Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086][B]I'm sure you do,there could be made a case for collusion on the part of Snyder and Jones.[/B][/quote]

I'd be interested how you cam to this conclusion.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]I'm not at all surprised the NFLPA agreed. While the players may or may not have made less in the uncapped year (I suspect they didnt make less) that was only one year. The NFLPA agreed to the deal so that their players could make more every year after that because part of the deal was keeping the cap from going down. The NFLPA too the long term view of keeping salaries up for their members.

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

What I don't see in your response, is an answer to why any team should have had to "cool it" during the uncapped year. That is really the crux of the issue. If the league wanted that to be abided by, they should have put it in writing and have the owners vote on it. They didn't do that, because had they the NFLPA would have used it to show collusion during one of the most heated part of the new CBA negotiations.

I doubt that the Skins/Cowboys take outright legal action, simply because they don't want to harm the league's antitrust exemption, or negotiating stance with the NFLPA at some later date, but I am positive that they will put heavy pressure on the league to reduce or dismiss the penalties before this whole saga is said and done. My guess is that within a month of DSmith's re-election (or at this month's owners meetings whichever comes later), the penalties will be reduced to an amount which allows the salary cap upward adjustments for this year, and negates any penalty which would have been moved forward into next year

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the value system that some people have.

The league essentially admitted that they colluded. It is laughable to contend otherwise. If you cannot understand how the owners colluded or somehow think that the Skins should have just listened and not gained the competitive advantage that they HAD THE LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE then you should bow out of the conversation because you're plain wrong.

I'd even go as far to say this. We got hammered the most but Dallas should be simply livid to point of murder. This jealously-driven act of revenge put them into a much tighter spot than us. Count this as the only time I will probably ever cheer for any of those donkeys in Dallas on anything.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mbedner3420;899166]I agree. I think we'll eventually get a substantial portion of our money back, but it won't matter. The NFL will have already gotten what it wanted: the Redskins and Cowboys to miss out on the major FA this off-season.[/quote]

That's not what this is about, neither the Skins, who signed multiple targeted players, or the Cowboys, who signed their sought after CB, were overly hampered by the penalty. What it was about, and the NFL basically said this in their statement from Sunday, was making sure that the salary cap number did not drop below last year's cap. I tend to think that the Skins/Cowboys took the hit because the 2 owners both are very strong League supporters in Big Markets, and therefore have the ability to overcome the penalty. Other places that were not singled out, like GB, who is a small market and thus the hit would be more unbearable, or Chicago, whose owner is a tightwad, were not good candidates for taking on a revenue sharing conundrum.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086] What collusion are you fans talking about ..none of the other owners in any way shape or form tried to stop a player from making any money ...or any owner from making any money,this is all about how the contracts were structured anda majority commity choose a way for them to be done and it was "agreed upon"...4 choose to go back on their word as a owner to gain and unfair competitive advanage over the other owners ...more then some, in a salery cap move.Do you think these other 28 owners don't have lawyers ,do you not think the NFL thought this through,laws don't have to broken in busuness, business ethics count in court .[/quote]

Oddly, not "agreed upon" in writing. And, why, pray tell, was it "agreed upon" that contracts couldn't be structured in a certain way? So cap couldn't be dumped (as we, admittedly, did). Now, what's wrong with that--why couldn't we structure our contracts this way? Answer: we'd have MORE MONEY TO PAY THE PLAYERS. The NFL effectively blocked that, with an unwritten "agreement." That, I believe, is collusion.

I would have thought that the collusion is pretty obvious to everyone--the NFL owners are a private club of super rich folk who make their own rules (and Danny and Jerry are admittedly among the worst of them!). You sound like Claude Raines in Casablanca: "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling in this casino!"

The other 28 "innocents" with their "business ethics" have their own shenanigans going on--don't be naive. I think all that ticker tape and Eli-love has clouded your judgment.

As for Graziano and "check mate" or whatever: when everyone from King to Clayton think the league has gone too far--and these are not people who love the skins, to say the least--that should tell you something.

