Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]You must be talking about the fans trashing him because I've never heard anyone in the organization trash him. Gibbs has always supported him publicly.[/QUOTE]

votes of confidence like immediately giving a gigantic contract (and a draft pick) to another team for brunell. waiting forever to bench brunell. naming ramsey the starter and immediately drafting a 1st round QB. letting ramsey play 10minutes and benching him again for the year. then spending the offseason talking up campbell and how its time for him to step up now.

publicly, gibbs's actions have thrashed him in about every way possible ;)

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]votes of confidence like immediately giving a gigantic contract (and a draft pick) to another team for brunell. waiting forever to bench brunell. naming ramsey the starter and immediately drafting a 1st round QB. letting ramsey play 10minutes and benching him again for the year. then spending the offseason talking up campbell and how its time for him to step up now.

publicly, gibbs's actions have thrashed him in about every way possible ;)

[/QUOTE

I do agree with you there. not a lot of confidence building in those actions!

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]votes of confidence like immediately giving a gigantic contract (and a draft pick) to another team for brunell. waiting forever to bench brunell. naming ramsey the starter and immediately drafting a 1st round QB. letting ramsey play 10minutes and benching him again for the year. then spending the offseason talking up campbell and how its time for him to step up now.

publicly, gibbs's actions have thrashed him in about every way possible ;)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, so no one ever said "we don't like Patrick" but they've made it plenty obvious over the last 2 years. You just keep adding quarterbacks who are clearly there to replace him. Oh, I mean "compete" with him. The writing has been on the wall since Brunell got his huge contract. It was obvious then that Patrick wasn't going to be the starter. The Redskins have made it obvious they don't like/want/trust Patrick since Joe got there. So because they didn't publicly tear him down that means that they didn't trash him? Come on.

I'm not going to sit back and act like it's all Gibbs's fault. Patrick could have played so well that it was undeniable that you leave him in. Howevever, in 04 Brunell made it undeniable that he couldn't play and he got like 10 weeks to suck before he got yanked. Ramsey got one half where he had 2 turnovers and then it was over for him. He really hasn't been given much of a shot since Gibbs got here, and that's fine, I just think they should let him move on.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

We better start hearing about some cap reduction moves or this team is in some serious trouble!

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]We better start hearing about some cap reduction moves or this team is in some serious trouble![/QUOTE]

You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing. Are we just going to wait and see if the CBA gets extended? They have till Friday to get under the cap and haven't made any moves to get rid of people yet. I think it might be time to think about that.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]What is a joke is the way people bitch and moan about Ramsey and how he always throws picks, he isn't going to lead us to the big game, he cant win against good teams, holds the ball to long, doesn't throw it away enough blah, blah blah. Then when we go and trade him or attempt to, those same people say hes worth a 2nd through 4th round pick. come on people. we are lucky to get a 6th rounder, especially for a player going into his 5th season and has statistically played 1 full season. 10-14 as a starter, around 50% or so completion percentage and around 70 QB rating. What makes you think he is worth more than a sixth, because we drafted him in the first, so what. What did san diego get when they traded leaf to the cowboys. I doubt it was anything about a 4th.[/QUOTE]

Tell me you didn't just compare Patrick Ramsey to Ryan Leaf!

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

I think this is just hearsay from clayton. We aren't making any deals until after the collective bargin deal is made. I think its gonna be Abraham for Ramsey and a sixth round. ESPN often just says BS to ignite a fire for teams nothing more

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]You must be talking about the fans trashing him because I've never heard anyone in the organization trash him. Gibbs has always supported him publicly.[/QUOTE]


OK Matty, now I have heard everything!

Are you trying to make a case that Gibbs hasen't made this guy look as if he doesn't even know what a football looks like? Gibbs has treated him like a red headed step child, and torn him apart with his actions from day 1, while signing his praises when it doesn't count. Kind of like when we take an ass kicking and he lets everyone know how we fought our guts out, who are we kidding?


Bottom line, Ramsey is far more valuable than anything a 6th rd pick could bring back, especially the way we draft in the later rounds.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]OK Matty, now I have heard everything!

Are you trying to make a case that Gibbs hasen't made this guy look as if he doesn't even know what a football looks like? Gibbs has treated him like a red headed step child, and torn him apart with his actions from day 1, while signing his praises when it doesn't count. Kind of like when we take an ass kicking and he lets everyone know how we fought our guts out, who are we kidding?


Bottom line, Ramsey is far more valuable than anything a 6th rd pick could bring back, especially the way we draft in the later rounds.[/QUOTE]

Has Gibbs [u]said[/u] anything about him publicly that could be classified as "trashing" him?

That's all I was saying.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]Tell me you didn't just compare Patrick Ramsey to Ryan Leaf![/QUOTE]

you people take words and run with them dont you. I dont even have to answer that question do I.

