Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

I agree with Matty--find me a losing team that doesn't have this kind of issue. Find me a winning team that does.

Seems to me Zorn takes plenty of responsibility, but he certainly calls out players as well. Very different from Gibbs, who stuck to the "they played their guts out, I take the blame" line. This is growing pains. Zorn will get better at it, and players will either come around or pack their bags.

(All bets are off, of course, if Danny and Vinny meddle. And no one would be surprised if they do.)

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=irish;510566]Its no wonder the players react to the head coach the way they do. The coaching authority in this organization has never really been solid (except for Gibbs) and often times its been undermined. The players are smart enough to recognize that and will take their shots because they know that management is likely to side with them over the coaches. That's just the way this organization works and why they continue to be mediocre. The inmates are running the asylum.[/quote]

yeah i think offensive guys who have been here for awhile like moss and portis have lost some confidence in the redskins organization to put together a real contender given our stretch of average. which in some way could be a good thing b/c it shows they have expectations of greatness and believe in each other as players, just getting frustrated that the pieces are there but the front office just cant seem to put the pieces together right.

i d rather have players strive for greatness and be disappointed when that greatness is not realized, then have players who come into a season with low expectations and dont get mad when they lose.

go skins!!

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;510569]But if the players aren't executing whats wrong with saying it? He has never called out a player by name and is also quick to praise players when they do well. If professional athletes can't handle critisim then they probably aren't guys that are going to help you win.[/quote]There's nothing wrong with drawing attention to screw-ups by the players. I just wish he was more forthcoming about his own mistakes and those of his coaching staff. I don't insist that Zorn be a clone of Joe Gibbs, but a little collective responsibility would be nice. If I had to choose a person to blame for our problems right now and the choices were Portis and Zorn, I wouldn't choose Portis.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;510585]Lack of execution can also come from flawed schemes. Players can't execute when a linebacker and safety are overloading oneside of the line. A play call must be changed in that instance. The Ravens game is the first game I saw Zorn counteract this. This has been going on since the Pittsburgh game. I think he is a good coach just a first year coach is all.[/quote]Precisely. It's not Clinton Portis' fault that Zorn and Bugel decided it would be a good idea to match Geisinger one-on-one with Terrell Suggs.

I have no problem with coaches publicly criticizing players -- so long as they treat themselves and the entire coaching staff similarly. Either everyone gets criticized publicly [when they deserve it] or you go with the "we all lose together" mantra of Joe Gibbs. Publicly criticizing the players is only acceptable if coaches get the same.

And anyone who thinks the coaching doesn't deserve a decent share of the blame for the team's current problems isn't watching the games.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

PFT is the NFL version of the National Enquirer. Who knows if Zorn lost the locker room but you will never determine that by reading PFT's fictional depictions.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=celts32;510600]PFT is the NFL version of the National Enquirer. Who knows if Zorn lost the locker room but you will never determine that by reading PFT's fictional depictions.[/quote]That's a good point. This report is plausible, but it must still be regarded warily, considering the source.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=over the mountain;510594]yeah i think offensive guys who have been here for awhile like moss and portis have lost some confidence in the redskins organization to put together a real contender given our stretch of average. which in some way could be a good thing b/c it shows they have expectations of greatness and believe in each other as players, just getting frustrated that the pieces are there but the front office just cant seem to put the pieces together right.

i d rather have players strive for greatness and be disappointed when that greatness is not realized, then have players who come into a season with low expectations and dont get mad when they lose.

go skins!![/quote]

I doubt the current FO understands how to put together a real contender. In 10 years of ownership (I cant wait for the patches on the jerseys) they havent shown they can. They will add talent here and there and spend enough $ to stay around 8-8 but they dont get that teams build from within and not by plugging in the best available FA talent. IMO, no player that really want to win a championship would come to the Skins as a FA with how the team is currently run. They might come after winning a championship to get paid but the players are smart enough to know the Skins just arent built to be a title contender.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

Like somebody already stated, in a winning organization there is no finger pointing, a losing team, well you know. Anyway, the point I'd like to make is this : the finger I'd like to point is at the management. They are responsible for keeping an overaged line on both sides of the ball that was sufficient for the first half of the season, but because of their collective age, is now worn down, broken down and completly ineffective. That is where the lack of execution originates. No blocking against the pass rush, no holes for the running game, and no pass rush on defense. It has become a total breakdown in the trenches, where the game is won and lost. So in my oppinion, (and yes I know that it does not count for much), the blame does not lie with Zorn, Campbell, Portis, it lies with Vinny and Danny. I just hope they recognize and correct this problem in the offseason.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

Matty's right about what happens in losing situations. The real test comes this weekend, and not just whether we win but how we win and players' attitude. We need a solid win, period. And it's ok if there's some friction between the HC and the players. Animosity is bad altogether, but a little friction that challenges the players to "prove the asshole wrong" and really go out and execute is a good thing. I think in a way it's what we've seen in NY, Coughlin isn't anyone's friend, but u bet your ass the players have a heap of respect for the iron-willed man at the head of the ship. Time will tell what kind of relationship/coaching style Zorn develops over the group.

The bigger, scarier issue like many have said is whether Danny and Vinny meddle in all this business. Goddamnit if they fire Zorn at the end of the season I hope they can't even find a replacement (because nobody wants to work for them).

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

Maybe, I'm crazy?

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

I agree with you goat on keeping Zorn. I also believe that I would rather have a hard nosed coach like Caughlin, than a buddy buddy softy like Grimmace Phillips in Dalass..

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

Win teams do not win it is easy to start pointing fingers intead of looking inward and trying to fix the problems.

Zorn deserves a chance. If the Skins let him go after the first year then they are in my opinion idiots. We will never be an elite team or a consistent winner if we do not start building some consistency within the organization.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

It's interesting that Pro Football Talk is dismissed around here as a know-nothing site every time they say something critical about the Redskins - - but when they something positive or laudatory, then they bring the gospel.

Maybe - - [I]just maybe [/I]- - there are indeed some significant flaws in the way this team is run in addition to the flaws in the way the team is contructed and the way the team is coached and the way the team has played the last month and a half.

On another point, someone said earlier that in the Gibbs 2.0 regime, there was solid coaching authority and this kind of stuff never happened then. Excuse me...
[INDENT]Did I imagine the incredible brouhaha involving LaVar Arrington and the coaching staff on minor matters such as should he play and should he freelance when he plays?

Was I the only one who heard some players questioning Mark Brunell as the starting QB?

Didn't Al Saunders admit that he called a play thinking Portis was in the game but that Portis had taken himself out and Saunders didn't know about it?[/INDENT]
Here is something Redskins fans have to live with. [I]The Redskins are not a highly disciplined organization in just about any facet of the management structure.[/I] The only thing that is certain is that Danny Boy will fire people whenever he feels like firing them. Other than that ...

This kind of story - - if it indeed has a source inside the Redskins - - is exactly the kind of story that the Skins plant as part of their process for firing a coach or and exec or a player. Keep your eyes and ears open; if you read a couple more of these stories unrelated to this Portis/Zorn spat, then be ready to watch Jim Zorn get fired unless he wins at least one playoff game.

That is the pattern of the past. And the best predictor of future behavior is - - past behavior.

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;510662]It's interesting that Pro Football Talk is dismissed around here as a know-nothing site every time they say something critical about the Redskins - - but when they something positive or laudatory, then they bring the gospel.[/quote]

Not true. People are consistenly skeptical of PFT here, regardless of the news

Re: Players cooling to Zorn
 

When does PFT say anything positive about anyone??