Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]all of which had 4-5 full years as a starter before 35.[/quote]

Good point, but you are convinced that Todd Collins is not starter material.

And what about all the other stuff that I asked you about.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Let me reiterate: Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and Trent Green.

But I really wouldn't know if he is any good, just going by the what Saunders is saying about him.[/quote]

Okay, those are certainly exceptions, but again Collins has had how many starts in his career over a ten year span. Twenty??

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]get some more understanding? so i'm supposed to be pyschic and tell you how great you are now? no thanks. why don't you try articulating you thoughts better instead. You should be careful before intimating someone else is an idiot, cause that finger could very easily be pointed back at you.

and i was replying to you what-if, which for some reason, you think is a terrible offense. If you didn't want responses, then why did you post it?

saunders was asked about his QB situation, he had to say something in response. that was NOT an unprovoked statement, and he complimented campbell as well. you seem to be reading way too much into it though. gibbs and champ bailey and spurrier ALL said taylor jacobs was amazing, and we see how that turned out thusfar right? its an opinion, not gospel.[/quote]

Never called you an idiot, but I just didn't see the correlation to what you posted and what I was trying to say. It just seemed to be 2 different things of what you said and what I posted. We're not arguing or disagreeing about anything - it's 2 totally different discussions to me.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]Okay, those are certainly exceptions, but again Collins has had how many starts in his career over a ten year span. Twenty??[/quote]

I just am not sure that the games he started is the best way to measure how good he is.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[QUOTE][/QUOTE][quote=warriorzpath]I just am not sure that the games he started is the best way to measure how good he is.[/quote]

Then what is??

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Good point, but you are convinced that Todd Collins is not starter material.

And what about all the other stuff that I asked you about.[/quote]

what other things? people comparing betts to larry johnson? I'm pretty sure i've covered it.

about two discussions: I've been reading all kinds of hyped up posts the last two weeks and saw more of them here. I responded specifically to what was said here and posts in this thread. Maybe its not in the vein of the first posts, but discussions happen and threads shift focus... just look at any thread macolm's ever posted in ;).

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]and i was replying to you what-if, which for some reason, you think is a terrible offense. If you didn't want responses, then why did you post it?
[/quote]

I don't think the redskins offense is terrible - I never said that. You know what, I just am caught off guard by some of the assumptions of what I said and what was discussed.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]what other things? people comparing betts to larry johnson? I'm pretty sure i've covered it.

about two discussions: I've been reading all kinds of hyped up posts the last two weeks and saw more of them here. I responded specifically to what was said here and posts in this thread. Maybe its not in the vein of the first posts, but discussions happen and threads shift focus... just look at any thread macolm's ever posted in ;).[/quote]

It's just 2 different things to me. I felt like there was the qb discussion enveloped in the hype talk, but didn't know where all of this stuff was coming from. I think the qb situation/comparison from last year to this year was an interesting comparison and I didn't intend to hype up Collins - just reading into Saunders's comments more than a normal fan or columnist would do. If someone did that last year, someone could have predicted that brunell would have been starting for most of the year.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]Then what is??[/quote]

Actually seeing him play in a real game.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Actually seeing him play in a real game.[/quote]

Dude, he has played in a real game......

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]Dude, he has played in a real game......[/quote]

Have you seen him play ?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Have you seen him play ?[/quote]

I've kind of come in on the tail end of this thing, but if he was anything more than a career backup, you would think that someone else would have picked him up or he would have wanted to be traded to make some more cash than vet minimum.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]I don't think the redskins offense is terrible - I never said that. You know what, I just am caught off guard by some of the assumptions of what I said and what was discussed.[/quote]

:P terrible offense as in to you, personally (nothing at all to do with the skins)... i think you misread.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Have you seen him play ?[/quote]

No, I haven't but Al Saunders has.

In fact, he has started in 17, count them 17, NFL games.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]I've kind of come in on the tail end of this thing, but if he was anything more than a career backup, you would think that someone else would have picked him up or he would have wanted to be traded to make some more cash than vet minimum.[/quote]

well, he is making more than vet min, but i have yet to hear of a QB breaking out after 35 after showing no signs of life beforehand...

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]:P terrible offense as in to you, personally... i think you misread.[/quote]

Yup, I got that after rereading - but no it's not offensive to me. That's why I post - but there was a whole misunderstanding here that I probably don't want to revisit.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]No, I haven't but Al Saunders has.