The situation, not the player. 1st round pick who didn't pan out w/ the team that drafted them. Player that everyone thought or thinks will improve w/ a change of scenery. Player that has the arm to succeed.
come on, do you think I would compare careers, not even close

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

You know Mods, we probably could consolidate the top three threads (not CBA) into one. We're kinda discussing the same issue from different angles on all of them. :)

Who's better Brunell or Ramsey??

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

They've tried.....lol

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]They've tried.....lol[/QUOTE]

Yup, we've merged about 8,000 threads. I tried re-focusing the debate in a few threads. :frusty:

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

The 6th is not worth trading for, question is can his replacement be signed for less. besides whoever comes in won't know the offense at all. so if if his value is truley that low combine him with a pick and get a player of value.becuase whom ever we bring in will be useless the first year til they know the offense.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]The 6th is not worth trading for, question is can his replacement be signed for less. besides whoever comes in won't know the offense at all. so if if his value is truley that low combine him with a pick and get a player of value.becuase whom ever we bring in will be useless the first year til they know the offense.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey's replacement is already on the roster. Ramsey was the #2. Next season, our #2 will be either Brunell or Campbell. We should be able to get a #3 near or at the veteran minimum.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Ramsey's replacement is already on the roster. Ramsey was the #2. Next season, our #2 will be either Brunell or Campbell. We should be able to get a #3 near or at the veteran minimum.[/QUOTE]


I heard Sean Taylor got a court appointed attorney fairly cheap as well. ;)

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

From a cap perspective cutting/trading Ramsey will save us about $1.7M. While every little bit helps, this is chump change in the big picture. If there's no CBA, cutting Ramsey isn't gonna save us. And if there is a new CBA, we'll have enough restructure options that his $1.7M won't make a big difference.

So trading Ramsey for a 6th really does nothing to help our team, and probably hurts us as we'll lose a decent and experienced QB with a cheap contract for nothing.

Nevertheless I think Coach Gibbs is a stand-up guy and he's not gonna make Ramsey rot on our bench for another year. Especially not in the final year of his contract.

I think we'll end up trading him for whatever we can get - a 3rd, a 6th, or a couple kicking tees.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]celts32,of all the qbs you have named,who holds any value?culpepper and brees are injured(both pretty severely)kitna and griese are both HORRIBLE and simms is a rfa that will probably have his contract extended.would you want any of these guys as a starter here in washington?[/QUOTE]


Brees and Culpepper are both suposedly going to be fine. brees injury was never career threatening. Culpepper did his knee good but he is a QB so it's not like he will need the same recovery time that a RB would need under similar circumstances. When healthy I would love to have Brees, Culpepper or Simms over Ramsey. I don't even see how that is up for discussion. I don't think I am out on a limb saying that they all have shown more in the NFL than Ramsey has.

As for the other guys I mentioned...I don't love Kitna or Griese but they have done some good things in the NFL and probably have close to the same value as Ramsey. The only thing Ramsey has on those guys is that he's younger and some teams may feel he has a higher ceiling.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]I think this is just hearsay from clayton. We aren't making any deals until after the collective bargin deal is made. I think its gonna be Abraham for Ramsey and a sixth round. ESPN often just says BS to ignite a fire for teams nothing more[/QUOTE]

were not getting JA and a pick for ramsey... both teams are about to ditch players anyways, but JA is way above ramsey (and we're cap constrained now). JA may be going to the texans with a #1 and a #2 so the jets can get leinhart though...

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=irish]Simms got his team to the playoffs this year so he's not bad. PR could not even beat out an old geezer for the starting job with the skins.

The skins are lucky to even get a 6th round pick for PR. He's had a million chances and just could not get it done. The skins should take this offer and let everyone move on.[/QUOTE]


maybe if he had a fair shot.....he got robbed when gibbs came back

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]There are seven or eight teams badly in need of QB help. To garner a three, it only takes a couple of GMs with a higher opinion on Ramsey than yours (which obviously isn't high given that list of damaged goods and marginally competant list of "starting QBs" you offered).[/QUOTE]

If the skins get a 3 for Patrick I will eat my hat.

I would take Drew Brees as the Redskins starting QB right now. He is young and proven...and while we all hope Jason Campbel is good we just don't know. One injury makes Brees damaged goods? Football players get injured. pennington is damaged goods becasue he had the same injury twice in a row. Brees had one injury like most players in the NFL do eventually. if you don't think he has value then just wait and see how long those damaged goods last on the free agency market. I realize it's not going to happen with Brees in DC...the skins are going to groom Campbel but trashing more accomplished players does not improve Ramsey's value. Ramsey is worth what they can get and if that's only a #6 then that's his worth.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=celts32]If the skins get a 3 for Patrick I will eat my hat.