Danny and Jerry may be asses, but this punishment is out of line.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;899202]Oddly, not "agreed upon" in writing. And, why, pray tell, was it "agreed upon" that contracts couldn't be structured in a certain way? So cap couldn't be dumped (as we, admittedly, did). Now, what's wrong with that--why couldn't we structure our contracts this way? Answer: we'd have MORE MONEY TO PAY THE PLAYERS. The NFL effectively blocked that, with an unwritten "agreement." That, I believe, is collusion.

I would have thought that the collusion is pretty obvious to everyone--the NFL owners are a private club of super rich folk who make their own rules (and Danny and Jerry are admittedly among the worst of them!). [B]You sound like Claude Raines in Casablanca: "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling in this casino!"[/B]

The other 28 "innocents" with their "business ethics" have their own shenanigans going on--don't be naive. I think all that ticker tape and Eli-love has clouded your judgment.

As for Graziano and "check mate" or whatever: when everyone from King to Clayton think the league has gone too far--and these are not people who love the skins, to say the least--that should tell you something.

Danny and Jerry may be asses, but this punishment is out of line.[/quote]

:laughing2 Sig worthy material right there.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]I'm not at all surprised the NFLPA agreed. While the players may or may not have made less in the uncapped year (I suspect they didnt make less) that was only one year. The NFLPA agreed to the deal so that their players could make more every year after that because part of the deal was keeping the cap from going down. The NFLPA too the long term view of keeping salaries up for their members.

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

Their warnging amounts to a bully telling you you better go along with him stealing candy from his teacher and if don't he will punish you. So you don't and now he's punishing you.

Everyone wants to sit on the owners having and agreement. and we ignored it. How about sitting on the fact the agreement was against the law and the Skins chose not to break the law? What weird mind allows fans to believe it's ok to go along with the whole or group even if it's against the law?

Thats like getting pulled over for speeding and your excuse is "I was going the speed of the rest of the traffic." No, you were breaking the law and he stopped you. The NFLPA should never have agreed to whatever the Exec commity requested. I doubt the CAP would have gone down but had it there might have been another collusion issue. How is it not if the owners threaten to lower the CAP unles the NFLPA agrees to not file suit? That practically strong arming the players union. Just to spank two teams who chose not to break the law and follow the crowd in collusion.

[QUOTE=SBXVII;899263]Their warnging amounts to a bully telling you you better go along with him stealing candy from his teacher and if don't he will punish you. So you don't and now he's punishing you.

Everyone wants to sit on the owners having and agreement. and we ignored it. How about sitting on the fact the agreement was against the law and the Skins chose not to break the law? What weird mind allows fans to believe it's ok to go along with the whole or group even if it's against the law?

Thats like getting pulled over for speeding and your excuse is "I was going the speed of the rest of the traffic." No, you were breaking the law and he stopped you. The NFLPA should never have agreed to whatever the Exec commity requested. I doubt the CAP would have gone down but had it there might have been another collusion issue. How is it not if the owners threaten to lower the CAP unles the NFLPA agrees to not file suit? That practically strong arming the players union. Just to spank two teams who chose not to break the law and follow the crowd in collusion.[/QUOTE]

Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086]I'm sure you do,there could be made a case for collusion on the part of Snyder and Jones. Look you can't find one post of mine saying anything bad about Dan Snyder as a villian,I find a whole lot of his business ethics questionable I believe he plays fantasy football with a real team(yeah he is the majority owner) and the same with Jerry Jones....the fact that he hook up with him amazes me. What collusion are you fans talking about ..none of the other owners in any way shape or form tried to stop a player from making any money ...or any owner from making any money,this is all about how the contracts were structured and a majority commity choose a way for them to be done and it was "agreed upon"...4 choose to go back on their word as a owner to gain and unfair competitive advanage over the other owners ...more then some, in a salery cap move.Do you think these other 28 owners don't have lawyers ,do you not think the NFL thought this through,laws don't have to broken in busuness, business ethics count in court .[/quote]

Wow Giantone, please, punctuation next time.

It's quite obvious you're going to say "what collusion" since it's your owner who spear-headed this attack. Quite convenient that it would be an owner of a franchise within the same division. You're talking about competitive advantage? Neither did the Redskins nor the Cowboys make the playoffs in the last two years. Tell me what advantage did those teams have over the other teams in the league?

