Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I definitely think LaVar would have some value, I don't think anybody would want him with his current deal but if he were to agree to sign a new deal upon being traded I definitely think there's a market for him.[/QUOTE]
Remember his new deal wouldnt be as bad to other teams. They'd have him with no signing bonus but with unguaranteed roster bonuses and unguaranteed salaries. His cap numbers would be this(i think)
year 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
cap 6950 3855 6455 9105 11305 12905
rb 6500 1950 3050 3700 5400 6000
assuming we trade him before 2006 roster bonus.
So they woudln't ever get dead space on their cap if they didn't want and would get a quality LB at a reasonable price for at least 3 years.
Not too bad at all really.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I agree on Ramsey, I am just not sold on the fact the Lavar has real trade value, but I do hope your right. :biggthump[/QUOTE]
What makes you think Lavar has no value? What we think of him means nothing. It is what GMs think. Do you see them thinking he isn't any good?

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Fatigue I am curious what does our offense have to be fatigued about? until the Tampa game [reg season] they did nothing, if anyone has the right to be tired it's our defense, and once again they overwhemingly outplayed our offense.[/QUOTE]

Right, because the offense has just been sitting on their asses at home for the past 8 weeks while the defense flew around the country winning games.

Fatigue means injuries, both serious and the little nagging things that add up over a season. Fatigue means you had the hardest schedule in the NFL and a 3rd week bye, so you've been getting clobberered for 13 weeks straight before the playoffs.

Fatigue means Randy Thomas. Ray Brown. Portis. Brunell. Thrash. Betts.

You think our offense is the most rested in the league? Because we had 2 bad playoff games? Did you think the Tampa game was a no-contact scrimmage?

You know what's sad is when fans decide to organize into "offense sucks" and "defense sucks" camps and try to kill each other. The entire team was tired and if you can't see that, well, you're blind.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

I say we need a BIG reciever next to moss. I would absolutly love Joe jurivisious. I think he will be a FA this year. I liked him before he became dominant and actually got him on my fantasy team early off FA.

Otherwise i want a DE through FA or Draft. I don't want a big name like Freeney. But Kyle Vandn bosh is a FA this year. HE did great this past year with 12.5 sacks. I guess he is now a "big name" but people really don't know him. I would also love Darren Howard as he is a FA too.

Trade wise i guess lavar is gone. He does have trade value. I say package lavar with ramsey(two of my favorite players so i hate this) and trade them together. I place that comes to mind is the raiders. I think we could get either Randy or Porter. I know it sounds crazy but either of them would be great next to Moss. Moss and moss on the same team? Randy moss IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT a bad character player. I have always thought he was misunderstood. Really no joke. Collins is old and it seems people aren't comfortable with him. Give the raiders a great LB to compliment that beast they have on the D-line(derrick burgess-16 sacks). I think it is possible but i am a little emotionally not in my head right now.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]
Trade wise i guess lavar is gone. He does have trade value. I say package lavar with ramsey(two of my favorite players so i hate this) and trade them together. I place that comes to mind is the raiders. I think we could get either Randy or Porter. I know it sounds crazy but either of them would be great next to Moss. Moss and moss on the same team? Randy moss IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT a bad character player. I have always thought he was misunderstood. Really no joke. Collins is old and it seems people aren't comfortable with him. Give the raiders a great LB to compliment that beast they have on the D-line(derrick burgess-16 sacks). I think it is possible but i am a little emotionally not in my head right now.[/QUOTE]

The problem with trading Lavar is the cap hit that the Skins would take. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but he was given a large signing bonus just a couple of years ago and any money remaining from that would be accelerated onto this years cap figure if he is cut or traded. Moreover, I wonder how interested teams would be in a linebacker who had what can only be called a down year but who will still want to be paid like a top flight linebacker. I know the team took a huge cap hit (like $9 million if I remember) by trading Coles last year so maybe they would be willing, but I'm just not sure how realistic it is cap wise (I do realize Lavar is due a $6.5 million roster bonus on July 1, so maybe it would make sense, but probably more as a post June 1 cap causalty than as pre-draft trade fodder).

