I have never been that upset over our drafting the last 5 year or so. Every team has a few mistakes and passed up on someone better. By far and away the bigger off season mistakes has come in free agency, over blown contracts for aging players, and COACHING/ FO staffing. After having such a strong FO and coach for so many years, the revolving door has hurt the Skins far more then a few draft picks.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]In 2002, the Skins drafted:

Ladell Betts: 2nd Round
Rashad Bauman: 3rd Round
Cliff Russell: 3rd Round

What are people's thoughts on these picks - In the 20/20 of hindsight:

Were they good picks?

Will any pan out as being worth the cost?

Do you think they are just wasted picks?

I think the consensus is that Russell is a washout.

I don't know about Bauman - will he ever be more than a competent to good nickel back? Is he even that? If so, why load up on DB's of questionable quality? Not referring to Springs as one of the questionable CB's, but by getting Springs are the Skins acknowledging that Bauman can't be a starter?

As for Betts, obviously, he is no more than 2nd string right now - but say Portis gets injured, was Betts worth the 2nd rounder? Does he have the talent to step in and be a starting quality back? If given the opportunity, could he be a 1,200 yard back?

I look back at these picks and think "What a waste of high picks". Just wondering if anyone disagrees or thinks I am being to hasty.[/QUOTE]


the reason why we bulked up on db's if you didnt already notice... is because williams being our d-head coach. he will use alot of six db formations and he would like allot of some what talent on the field. walt and ralph along with bauman will be fighting for that nickel spot. and i think believe it or not, ralph brown may win it. i havent seen anyone talk about him on this site, but this guy did a pretty darn good job with the giants a year ago. but walt seems to be the front runner but he is getting old and injuries are starting to be a concern

Whenever I watched Brown he was getting beat. He did OK as a nickel back but when he was forced into a starting role I dont think he was up to the challenge. Hopefully no on will get hurt and he'll just be a talented dime back.

[QUOTE=offiss]....I personally didn't wan't to draft him (Taylor Jacobs) as well, for the same reason's you presented, and I also wanted Doss, but Doss isn't a world beater, but he will probably be better than what we had last year, You also have to take into account that not taking Doss really opened the door for us to take taylor, who will be an absolute monster for us....
Respectfully submitted on this day 5/20/04 By Douglas C. Niedermier sergent of arm's. :silly:[/QUOTE]

We could have Doss and Sean Taylor both. We could have been set at the safety position for many years. Plus Doss is making less than what we are paying Matt Bowen. We would have saved money on the Salary cap as well as upgrading the safety position.

Doss sucked last year, im glad we didnt draft him. He wont ever be an elite safety. Atleast Jacobs has the potential to be great, we havent had a chance to see him because of a freak injury. I wouldnt have been surprised if Jacobs took Gardners spot last year had he not been injured.

Would anyone take Doss over Taylor??

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Doss sucked last year, im glad we didnt draft him. He wont ever be an elite safety. Atleast Jacobs has the potential to be great, we havent had a chance to see him because of a freak injury. I wouldnt have been surprised if Jacobs took Gardners spot last year had he not been injured.[/QUOTE]

SKINSnCanes,
Your just bitter because Doss layed the big hit that busted Willis McGahee's knee in the Fiesta Bowl a couple of years ago. That hit set the tone for the defensive ass-kicking OSU put on your Canes. McGahee is still feeling that hit and it sound like... so are you. No hard feelings.
Doss had nine tackles and one interception in Fiesta Bowl win over Miami. He was named Big Ten Defensive Player-of-the-Year…was semi-finalist for Jim Thorpe, given to nation’s top DB.
He was a rookie last year and started on the AFC runner up. If he sucks, Bowen must give BJ's for beer money. Bowen was a career back up until last year. Doss was a rookie last year. Lets see what happens.

Doss over Taylor, stright up, absolutley not. If maybe we got him instead of Jacobs last year and drafted someone else with the #5 this year, I wouldnt have been opposed to that. I love Sean Taylor though, and thats who we have so its a moo point.