In fact, he has started in 17, count them 17, NFL games.[/quote]

... and what has Al Saunders said about him.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]well, he is making more than vet min, but i have yet to hear of a QB breaking out after 35 after showing no signs of life beforehand...[/quote]

On a side note, I was looking at your band's site. Have you played with Lex Vegas yet?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]... and what has Al Saunders said about him.[/quote]

C'mon...must we go down that road?

Doesn't matter what Saunders has said. The real question is what has Collins shown in ten years??

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

No actually, the REAL question is WHY are we still talking about Collins prowess as a QB? We all know that Campbell will be #2 at season's beginning and Collins will be there to teach both Brunell and Campbell.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]well, he is making more than vet min, but i have yet to hear of a QB breaking out after 35 after showing no signs of life beforehand...[/quote]

There may be a first for everything. There hasn't been a hall-of-fame coach to ever come back and then win a playoff game before a couple years ago. And i'm not saying he is good - going by what Uncle Al is saying.

But was that posted in this thread (tmc's post) ?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

No disrespect at all warriorzpath, but there is most definitely a first time for everything, and monkeys could fly out of my butt.

The latter is just about as likely as Collins ever starting a game again barring injury. More than likely his career ends with the Redskins. He can completely tear it up in preaseason and still will sit the bench. He's a role player and will be the resident clipboard holder this year.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]No actually, the REAL question is WHY are we still talking about Collins prowess as a QB? We all know that Campbell will be #2 at season's beginning and Collins will be there to teach both Brunell and Campbell.[/quote]

I think we all knew that Ramsey - if anyone was - was going to lead us to the playoffs as qb last season.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]No disrespect at all warriorzpath, but there is most definitely a first time for everything, and monkeys could fly out of my butt.

The latter is just about as likely as Collins ever starting a game again barring injury. More than likely his career ends with the Redskins. He can completely tear it up in preaseason and still will sit the bench. He's a role player and will be the resident clipboard holder this year.[/quote]

Weren't we all saying the same thing last year about Brunell last offseason ?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Again though, realize I'm coming in that the end of this discussion, but to me it seems like a Collins love-fest (I could be totally wrong).

I'm glad the Skins got him, got he's here to teach, but I don't want to see him start a single game for us either.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]C'mon...must we go down that road?

Doesn't matter what Saunders has said. The real question is what has Collins shown in ten years??[/quote]

Have you personally seen what he has shown ? I haven't.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Weren't we all saying the same thing last year about Brunell last offseason ?[/quote]

Nah. I think we all just assumed Ramsey was going to be the starter and that was that. I'm not saying it's not possible, but Collins is a guy on the tail end of his career. If Collins starts at all, then I guarantee you it's because Brunell either played like shit or got hurt, and Campbell came in and got hurt.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[IMG]http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/6967/collins4jx.jpg[/IMG]

To me, this just kind of shows that he can throw more INTs than TDs when he gets to play a whole season.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Have you personally seen what he has shown ? I haven't.[/quote]

And the reason neither of us have seen him is because he aint that good!

There, I said it!! Collins is a bum!!!

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]Again though, realize I'm coming in that the end of this discussion, but to me it seems like a Collins love-fest (I could be totally wrong).

I'm glad the Skins got him, got he's here to teach, but I don't want to see him start a single game for us either.[/quote]

Why have you seen him play ? - you know I don't really care who plays as long it gets redskins winning and contending for the superbowl. But the point of this thread is: collins has a real chance to start and maybe a great qb in this situation. I personally don't care who starts - if brunell tears it up then let him lead the team, I will personally be first in line for the brunell-for-prez signups.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Ahhh, the point is that Collins has a real chance to start?

OK, now that I get it all, here's my answer:

He will have no chance to start at all. If it's not Brunell, it will be Campbell.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]And the reason neither of us have seen him is because he aint that good!

There, I said it!! Collins is a bum!!![/quote]

I guess I have a totally different perspective on football than some of you - I need to actually see (or experience) something before I make judgments. I haven't said he is good or bad.

Collins might be a bum, but all I am saying is Saunders (and therefore, the redskins) don't think so. If you are disagreeing with anyone, it is Saunders and the redskins.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Let's put things into perspective here. Collins hasn't seen meaningful playing time in nearly 10 years. Soak that one in for a moment.

There's a reason why he hasn't played, and it's not because he's been buried on the depth chart behind Trent Green.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible for him to be some sort of hidden gem, but if you really think Saunders brought him in here for anything more than just a clipboard holder, you're going to be really disappointed.