I really think Ramsey is a much more attractive trade option. It seems pretty clear that he is the odd man out in the quarterback situation and he still has one year left on a very cap friendly contract. Plus he has starting experience and three years of NFL seasoning. The Jets come to mind immediately as a team that might be interested in a relatively cheap, young quarterback (Pennington's situation is up in the air and they probably don't want to draft a Vince Young/Matt Leinhart type - if either of those guys were even available at #4 - when they are still paying Pennington all that money). I kind of doubt the Jets would give up such a high pick in the second round (I guess they would have #36 overall) but maybe a third rounder for Ramsey could be worked out. The teams do have a past history of doing deals since they did swap out Moss for Coles last year.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

I think getting Moss for Coles this year was just some karmic payback for the shaft we took when we "stole" Hall and Morton from them. What a debacle that was.

I certainly hope we find another team to do business with next year. Let's not push our luck with the Jets.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=Big C]unless campbell shows huge strides, brunell will open the year as the starter. however, campbell will get atleast a little game time throughout the year. it is unlikely brunell will stay healthy enough to start all year again[/QUOTE]

I agree with this point. I worry about Brunell too, and the main thing I have found troubling over these past couple of weeks is the thought that Brunell might not be able to put together another season like this one next year and the Redskins might suffer as a result. I am not, however, ready to throw Mark out the door just yet. I think he made good decisions pretty much all year and the team would not have made it this far without him at the helm. As we all realize, Jason Campbell was drafted as the quarterback of the future, but the question becomes when exactly is that future? Given the fact that next year will probably be Gibbs's last I think the team really needs to stick with Brunell as long as he is physically able to perform. Clearly Campbell needs to be ready because Mark might not be able to stay healthy another year but Brunell needs to be the starter on opening day.

Someone made the analogy to Carson Palmer and Jon Kitna. Kitna did have a great year and was then benched in favor of Palmer, but Palmer did not suddenly take off that first year. He was hit and miss and the Bengals went 8-8...it was only in his second season as a starter that he really blossomed. Take a look at any of the guys that sat their first year and then came in to play (Palmer, Culpepper, McNair, Palmer, and even Byron Leftwich who took over for Brunell in Jacksonville), they did not light up the league that first year and they all made mistakes that cost their teams games. I guess you could point to Eli Manning and say he led the Giants to a 11-5 record (but of course Barber had 2,000+ yards from scrimmage) but he also played pretty terribly down the stretch and absolutely bombed in the playoffs. Moreover, all of those guys were Top 10 picks (well Culpepper was #11 - a pick the Vikings obtained from the Redskins in return for Brad Johnson by the way) and both Manning and Culpepper were the first overall selections. That is a long way from Jason Campbell who, by most accounts at least, was probably taken a bit high when the Redskins nabbed him at #25 - most people thought he was a second round pick who still needed some development. Now I am clearly not on the practice field or in the film room with the kid, so maybe he has really shown the coaches something, but I think Brunell probably gives the team the best chance to win and return to the playoffs. Put the pieces around him (as others have mentioned, O-Line depth, a second wideout - Patten is fine as a #3 but not a #2...like I said earlier, I'd love Reggie Wayne, but that might be asking too much) and let him - along with Coach Gibbs - give it one more go.

Re: Future Personnel/Team Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=dag]We have a desparate need at wide receiver. I would even consider Terrell Owens, but only for a one-year deal, with small bonus money, but heavy duty incentives. Basically make it so financially attractive for Owens to keep his mouth shut and be, well, if not a good teammate, at least not an awful teammate.

Medium term need is quarterback. We maybe get another year out of Brunell. But if they can be opportunistic and pick someone up in the 5th or 6th round, maybe take a chance. [/QUOTE]

I am probably in the majority when I say this, but under no circumstances do I think the Skins should bring in T.O. I understand what you are saying about the incentive laden deal, but a) would T.O. sign such a contract and b) do you really think he would keep his month shut for all the money in the world? He has already destroyed two franchises and crushed the psyche of two (Pro Bowl) Quarterbacks. He had the absolute perfect situation in Philadelphia. He was on a team with a perenial Pro Bowl QB and in an offense that throws the ball like 60% (or more) of the time yet he still could not find it within himself to SHUT THE HELL UP. He is not the guy you want to bring into the locker room of a team that - at least from the outside - seems to have developed some very good chemistry. He is poison - I keep thinking back to Jeff George in 2000 - and does not deserve another chance in the NFL. Moreover, considering Jason Campbell could potentially be making a push for the starting job (though I don't think he should get it) you really don't want T.O. around talking about how horrible the QB is and how he is always open and someone just needs to get him the ball.