The biggest point is that there were no rules broken. It was an uncapped year. Plain and simple. Telling the owners that they should not spend money in the uncapped year is worthless. There was no CBA in place. Any team with the means to do so could have done exactly what the 'skins and 'boys did. Except, they colluded with the league to not spend money, and then agreed that these two teams should be punished for following the rules. So, talk about unfair competitive advantage. The other 28 teams get rewarded extra cap space while strictly penalizing those two teams (and doing nothing to the other two teams not mentioned.) And again, how convenient that it was the Giants' owner who spear-headed this move to punish two teams within his same division, but doing nothing to the other teams.

If you don't get that then there's no hope for you.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899279]Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.[/quote]

This is true. Unfortunately, the NFLPA had no choice but to agree to a dirty deal by the NFL. Plain and simple. Still though, I don't see if stopping those teams from suing the NFL.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsguy;899316]This is true. Unfortunately, the NFLPA had no choice but to agree to a dirty deal by the NFL. Plain and simple. Still though, I don't see if stopping those teams from suing the NFL.[/quote]

Again, if I'm London Fletcher, I sue. They took money right out of his pocket.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;899328]Again, if I'm London Fletcher, I sue. They took money right out of his pocket.[/quote]

He probably can't. Not just b/c of the speculative nature of the damages (He would pretty much need a statement from the Skins saying "We would have offered you X, but due to salary cap restrictions resulting solely from the NFL's sanction, we can only offer you Y". Pretty sure that is not forthcoming).

As a member of the NFLPA, the NFLPA's agreement to the salary cap arrangements would, most likely, cut off his legal remedy.

Clearly he, and other potential Redskins are likely harmed, BUT the players organization agree to allow the harm to happen.

I'm pretty much with CRed on this one. After D. Smith's reelection and the owners meeting, the league will rework this and, IMHO, simply say - "Okay, what's done is done this year, but next it will go back to normal and their will be no further penalty."

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899279]Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.[/quote]

If the CAP was going to fall below last years it was going to fall whether the NFLPA agreed to it or not. The owners threw out there that they would not allow the CAP to fall below last yrs if they agreed not to file a law suit. It was a cookie to keep them quiet. No way the CAP falls below last yrs just because the Skins reworked 2 contracts and Dallas reworked 1. Besides the revenue sharing is taken from the total amount earned from income not total amount paid out. Those lesser teams still would have gotten their fair share of the skimming from the top of the better managed teams.

As has been said on the radio, there were far more teams that spent below the bottom limit of the CAP also. They too effected the balance across the board... and they don't get punished. Why?

and your right had the league came out and said "we agreed not to do this and tried to punish the two teams.... the new CBA would never have been signed and it would have gone to court with the NFLPA having filed that the owners colluded. The key is the owners broke the law

How about this for a decent result. All the owners punished the Skins and Cowboys for not playing fair. Ok. It's done. Now JJ/DS need to punish the league for their breaking the law to the sum of 46 mill.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;899379]He probably can't. Not just b/c of the speculative nature of the damages (He would pretty much need a statement from the Skins saying "We would have offered you X, but due to salary cap restrictions resulting solely from the NFL's sanction, we can only offer you Y". Pretty sure that is not forthcoming).

As a member of the NFLPA, the NFLPA's agreement to the salary cap arrangements would, most likely, cut off his legal remedy.

Clearly he, and other potential Redskins are likely harmed, BUT the players organization agree to allow the harm to happen.

[B]I'm pretty much with CRed on this one. After D. Smith's reelection and the owners meeting, the league will rework this and, IMHO, simply say - "Okay, what's done is done this year, but next it will go back to normal and their will be no further penalty."[/B][/quote]

I agree that the punishment likely will be reduced but it has to be reduced more than that. Even at "only" $18 mil. for one year, the punishment still does not fit the supposed crime.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;898860]So, you and your friends agree to do a job for another group. After the other group leaves, your friends secretly agree to try and cheat on the agreement. Even though you know it's wrong, and may even be illegal, because the "the group reache[d] consensus and you are in the group that's what you have to do"? Sorry, illegal agreements cannot be enforced.[/quote]

Agreed. Majority does not equal morality.