Doss is a great player, but I think Taylor Jacobs could far surpass Coles when it comes to raw talent. I thought Jacobs was a good pick and continue to think that. I'd take Jacobs/Taylor over Doss/Williams any day. I like both combos, but give me our current one, please!

[QUOTE=Defensewins]SKINSnCanes,
Your just bitter because Doss layed the big hit that busted Willis McGahee's knee in the Fiesta Bowl a couple of years ago. That hit set the tone for the defensive ass-kicking OSU put on your Canes. McGahee is still feeling that hit and it sound like... so are you. No hard feelings.
Doss had nine tackles and one interception in Fiesta Bowl win over Miami. He was named Big Ten Defensive Player-of-the-Year…was semi-finalist for Jim Thorpe, given to nation’s top DB.
He was a rookie last year and started on the AFC runner up. If he sucks, Bowen must give BJ's for beer money. Bowen was a career back up until last year. Doss was a rookie last year. Lets see what happens.[/QUOTE]

What about what you just said has anythign to do with how he played in theNFL other than the fact he was on the Colts. I wanted the Redskins to draft Doss over Jacobs at the time but im glad we didnt.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]We could have Doss and Sean Taylor both. We could have been set at the safety position for many years. Plus Doss is making less than what we are paying Matt Bowen. We would have saved money on the Salary cap as well as upgrading the safety position.[/QUOTE]

Rest assured you wouldn't be tooting Doss's horn if he played for us last year, with Edward's running the D, we would be yelling bust right now. It's over and done with, and I think thing's are going to work out for the best.

If we took Doss last year chances are we wouldn't have taken Taylor this year because safety wouldn't have been as much of a need position.

I think what bothered me about taking Jacobs last year was that we were already set at WR -- Coles, Gardner, McCants, Patrick Johnson, and a project who only got pushed back further in Cliff Russell.

Meanwhile, we ignored need positions (big surprise) -- like D-line and safety to get yet another Gator wideout.

So yes, I would rather have seen us select Mike Doss last year or any other D-lineman. Say what you will about what we'd have done this year with Sean Taylor. The jury was [B]and is [/B] still out on Iffy Ohalete if you ask me. And Bowen was a complete bozo and was a career backup as somebody else already alluded to. If he was half of what we all expected when he was signed, and when he laid that big hit on Trung in camp, then Green Bay would never have let him go. But I'll give Bowen another chance. Maybe he'll thrive in a 'grown up' defensive scheme now, along with the fact that he'll be playing the role he was meant to play as strong safety.

I could be wrong, but I will hereby make a prediction that Taylor Jacobs will join Reidel Anthony and Jaquez Green as the latest failed experiment as Florida wide receivers. If for no other reason that he will be way down the depth chart behind Coles, Gardner and McCants. Not to mention all the T-ends and H-backs that will be active on gameday. In fact, if you go back and look at the stats for Gibbs' past offenses, you'll find that fourth wide receivers rarely get a chance to contribute. Just look at the catches for guys like Stephen Hobbs, Joe Howard-Johnson, Walter Stanley and Desmond Howard. They are practically nowhere to be found.

The only way Jacobs could get even a chance to shine will be if he steps in for someone who gets injured. And with all due respect to Jacobs, I sincerely hope he never gets that chance.

The receiver list last year was full, but not with talent. We knew we had Gardner and Coles. But McCants was proven at that point. Russell, like Taylor now was coming off injury and all anyone knew he had was speed, which might have lost a step with the injury. Johnson, also know for his speed, and more importantly was known for a career of injuries. So we had a lot of receivers but not really solid depth, a lot of Spurrier hopefulls and projects. McCants ended up doing great for us. And apparently Jacobs has looked steller in camp. We have the potential to form another Posse. Dont expect to see many sets with more than three receivers, my guess is Jacobs wins the number 3 spot, but McCants always goes in the game in the redzone.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]The receiver list last year was full, but not with talent. We knew we had Gardner and Coles. But McCants was proven at that point. Russell, like Taylor now was coming off injury and all anyone knew he had was speed, which might have lost a step with the injury. Johnson, also know for his speed, and more importantly was known for a career of injuries. So we had a lot of receivers but not really solid depth, a lot of Spurrier hopefulls and projects. McCants ended up doing great for us. And apparently Jacobs has looked steller in camp. We have the potential to form another Posse. Dont expect to see many sets with more than three receivers, my guess is Jacobs wins the number 3 spot, but McCants always goes in the game in the redzone.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but still ... with those five guys, at some point you've got to make do with what you've got. Especially with what we were lacking elsewhere. No other front office or coaching staff would look at the WR lineup at that point and say, "hmmm, something's still missing. Let's add a [I]sixth[/I] wideout." Not only that, we have to look at the number of games Jacobs was even listed as active while healthy. You can't activate six wideouts per game. That alone says it was a needless pick.

