Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

All things considered, what TO THIS POINT could Zorn have done that he has not? As far as I am concerned, TO THIS POINT, I could not ask for more. He has done it all.
Vinny and the Dan brought it home!

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;462820]True, instead we have a young qb that hasn't proven anything at all. (granted he has potential but that's what people thought of Danny Wuerffel being a "system" qb). Jeff George was the vet like Collins is. Not all dissimilar.
[b]This is the probably the first and last time George and Collins are used in the same sentence. Collins is the consummate pro and team player, George-not so much[/b]

No, but we do have an extremely underachieving Santana Moss (or he was an overachiever in the past showing his true colors now), and Randle El who is getting paid like a #1 performing like #3. Again, not all that dissimilar.
[b]I think 32 of 32 teams would consider Moss and Randel-El an upgrade over 50-50- Gardner and Westbroke [/b]


Nope, instead, we have an OC that has no OC experience.

No, instead we have a guy running the show that has never done anything more than be a QB coach at the NFL level. Spurrier was supposed to be a QB Genius, Zorn is a QB guru. Again, not all dissimilar.
[b]The big thing you're missing is the Holmgren tree. Spurrier was a self made and appointed genius. Zorn has come from a strong lineage of successful coaches that followed a similar path. If you heard Cerrato on Sirius NFL Radio this week, he said that Zorn's practices are identical to the practices that he saw Bill Walsh run in SF. Following a proven method of success can compensate for lack of 'experience'[/b]

[/QUOTE]
There are naysayers and justifiably so until Zorn proves his worth, but those same naysayers universally overlook 3 important points:
1. Zorn inherits a playoff team that is largely unchanged in roster and coaching staff/philosphy. I'm on record saying that Gregg Williams [i][b]will not be missed![/b][/i] With the addition of Taylor, improvement of Landry and health of Rogers, McIntosh and Springs, we will be just fine.

2. For all the talk of us playing in the toughest division in football, we are not St. Mary's Sisters of the Poor. Last year we had 2nd half leads in ALL 6 NFC East games (and blew half of them). To further make the point, with the exception of the game in Dallas where we trailed by one at the start of the 4th quarter, we had 4th quarter in every division game.

3. We had 2nd half leads in 12 of 16 games last year and were only truly out of 1 game, New England. We have the talent to play with anybody on any given Sunday.

Far be it for me to say 'have no doubts about this season' but from where I sit, there is more to be excited about than to be concerned with.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[quote=Paintrain;462837]
2. For all the talk of us playing in the toughest division in football, we are not St. Mary's Sisters of the Poor. Last year we had 2nd half leads in ALL 6 NFC East games (and blew half of them). To further make the point, with the exception of the game in Dallas where we trailed by one at the start of the 4th quarter, we had 4th quarter in every division game.

3. We had 2nd half leads in 12 of 16 games last year and were only truly out of 1 game, New England. We have the talent to play with anybody on any given Sunday.

[/quote]

PLEASE!!!!!!!!! don't ever let me see a PREEVENT..anything.....ever ......again........

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[quote=jdlea;462699] I will not lie, I have a huge man crush on Jim Zorn. [/quote]

Looks like a "Bro-mamnce" is brewing.
Must say I like what I see and hear so far. Cautiously optimistic.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

Why don't we just try and forget that Spurrier ever coached here.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[quote=firstdown;462845]Why don't we just try and forget that Spurrier ever coached here.[/quote]

How?

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;462845]Why don't we just try and forget that Spurrier ever coached here.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you can't tell me you don't miss Jacquez Green...LOL

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;462811]I feel pretty good about Zorn & the team too, but to me 8-8 would be a successful 1st year for him in all fairness. It's the toughest division top to bottom, he's new, the system's new, GW's gone, etc. I think it's reasonable to feel really good about zorn while not predicting much beyond a mediocre team.

I don't know how much can be gained by comparing him to spurrier. The biggest difference is that zorn has coached for years in the nfl, just not been a head coach or OC. Spurrier's problems amounted to mgmt., he simply didn't have control & respect.