However, if the Redskins were part of the consensus and gave their word on a shady deal, then I don't really have a problem with them facing the shady consequences of that deal.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;899379]He probably can't. Not just b/c of the speculative nature of the damages (He would pretty much need a statement from the Skins saying "We would have offered you X, but due to salary cap restrictions resulting solely from the NFL's sanction, we can only offer you Y". Pretty sure that is not forthcoming).

As a member of the NFLPA, the NFLPA's agreement to the salary cap arrangements would, most likely, cut off his legal remedy.

Clearly he, and other potential Redskins are likely harmed, BUT the players organization agree to allow the harm to happen.

[/quote]

Right--I noted somewhere else that he probably doesn't have standing, given the NFLPA. But I'd damn sure want my dues back if I'm London! Sure, the NFLPA can say that the same amount of cash is out there, so London can go get it. But as someone who's captain of a team's D, he has more value to that team. And we all know that the the skins would spend the money, while it ain't going nowhere in Indy, Jax, etc.

London Fletcher just seems to be one of those good guys who gets ****ed with all the time. But I'm sure he'll be OK--let's pay the man!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

Word is that these "warnings" never actually came from the NFL and never in writing and you don't heed warnings when you aren't doing anything wrong...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]I'm not at all surprised the NFLPA agreed. While the players may or may not have made less in the uncapped year (I suspect they didnt make less) that was only one year. The NFLPA agreed to the deal so that their players could make more every year after that because part of the deal was keeping the cap from going down. The NFLPA too the long term view of keeping salaries up for their members.

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

How can the NFL warn the Redskins, approve the contracts the Redskins sent them, and then reprimand them? The NFL league office approved the contracts! How do you back off a little? How is the Redskins organization arrogant?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Pansies!!!

MarkMaske ‏ @MarkMaske
Cowboys are unlikely to challenge their NFL-mandated salary cap reduction, according to a person familiar with case...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;899609]Pansies!!!

MarkMaske ‏ @MarkMaske
Cowboys are unlikely to challenge their NFL-mandated salary cap reduction, according to a person familiar with case...[/quote]



Not sure I quite get that strategy. /shrug

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=NC_Skins;899613]Not sure I quite get that strategy. /shrug[/quote]

It's called the "get reamed now, call in favors later" strategy.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

for whats its worth, we dont have an owner thats just going to stand idly by and do nothing. So if theres a case to be made, or a lawsuit to file, itll be done. If nothing is done then you gotta assume he knew and was ok (accepted) it, regardless of the statement that bruce allen made.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I made a mafia reference a few posts back--I really don't expect a lawsuit. That's like breaking the code of silence or something. Only Al "the Rat" Davis ever tried it.

Danny (and Jerry, no doubt) will get theirs however and whenever they can, for the rest of their business lives, I'd guess. Wonder how that next owner's meeting is gonna go?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;899328]Again, if I'm London Fletcher, I sue. They took money right out of his pocket.[/quote]


LOL...Bad enough you have Giant envy and want to blame the "owners" of the other teams for all your problems ,now you tell London Fletcher to sue ,why,it's the teams choice to not pay him no other team or "owner" made that call just the Redskins.Money did'nt stop them from going after anyone else .Your buddy Graziano is just mad becuase the players threw him out of the Giants locker room.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899686]LOL...Bad enough you have Giant envy and want to blame the "owners" of the other teams for all your problems ,now you tell London Fletcher to sue ,why,it's the teams choice to not pay him no other team or "owner" made that call just the Redskins.Money did'nt stop them from going after anyone else .Your buddy Graziano is just mad becuase the players threw him out of the Giants locker room.[/quote]

Why did the players throw Graziano out of the locker room? Did he catch them faking again?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=NC_Skins;899613][B]Not sure I quite get that strategy[/B]. /shrug[/quote]
A few years ago I got into a...fracas with the local Fire Marshall in Bonita Springs regarding my business. Basically he was railroading me (with all kinds of threats for non-compliance) into buying about $20k worth of equipment that served no real purpose and had NO use.
BUT, if the truth were known, he was getting a little $$$ from the manufacturers for his trouble.
I could easily have proved these things in court and my Mouthpiece agreed 100%.
BUT he told me.....DO you REALLY want to deal with all the probs that, that dept can cause you for as long as you own that business? He'll cause you 10 times that amount.
TOUGH pill to swallow...but I bought the stuff......

