Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;301454]Okoye is still very much a project. I could see him sitting for much of the year, much like Rocky did this previous season and Campbell the season before.

Can Redskins fans accept that?[/quote]I personally could live with that. He's like any other rookie after all.

I don't neccessarily agree with this assessment. He's young, but he's got the college experience. If he is the prospect I think he is, why would he be any slower to develop than any other prospect?

The key to Okoye is that hes 19, but that he also is well versed in the college game. I think he's ready to go when called on. Just keep in mind, that like every other college draftable player, he starts as a rookie.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;301472]No. I think Landry is awesome (just like I think CJ is) but you build in the trenches. We need to strengthen that D-line. But when you talk about a guy like Okoye, or even Anderson or J. Moss I think you're looking at someone who probably won't be a major factor in 2007 (but could be for years to come). In the long run, that'll be more beneficial than Landry starting right away in 2007.

I just wonder if fans have the patience for that.[/quote]

Most want to win now. We are on a 15 year drought minus 2 seasons. The way I look at it Ive alreay waited this long, whats another few years? Just entertain me in between.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;301472]No. I think Landry is awesome (just like I think CJ is) but you build in the trenches. We need to strengthen that D-line. But when you talk about a guy like Okoye, or even Anderson or J. Moss I think you're looking at someone who probably won't be a major factor in 2007 (but could be for years to come). In the long run, that'll be more beneficial than Landry starting right away in 2007.

I just wonder if fans have the patience for that.[/quote]This I agree with.

I don't know whether the fans have the patience for this, but if Okoye makes the pro bowl in 2008, I think all will be forgiven. IMO, it doesn't matter who we take, we have to allow at least a year for development. That's why all the Rocky bust talk for not beating out Holdman is downright silly.

No matter who we draft, you won't hear anything from me about their bust potential during their rookie year. You have to see them in their second year before you can even begin to assess what you have in them.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=GTripp0012;301477]This I agree with.

I don't know whether the fans have the patience for this, but if Okoye makes the pro bowl in 2008, I think all will be forgiven. IMO, it doesn't matter who we take, we have to allow at least a year for development. That's why all the Rocky bust talk for not beating out Holdman is downright silly.

No matter who we draft, you won't hear anything from be about their bust potential during their rookie year. You have to see them in their second year before you can even begin to assess what you have in them.[/quote]

"Whoop de doo Basil, but what does it all mean?" (Austin Powers)

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

if you can get 2 starters, as opposed to one pro bowler, then yes(its worth it) and gtripp, we usually agree, but brown really scares me as a player. way too inconsistant

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

In my opinion, you go with the stud. I feel that the Redskins needs are being way over blown. How many years did we have a great defense with a line that was simply awful. Guys like Wynn who play great against the run.

I feel we have to go Landry or Okoye at the number six pick. Moving down two spots could cause us to lose both Okoye and Landry even if they're both still there when we pick.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

The other thing is that out of say 8 "elite" prospects maybe 2 will be real pro bowlers, another 2-3 will be good players and the other 3-4 will be average to bust. Maybe trading down gives you a better shot at getting a few good players rather than risking it all on one "elite" player who may end up being no better than players taken a round later. I guess there is no real scientific way to do this. You just have to trust your scouting and evaluating to avoid busts.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

By the way I luike Okoye and he would be the only pick at 6 that wouldn't piss me off. Other than him I think we need to mvoe our pick. I think I'd still rather move the pick but only if we can drop just a few spots and still pick up someone we really like.