On the second part. They have their future QB in Campbell so they don't need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to pick someone up in the 5th or 6th round. They need a veteran third stringer - a la Tim Hasselbeck - to man the sidelines. Marc Bulger and Tom Brady aside (can you believe they were in the same draft class?) you don't find too many QB gems that late...you are more likely to end up with Sage Rosenfels...or worse...

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=dgack]Right, because the offense has just been sitting on their asses at home for the past 8 weeks while the defense flew around the country winning games.

Fatigue means injuries, both serious and the little nagging things that add up over a season. Fatigue means you had the hardest schedule in the NFL and a 3rd week bye, so you've been getting clobberered for 13 weeks straight before the playoffs.

Fatigue means Randy Thomas. Ray Brown. Portis. Brunell. Thrash. Betts.

You think our offense is the most rested in the league? Because we had 2 bad playoff games? Did you think the Tampa game was a no-contact scrimmage?

You know what's sad is when fans decide to organize into "offense sucks" and "defense sucks" camps and try to kill each other. The entire team was tired and if you can't see that, well, you're blind.[/QUOTE]


Look if you want to feed yourself excuses on why we lost go right ahead, whatever gets you through the day, but our defense was tired from all the 3 and outs from our offense, and still played outstanding, now if your going to tell me running on and off the field will wear an offense out then I stand corrected, they must be the most over worked offense in the playoffs.

And just for the record, Fatigue in no wise coincides with injuries, how you conclude that a backup who hardly play's all season is now burnt because he's had to play 3 games in a row is rational I am not qualified to comprehend, but good luck with it! :biggthump

I will agree with you I will not go into the offense sucks camps, and here's the proof, our offense is great, it's the reason we made the playoffs, lucky for our defense, if they had to win a game on their own we'd be sunk, again lets have a big round of applause for the best offensive display's seen in recent playoff history. :towel:

How Seattle survived losing the league MVP early in the first to injury, I mean fatigue, is beyond me?

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

We will trade Ramsey for a draft pick. We will need to pick up a DE in the free agent market or draft some young guy. We need depth on O line to replace Raymer and Brown.
We will draft or trade for #2 receiver.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

Let's not forget we may be needing a FS come the start of next season.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

this may be a moot point now but why was raymer even in the game?he is a center by trade with moliniaro being a back up guard.raymer was way out of position being way too small to play guard.our offensive line play was horrible the last 2 weeks and we need a flat out pass rusher

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

I would imagine we can all agree that Brunell isn't really the "QB of the future" for the Skins, primarily because of his age. I would assume that Brunell stays on next year and starts - but what is everyone's take on when he'll leave? Do you think it will take a major injury or a really lousy season for him to leave, or will there be some other kind of transition to J. Campbell or another QB?

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

Barring injury Brunell should and will go into the season as the starter.. Hey, he did more than ANYONE on this board thought he would do.. If before the season, hell even in like week 3, someone would have said he would have 3000+ yds and 20+TD they would have been run off the board.. I think he has 6-8 more good games in him. Campbell isn't going to beat him out in camp but needs to be IMPRESESSIVE in the preseason to give the team confidence that he will do well when he plays. Brunell isn't going to be healthy for 16 games again and guys quit fooling yourselves [b][i][u]RAMSEY IS NOT GOING TO BE A REDSKIN IN '06[/b][/i][/u] so the development of Campbell needs to be the focus of Gibbs, Breaux and Musgrave this spring & summer.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Look if you want to feed yourself excuses on why we lost go right ahead, whatever gets you through the day, but our defense was tired from all the 3 and outs from our offense, and still played outstanding, now if your going to tell me running on and off the field will wear an offense out then I stand corrected, they must be the most over worked offense in the playoffs.