I would take Drew Brees as the Redskins starting QB right now. He is young and proven...and while we all hope Jason Campbel is good we just don't know. One injury makes Brees damaged goods? Football players get injured. pennington is damaged goods becasue he had the same injury twice in a row. Brees had one injury like most players in the NFL do eventually. if you don't think he has value then just wait and see how long those damaged goods last on the free agency market. I realize it's not going to happen with Brees in DC...the skins are going to groom Campbel but trashing more accomplished players does not improve Ramsey's value. Ramsey is worth what they can get and if that's only a #6 then that's his worth.[/QUOTE]

brees and culpepper are probably signing with their current teams. if the cba passes, griese will probably continue as a buc, and no one is going to take simms for a 1st and a 3rd (it'd only make sense for teams with low first round picks, and they tend not to have such dire QB problems to need an average QB so desperately).

It's actually possible ramsey could be the shortlist this year. Right now no one wants to do anything till they figure out about the CBA and the new cap though.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=celts32]Brees and Culpepper are both suposedly going to be fine. brees injury was never career threatening. Culpepper did his knee good but he is a QB so it's not like he will need the same recovery time that a RB would need under similar circumstances. When healthy I would love to have Brees, Culpepper or Simms over Ramsey. I don't even see how that is up for discussion. I don't think I am out on a limb saying that they all have shown more in the NFL than Ramsey has.

As for the other guys I mentioned...I don't love Kitna or Griese but they have done some good things in the NFL and probably have close to the same value as Ramsey. The only thing Ramsey has on those guys is that he's younger and some teams may feel he has a higher ceiling.[/QUOTE]

There is no question that Brees and Culpepper are vastly superior quarterbacks than Ramsey. But, they also want a sh-tload of money. Griese and Kitna may be more proven quarterbacks, but they're also (as you pointed out) old.

What I just can't understand is how A.J. Feeley gets Philly a 2nd round pick whereas Ramsey gets the Skins a 6th rounder. Yes I know the Dolphine overpaid. I also know that this year's free agent QB crop is good. But, the difference between a 2nd and a 6th is amazing.

I am sure there is some reasonable justification for the difference in compensation, I just haven't heard it yet.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=jordanz301]maybe if he had a fair shot.....he got robbed when gibbs came back[/QUOTE]
He got robbed how? By gagging in '04 training camp and playing like a scared freshman in the preseason? By not looking much better in the '05 preseason and turning the ball over twice and fumbling another time in 2 quarters of the opener? I'm so over the 'Ramsey never got a shot' crap.. If he flat out was the dominant QB, played lights out in the camps and preseasons since Gibbs was here and still was riding the pine then I could see the argument, but it's the NFL, step up or step out..

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]There is no question that Brees and Culpepper are vastly superior quarterbacks than Ramsey. But, they also want a sh-tload of money. Griese and Kitna may be more proven quarterbacks, but they're also (as you pointed out) old.

What I just can't understand is how A.J. Feeley gets Philly a 2nd round pick whereas Ramsey gets the Skins a 6th rounder. Yes I know the Dolphine overpaid. I also know that this year's free agent QB crop is good. But, the difference between a 2nd and a 6th is amazing.

I am sure there is some reasonable justification for the difference in compensation, I just haven't heard it yet.[/QUOTE]

dolphins were idiots. never assume malevolence where stupidity will do.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]dolphins were idiots. never assume malevolence where stupidity will do.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. That was one of the dumbest moves ever.

I could care less about what Ramsey is worth for Ramsey's sake. I guess I'm just too disappointed that our team couldn't get anything better (assuming Clayton's story is correct). We really need draft picks and I was hoping we could at least get a 4th or 5th rounder.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]John Clayton just said on ESPN radio at about 8:35 a.m. that the Jets would get Ramsey more than likely for a lousy 6th round pick. If we can't get at least a 3rd rounder for Ramsey I say we just keep him. Freakin 6th round pick, that's pretty much just throwing him away for no compensation![/QUOTE]

If this is true you are right! Better to keep him for another year in case Burnell get hurt or can't get the job done! Then we will think about next season when it comes! :coach:

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

how pissed is ramsey going to be if he has to stay on another year? Woof.


I think it is obvious that ramsey even as a third QB is worth more to us than a 6th.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]how pissed is ramsey going to be if he has to stay on another year? Woof.


I think it is obvious that ramsey even as a third QB is worth more to us than a 6th.[/QUOTE]

I don't care how pissed he is...If I was running the show a 6th is not exceptable! If something happens to Burnell I need a back up plan. WE all know that the back up QB is just one hit away from your starter and he may just beat Burnell out! What is good for the Redskins and a 6th pick is not!! He will be a man and do what is needed because he is a stand up guy!

