedBar;612309]Yeah you seem a lot more clever with other peoples words. You need to stick to that.[/quote]Well, before you get banned, I would like to commend you on your well-thought out opinions and critiques. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have you to help check my ego at the door. You're doing a great job, even if you're not old enough to read the fourm rules yet.

I'm going to miss having you around. Stay in touch.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612311]Well, before you get banned, I would like to commend you on your well-thought out opinions and critiques. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have you to help check my ego at the door. You're doing a great job, even if you're not old enough to read the fourm rules yet.

I'm going to miss having you around. Stay in touch.[/quote]

I bet you'd love that.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=firstdown;612072]You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?[/quote]

In the context of dispelling a ridiculous criticism, yes. Not comparing him to them but if you're going to criticize, at least be accurate in your criticism.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=firstdown;612072]You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?[/quote]

You have to, the numbers are there, and these QBs have been in the same Offense for years. JC's 5th year in the league and he has had 3 different Offenses to learn. Name one of those Qbs that has changed offenses in the last four seasons.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;612359]You have to, [B]the numbers are there[/B], and these QBs have been in the same Offense for years. JC's 5th year in the league and he has had 3 different Offenses to learn. Name one of those Qbs that has changed offenses in the last four seasons.[/quote]

JC is nowhere near any of those QB's. you can pull the numbers all you want but it comes down to W's. we couldnt score a td on the worst defense in the league and there are QB's like Rodgers who get hit just about every play and still put up points so its hard to blame it all on the oline.
The different system excuse is old,please let it go.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612311]Well, before you get banned, I would like to commend you on your well-thought out opinions and critiques. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have you to help check my ego at the door. You're doing a great job, even if you're not old enough to read the fourm rules yet.

I'm going to miss having you around. Stay in touch.[/quote]

I've been reading this RedBar character's posts. Is this some former high school rival of your's lol?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=hooskins;612624]I've been reading this RedBar character's posts. Is this some former high school rival of your's lol?[/quote]

Not exactly

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;612626]Not exactly[/quote]

that's quite the intriguing answer. Not really saying no, but leaving a door open that some other shadowy relationship is at play. Ah the mysteries of the warpath!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=hooskins;612624]I've been reading this RedBar character's posts. Is this some former high school rival of your's lol?[/quote]Doesn't that imply he graduated high school? C'mon, you know better ;)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;612651]that's quite the intriguing answer. Not really saying no, but leaving a door open that some other shadowy relationship is at play. Ah the mysteries of the warpath![/quote]

I'm not going to blow his cover. I would just say he's smarter than he may present himself here

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Hmm oh how interesting

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

They fight like former lovers.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;612781]I'm not going to blow his cover. I would just say he's smarter than he may present himself here[/quote]

Yeah too bad he blew his chance.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;612849]Yeah too bad he blew his chance.[/quote]

Gone?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

So Campbell is going to start the Monday night Eagles game, and I think this is Jim Zorn's way of giving JC a chance to showcase what he can do. I don't agree with it, but why else would he start him...I realize that Collins didn't show that much, but a change...any change is needed right now.