By the way, McCants vs. Jacobs for the #3 spot should be an interesting duel. But there's no way I give the nod to Jacobs over McCants right now. McCants has proven too much for the coaches to demote him behind Jacobs.

We probably shouldnt have added a 6th receiver, im not even sure if he was a 6th receiver at the time. I wouldnt doubt if he was a 7th or 8th at that point in the offseason. I dont think he was a waste of a pick, talent wise he was a steal at that point in the draft, but drafting the best available doesnt have anythign to do with filling your needs. Nothing we can do about it now, im glad we sucked last year and that we have Taylor now though.

Seems to me that the Skins have overstocked in several positions (WR and RB) at the expense of adding help where it was needed (DL and OL)... over the past recent years. To me, the jury is still out on many of these young guys like Russell and Jacobs because they got hurt and didn't play much. From what I remember though is Jacobs looking pretty impressive in one of the preseason games last year.

The Wash Post has rumored a couple of times that the Skins were going to trade Gardner... hasn't happened yet so who knows where they got that inside info. But it seems to me that the Skins should have some trade material at both WR and RB.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Yeah, but still ... with those five guys, at some point you've got to make do with what you've got. Especially with what we were lacking elsewhere. No other front office or coaching staff would look at the WR lineup at that point and say, "hmmm, something's still missing. Let's add a [I]sixth[/I] wideout." Not only that, we have to look at the number of games Jacobs was even listed as active while healthy. You can't activate six wideouts per game. That alone says it was a needless pick.

By the way, McCants vs. Jacobs for the #3 spot should be an interesting duel. But there's no way I give the nod to Jacobs over McCants right now. McCants has proven too much for the coaches to demote him behind Jacobs.[/QUOTE]

I am not giving up on jacob's beating out Gardner for the #2 spot.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]What about what you just said has anythign to do with how he played in theNFL other than the fact he was on the Colts. I wanted the Redskins to draft Doss over Jacobs at the time but im glad we didnt.[/QUOTE]

So your point is Jacobs played so much and so well in the NFL last year.?.?.?
Mike Doss started as a rookie (IN THE NFL) on a team that made it to the playoffs and got one game from the Superbowl. SS Doss (a rookie) had 101 tackles, 64 of them solo tackles. BY comparison our SS Ifeanyi Ohalete (a 2 year veteran) had 78 tackles, only 46 solo. Matt Bowen (a 4 year veteran) had 94 tackles.

Doss had a better year stats-wise than our safety's and his team made the playoffs. If Doss looked bad at times, it was because he was a rookie, getting used to the speed in the NFL.
Your justification that you are glad we have Jacobs over Doss... is Doss has done very little in the NFL. With that logic, what has Jacobs done?
I am glad we drafted a guy that looks like a probowler in non-contact practices, but come game time is on the sideline licking his wounds.
Fair or not, he did not play last year.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]If we took Doss last year chances are we wouldn't have taken Taylor this year because safety wouldn't have been as much of a need position.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly right Matty. But I guess the question is can we then assume the Skins would have taken KW II this year and then we'd have to ask who would we be better with, Doss and Winslow or Taylor and Jacobs?

Theres no saying what would have happened had we taken Doos last year, our record could have been a lot different had we not given up as many big plays when Smoot was out. Either way we've got Jacobs and Taylor now, and both are promising young playess. All we can hope for is that neither gets injured this year.