And just for the record, Fatigue in no wise coincides with injuries, how you conclude that a backup who hardly play's all season is now burnt because he's had to play 3 games in a row is rational I am not qualified to comprehend, but good luck with it! :biggthump

I will agree with you I will not go into the offense sucks camps, and here's the proof, our offense is great, it's the reason we made the playoffs, lucky for our defense, if they had to win a game on their own we'd be sunk, again lets have a big round of applause for the best offensive display's seen in recent playoff history. :towel:

How Seattle survived losing the league MVP early in the first to injury, I mean fatigue, is beyond me?[/QUOTE]


I can't even understand the points you're trying to make, much less debate them. You're one of these guys who wants to point fingers, and that's fine, it's a free country. To me that reeks of bandwagon jumper, but whatever gets you through the season.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

Don't know why this is even debatable. Brunell is the starter next year. He'll have an even better season next season when we have a deep threat WR to compliment Santana Moss.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

Brunell probably gives us the best chance to win right now. He is getting older, but he is still a lot more mobile than most QBs and I dont know if Campell will be ready by next year. Get some more weapons and I think Brunell will be fine for another season. After that, Campell can come in with two seasons of learning under his wing and make an immediate impact. Starting him next year would seem as if we were kind of in the rebuilding stage, which is not what we are right now. I just don't think he is ready yet since he was our third QB this year. Next year he will be our 2nd with Ramsey proabably gone so he would get a lot more looks and practice time. I actually think we are in a great situation because we are primed to win now and have a young QB who can come in after one more year and pick things up right where we left off.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

i disagree with the unquestioned start brunell opinions ;)

why not have an OPEN competition and let that decide it, giving JC the edge (since he's the youngest and potentially most talented)? brunell is 36 and not getting younger, he's TERRIBLE when injured and wore down a bit towards the end of the season. Last year we had an unquestioned starter and we saw how well that worked out, so i think letting the best man win is a better approach this year since none of the three are really that far ahead of the others right now.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

I agree pretty much with paintrain I think you keep J.Trash for back up and S.T.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

the best way to teach an NFL QB is trial by fire

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

hmmm...

I haven't posted here since the preseason.

I certainly enjoyed watching the year.

Long time skins fan...

I say trade Ramsey. (he is worthless...at least to me)

get rid of antonio brown and farris.

Patten is an acceptable 3rd, but if we could replace him with a better WR...by all means, please do...he didn't show me anything.

Obviously a #2 reciever is an absolute must. I agree with finding a mean DE. One Solid Backup for D-Line to plug the middle. A mean hitting safety to accompany Taylor. and 2 O-lineman.

Keep Lavar Arrington.

Keep Ladell, cut Rock and develop Nemo.

Jason Campbell gets the Nod @ QB. Brunell a solid back up. 3rd string QB TBD.

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

[QUOTE=everest2k]hmmm...

I haven't posted here since the preseason.

I certainly enjoyed watching the year.

Long time skins fan...

I say trade Ramsey. (he is worthless...at least to me)

get rid of antonio brown and farris.

Patten is an acceptable 3rd, but if we could replace him with a better WR...by all means, please do...he didn't show me anything.

Obviously a #2 reciever is an absolute must. I agree with finding a mean DE. One Solid Backup for D-Line to plug the middle. A mean hitting safety to accompany Taylor. and 2 O-lineman.

Keep Lavar Arrington.

Keep Ladell, cut Rock and develop Nemo.

Jason Campbell gets the Nod @ QB. Brunell a solid back up. 3rd string QB TBD.[/QUOTE]

lavar can't be kept under his current contract, 12mill to stay, 5mill to go and we're 10-18 over the cap. Rock is cheap and good to have cause betts gets hurt. Also patten averaged 3 catches and 30 yards a game by himself, once he was gone, moss's numbers went down and the ENTIRE WR corp outside moss averaged 0.5catches a game. He didn't show much, but once he was gone, it was painfully obvious that he did have an impact.

Which means we should definately get another WR since cheap guys will be out there, cause farris and a brown did nothing and TJ is a waste (no confidence, but plenty of excuses).

Re: Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)
 

Are you sure that right about LaVar. It doesnt seem so . I know his cap is 12 million this year but alot of that can be pro-rated over the lenght of the contract .... though not enough . I know we would eat a major cap hit if we cut him before june 1st and after it meens squat.

I have heard rumours that LaVar was on Comcast stating he would be willing to restucture and things have been put in place to get the wheels turing on that . If he was to reduce his salary (I am guessing but around 2-3 milion) and take the rest as a prorated bonus over the remaider of the contract (2011) it would help us out alot and give him a cap hit of aroun 3-5 millon this year . With the obvious cuts that should give us enough cap room for some wiggle room .

The other person who need to look at restucring is Brunell I would love to keep him around for another year and he can really help the team out though by taking a little of the bite out of the back loaded end of his contract .

Ramsey I just cannot se returning unless he wants to play for backup like money with a new contract .