Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;921000]FYI -

Here is the search warrant affidavit in the Guereno case. His brothers were significant local drug dealers and the police suspected he, too, was involved in the drug dealing.
[url]http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20Document0582_000.pdf[/url][/quote]



You'll forgive me if I refuse to believe anything from a lying police agency. You want me to believe these guys were criminals, even though the police agency covered up their wrong doing and outright lied about what happened....lol


I have no doubt cops plant and falsify evidence, and I strongly would bet they are doing it here as well to cover their asses.

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/jose-guerena-pima-county-lawsuit_n_926454.html]Jose Guerena's Family Sues Pima County Over SWAT Raid Killing[/url]

[url=http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/family-s-ties-to-alleged-pot-ring-detailed/article_7aa21b04-49b9-5338-92bb-3092969902b8.html]Family's ties to alleged pot ring detailed : Welcome to StarNet - Tucson, Arizona[/url]

Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;921004]As to the opinion in the Barnes case (just read it), IMO the Court went too far and effectively emasculated the need for a search warrant to enter my home. Barnes said you are not permitted entry and that should have been it - unless Ms. Barnes specifically invited them in or articulated a fear for her own safety.[/quote]

How do idiot judges even make it that far up bringing down decisions like that? It goes against everything the law stands for. It's mind boggling and the moment those judges made that decision to pretty much make search warrants dispensable, they should have been removed from office.

Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

Even if I have the right to shoot back I think I'll listen to their comands and when the dust settles take care of any problems.

Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

Did you read the second article concerning the widespread nature of the conspiracy by the brothers? I am in no way suggesting that the actions that occurred in regards to Jose Guernrico's home invasion were proper police actions. At the same time, a little context goes a long way.

If you think the drug conspiracey is all a manufactured figment of the police's imagination ... fine. On the other hand, to me, and from the extent of the drug ring alleged, that's one hell of a paper trail to cover up (for example - creating hand written notes of one brother detailing sails of 10K pounds of marijuana). Is it your suggestion that the police planted over half a ton of marijuana in someone's home? Or that they are lying when they allege that the various family relations had property and assets worth $100K's with no verifiable form of legitimate income.

A lazy, dishonest police force- which is what this appeared at first blush - is one thing ... an actively corrupt force that is creating this kind of evidence with the expectation that it will hold up in court - which is what you appear to be alleging - is another. Not saying it couldn't happen, just saying it requires a lot of energy & competence to do.

Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;921021]Did you read the second article concerning the widespread nature of the conspiracy by the brothers? I am in no way suggesting that the actions that occurred in regards to Jose Guernrico's home invasion were proper police actions. At the same time, a little context goes a long way.

If you think the drug conspiracey is all a manufactured figment of the police's imagination ... fine. On the other hand, to me, and from the extent of the drug ring alleged, that's one hell of a paper trail to cover up (for example - creating hand written notes of one brother detailing sails of 10K pounds of marijuana). Is it your suggestion that the police planted over half a ton of marijuana in someone's home? Or that they are lying when they allege that the various family relations had property and assets worth $100K's with no verifiable form of legitimate income.

A lazy, dishonest police force- which is what this appeared at first blush - is one thing ... an actively corrupt force that is creating this kind of evidence with the expectation that it will hold up in court - which is what you appear to be alleging - is another. Not saying it couldn't happen, just saying it requires a lot of energy & competence to do.[/quote]


My reference was in the two articles I posted. Sure I believe they had a or suspected some of his family of drug dealing, but last time I checked, they didn't have any evidence from Jose Guernrico raid that ended up killing him. They may even been correct on the fact his family members were dealing drugs, but I also believe that they would implicate him to cover their tracks as to make their unlawful killing look legit. Not saying they did, just that I wouldn't put it past them.

Any police department that is willing to lie and coverup, is definitely willing to lie and manufacture evidence. I'm saying I don't believe anything they say in regards to Jose Guernrico.

Re: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;920993]Well, because you're an idiot, I would expect nothing less. ;)



I agree that the "protect the protectors" cry is moving ... to a point. My objection is not that we should do more to protect police but, rather, permitting additional violence in an inherently violent situation is akin to "two wrongs make a right". I also agree that in too many occasions the police fail to police themselves and there is a real lack of accountability. As I stated earlier, the way to combat this is not to ramp up the likelihood of a violent confrontation during a police break in but, rather, to hold the police more accountable once the violent situation has resolved itself. Hopefully, as peacefully as possible.

No matter how many protections you put in place, police will make mistakes. I would suggest that it is just as likely to cause them to think twice & to act with more alacrity to judge the correctness of their action if they know (1) if they are wrong, they are off the force; (2) if they are wrong, they may be personally responsible for the damages caused. Further, if a person is legal where they are supposed to be, they may be less likely to escalate a confrontation if they KNOW they will be fully compensated for the improper police action.

The key is that punishment must certain and that restitution must be full and swift. I know that is difficult to accomplish, but just b/c the right way is the hard way, that doesn't excuse taking the easy way out.[/quote]

I guess it ultimately comes down to if you believe the police will enforce discipline on their own in an appropriate way or not. I believe that too often they get a soft hand because they are supposed to be the good guys.