Brunell is the short term answer, Campbell is the long term answer. Collins doesn't fit into this equation at all unless it's due to injury. He might be #2 on the depth chart right now, but I predict Campbell will start the season listed as the #2 and Collins will look damn good in a baseball cap all season.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]I guess I have a totally different perspective on football than some of you - I need to actually see (or experience) something before I make judgments. I haven't said he is good or bad.

Collins might be a bum, but all I am saying is Saunders (and therefore, the redskins) don't think so. If you are disagreeing with anyone, it is Saunders and the redskins.[/quote]

They think he's "serviceable" which is a far cry from being a star. They brought him in because he knows the system. If they wanted to bring in a possible starting quality QB, they would have signed someone like Kitna.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]I guess I have a totally different perspective on football than some of you - I need to actually see (or experience) something before I make judgments. I haven't said he is good or bad.

Collins might be a bum, but all I am saying is Saunders (and therefore, the redskins) don't think so.[/quote]

Man, lighten up...will ya? Of course, I don't think Collins is a bum. And it's cool to have a different perspective on football. But at some point that point of view has to be tempered with some reality.

The truth is, Todd Collins has been somewhat of a journeyman throughout his career. Appearantly there is nothing special or amazing about him in any way.

I think Al Saunders likes his work ethic, and mainly his football acumen. Could he step in and having one amazing season? Sure it could happen. I think history has provided us with some truly amazing stories where no-name back-up quarterbacks have come in and done some special things.
I just wouldn't read too much into what Saunders said about Collins nor would I even expect him to getting any meaningful playing time.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Let's put things into perspective here. Collins hasn't seen meaningful playing time in nearly 10 years. Soak that one in for a moment.

There's a reason why he hasn't played, and it's not because he's been buried on the depth chart behind Trent Green.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible for him to be some sort of hidden gem, but if you really think Saunders brought him in here for anything more than just a clipboard holder, you're going to be really disappointed.

Brunell is the short term answer, Campbell is the long term answer. Collins doesn't fit into this equation at all unless it's due to injury. He might be #2 on the depth chart right now, but I predict Campbell will start the season listed as the #2 and Collins will look damn good in a baseball cap all season.[/quote]

Don't mean to be redundant, but some of you have your perspective - I have mine. I cannot judge anyone's abilities until I have seen them play. I won't be disappointed if he is a clipboard holder because I have no expectations of him - I haven't see him play. When I do - I will either say he is great, good, alright, or he sucks.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]Man, lighten up...will ya? Of course, I don't think Collins is a bum. And it's cool to have a different perspective on football. But at some point that point of view has to be tempered with some reality.

The truth is, Todd Collins has been somewhat of a journeyman throughout his career. Appearantly there is nothing special or amazing about him in any way.

I think Al Saunders likes his work ethic, and mainly his football acumen. Could he step in and having one amazing season? Sure it could happen. I think history has provided us with some truly amazing stories where no-name back-up quarterbacks have come in and done some special things.
I just wouldn't read too much into what Saunders said about Collins nor would I even expect him to getting any meaningful playing time.[/quote]

I can't lighten up - I don't take too much of these discussions too seriously in the first place. Most of my posts will mostly go against the grain of thought anyways. But I try have discussions about things that maybe some people haven't thought of - not always the ordinary redskins are going to kick so and so's ass all the time - though that's always fun.

But going back to your post - my reality is just that: seeing how good someone is. And I'm not and have never said he was good - yet.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]I can't lighten up - I don't take too much of these discussions too seriously in the first place. Most of my posts will mostly go against the grain of thought anyways. But I try have discussions about things that maybe some people haven't thought of - not always the ordinary redskins are going to kick so and so's ass all the time - though that's always fun.

But going back to your post - my reality is just that: seeing how good someone is. And I'm not and have never said he was good - yet.[/quote]

But you or I seeing him isn't going to change what he's already proven in his career. We may form some opinion about him, but it won't get him in the starting line-up when Sept. rolls around.

Let me ask you this - Let's say this guys lights it up this pre-season. Then what will you think??

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]On a side note, I was looking at your band's site. Have you played with Lex Vegas yet?[/quote]

not that i remember, though it's totally possible ;) if you know someone in the band, i'll say hi or whatnot.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Yeah, if you meet a guy named Ray Worth, tell him I said what's up. Ben from Lexington, a friend of Buskey.