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

With the quality of the free agent QB's Ramsey doesn't have much value. Players like Brooks, McNair, Pennington, and Brees are hurting his value. But.... if those plyers stay with their respective teams or get picked up early in free agency and their is still a demand for qb vet then ramseys value goes up


Free Sean Taylor

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=dirthogs311]With the quality of the free agent QB's Ramsey doesn't have much value. Players like Brooks, McNair, Pennington, and Brees are hurting his value. But.... if those plyers stay with their respective teams or get picked up early in free agency and their is still a demand for qb vet then ramseys value goes up


Free Sean Taylor[/QUOTE]:welcome: :grouphug: :boxing: :bdh: :drink :welcome: :grouphug: :stop: :cheeky-sm :silly: :pimp: :woot: :laughing- :laughing2 :headbange :lol: :biggthump :drink :food-smil :laughing2 :lol: :towel: :headbange :welcome: :grouphug: :drink :cool-smil :D :tongue :cheeky-sm :silly: :pimp: :owned: :woot: :smashfrea :laughing2 :point: :headbange :food-smil :towel: :lol: :food-smil :drink :tongue :D :thumb: :pimp: :bdh: :drink :welcome: :woot: :point: :headbange :lol: :biggthump :Flush: :woot: :laughing2 :headbange :Flush: :party-smi :woot: :welcome:

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]There is no question that Brees and Culpepper are vastly superior quarterbacks than Ramsey. [/QUOTE]

First, try to imagine that Ramsey had played in San Diego and Drew Brees here in 2002 and 2003 with Spurrier and with the Gibbs' 2004 offense.

Then, bear in mind that Drew Brees' arm strength was barely adequate [u]before[/u] the torn labrum in his throwing shoulder.

As for Culpepper, if the Vikes are ready to cut him loose after his surgery isn't it likely that they might know what they're doing?

The only thing "vastly superior" about Brees and Culpepper over Ramsey is their reputations.

Ramsey, Schaub and Volek (I think his knee surgery was minor) are the QBs who have an upside and might be worth the price if available.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

if you look over the stats, volek looks great, schaub looks pretty bad and ramsey is somewhere in between.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]if you look over the stats, volek looks great, schaub looks pretty bad and ramsey is somewhere in between.[/QUOTE]

If you look at wins and losses Ramsey looks much better than Volek, but individual stats can be very deceptive, particularly the QB stats. I think you have to watch them play and then try to adjust your grade according to the system and personnel they had to work with.

I wonder how Tom Brady's stats would look if he had played for Spurrier?

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]if you look over the stats, volek looks great, schaub looks pretty bad and ramsey is somewhere in between.[/QUOTE]

I got a theory on this. I think that if a CBA is reached and the Redskins can get under the cap without involving Ramsey than they will keep him. The reasoning being that with guys like Volek, Schuab, Brees, Garcia, and other quality or manageable QB's out there, Gibbs will convince Ramsey that he will have a better chance of getting a good starting job with another team in 2007 where he'll have a better market. Gibbs has a way of convincing people, and on top of that he doesn't lie when he persuades you. The only team I could concievably see taking Ramsey is the Ravens. As far as the other main teams with interest heres what I think

Dolphins: Brees will sign with them. They're a quality QB away from being an elite team

Lions: Martz wants to prove he can make Joey a winner. On top of that I think Schuab might get a chance there before Ramsey.

Jets: They will draft one of the big 3 in the draft. Probably Cutler

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

since brunell is so young (in his prime) and our 3rd stringer is an expert in gibbs' offense; i think it'd be foolish not to trade a quality backup for a 6th rounder. i'm surprised we're jippin' them for that much! he's a real big hit to the cap too.........................................................................................................

quality backups aren't important these days...

......

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359] Gibbs has a way of convincing people, and on top of that he doesn't lie when he persuades you.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you'd convince Patrick of that.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]

Dolphins: Brees will sign with them. They're a quality QB away from being an elite team[/QUOTE]

Could be, but Brees is months away from testing that shoulder. Will he be strong enough to perform at 100% in 2006? Do the Dolphins wait or take a bird in the hand?

It depends on how they feel about Ramsey.

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]I don't care how pissed he is...If I was running the show a 6th is not exceptable! If something happens to Burnell I need a back up plan. WE all know that the back up QB is just one hit away from your starter and he may just beat Burnell out! What is good for the Redskins and a 6th pick is not!! He will be a man and do what is needed because he is a stand up guy![/QUOTE]

There's a guy by the name of Jason Campbell....maybe you heard of him?

Re: Clayton: A 6th round pick for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Could be, but Brees is months away from testing that shoulder. Will he be strong enough to perform at 100% in 2006? Do the Dolphins wait or take a bird in the hand?

It depends on how they feel about Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

Should have screwed the Dolphins in 2004 when we had a chance. Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard they offered a 1st round pick for Ramsey. Personally I believe this being that they gave an early 2nd round pick for AJ Feely.