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;899687]Why did the players throw Graziano out of the locker room? Did he catch them faking again?[/quote]


LOL...from what I was told ...yes that was the game .Very good!!!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'm not sure how far this will go or if it would even help but I saw it at another site and thought I'd share it here. Would like to think it will get to whom they say it is supposed to go.

[url=http://www.change.org/petitions/the-nfl-nflpa-and-roger-goodell-reverse-the-cap-penalty-on-the-cowboys-and-redskins]Petition: The NFL, NFLPA and Roger Goodell: Reverse the cap penalty on the Cowboys and Redskins | Change.org[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;899615]It's called the "get reamed now, call in favors later" strategy.[/quote]

For sure, we will probably do the same, I hope we don't though.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899686]LOL...Bad enough you have Giant envy and want to blame the "owners" of the other teams for all your problems ,now you tell London Fletcher to sue ,why,it's the teams choice to not pay him no other team or "owner" made that call just the Redskins.Money did'nt stop them from going after anyone else .Your buddy Graziano is just mad becuase the players threw him out of the Giants locker room.[/quote]

Please go away. Seriously, why do you enjoy tormenting Skins fans? We don't like you, we don't care about you.. I can't wait to see RG3 (who you where praying we wouldn't get) run all over your sorry ass team...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Brody81;899722]Please go away. Seriously, [B]why do you enjoy tormenting Skins fans?[/B] We don't like you, we don't care about you.. I can't wait to see RG3 (who you where praying we wouldn't get) run all over your sorry ass team...[/quote]

Your answer is within your question.

I recommend that instead of being tormented, zing back. Like try this: "So do you fake posts the way that your defense fakes injuries or your wife fakes in bed?"

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;899733]Your answer is within your question.

I recommend that instead of being tormented, zing back. Like try this: "So do you fake posts the way that your defense fakes injuries or your wife fakes in bed?"[/quote]

:cool-smil:food-smil:laughing2

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Brody81;899722]Please go away. Seriously, why do you enjoy tormenting Skins fans? We don't like you, we don't care about you.. I can't wait to see RG3 (who you where praying we wouldn't get) run all over your sorry ass team...[/quote]

lol.I have alot of respect for the Skins ,Danny boy and the fans.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;899733]Your answer is within your question.

I recommend that instead of being tormented, zing back. Like try this: "So do you fake posts the way that your defense fakes injuries or your wife fakes in bed?"[/quote]

Yup that's the way to go,take shots at another poster wife,classy.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899931]Yup that's the way to go,take shots at another poster wife,classy.[/quote]

I am pretty sure that saying your wife fakes in bed is not a shot at her but a shot at you (or whoever the post was about).

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;899940]I am pretty sure that saying your wife fakes in bed is not a shot at her but a shot at you (or whoever the post was about).[/quote]

Well we'd have no idea if she faked with all the other men.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The one benefit of this strip of cap space is after 2 years we could possibly have a 36 million dollar surplus. Can't hold us down forever.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;899733]Your answer is within your question.

I recommend that instead of being tormented, zing back. Like try this: "So do you fake posts the way that your defense fakes injuries or your wife fakes in bed?"[/quote]

HEY! Don't make a statement like that to him. For all you know it could be his husband faking it, not a wife... Too far? eh....

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899931]Yup that's the way to go,take shots at another poster wife,classy.[/quote]

If you think about it, the shot was actually at you. And I was just facetiously yanking your chain a little. Obviously I don't have the knowledge to be serious about that.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899930]lol.I have alot of respect for the Skins ,Danny boy and the fans.[/quote]
If that is true, it frequently does not come across that way.....