Looking back of course there were red flags w/the ole ball coach, but tell me you weren't excited when he won early? Or when we opened his 2nd year at 3-1 after beating the Pats?

At a couple points in time he had the team looking up, then as the 03 season went on they just tanked & almost seemed to give up. That can & does happen to nfl coaches w/experience too. It's entirely possible that it could happen to Zorn. I don't see that happening any time soon because the team's direction and overall stability has improved exponentially after Gibbs II, this is a much different organization than it was 5 years ago.[/QUOTE]

I think people forget that in Steve Spurrier's (and Norv Turner's) tenure in Washington, we didn't really have good teams. That tends to be crucial in how well a coach performs.

Steve Spurrier has proven to be a good coach -- in college. You don't win National Championships by being a complete idiot. To me, the Spurrier experiment just highlighted the extraordinary differences between the NFL and the NCAA. He, like many of us, never realized those differences until things began to fall apart.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

I think we could have made agreat run last year if we could have gotten by the seabags.And yes santana moss is showing his true colors.that is why we drafted 2 wrs.he blew the big play when we were leading in the playoffs.ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS TACKLE THE GUY instead its a pick six.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;462861]Dude, you can't tell me you don't miss Jacquez Green...LOL[/QUOTE]

Hey I miss Shane Matthews!

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

I have toally erased the Spurrier era. It didn't happen.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;462910]I think people forget that in Steve Spurrier's (and Norv Turner's) tenure in Washington, we didn't really have good teams. That tends to be crucial in how well a coach performs.[/quote]

Could not disagree more...you forget that we were predicted to win the Super Bowl in 99, and especially 2000. Those were both Turner years.
Also, while in hindsight we understand our team was not that great during the Spurrier era, we all thought it a playoff caliber team. Problem is, like a ship without a rudder, with poor coaching means it's going no where.

[quote]Steve Spurrier has proven to be a good coach -- in college. You don't win National Championships by being a complete idiot. To me, the Spurrier experiment just highlighted the extraordinary differences between the NFL and the NCAA. He, like many of us, never realized those differences until things began to fall apart.[/QUOTE]

Very true.


Oh, and first down...I would LOVE to forget Spurrier, could you please find some men in black de-nuerolizer for me...PLEEEEEEASE??????

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

I think the biggest thing between the two, is Zorn knows how to handle NFL players. According to Tim Hasselbeck Spurriers biggest issue was he treated the players like grown men, they took advantage of it and it lost the locker room for him. I also think Spurrier needed to be more aggressive in acquiring talent. We had some bad players on that team. Trung Candidate as a starting RB? Shane Matthews? Considering the points he put up, his offense wasn't absolutely terrible.

I think Zorn knows the NFL, knows the players. I just want to know how he calls games and deals with the day to day responsibilities of being a head coach.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

[quote=jsarno;462949]Could not disagree more...you forget that we were predicted to win the Super Bowl in 99, and especially 2000. Those were both Turner years.
Also, while in hindsight we understand our team was not that great during the Spurrier era, we all thought it a playoff caliber team. Problem is, like a ship without a rudder, with poor coaching means it's going no where.



Very true.


Oh, and first down...I would LOVE to forget Spurrier, could you please find some men in black de-nuerolizer for me...PLEEEEEEASE??????[/quote]

I agree, Turner's teams definitely were not completely lacking in talent. He had a few teams that underachieved considering the talent level. And he had a say in personnel too. Drafting Shuler was his call, so the no talent excuse doesn't really fly to me.

Re: I believe Zorn belongs
 

I think Zorn will do a good job and I hope he does a great job here. He definitely has shown already that he is as good as any of the other candidates. Between OTA's and pushing the rookie WR's and teaching JC I am positive not another one(even GW) could have come through any better to this point. Remember Gibbs started 0-5 his first time but I am expecting at least 3-2 or 4-1 from this team. ( As high on the Skins as I am, I just don't believe the Giants or Cowboys are going to have anywhere near the seasons they did last year, and we played even or better against them then, I just don't know where Philly will be so that may be one loss possibly)

And as for the other coaches between Gibbs 1 and Gibbs 2, they all were essential to showing Snyder what NOT to chase after.