BTW...is this the most intersting draft in a while? No one has any idea what direction anyone is really going other than the first pick and there are only 4 more days until the draft. A guy like Russell could not go 1 and drop big time. Thomas..who the hell knows? Who is going to make the biggest push for Johnson? How will Detroit figure out how to screw up this year? What guys will be available at 6 so we can trade our pick? How precipitous a fall does Branch make? I got no answers.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote]By the way I luike Okoye and he would be the only pick at 6 that wouldn't piss me off. Other than him I think we need to mvoe our pick. I think I'd still rather move the pick but only if we can drop just a few spots and still pick up someone we really like.[/quote]
If we stay pat. I want Landry or Okoye. Those guys I feel will both be great players in this league.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

The whole assumption here is that the player we're getting at 6 (whether it be Okoye or Landry) is a pro-bowler in the making. While that certainly seems to be the case based on what we know of them now, it's definitely not an assumption we can just make. Corey Simon was selected at 6 overall, he had a few good years, but in general I'd say he didn't live up to the potential. Throughout history the top of the draft is rife with players who didn't make the pro bowl. There's no telling that Landry or Okoye won't be one of them.

Also, why should we assume that a player we'd get at 12, 15, 18, or 31 wouldn't become a pro bowler? Lots of teams have success with those players. And who's to say we can't get a great player out of a 2nd or 3rd rounder? Portis, Cooley, and Derrick Dockery all came out of rounds 2 and 3.

The whole point I'm trying to make is you might study the players relentlessly, and research them to the point where you think you're absolutely sure who's going to be good and who's not. But the whole point is YOU NEVER KNOW. NEVER EVER EVER.

You can't assume Okoye or Landry will be pro-bowlers. You have to assess your team's overall needs. If you've got more than one hole, as we do, then it makes the most sense to trade down.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

Dlinemen in general scare me. I'd argue they bust more often than WRs in the first round. Lets look at someone many people here was high on, Kenechi Udeze. he has a good line around him, and he played between 85-89% of defensive snaps (dont remember exact #) and he had a total of 0 sacks. Very few defensive linemen taken in the first round seem to do poorly over the last 6 years.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

I want to echo some of SS' and Schneed's sentiments. First, we don't know that ANYONE, even the almighty CJ, is going to be a Pro Bowler. If the deal is right, it could make a lot of sense to trade down and particularly if the other team is willing to give considerably more than the sacrosanct draft pick value chart says we should get (e.g., trade down with ATL for their 1st and a 2nd). Second, I'm not sure that we'd be drafting Okoye to make an immediate impact as much as we'd be drafting him with the expectation that he would become an absolute monster within a year or two. I don't necessarily think he'll sit for a whole year (especially considering his would-be competition), but I don't think anyone is going to put up numbers like Jevon Kearse did in his rookie year.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=angryssg;301464]In your opinion do you think that we can afford to go with Landry and bypass getting another defensive lineman, which everyone claims that we need?[/quote]


yes i do according to john clayton's pod cast we are going to draft LL if we stay at 6

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;301454]Okoye is still very much a project. I could see him sitting for much of the year, much like Rocky did this previous season and Campbell the season before.

Can Redskins fans accept that?[/quote]

I couldn't. We need a horse up front that can play right away. Our D-line was as soft as butter last year. All this Landry talk makes no sense to me. Can't Peirson P. play? I know he is coming off a major injury but it seems to me that safety is an easier position to fill than D-line. No pass rush = no pass defense.

I am getting the feeling that our FO/GW thinks that our D-line was not a problem last year.

Re: Is trading down worth giving up the chance to take a future Pro-Bowler
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;301571]I want to echo some of SS' and Schneed's sentiments. First, we don't know that ANYONE, even the almighty CJ, is going to be a Pro Bowler. If the deal is right, it could make a lot of sense to trade down and particularly if the other team is willing to give considerably more than the sacrosanct draft pick value chart says we should get (e.g., trade down with ATL for their 1st and a 2nd). Second, I'm not sure that we'd be drafting Okoye to make an immediate impact as much as we'd be drafting him with the expectation that he would become an absolute monster within a year or two. I don't necessarily think he'll sit for a whole year (especially considering his would-be competition), but I don't think anyone is going to put up numbers like Jevon Kearse did in his rookie year.[/quote]


what about merriman